Comments on: Prius Cracks May Top-10 Sales Chart

By: ozyran

ozyran — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 03:43:49 +0000

A couple of other tidbits worth mentioning:
A standard oil change interval on the Prius is 6 months. The Prius also uses a meager 3.5 quarts of oil at every oil change.
Brake pads have a tendency to last well beyond the 100,000-mile mark.
There is no actual fluid transmission on the car whatsoever; it uses a pair of motor-generator sets to deliver power to the wheels, which are linked by a heavy-duty chain to the axle. Note, many motorcycle manufacturers chain-drive their bikes, and a chain is used to maintain timing in several engines to this day still. This is a much simpler setup.
As far as weight savings is concerned, the Prius is still under 3,000 lbs.
Did I mention that the M-G sets spool the engine up to 1,000 rpms before turning the ignition system on? Before fuel is delivered, all components in the engine are receiving lubrication. This makes for a much smoother – and mechanically better – startup. How many conventional cars do that?
Something else worth noting: when the engine shuts down, it burns off all fuel in the cylinders before turning off the ignition system.
Also, the engine shuts off when you’re stopped at a light or parked. This means that you can leave the car on, and “running”, but not use up any fuel while doing so. All you do when you’re ready to go is slip the car into ‘D’ and go.
Interior space: I’m 6 feet tall. When I’ve got the front seat adjusted to where I’m comfortable, I can sit behind it in the back seat and I still have plenty of room, without feeling cramped or worrying about racking my knees against the seat in front of me.
As for acceleration, I’ve outpaced my share of other compact cars on the highway when I ring up “Ahead Flank”. The torque is liquid and instantaneous – just floor it and the car picks up better than the 2003 Intrepid SE we traded for it.

By: ozyran

ozyran — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 01:36:36 +0000

I’m sorry, I should have stated in my post – that wasn’t my writing. But, whomever wrote it (I don’t know the source at this time) did their research and did it well.

By: c4Menace

c4Menace — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 21:21:08 +0000

There is nothing wrong with owning a pirus. Your saving yourself money with fuel and your car will live allot longer. Sure its probly a boring vehicle and sure it makes you look like a fruit cake, but why make a huge deal out of it?

I myself would rather get a nice GTI that gets about 25/31 or one of those future new BMW diesels. But that’s just me.

Also, if you consider the cost to dispose a pirus and the environmental effects to build a pirus you will see that it’s no different than any other vehicle out on the market. The only company to truly build an environmental assembly plant was Subaru.

By: murphy1

murphy1 — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 21:31:49 +0000

swamprat, i live in fla and do mostly highway driving. not sure how it does in hills, and going to the nc mnts soon so we’ll see. i can easily average 60 in the city for long stretches….

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 23:00:18 +0000

One last comment. If you want to save money, you don’t buy a new car at all. It doesn’t make financial sense to purchase a new car, hybrid or not. A base stick-shift compact that’s a couple years old and gets at least 30mpg is the best option there, and I did that when I was just out of college. But if you want to spend $20-$30K on a new car with new amenities, it’s hard to beat the Prius. Very hard. That’s why it’s in the top ten sellers, as this news article reports.

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 22:55:29 +0000

Bryce – you are correct, the exterior dimensions of the Cobalt and Prius are close. The Prius does have more interior space (5″ more rear legroom, most other dimension about an inch more). But the difference in price between the base Cobalt and base Prius is not the hybrid system. It’s the standard cruise control, power windows, passenger airbag (N/A even in the Cobalt’s $18.5K LTZ model), etc. Toyota built a mid-size (or compact) car with full accessories, something Detroit has a problem doing – they strip down their small cars, so Americans tend to think small cars are cheap, badly behaved, unsafe cars. So let’s say you could get a Cobalt LTZ with passenger airbag for $19K, and gas doesn’t go over $4/gal in the next 5 years (big gamble), the hybrid premium disappears in 5 years and you’re left with a car that gets 70% better mpg.

deantj – the entire hybrid system is under warranty by Toyota for 10 years. In addition, there’s no need to replace brake pads because regenerative braking saves the pads from wear and tear, engine only runs some fraction of the time so oil changes are every 5K miles (under European laws/industry its every 10K miles).

Of course, there’s the whole other issue of funding both sides of the war on terrorism – where do you think mid-east terrorists get their money? From selling camel dung? It’s not patriotic to waste gas.

By: deantj

deantj — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 20:05:41 +0000

^^ Good analysis but you’re assuming all variables equal. What if one of the hybrid drive subsystems goes after 4 years? HOw does that compare to a functional-equivalent problem on the Cobalt?

American cars are cheap to maintain because they’re unsophisticated and parts are cheap. They report more or less similar problem and recall frequencies as imports. I’ve heard horror stories involving busted iDrive systems and all those MB acronyms and stuff like that going past warranty. Financial nightmare.

By: bwilson4web

bwilson4web — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:45:00 +0000

Equivalent equipment Cobalt, $18,550, and Prius, $22,175 (list prices from the web pages adding to the Cobalt what the Prius has as standard equipment.) The list price difference is $3,625. Without considering the Prius $1,500 tax credit, at $3/gal, that would be 1,208 gallons. Given the Cobalt’s 26 MPG combined versus the Prius 46 MPG, it would take 72,000 miles or 58 months to reach parity, almost the same time as a car loan. Thereafter, the Prius continues to save and the owner is further and further ahead. The Chevy dealer’s problem is real car owners separate their capital expense, the purchase price, from the operational expense, the gasoline. For them, the only capital cost is can they afford it since they can’t pay for the car with gasoline money. BTW, my 2003 Prius, the first model sold in the USA, has gotten 52 MPG over the past 20 months.

By: Bryce

Bryce — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:28:38 +0000

nerfer:
As I stated before, the Prius is a compact car. If the Prius is a mid-size, then so is the Cobalt. And the main reason that people buy the Prius is for fuel efficiency. Because consumers are basing their decision around cost, it makes sense that those same consumers would calculate true cost of ownership. It’s just not so, however. And that’s my point. Needing (or really wanting and thinking that it’s necessary) good fuel economy is a direct correlation to expenditures. If gas sold for $.01/gallon, there would be NO reason to purchase a Prius. But consumers don’t think far enough ahead. And that’s why Toyota sells so many. It costs more to own that car. There are other factors of ownership (such as design and interior amenities) but the largest, by far, for the Prius is fuel economy. If it were any other car I would change my argument.

And, as an aside, if consumers kept their vehicles longer than 3.5 years, and longer then than the payoff times I keep quoting, the extra cost might make sense.

By the way, third-row seats in SUV’s, automatic transmissions, and four wheel drive all pay back in resale value.

By: deantj

deantj — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:11:32 +0000

Not the upcoming V8 H3.

By: nerfer

nerfer — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:54:59 +0000

A lot of hate and misinformation on the Prius by members here. Ozyran has it right regarding the nickel mine, and the Hummer (and all mid to large SUVs) use more energy dust-to-dust than the Prius or Honda Civic Hybrid, even by CNW’s own research (badly biased) if you look at his little-advertised 2006 update, not the widely touted 2005 report. The batteries are guaranteed for 100K miles, incidental reports are coming of cars going over 200K miles on original batteries (most aren’t old enough to have weakened yet – they don’t fail outright, just lower their performance characteristics slowly).
I average 50 mpg in my Prius, the real-world consumer average is about 47 mpg, as reported by various sites. It depends on your commute, weather and driving style so some people may experience lower numbers, while others get over 60 mpg. It is a mid-size (not compact) car with CVT, advanced controls (like auto-temperature control), optional leather, DVD navigation, smart-key system (just now being introduced to other non-hybrids). Don’t try to compare it with low-end cars like the Aveo (which gets 1/2 the mpg) or Cobalt (28 mpg).
As for paying for itself – how long will it take that hemi upgrade, or 6-changer CD system to pay for itself? People don’t buy cars to make money. They buy the best car that meets their needs with the money they are willing to spend. An option, like the hybrid system, that actually pays something back is otherwise unknown in the marketplace. If it pays for itself every 5 years (compared to an equivalent car), that will definitely help resale values, which are hard to come across partly because very few owners are selling them yet.
And it can out-accelerate any Hummer, a little sin I enjoy.

By: norby413

norby413 — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:05:50 +0000

They may be selling new ones, but I can assure you that the market for used hybrids is VERY soft.
The thought of all those complicated systems needing repair or the battery packs needing replacement is enough to scare off any sub 20grand buyers.
I’ve got a 05 Civic hybrid sitting on my lot that’ll take 22k to get rid of, while 4 cylinder 05’s can be had for 15. It’ll take DECADES to make up the difference in price with, at BEST, 15mpg better economy.

By: Bryce

Bryce — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:12:18 +0000

We’ve been using foriegn oil for decades. Why is it suddenly an issue now that gas mileage has become an issue? I think it was just another excuse of the ecotarians to stop using oil. Now that they’ve finally infused their politics into the country’s, people are latching on to that idea. It makes sense, but it’s only a push in the direction of eliminating oil use altogether. I like my gasoline cars. I don’t want to see a Duracell-powered Corvette one day.

global_lightning: “In 13 years the Toyota will still be on the road. The Cobalt will have rusted away after 8 years in the junkyard. Does your calculation include the cost of maintenance and towing?
Also, the Prius is comparable to the Chevy Malibu, not the Cobalt. At least compare apples to apples to be fair. If you really want to make the Prius look bad, Why not compare it to the Aveo???”
That’s such a baseless argument. Toyota building quality vehicles is a farce. It’s ‘KNOWN’ that Toyota builds quality because everyone and their mother say that it does. Word of mouth is very powerful but, in a many cases (like this one), it holds no merit. Talk to a Toyota service advisor about the record amount of recalls Toyota posted last year. And Cobalt is closer in competition than an Aveo. The Malibu is a mid-size, not compact. But, to make you happy: a Prius would take over 21 years to pay off compared to an Aveo with a manual transmission.

By the way, folks, at $10/gallon, a Prius still takes over four years to payoff.

By: RicardoHead

RicardoHead — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 11:50:48 +0000

Ratman said it best.

By: Ratman

Ratman — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 09:17:05 +0000

Look everyone knows that the Prius is gay just like the stupid iphone. Most homos love the Prius and most straight people hate them, period!

By: boulder_bum

boulder_bum — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:51:27 +0000

…

By: ozyran

ozyran — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:29:39 +0000

Hrmmm…interesting responses.
Yes – I am gullible. I was snookered into buying a car that delivers a consistently *low* 40 mpg…gosh, what terrible mileage!
I would be careful buying into the hype about the Hummer vs. the Prius. And btw, concerning the “destructive nickel mining practices”:
“Over the past year, there has been an explosion of stories raising questions about the real environmental cost of hybrids.
One of the most misleading ones, which has been spread by countless blogs over the past several weeks, and cited without verification by several sources that appear reputable, looks to have originated in a story last November in England’s Daily Mail, a right-leaning, British tabloid paper, which bore the gleefully spiteful title ‘Toyota factory turns landscape to arid wilderness.’ An editorial, published last month in a newspaper for a small state university on the East Coast, helped bring this misleading report a new life.
But it isn’t a Toyota factory at all. The automaker has, in fact, only been purchasing significant amounts of nickel from the Sudbury , Ontario , Inco mine for its batteries in recent years, while the environmental disaster the headline is referring to largely occurred more than thirty years ago.
And that ore is at the core of a semi-urban legend that leads to dumb headlines like “HUMMER Greener than Prius,” and others we’ve seen recently.
Toyota says that nickel has been mined from in Sudbury since the 1800s, and that “the large majority of the environmental damage from nickel mining in and around Sudbury was caused by mining practices that were abandoned decades ago.” Out of the Inco mine’s 174,800-ton output in 2004, Toyota purchased 1000 tons, just over a half-percent of its output. The plant’s emissions of sulfur dioxide are down 90 percent from 1970 levels, and it’s targeting a 97-percent reduction in those emissions by 2015, according to Toyota.
Of course, metal-hydride hybrid batteries aren’t the only use for nickel. One widespread use of nickel is for the chrome (chromium-nickel) plating that’s widely used in trim and wheels for luxury vehicles. And according to the Nickel Institute, which represents trade groups, manufacturers, and nickel producers, about two-thirds of all nickel mined goes toward stainless steel, which is of course widely used in vehicles – exhaust systems, for instance. Another significant portion goes toward engine alloys – pistons, rings, liners and the like; in general, the larger the engine, the more nickel it’s likely to have.”

On a BAD DAY I average 40 mpg in my Prius. I usually pull about 40 mpg highway and city combined. Cruising on the highway I’ve achieved 54 mpg in a first-gen Prius.

Also, something else to consider: A hybird such as the Prius moves us toward an EV, whilst the VW diesels move us away from EVs.

Concerning the recycling of the NiMH battery packs in the Prius, there is an extensive recycling program implemented by the Toyota Motor Corporation to ensure batteries are properly taken care of.

If we really want to pick on a company, let’s take a look at the corporation that singlehandedly recalled all it’s EVs from customers who were ready to buy them. What did they do with all these freeway-capable EVs? THEY CRUSHED THEM.

‘Nuff said.

By: global_lightning

global_lightning — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 03:23:29 +0000

@Bryce:
In 13 years the Toyota will still be on the road. The Cobalt will have rusted away after 8 years in the junkyard. Does your calculation include the cost of maintenance and towing?
Also, the Prius is comparable to the Chevy Malibu, not the Cobalt. At least compare apples to apples to be fair. If you really want to make the Prius look bad, Why not compare it to the Aveo???

By: STLbarcelona5

STLbarcelona5 — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:54:49 +0000

Everyone should read Cradle to Cradle. And THEN try to buy a Prius with a clear conscious.

By: swamprat

swamprat — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 00:32:45 +0000

Murphy1 – What type of driving do you do in your Prius? How fast do you drive on the highway? I have heard that hybrids don’t get the mileage advertised on either the city or the highway cycle and that they are no different than a Corolla when on the highway at 70-80 mph.

By: Gcoup�Joe

Gcoup�Joe — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:56:38 +0000

I not surprised, with the added cause of virtually every car company producing a hybrid of some sort. Consumers want a piece of the added hybrid benefits to themselves, I mean the car will eventually pay for itself…..

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:44:32 +0000

Random jerk:

I dind’t read anything in madcap’s post that supports your accusation.

I’m never buying another toyota, but I’ll admit that they have found a way to work it. And their commercials are better than most other companies’.

the next step, folks, is a diesel-electric hybrid. Old news for military subs, but they’ll be on the road soon.

True, europeans have better gas, and their taxes are in place to keep them from working themsealves to death.

Give me a hybrid Tahoe!

By: Adrio

Adrio — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:40:21 +0000

I don’t get all the Prius haters on this site. What are you trying to prove? That driving your dodge durango will be cheaper than a prius in 13 years? Who gives a damn.

The Prius is a nice little car and it does what its supposed to do. Theres a reason Priuses get such high customer satisfaction ratings. And its not marketing.

By: sunshine1810

sunshine1810 — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:36:44 +0000

People in the Unites States are foolish if they think 3 dollars a gallon is expensive. Its nearly 8 dollars a gallon where I live and I see very few prius’s here. The best engines are diesels. Period.

By: murphy1

murphy1 — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 23:22:33 +0000

i put 60,000 miles year on a vehicle, so it just made sense to get one. at 20,000 i have no complaints whatsoever. i have had 8 tanks of 50mpg+ and overall have averaged 48. as far as this car and hybrids being a fad, does anyone really think toyota and the others have peaked as far as advances go?? of course not!! so the next generation prius will be much more efficient meaning the numbers will get more boggling. this is NOT a fad. it is a car that works as advertised…

By: Madcapp

Madcapp — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:56:48 +0000

Hey, random jerk is a fan of mine.

By: Random Jerk

Random Jerk — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:55:34 +0000

Madcapp doesn’t just like German cars, he likes German politics circa 1933-1945 as well.

By: Madcapp

Madcapp — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:49:09 +0000

LP640 your’re truly stupid. You cannot compare fuel prices here to anywhere else. European Petrol is a higher octane low sulfur fuel that is used as a vehicle for all sorts of taxes in Europe to pay for things like national health care, that we do not have here. USA gasoline is lower octane and lower quality fuel.
The higher sulfur content of our lower grade product has damaged BMW engines here…do a google search on “BMW nikasil” if you’re not familiar with the issue.

So don’t come in here telling us we should be glad gasoline is only $3 a gallon in the USA…you’re the fool who misunderstands the issue. Plus, its our god given right as the one and only worldwide superpower to enjoy the lowest energy prices on the planet through whatever coercive military and political means we have at our disposal. And those are the facts my friend.

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 22:12:54 +0000

Indeed, jackdev73, indeed.

By: Random Jerk

Random Jerk — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:57:24 +0000

Nothing brings out the ignorant like mentioning the commercial success of the Prius.

By: lanapat7

lanapat7 — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:40:24 +0000

This shows the power of marketing.
People believe they are saving the planet by driving this thing. What about those batteries? Recycling?
What is the resale value on that thing once the fad is over?
Some people even believe that Toyota is an American company because they claim so in their commercials in US television. How dumb you need to be to believe that statement?

By: spud

spud — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:17:35 +0000

…and even we don’t want to but these pos!

By: spud

spud — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:17:01 +0000

Meant to add – In the UK at the moment it’s the equivalent of about $7.30 a gallon (That’s not a typo)

By: spud

spud — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:13:36 +0000

Crap on a stick… we dream of a “$3″ gallon over this side of the pond.

The thing that gets my goat is that people but these on Environmental grounds (Obviously not on economic grounds as Bryce has pointed out), and yet these stupid greenie do-gooders don’t realise that in its full life cycle (i.e. Constrction to disposal) these things are worse than a hummer, the greenies #1 evil.

UNBELIEVABLE!

By: davebo

davebo — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:02:39 +0000

Wishful thinking that gas will still be $3.15 a gallon in two years, let alone thirteen.