Once again, there is a reason (or in this case multiple reasons) why GM products have the reputation they have. There’s a reason why so many people refuse to buy their products these days.

Large coupes just aren’t the “thing” to own anymore. Most people have moved onto SUV’s. People talked about this in the early 90’s, when most of these vehicles as well as station wagons were disappearing. The Camaro and Firebird were never really good cars after the Pony Car Era. They didn’t drive well, bombed with resale, only the top models were well sought after, cheap interiors and engineering. They didn’t drive sharp aside from a few of the higher end performance models. I love the way the outgoing Firebird looked, it’s definitely one of the coolest looking American cars to come out in the past 10 years.

And the G bodies had the same case. Not sharp to drive, even the current Monte Carlo is in my opinion good looking, but soft to drive, front wheel drive and a few other things. Even if they moved it to RWD, I’m not so sure…

The B-bodies though… Ah, the B-bodies. This may surprise some of you, but the fastest car I’ve ever driven was a Chevrolet Caprice V-8, with the police package. Was a little bit soft, but it handled ridiculously well, had huge amounts of power, and surprisingly got pretty good fuel economy! I think my mouth dropped when my friend, who had owned the vehicle, told me that he averaged just around 25 miles to the gallon… and not on a light pedal either. But everything else on that platform- the Roadmaster and Deville- was just overkill. The Roadmaster was way too soft, and the Deville just wasn’t refined enough to be a luxury vehicle.
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See, it’s strange, but the beautiful thing about American cars were they never ironed out every crease, detail and part on their cars. They were just candid, you saw what they were, while the rest of the worlds vehicles were down in the drain in the 50’s to 70’s. They were trying to be something they weren’t. I think that’s where The Big Three went wrong. When they started trying to make their performance coupes more high tech. When they tried to reverse everything the American auto industry was about.

I know how different type of cars are build, the pattern failures found in every car, etc. And I know what types of cars *I* would like not own, not based on some magazine or what’s in my neighbor’s driveway, but actual experience of dealing with every manufacturer’s design and engineering UNDER the pretty sheet metal.

For starters, I would NOT own a car with a timing BELT. There goes every Japanese car except Nissan. What about the engines found in the Pontiac G6 and most other GM cars? Yup.. they have a timing CHAIN.

The timing CHAIN in my 1981 Olds lasted 28 years and 150,000 miles until I changed it as regular maintenance because even chains stretch a little over time and throw off the cam timing slightly…. however it’s very unusual for one to break and cause fatal engine damage, as happens on Hondas and Toyotas.

/sarcasm off

As DB9 pointed out, the G6 is a PRIME example of why GM is in the mess that they are in.

You’ve hit it right on the head!!! If I was on the senate panel I would be force feeding Wagoner et al., words similar to your statement.

They – and their former colleagues and bosses – have run these businesses as if they were toilet paper factories. few were true Car people or engineers for that matter. At least, Ford’s Mullaly has experience running a company that lives or dies by its design and engineering. The others, well it has all been said and the past 20-30yrs to apparent. However, the big 3 should never have had to bear the benefit burdens that the UAW has extracted from them.

However, does not change the fact that Honda and Toyota are the blandest boring appliances on the road. Funnier still, the big three basically ceded the market to them. Anyone still remember the manual choke on the earl 80’s civics and accord:-))) Haysus now they are kings of the road:-))) TDF (Too Damn Funny)

DB9

Heres a fact about Japanese “big 3″ cars: they’re built so cheap they don’t even have an automatic spring belt tensioner. Something that most American and German cars has had since the 80s. Why? because a wormscrew and a bolt is much cheaper. They’re cheap cars. Cheap. End of story. A wormscrew manual “tensioner” is equivelant to a rotary dial telephone today. That’s just one example… or how about the cheap screws that the heads easily twist off they used to hold down distributor caps until they JUST RECENTLY went to distributorless ignition… again something most American cars has had since the 80s. And why can’t Honda build an automatic transmission shifter that locks at Overdrive like EVERY other manufacturer instead of easily slipping right past into ‘D3′.

I could go on and on but it will fall on deaf ears. People will believe what they want to believe despite fact.

Anyone hear making negative comments doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The GM 4 cylinder “ECOTEC” engine is superior to anything from the japanese, and the G6 is a solid competitor to the Accord, Camry, etc.

Pontiac G6 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic (S6), Regular 22 city 33 hwy
Honda Accord 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular 21 city 30 hwy
Toyota Camry 4 cyl, 2.4 L, Automatic 5-spd, Regular 21 city 31 hwy

The reason it sells is because it’s CHEAP. It’s cheaper than foreign cars brand new because of large rebates and other incentives. As a used car, the G6’s re-sale value is laughable compared to Accord/Camry/etc. There are a lot of people in the market for cheap cars, especially with today’s market. Some people don’t care or don’t understand quality when they purchase a vehicle. Those types of people are more concerned about price.

I grew up in a GM family but I saw the light in 2005 when I purchased a Mazda3 and then again in 2007 when I purchased a Toyota Tacoma. I won’t go back to a GM (or any other domestic) anytime soon.

Denial is the first step to recovery sj79. Once you’re able to come to grips with the fact that the G6 is a pile of crap, you’ll be better off. Good luck with your road to recovery!

I would appreciate it if I could have an explanation, including these “1/2″ years.

Thanks

You are correct, I haven’t rent G8 and it drives well(I did test drive one). Considering that it is Australian car there is no reason to pound your own chest (I assume that you either sell Pontiac or work for GM).

I’m not hip on the downturn on what was PONTIAC’s comeback. GM’s poor management and worse business models, favoring Chevy , Cadillac, and GMC more than any other division has led to a very dilute series of line ups.

With plenty of opportunities and reasons to do things right and right away, GM has continually screwed up on important products and never followed through on Division mission declarations.

The G6 was supposed to become an Alpha Platform car but instead is going to be held over until 2013. The G8 was supposed to get a coupe version but now we hear that GM will not renew the G8 after 2013, that might change but GM has always opted to kill off good stuff than find way to make it work.

The complaints I have have been voiced by other on this thread in this forum alone. GM killed the Fiero, which with the OLDS Quad 4 motor was better than a C4 CORVETTE instead of making a better CORVETTE. GM killed the F-bodies, the Camaro and Firebird twins, without a real replacement. In Fact GM never let on they were going to make a replacement for years, then they took years to roll out a new car, just as GM is in the worst trouble possible. They Kill ed the B-bodies, everyone favorite Caprice Police car, Impala SS (Most Bad @$$ muscle Car GM ever made), Buick Roadmaster and Cadillac DeVille, against without a worthy successor. The G-bodies, THe Monte Carlo (the one we wanted when we were kids), Olds Cutlass supreme, Buick Regal/GNX, and so on…

This Company needs NEW management that isn’t going to play stupid games to satisfy their own egos. I would wager that the Board of Directors is going to opt to Oust Wagoner for someone with some love for the company and CARS and a vision for it’s future that includes all its divisions. These boring old guys don’t even look like they are really excited about their company’s products.

I mean I would have been jumping on furniture like Tom Cruise “pretending” to be in love with Katie Holmes (Whatever I’m no star watcher) for the VOLT. I would have been going crazy to bring the Kappa Cars front and center for tuners and compact car racing, Heck! I would have said build me a new Cobalt (Don’t cal it that) off the Kappa. Half the Concepts GM rolled out over the last 10 years like the Chevy SS and Ultra WTCC would have made production. Who needs bob Lutz to push these things if you have Execs that really want this stuff because they love it and it cool.

The Reason Why DETROIT is in such a bind is because their is not love for the American car just the money the job brings. If you love your work the money is secondary. These guys DO NOT LOVE THEIR WORK and it shows!