Kinda lame?

First off, the Pontiac G8 ST is the most appropriate name for this vehicle.

That said, talk about the wrong product at the wrong time! This will be a case custody in business school.

i dont see how, a G8 based v6 pickup will be much more efficient than a silverado while offering close to the same utility (the old one had a 7′x5′ bed)

How in the world could this be the “wrong time” for this kind of product?

The entire reason why the El Camino (and others like it) were popular at all was because of the gas crises of the 70s. If gas were cheap people would just buy a real truck.

If not right now what time would be good for it?

Personally I don’t know if ANY time is a good time for such a vehicle. But if ever there was a time that the business case would have a chance in hell it’s when gas prices are high.

If they made this…ST have equivalent MPG and a large enough gas tank to compete with compact cars that compete with the G6+ model sizes, then this might survive. If, however, the MPG is only comparable to actual trucks, then this might be a car thats dead on arrival…

Or they could have just taken the stupid Pontiac snout off, took the pointless slits off the hood, put on a malibu grill, and called it a “El Camino.”

So, will it be sporty since it has the G8 name, have a V8 in it since it has the 8 in the name, and/or be a pickup car, not really a truck?

The more things change the more things stay the same.

The G8 ST is a Holden Commodore Ute, so it’s more of a “pickup car” than a “truck”. And yes, they are considered sporty here in Australia, think G8 coupe-thingy of sorts.

I hope this will be priced below the sedan and will come in all the colors offered in Australia. I want one in metallic green.

For the US, wrong car, wrong time. With crunches to gas and economy, there aren’t too many who can afford a “sport” pickup truck. If they absolutely need hauling ability, they’ll buy a real pickup. If they can afford a toy, there are better choices out there. They should have brought over the sport wagon instead; better ability to market here.

Yeah i hope you get the sportwagon over there, reviewers here in oz are saying its a better drive than the sedan.

The problem with the G8 is that GM is marketing it all wrong, they keep making it sound like its some gas guzzling muscle car, which the V8 version might be (even though it does get pretty respectable MPG) meanwhile they never mention the 260 horsepower V6 version which is plently of power and excellent gas milage, I feel that this could be GM’s best competior against the Ho-hum camry and accords of the world….if it was only advertised more.

as far as this truck goes, its a stupid idea…a freaking Co 4 door G8 offers more praticully then this thing…the G8 pick up truck is rear wheel drive, low to the ground, has only 2 seats…its not like your goin to be able to put anything more then a couple pieces of plywood in the back…hell a corvette with its huge hatch is just as pracitcle.

oh and another thing…why not a nice 2 door version of the sedan instead?

Pretty lame. And poor timing.
Chevy should spin this platform off and offer the El Camino
Or don’t do the truck!
DrFill

It would not suprise me either way. I could see this flop like the GTO but for different reasons, mainly cost because I think the target buyer has to be 16-25 year old males. But I could see it becoming popular in the US (coastal so cal, and rednecks in SE US), they are huge w/Aussies.

This thing is U-G-L-Y. It IS the wrong car at the wrong time, for a lot of the same reasons that people aren’t buying pickups anymore. Why would anybody buy a Pontiac pickup truck (or pickup car, whatever tag you want to put on this thing). The G8 is a nice enough car on its own. Why ruin the G8 image with what amounts to a pickup? Have you guys seen pictures of this? Have you been to the website? I know a lot of you have. Look, rumors are out that the STS/DTS is going to be killed (too big, rear wheel drive, blah, blah, blah). But they are going to produce this? As I’ve written in other posts, I am a GM fan. But this is getting tired, and painful. I hope the GM braintrusts are reading this…

Just offer at least one engine choice that get’s good fuel economy for a car, don’t overprice it and I think it will sell.

“How in the world could this be the “wrong time” for this kind of product?

The entire reason why the El Camino (and others like it) were popular at all was because of the gas crises of the 70s. If gas were cheap people would just buy a real truck.

If not right now what time would be good for it?

Personally I don’t know if ANY time is a good time for such a vehicle. But if ever there was a time that the business case would have a chance in hell it’s when gas prices are high.
Comment by SigmaHyperion”

SigmaHyperion, go back and read your automotive history books.

The El Camino first hit the showroom floor in 1959 as a styling exercise and competition for Ford’s El Ranchero pickup truck. It remained with the lineup until 1987, when GM killed off the G-body line in favor of the more popular FWD vehicles being produced.

It had NOTHING to do with fuel economy. It had EVERYTHING to do with styling and image.

THIS piece of junk needs to find its way to the crusher and then melted down for use in better vehicles like the upcoming Camaro.

A throwback to the past? How about a worthy successor to the LUV instead of the incompetent piece of junk called the Canyon or Colorado? And certainly not this thing.

You want a nice, efficient truck that handled well and looks decent Toyota has already made a pretty good example: The X-Runner. You don’t need a car-based truck just to have good handling. Now, mind you, *I* wouldn’t want a Toyota, but they set a good example of a truck that handles pretty well when they built the X-runner.

This will flop like the GTO did.

This would have been a nice vehicle 5 years ago. But now it’s too late to the party. The G8s are just sitting on the lot b/c noone wants the V8… and this GTO-with-a-bed will do much the same.

I think the wagon would have done better than this thing will do but I have never been much of a fan of “trars”. Of course with North America’s phobia when it comes to wagons it would more than likely not do too well either.

It does look kinda cool. Useless as tits on a bull, but cool nonetheless. How much of a market is there for that?

I proposed “G8 Sprint”, because that’s what GMC’s 1973-77 version of the El Camino was called.

G8 ST? How stupid.

Here’s hoping this Aussie creation will at least achieve moderate success across the pond in Nth America.
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Actually Johnny… I imagine it would be as useful as any other light truck… except it handles much better and is a lot faster. If it weren’t for these ludicrous gas prices I’d actually be interested. Enought hustle for the street and strip… and enough room out back to make the occasional trip to Lowes or Home Depot. Not to mention having a truck is probably the easiest way to get free beer I know of. Down south here when someone moves and doesn’t have a truck… beer is always the currency of preference.

RaineMan: that’s all the enlightenment I need!

Ozyran, I know full well when and how long the El Camino was produced. I didn’t say that the El Camino was created for the gas crises of the 70s, I said it was made popular during that time. You see, I also know full well HOW MANY were produced in each of those years it was produced, and production during the gas crises was DOUBLE that of the years before and afterwards.
Prior to the gas crises, GM sold about 30-40,000 El Caminos (and its various incarnations) a year. During the gas crises that number quickly rose to 60-70,000. And immediately afterwards, as gas prices plummeted, El Camino production also plummeted, going from about 70,000 to about 20,000 in just 3 years.

Like everybodies said, its the wrong market. GM already tried to market the SSR, and that was a total failure. It wasn’t that much of a performance car in the first place, but with that aside, it was in the same general market as this.

I think GM realizes this though. That’s why they are only importing about 12,000 what, a year?

Personally, I can see a ute doing very well though, especially in the current conditions. I think your all wrong, a ute about this size with a good four cylinder could do very well, average 25 miles to the gallon, and such a large bed. And really, despite the V-8 we might be surprised to see this do well.

On a brighter side… maybe this would get some of the rednecks around here out of their humongous Silverados and F-150s and into something that is a bit more correctly sized.

jayjc,
The G8 ST might be more successful than the SSR. For one, it doesn’t weigh as much as the moon, which the SSR did. Two, it wasn’t saddled with the 5.3L V8 and only an auto transmission at first. Three, it isn’t a convertible (much less a retractable hardtop), which means it isn’t as costly to build and complex. Four, its styling is less polarizing. Five, its pickup bed is more functional because it isn’t covered and upholstered. Six, it’s doubtless going to be much, much cheaper than the SSR was. Seven, it’s got V6 and V8 options, so people don’t have to have all-out performance if they don’t want it.
Will it be successful? Moderately at best. Will it do better than the SSR. Probably.

@ SigmaHyperion

Ozyran is absolutely correct. You appear to have no understanding of the automobile market of the 1970s. The vast majority of pickup trucks then and before were two-wheel drive single-seater work trucks. Extended cabs did not exist. Crew cabs were confined largely to the job of hauling work crews to job sites. Four-wheel drive trucks were purchased only by people who needed to drive them off-road–and I don’t mean the beach. For the most part, they were purchased by men in rural areas.

It was not until much later that pickup trucks became cool. The death of the large rear-wheel drive sedan motivated suburbanites to replace them with four-door six-passenger pickup trucks. As the real truck replaced the large sedan in the suburban driveway, the El Camino died. Ford’s Ranchero had died the a decade earlier.

There’s almost a million of these things (along with their Ford car-trucklet counterpart) in Australia. Their average weight is 4,000lbs as compared to a 7,000 lb American pickup. Think of all the gas Aussies have NOT BURNT, just by driving 3 BILLION lbs less of metal annually, over the last 40 years. That’s nothing to scoff at. And they carry almost as much as American pickups do, save those rare instances when you actually see a pickup do some serious hauling.

If we in the US had used these for 40 years instead of our 50 million pickups on the road every year- we’re talking about several BILLION TONS of oil saved. We wouldn’t have had to invade Iraq and murder 1.2 million Iraqis for their oil.

Actually, Richard, your characterization of the truck market in the ’70s is off by about a decade.

While extended-cab pickups started appearing toward the end of the ’70s, it is interesting to note that truck/SUV sales exploded in the 1970s. Jeep sold 30,000 vehicles in 1970. By ‘79, they were selling 230,000.

The ’70s was the first decade of the “active lifestyle youth” as a marketing segment. That’s why trucks and SUVs (hell, even station wagons and vans) got all sorts of sporty packages in the ’70s. Take the Jeep J10 Honcho, for instance.

The only thing that makes it seem like the SUV craze started in the late ’80s was the ‘79-80 energy crisis/recession. Trucks were selling out to the bare walls until then, which is what prompted AMC, Audi, and Subaru to make the first “crossovers”, the AWD AMC Eagles, Audi Quattros, and Subaru 1600s. The energy crisis abated their growth until gas prices came back down in the mid-’80s.

y ASK 4 SUB,MISSIONS if U won’t use any of them>

I’
m not usre “G8 ST” was popoular at all.

El Camino was a good name. I don’t no Y a pontiac can’t have it, chevy us mnot bringing it back. Duz any1 do malibu conversions?

not lame!
yes, MPG will ink or wswim this vehicle.

Th Holden Commodore Ute is GR8

I want one in hot pink. Maybe two-toned with orancge

If they can afford a toy, there R better choices out there, but do those ecvaq what the el camino edoes/

They should bring the sport wagon to america. and that epsilon II spourt tourer.

, it’s not a stupid idea

this is not a piece o’ junk

Toyota isn’t an option 4 any1 w/ smarts
the SSR was cool.

^ why do I think “ktulu”’s actual screen name is something completely different, but he just doesn’t know how to spell it?

probably because all 18,000 submissions were Chevrolet El Camino

ozyran: the LUV was a piece of crap

seriously bro you have no idea what your talking about… the LUV better than the Colorado?????? Te LUV was hardly more than a tin can on wheels. Did’nt even have a rear bumper!

To me, the entire Pontiac brand is a waste of marketing dollars and resources for GM in its current state. Why spend money to support a division that targets the same affordable portion of the market as Chevrolet? Pontiac really doesn’t have a product that couldn’t be sold just as successfully under another GM division (mostly Chevrolet).

For example, would the Pontiac G8 ST do any better or worse in the market if it was badged as a Chevy El Camino instead? Probably not. In fact, it might sell better given the El Camino’s somewhat iconic status with many Americans. The G8 would have made a great Impala flagship sedan for Chevrolet and probably would have sold better given Chevrolet’s larger dealer network and marketing budget (It would also have prevented the current overlap situation between the 2008 Malibu and current FWD W-body Impala in Chevy’s lineup; the W-body Impala could have been relegated to fleet sales as the “Impala Classic”). The Vibe would sell just as well if it were badged as a Chevy. The G5, Torrent, and Canadian G3/Wave are just rebadged Chevy clone products that could be discontinued and no one would really notice. The G6 sedan is overshadowed by the Malibu and Aura. The G6 coupe would have made a nice Chevy Monte Carlo (much better than the bloated and disfigured last gen W-body version). The G6 convertible could be replaced by a “TwinTop” coupe version of the Insignia if GM was smart enough to develop one and offer it in the U.S. The Sky overlaps and outsells the Solstice; wouldn’t a luxury retractable hardtop roadster be a better way to utilize this platform as well as give Cadillac a more affordable and fuel efficient alternative to the XLR?

I appreciate Pontiac’s history and people’s fond memories of its past. I know many people would be upset if the division were discontinued, but it really doesn’t make sound business sense for GM to continue to support it. Chevy serves the same purpose as Pontiac (straddling the affordable and performance segments) and does it much more effectively than Pontiac. It seems like GM could more efficiently cover this portion of the market by focusing the corporation’s limited resources on providing the best products and marketing to support the corporation’s high profile (and global) volume division (Chevrolet).

Overall, I think GM has an effective weapon in its arsenal to target import customers and gain back some market share without overlapping or competing directly with Chevrolet. That weapon is Opel. I don’t think Saturn or Pontiac can successfully do this because both brands have too much baggage in the market. Both Saturn and Pontiac should be folded into Opel. The brand’s next generation of products would be perfect vehicles to attract import shoppers (starting with the Insignia) and the brand could be molded and marketed to ensure that it appeals to this portion of the market.

mazdaman, your assessment of Pontiac is about spot-on, except for a few small details.

1) The Solstice handily outsells the Sky
2) The Vibe couldn’t go to Chevrolet because it’d compete with the HHR (so give it to Buick or Saturn)

I don’t think GM’s got the werewithal to truly transform the Pontiac brand. It is far too damaged by cars like the Firebird, Fiero, T1000, Sunbird/Sunfire, and Grand Am to get really any respect from anyone. And if Pontiac’s going to get the sales numbers GM’s expected in the past, it’s got to give the brand the same kinds of vehicles that Chevy sells.

I think the Saturn transformation will be far more effective given a little time. And the LAST thing GM needs is to ditch two known commodities for a division that hasn’t been here since 1979, didn’t have great connotations then, and would require tens of millions of dollars year after year, at first, in advertizing to educate buyers. Nah, Saturn’s already trying to do that with its Aura and Outlook.

You’re right, though. I do think Pontiac is the weakest link in the GM chain, and its cars either need to go to Chevrolet (G8, G6 coupe/convertible, Solstice), Saturn (Vibe), Buick (G8-based Caprice), or GMC (Torrent) and the division should be folded. At least one-third of Buick’s line is the hot-selling and quite fantastic Enclave. That’s SOMETHING to build on. Otherwise, continue to expect to see half-assed attempts at reviving the brand in the future, and a continue sales malaise for the division.

But to fold Pontiac and Saturn into Opel? Nah. That’ll create more problems than it solves.

^ 1. the average consumer has long forgot about the Fiero and T1000. The Firebird was a successful car that was GOOD, not damaged the brand. The Sunbird/Sunfire was successful as well… why they finally caved and gave Pontiac a version of the Cobalt here in the US. Grand Am was also a successful car, and continues to be under the G6 guise.

2. Caprice was a Chevrolet not a Buick.

Oh how bout the Korean LeMans… a Daewoo by any other name…. it was a real piece of sh|t. Now we have Aveo……

would i buy one ,no

Should’ve been called the El Diablo! Anyway, there will be huge rebates on these as they rot away on dealer’s lots!!!

inline6:
You’re absolutely right about the Solstice outselling the Sky. GM has moved 8113 units of the Solstice compared to 6676 units of the Sky year to date. Thanks for setting me straight on this issue.

I still think GM could more effectively target import oriented shoppers with Opel than Saturn. Opel has almost no market identity and possesses European origins that GM could exploit to appeal to a portion of the market who avoids domestic products like the plague. Under Opel, the products wouldn’t need to be diluted/decontented/altered from their Euro counterparts like they do when they need to fit in with Saturn’s limited MSRP range (despite GM’s misguided but well intended efforts, Saturn is still perceived as a value brand instead of an upscale Euro sourced brand). If GM wants to continue to spend money to support a brand that essentially cannibalizes Chevy’s sales, it will stick with Saturn. If GM wants to establish a brand that they could effectively utilize to attract import shoppers and increase market share, then they will go with Opel.

I also think the Vibe should be given to Chevy. As attractive as the HHR is, I don’t think its retro styling appeals to everyone. The Vibe could serve Chevy (the corporation’s high profile affordable brand) well as a more contemporary counterpart to the HHR. I don’t think it should be given to Saturn because it competes with the Astra. I also think it is too out of step with Buick’s image and status to be included in that division’s lineup.

Although we don’t totally agree, I did enjoy exchanging ideas and counterpoints with you. Ultimately, I hope GM can figure out how to streamline their U.S. operations and properly position their divisions to target different portions of the market.

olds307,
The Firebird HELPED Pontiac’s image? I’m sorry, but the Firebird was a poorly-built mulletmobile that exemplified Pontiac’s misguided love affair with plastic cladding and Fisher Price interiors by the end of its run. Though I’m willing to grant that since Chevy’s brining back the Camaro, the Firebird’s probably salvagible. And my greater point in bringing up the T1000 is that it was totally representative of the GM “grille and taillights rebadge” era. Just like the Parisienne of ‘83-86 was.
The Grand Am may have been successful, but toward the end of its life, it had awful resale values, and was being flogged off to rental fleets at a rate above 60% in order to keep the “success” alive. No one connotes “Grand Am” and “good car”. That’s why they changed the name to G6. But ask most non-car buffs out there if Pontiac still builds the Grand Am, and they’ll probably tell you ‘yes’, without knowing the G6 replaced it. And thanks for the LeMans reminder.
mazdaman,
You and I can agree to disagree on what would be easier, reinventing an existing brand, or killing it and introducing a new one.
But take a look at HHR sales vs. Vibe sales. The Vibe’s doing, at best doing 35-60k units a year. The HHR will hit 120k this year. The HHR’s styling is MUCH more successful than the PT’s ever was, and its buyer base is much younger. The Vibe wouldn’t compete with the Astra because the Astra is a hatchback line, while the Vibe is basically a small wagon. And the Vibe handily outsells the Astra anyway.

The Vibe may be alien to Buick’s market image, but the car could be redone inside and out to offer Buick a smaller, more fuel-efficient upscale car. With impending CAFE regs, Buick will need something this size. They’ll probably get younger buyers that way, too.

I enjoy the disocurse, too. And our hopes of GM finding success through better the streamlining and supporting of its divisions are the same. As far as I’m concerned, Pontiac can go, and so can Saturn. Opel (hell, if they started from scratch, it wouldn’t have to be the Opel name…it could be Vauxhall or Holden, if they wanted) can come over. I wouldn’t mind, personally.
I just think that there’d be blowback for GM killing two American-branded divisions, only to bring a Euro-branded division over to replace them. And it would take a lot more time and money to get people to shop it than a brand that’s already established and just needs to educate the buyer a little better as to the changes it’s made and what it now offers.

I personally think the PT Cruiser is much better looking than the HHR. To me, the HHR looks like a poorly-attempted ripoff of the PT Cruiser, with Chevy’s wonderful destruction of any notion of style thrown in for good measure.

But I think the biggest problem with the PT Cruiser is that it’s a Chrysler, which can carry the connotation as a bad car. The sad part is that Chrysler has been living up to their name rather well.