Calling DrFill! Is DrFill in the house? (hehe)

Hey ThunderChicken, nice call, man.

Go Ford!
I like to see an American car company on top of a program that is being done in America.

Proof that I know my countrymen better then my co-workers. They all thought the trend to “greener” compacts was going to kill the Audi Q7 before it really got started.

@Gmasaurur
I think the doctor is out to lunch. He went to go eat his words.

And here the media was going nuts saying compacts were the only thing people were going for. But hey, a modern pick-up gets better gas mileage than a midsized car did in the mid 1980s, right? It is still an improvement and the truck is cleaner if not too much more efficient.

If you look at the type of vehicles traded in it’s not wonder Escape is #1.

People are trading in their Ford Explorers for Escapes.

Trading in their CHerokees/Grand Cherokees for Patriots/Calibers.

Duhhh…

Audi RS5,

SUVs are still on the wane. But the Q7 and other luxury SUVs will never die as long as their are people who can afford them. Now if that number goes below a “profitability” quotient,then it’ll mean trouble.

Typical. The US Government can’t even complete a simple task such as counting vehicle models properly. And the Dems are insistant that big government is what we need to solve all our problems like some magic potion. Makes me want to puke.

^^you got it. How hard is it to tabulate by make and model?

^^ funny thing is, i would enjoy it if you did vomit from your over-active hatred of things beyond your control…the whole anti-government sarcastic “those people are idiots” mentality is so cliche that it comes across very amateurish…and after all, this is a car site…i repeat: a car site…the proper response to this post is, “wow, go ford!” not “this sucks, that sucks, those people are idiots, the world sucks, i’m going to go cut myself”…i mean seriously, stop being so gdamn emo!

Go big 3!! I have nothing against the other manufacturers I am just very happy to see ford on top of the list followed by my beloved chrysler group.

^lol. I hate it when people bring the government into the discussion on here. I especially hate it when people call General Motors Gov’t Motors. Quit complaining about the bailout already. The bankruptcy is done and over with. We should be saying way to go Ford and congrats to Americans for still purchasing trucks.

-iluvamcars

Thats good cause the ealier reports of tha list had me a lil worried about all those new toyota drivers that would have been messin wit traffic even more!

Tha big3 in tha lead is just an added bonus. Now they need to take dat cash n use it to make even cooler vehicles dan wat dere makin now. Overall, tha majority of models in the big3’s line-ups r nicely designed n pretty much cool. Chrysler has tha most catchin up to do!

For what it’s worth, my sister got a new Equinox through the program. As much as I respect the newer Ford products, no way would I get the Escape over the new (admittedly) Equinox.

The gov was using the other list because it made it look like people were flocking to small cars and the Prius. They knew exactly what they were doing but edmunds has exposed them by showing us REAL figures. Any car that only offers FWD (like the prius, corolla, camry, etc.) is automatically going to move to the top of the list if you count 2WD and 4WD separately. Hybrids are also counted as separate models so the Prius benefits while the Escape, Camry, fusion, etc. would suffer. The list the government is using has 6 of 10 spots going to domestics but the reality is 8 in 10 spots go domestic.

2 weeks ago my brother just bought a new Ford Escape hybrid. The main reasons are because most of the driving he and his wife do is in the city, they need the room for 2 kids and a small dog, and they got about an $8,000 saving with the employee pricing and other deals in effect. I should note that we live in Canada so he didn’t even get any extra from the c.a.r.s. rebate. That could be why the Escape is selling so well, that and the number of different models available……

For the teenagers in the room and those of you that are easily disturbed by anything political on a auto forum, GO FORD…. F*** Toyota!

Now for the grown ups in the audience who already knew this and for those of you who didnt… The automotive industry is a major part of our society, our economy, and ultimately have a major impact and vice-versa on,drum roll please… POLITICS. And since both the state of the economy and politics have had such a major impact on the auto industry lately, I think a little political comentary is warranted…

SoTXFord I wouldn’t mind civilized political commentary in the least, it’s the “my party’s better and smarter than yours” that I can do without.

The Escape was recently dethroned by the Vue as the best cute-ute ever, but Ford is being fitted for the crown.

Audi RS5: I can agree with that.

I can live without the ‘Go Someone’ and ‘F*** Someone Else’…… Isn’t that the same thing as ‘my party’s better than yours?’…..Domestic and Foreign are words that are losing meaning in the automotive industry, as location is more important than lineage……

Bosley
Domestic and Foreign are words that are losing meaning in the automotive industry, as location is more important than lineage

It would be but my biggest issue with Asian companies/countries(Japan South Korea) is the fact that they don’t allow the American manufacturers access to there market. North American Markets are open to them, they have only one limiting factor and that is consumer demand. The North American Auto companies are not allowed to manufacture in these countries and are limited to exporting 30000 cars annually to either country. That is kinda bogus, and in this global economy fair trade is a MUST or you can kiss the American lifestyle goodbye. Soon the middle class will be non existent unless trading practices are redefined.

Bubs Solo,

I admit that there is a bit of a disparity between what we (ie North America) imports and exports out of some Asian countries. More equitable trades relations is a key to developing a larger product base there. But how many Japanese people want a new Chrysler 300 or Escalade that wouldn’t have even fit in the streets? Vehicle design has to be partially responsible as well.

But my actual point was referring more to foreign companies producing vehicles (for whatever market) in North America, the domestic market, thereby partially supporting the local economy in a different way. If Toyota is producing the Sienna minivan in the US, which it is, does that make a domestic or import vehicle? I don’t know the answer, it might be both….

OMG, who cares. This is getting really old. All the cars are made in the US and putting US workers to work, so I really don’t care if it is Toyota or Ford.

Not quite all the cars on the US/North American market are made in the US/North America PerformanceGuy but I do agree that the dispute is getting old because no matter WHERE the car is built, Americans benefit from them.

Performance Guy – you should care you moron. Where it’s manufactured is the LEAST important aspect of intellectual property and economic predominance. Do you think the Apple iPhone is Chinese, since that’s where it’s made?

So long as companies keep MAKING cars in North America, I don’t care who owns the company or where they go (so long as it keeps me and others like me working). During plant shut-downs I can make almost a months wages in a week ’cause time is money to those people….

imagine a 250000 Escapes Malibus F150s ect made in the USA and exported to Japan… Would that be good for the USA or very good for the USA???? Open trade going both ways is what Congress should be working on..

Bubs Solo-

You want to export electroconvulsive therapy (ect) to Japan?!

p.s. Yeah yeah, I’m sure you meant “etc.” . . .

I find interesting is that for how many months we’ve been hearing that Chrysler didn’t have any small vehicles to offer, which was going to hurt them until Fiat got their cars here. Doesn’t seem to be with these numbers.

One other thing, with Chrysler’s bankruptcy, aren’t their vehicles made before a certain date making them not liable for anything? So how many of these new cars are people buying at their own risk. One might argue you do that anyway, but I think moreso in this case.

Just wondering out loud on the forum.

I’m being lazy and wonder out loud too as rpmfan did. Here in Germany most trade-ins went for “newer” model cars, not new cars, i.e. trade in the ‘93 Golf for a ‘04 Golf. Any possibilities the same is/was occuring in the US?

I thought the CARS rebate was for new vehicles only, so that wouldn’t help if it’s true. If so, there’s less incentive to buy used rather than new. But I’m not sure. So I’ll comment anyways.

Next week they’ll say a Yugo was #1
Isn’t the car business just wonderful?
Media is doing a bang-up job, too
DrFill

ok i guess people arent completely retarded.

Our stipulations were the trade in had to be 9years or older and the “new” car had to meet newest emission allowances as well as being bought from a dealer. Even a dealer’s “testdrive” model costs less then a new car since it’s considered used so people looked at where they could get the best moneytary deal rather than going out to buy that dream Mercedes that they’ve wanted for so long.

A4, yeah there does seem to be a sliding scale of ‘retardedness’ in the world these days, not just all or nothing….

RS5, I believe the idea of the CARS rebate was to help help ‘The Big 3′ sell new cars, not that they’re all Mercedes by what the top 10 list is telling us. Economy seems to be on the people’s mind when it comes to rebate-related purchases, partially because of the definition of the rebate I think, the new car must be over a certain mpg…….

All I know is that I traded a 98 Explorer for a new Escape.

We owned an 88 Bronco II 2.9L V6 140HP,
then a 98 Explorer 4.0L V6 160HP which was traded at 111,000 miles (no problems) for
a new 2009 I4 2.5L Escape 171HP @ 28mpg highway.

Who says technology isn’t advancing?

The gov’t is stupid and extremely wasteful. I don’t see that as a reason to not take their money!

Bosley, I’m happy to hear if CARS is actually selling new cars. It was just something I was wondering about when compared to our version over here.

Car_go, the problem is you aren’t taking their money, you’re taking your and our money. Would you really care how you spent Bosley’s money?

Bosly:

“But how many Japanese people want a new Chrysler 300 or Escalade that wouldn’t have even fit in the streets? Vehicle design has to be partially responsible as well.”

Dont be so naive. In Europe, Latin America and china GM and Ford manage to sell what locals want. This excuse about “vehicle type” is BS and does not explain why Japan has so few foreign cars sold on its soil. They simply DO NOT WANT significant foreign competition there and they have rules that prevent that. GM and Ford (and others) know how to tailor vehicles for other markets. Dont be silly and act like GM would go to Japan with H2s and Escalades. They don’t sell that stuff in Europe because it doesn’t fit the market and they could make vehicles that would sell in Japan if the opportunity was there. We keep hearing how smart the Japanese are but we ignore the fact that they feel its best to keep their home market exclusively for local automakers. Why haven’t we learned anything from that? In the US folks are quick to say “it doesnt matter where your car is built” and talk about how protectionism is bad but in Japan they don’t agree at all. YOu won’t find many imported cars in Japan and obviously they don’t agree that having foreign automakers making cars locally is something to encourage. They don’t even allow transplant operations there.

sj79, so in your eyes, 2 wrongs make a right? The sentence before the one you quoted said “I admit that there is a bit of a disparity between what we (ie North America) imports and exports out of some Asian countries. More equitable trades relations is a key to developing a larger product base there.” I was kididng about H2’s and Escalade’s…..

Should we be overly protectionist just because some Asian countries are. That’s certainly not in anyone’s best interest….. If the US did what other countries are doing it would make everyone equally stupid and everyone worse off……

Protectionism is not the way to get any economy back on its feet right now, or any time. Remember Smoot-Hawley during the Great Deperession?….. I guess not……. Here’s a link if you care:

http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12798595

Lionwithoutpride
if electroconvulsive therapy would level the playing field then I am all for it. After all ect (shock and awe)was exported to Iraq and it been great for both countries.

World Trade is basic econ… if everyone does the one job they are most efficient at, we produce more total goods, and the (world) economy expands. Think of it as the Assembly Line on steroids.

Bosley- Thanks for the link, I enjoyed that.

BTW- I wish they had a qualifier for membership on LL. It surprised me to see that the majority of comments to this article were actually intelligent posts. It is a nice change, and I suppose its due to the underlying subject matter of the article.

Armstealer,…..you’re welcome. I’m surprised someone took the time to read it if there’s no mention of cars in the article. (jk )

sj79,…..”We keep hearing how smart the Japanese are but we ignore the fact that they feel its best to keep their home market exclusively for local automakers. Why haven’t we learned anything from that? In the US folks are quick to say “it doesnt matter where your car is built” and talk about how protectionism is bad but in Japan they don’t agree at all. YOu won’t find many imported cars in Japan and obviously they don’t agree that having foreign automakers making cars locally is something to encourage.”

There’s the old saying that says “An eye for an eye, results in everyone being blind to the real problem…..”

Bosley there was a mention of cars in the article at the end, you need to reread it. sj79 H2’s and Escalades ARE sold here in Europe although I’m sure the real reason the sales aren’t all that high have only little to do with them not fitting on the roads (yes they are wider than many european roads) but more for high price vs. lacking luxury and the poor mileage they get. Now don’t rip me and come with the “Escalade is luxury pure”, reread my comment before you do that. It’s a combination of things and yes even the name carries a bit of the burden to poor sales numbers over here, although that is slowly changing towards the better.

C’mon, you want me to read it to the end?!?!…….. Ok, ok one use of the word ‘cars’, I stand corrected….

This much I do know, the CARS program requires the purchase of a new car.

I’m happy to see that CARS is not making the same mistake we did then rpmfan.

Well the question in my mind: how many of those Escapes are made in US vs. Mexico. Does anyone has statistics then point to/ Looks like bonanza for Mexican auto industry and their unions and consumers.

Looks like an opportunity for Toyota to kick the incentives up a couple thousand on the ugly Corolla or rental car fav Camry to retake the lead huh?? Thats the new Toyota. If you fog a mirror, you qualify for a new Toyota. Keep it going Ford…taking the high road. No bailout nation here. Escapes are not produced in Mexico for the US market. Some Focus’s are though.

The Escape is built in Kansas City. So Borat feels better about himself Kansas City is in Mexico. The Escape is a huge boon to the Mexican auto industry and their unions. Well at least the Kansas City Mexicans.

Bosley perhaps putting political/economic pressure on Japan and South Korea to open their economies up to the extent we have ours opened to them is what I was referring to. A radical example that should only be used as a last resort would be an extra surcharge of $50-$100 per vehicle sold in the USA going directly to the US automakers. Of course the first 30000 vehicles would be exempt of the surcharge because Japan allows 30000 US vehicles into their market annually.

The Escape while on the Most Purchased vehicle I think Ford should step up the ante and Bring over the Kuga to replace the Escape

The results are disparaging and disheartening.
People are trading in their clunkers for suvs and trucks? What a waste of money this CARS program is…

Bubs Solo, The kind of ‘pressure’ you’re suggesting to put on Japan and Korea specifically is the very definition of the protectionist mindset I’ve been talking about above. They aren’t going to react any more favourably to that than you are to the US products being exempt from that market. The word ’surcharge’ you use is in fact just another form of a tax. North America could try boycotting the electronics industry maybe. No Sony Playstations or Nintendo Wii’s, or reduce their oil deliveries, until they start selling our cars.

But my largest concern is that if the leaders of these Asian countries are so narrow minded to prohibit American cars that when we start doing the same thing, they’ll do something even worse for the global economy. They could start taxing our natural resources or exports in general, not just cars……

Fighting fire with fire doesn’t always work. As intricately woven as the global economy is, by raising an unfair trade agreement you not only upset the receipient (Japan/Korea) but also the countries that also deal with them (Western Europe/Asia/South America). Every country has a debt with another country in the world and limiting the means of one to repay that debt angers the one owed money to as well that will stem actions against you so they can reclaim their money from the debitor. In short, the US would cause Japan/Korea to impose stiffer taxes/regulations against US imports as well as Germany and France (for example) raising taxes and regulations against US imports to secure Japan/Korea’s trade which funds the oriental markets to repay their debt to them. You want a fairer trade agreement then you need to look towards other more diplomatic means of achieving them without trying heavy hands. Enough on economy and politics from me for now, good to see the US market getting positive results from the CARS program.

My Mom always used to say, “Just because your brother acting like a child, doesn’t mean you should start….”

Don’t get me wrong Bosley, some countries could use a butt spanking but not over something like a trade agreement.

How effective is the CARS program? Aren’t most of the people benefitting this program already those who were going to purchase a vehicle anyways regardless of this program? People still want an SUV it seems.

Bosley:

I never said protectionism was good. I am saying that the US is within its rights to make rules that encourage people to buy vehicles made in the US. Notice I never said foreign owned plants should be treated differently. The fact that we have allowed dozens of Japanese owned factories to be set up here means that we are already far ahead of Japan when it comes to encouraging global investment in our country. We cannot ever get to where they are because they NEVER allowed transplants in the first place. If they refuse to change their rules that all but exclude foreign competition then the US needs to make some changes to make exported cars from Japan less profitable. If that encourages them to build more plants in the US so be it. You are talking about trade wars and gloom and doom but I would love for you tell me what major US industry is dependent on Japan for export business. The US auto market means much more to Japan than any Japanese consumption of US goods means to the US economy. Considering we buy hundreds of billions in Japanese built cars a year I would say we have some leverage. The CARS bill would have been a place to start but environmentalists in congress were hell bent on making sure made in Japan hybrids would be helped by this legislation and thus efforts to limit it to NA built vehicles was stripped out. There is nothing unreasonable about using US stimulus funds for vehicles that actually use US made parts and are made at US factories. All of the Asian automakers have operations here and dozens of their vehicles would’ve been eligible for CARS with a built in NA provision. Why are we spending our money to subsidize imports from Japan? How many US workers make parts that go into Japanese build vehicles?

Bosley: My comment of “Go Ford, F Toyota” was made more satirically than anything since that is the only commentary that doesn’t seem to hurt someone’s feelings on this forum. That being said, I do believe that this a good win for Ford over Toyota.

I stated my case for the big three on here before and why I thought CARS should be restricted to their products so I won’t go into it again, however I don’t believe we should out right restrict foreign competition in the industry overall. Japan has some fantastic products to offer us, and yes our economies are INSANELY intertwined. Additionally, we have too much to gain outside of the auto industry to damage relations politically with each other just to sell a few more Calibers.

As for the whole American cars wouldn’t sell in Japan statement, as someone that lived there for three years and only moved back earlier this year, trust me, if vehicles like the Escalade were sold there, the rich would buy it. I saw too many young adults and teens, yes teens, driving Escalades and H2s that they had to specially import over there not to believe they would, and I was on the island of Kyushu where the roads are narrow even in the bigger cities. The market in the Tokyo area could easily support those vehicles just like they do BMW 5 and 7 series which DO sell there. The truth of the matter is there are a significant number of Japanese that are starved for anything different to drive and are just as impractical as we’re always told Americans are; they buy things they enjoy to drive over efficiency too…a Fairlady Z isn’t exactly a fuel sipper or a grocery getter.

@SoTXFord

Can’t say I’m surprised. Alot of rich families and teens over in different countries are willing to put the money down to buy American cars that most people think wouldn’t sell in those places. Just goes to show you that the new generation of Japanese people aren’t so nationalistic or horribly biased about their car purchases.

I’ve spent three weeks in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates just last year, and you wouldn’t believe just how many big American SUV’s are sold over in the Middle East. Because the majority of people in Dubai are all young and at least somewhat prosperous (and because gas is cheaper over there), a **** ton of Escalades and Hummers are being driven by a big number of people over there, alongside your typical sports cars as well. The same story also applies in Saudi Arabia, where many young teens over there also drive American cars.

Just goes to show you that rich people in many countries aren’t always nationalistic when it comes to car purchases.

I also lived in Japan and worked with locals who drove Fiats, European Fords, Opels, VW, Mercedes Benz, etc. There are numerous imported vehicles on Japanese roads. The fact is that American vehicles have very very little global appeal or presence. Japan does not target American vehicles to keep them out, they just do not sell there and the Americans have made little or no effort to get into that market, which is a tricky one, with lots of incentives for people to buy light and small displacement automobiles.

mitzo:

Its not that simple, GM/Ford sell lots of small cars with small engines in Europe. If Japan is so easy to penetrate why do the Japanese big 3 have 95% share? Toyota has about 45-50% share in the Japan. You don’t think the rules of engagement there are a factor? By comparison, VW only has about 20% share in Europe even though it’s based in Germany.