it did need more work.

It sucks that it going to take more time for the NSX to reach production for all those who would want the car. But I think its cool that they weren’t satisfied with what people were saying about the car and decided to try to improve it rather than just figuring it was good enough.

The front was ok, but that rear split/half/whatever windshield was really wierd and ugly IMHO. I’m glad they’re gonna give it another go cuz the old NSX is still a great looking car IMHO.

The ASC looked like a mashup between a Firebird, a Corvette, and a TSX. Hopefully the redesign will come up with something more exciting.

Looking back at the concept, I think the design is pretty solid. One of the commentors said a grill would help and I agree. I also think that putting it in a gunmetal grey didn’t help either. What about a nice red or blue?!?!

I don’t know why they ditched the HSC concept from a couple of years ago, at least that one actually resembled a newer version of the NSX. This concept wasn’t even mid engined…WTF. Part of the appeal of the original was that it offered exotic sports car performance characteristics in a daily driver at half the price. Going from mid-engined RWD to Front engined SH-AWD would have made the NSX just another over-priced GT. They need to go back to the drawing board and further develop the mid engined HSC concept and try to bring the price down to Nissan GT-R levels or it won’t sell very well. I don’t know why I even care so much…F Honda they have a history of either killing off the good sports cars (Integra Type-R,S2000) or just not bringing the good stuff over to begin with.

that car was ugly thank you for not messing up a fine car like the old nsx

I agree…Honda should go back and study their own HSC concept. The ASC was pure crap…something a first year design student could have come up with. In 1990. No soul, no stance, no complex or intriguing surface curves, no exquisite detailing, no unique identity of its own.

Come on Honda, you can do it…or you’re screwed.

yeah the HSC concept was so much better, the ASC looked pretty boring and odd to me – in a bad way. I wasnt wowed by it.

I dont think hondas screwed though… maybe you meant ford?

yeah the asc was too much like a vette or viper concept, they should try to keep the nsx m/r thats what most people liked about it anyways, a true m/r exotic at a fraction of the rest of the mr exotics. usually acura concepts look good, the asc was like some video game designer had a whack at it, almost rite but too strange.

the side profile looks like a g35 corvette combo.

yeah i thought the HSC concept made a logical NSX successor. it was gorgeous, ASC concept was very boring/lukewarm. not exotic enough, more of a fancy G35 luxury car. They just need to clean up the tail lights on the HSC.

Im tired of the news about what the new NSX will be (RWD/AWD/V8/V6/V10) i dont get why there is so much debate. to me this cars mission and identity is set in stone all along. Poor mans Ferarri, affordable exotic. If anything use as a platform to develop a new V8, keep the layout, maybe add SH-AWD if you must but keep it light and aluminum.

yeah i thought the HSC concept made a logical NSX successor. it was gorgeous, ASC concept was very boring/lukewarm. not exotic enough, more of a fancy G35 luxury car. They just need to clean up the tail lights on the HSC. Im tired of the news about what the new NSX will be (RWD/AWD/V8/V6/V10) i dont get why there is so much debate. to me this cars mission and identity is set in stone all along. Poor mans Ferarri, affordable exotic. If anything use as a platform to develop a new V8, keep the layout, maybe add SH-AWD if you must but keep it light and aluminum.

How much more are they going to push it back?

If you cross a F599 with the nose of Z06 youd have the same show car. Can anyone come up with anything different?

The thing in Road & track didn’t look all that bad but the GT-R is still gonna stomp it’s ass. Toyota can try to take the GT-R but I feel it won’t have much luck.

As gobot as it was, that concept looks better than most of the hi-performance **** coming out of europe these days. The Skyline still kicks the NSX’ ass, though.

I meant GT-R. Sorry

HSC was amazing.

I think they should build both.

HSC for the F430 market

ASC for the 599 market.

Ricardo we can still call the GT-R a Skyline, it’s not against the law or anything. Nissan will always be the best.

I hope they keep it mid-engined. Otherwise it shouldn’t be called the NSX

Sorry, but I can’t think of AWD as a true performance drivetrain. The rear wheels are all that matters.

I agree, the HSC kicked butt. I like the ASC okay, but I have two major problems with it:

1. I don’t like Acura’s general design language. Pointed front, stale (advanced) shape, etc.

2. It isn’t mid-engined.

I think it’s possible that Honda might be going after Corvette though. After the Z06’s success in the area of performance, I think it wouldn’t be a bad idea for them to keep it simple and then refine it more than the corvette. However, AWD pretty much dispells that theory.

PrimeGTP, the SH-AWD system used in the NSX is gonna be mostly RWD based, like the R8 and Lamborghinis.

I don’t think anyone should call it the “NSX” if it doesn’t come with a V6. Honda wouldn’t let go of a small engine hiding in a car that looked like a V12 screamer. Get a new name, NSX doesn’t carry any weight except for NSX lovers….no offence if you are one.

I thought the concept looked too futuristic, too much like a “concept-only” car, much like all the Mazda concepts.

I had a chance to see the HSC in the Tokyo show and wondered why they wouldn’t build them as a cheaper NSX. The styling alone will sell.

I still think the proportions/styling of the ASC would be better as a modern-day Prelude or S2000 successor, while the HSC was a logical successor to the NSX. In fact, the HSC still looks modern almost 4 years later!

the concept was ugly. boring yet busy at the same time

Get Real, are you an NSX owner? No offense to you but other than carrying on Honda’s engineering philosophies, I don’t see why the new NSX has to have a V6 in order to be called “NSX”. Honda needs more horsepower to compete with modern Ferraris and they like all-motor engines. They *will* add a few cylinders in order to do this.

For whatever it’s worth, Honda marketers have said in the past that they may not use the name “NSX” again regardless of what the replacement will be. I think Honda’s NSX lineage should be more important than a throwaway moniker but it’s their company, their car.

It was an additional comment for Don who thinks mid engine has to be NSX. I just added that it HAD to have a V6, as Honda never let go of the V6 for a supercar.

Prime GTP — “Sorry, but I can’t think of AWD as a true performance drivetrain. The rear wheels are all that matters.

I agree.

That NSX was a joke…!

Honda plans to hide the fact they can’t build a strong world-class, race winning sports car, without burying it in gadgets. If I’m wrong they will win against the Corvette, Porsche, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Ferrari, and a myriad for others outside Japan.

Hope that they reconsider the mid-engine layout with a proper high revving v-8 or V10(Fingers Crossed). The original NSX was so good (besides horsepower) that they forced the European sports car makers to improve their cars.

Blakkarr — “Honda plans to hide the fact they can’t build a strong world-class, race winning sports car, without burying it in gadgets. ”

Dude, the S2000 and NSX are minimalist, have no gadgets and are pure design home runs. Go check one out. No gadgets.

Honda is one of, if not THE, most successful race winning car companies out there. They are dominant in all types of motorcycle, IndyCar, Champ Car and of course the almighty Formula 1.

The gadgets are market driven, they think thats what people want now. Honda engineers can make anything, hopefully the execs will sign off on the correct design.

good thing their advanced sports concept car looked like real crap. It looked really really really bad, i was shocked when i saw it. Especially compared to the honda hsc concept wich looked very good.

I think cars like this are stupid, and Honda doesn’t really NEED to offer it. I think making the RL more appealing is a higher priority.

they should keep the back though

Renton,

If you actually look at the history of Japanese sports cars, you will see the same theme over and over again. They rely on gadgets and techno-gimmicks more than the car itself. This a stark change from when they did rely on the car itself…

They also have a habit of not maintaining a strong lineage. Nissan did good by the Z-car, but Honda (and Toyota for that matter) really never developed a long running line of sports cars of it’s own. If you want to pin that on the S2000, then I will only say this: It’s not radical enough or it needs a V6, which I had been saying for years. I have hopes for the next “S” to be much better than the current one, but it’ll never actually beat a Vette or 911 (I’ll be fair… a Boxster or Cayman).

Honda (and Toyota) seem to think they can just slap a sports car together and it’ll sell. But without a strong rep, like Nissan, Subaru, and Mitsubishi have, they will be frequently overlooked and have to really prove themselves time and again. the slightest stumble could easily kill the car. Stats won’t convince buyers of high dollar sports cars; having a car that can compete well against others does.

Believe me, I am very curious about this new car, but I was curious about the NSX and it came and went like good news on a bad day. Honda fans may hate me now but they should hope and pray their aspiration for this car don’t fall flat. While I love American cars (I will always say that) I am a bigger booster of Nissan over Honda or Toyota because they earned it. Honda has yet to prove to me they are for real.

AS for their racing program, Honda is good, no doubt. But Racing indycars and racing sports cars are very different. One, in uniform racing like INDYCar, CART, and Formula, the fixed parameters of the cars means Honda can only see their way with engine tech and not frame tech. It’s when a maker has to make their own car from scratch that their real experience and even faith in themselves, shows. Honda has shown themselves to be at least timid, and at most afraid to compete.

Seriously, if they were serious the NSX would have been a much better car and maybe still in production and the S2000 would have been more robust instead of mindlessly pandering to compact car fans with a wimpy four-cylinder. The Six in an Accord is more powerful and a better match for the expectations of those who might have purchased one NEW and not second hand, which is the only way most fans can afford one. When the first owners realized they bought a car that is as impressive next to a Corvette or Viper as a Civic SI is next to an M3 or an AMG C-class.

Minimalist has it’s place, but it must also deliver. Honda has not delivered in my mind. can Honda? Maybe. That’s why I want to see this new car when it’s ready and not a second before.

Then again they could just be busy on other things they consider vastly more important than winning Sports car races.

Blakkarr,

The NSX would have been a much bettercar if Honda was serious? Are you kidding? The NSX was unreal when it came out. It lasted as long as it did b/c of fantastic design and execution. The six was great for the time and worked very well, they massaged it as best they could, but after like 7 years into its runs the horsepower wars crushed it power. The car was still fantastic. Hondas business sense did not allow them to develop a V8 at the time and the car was discontinued after 12 years. They lost money on every one. The car was so exotic yet reliable it forced Ferrari to change its game and become the juggernaut it is today.

The S2000 not robust enough? Mindlessly pandering to compact car fans? The S2000 is quite robust and completely over-built. The simple fact that you think a V6 would be better shows that you just don’t understand the cars mission. To be the best roadster ever. The “wimpy” 4 cylinder that you bash was THE MOST POWERFUL NORMALLY ASPIRATED ENGINE FOR ITS SIZE, EVER. 240 bhp out of 2 liters. 120 hp/ltr, with no forced induction or nitrous. Just great design and F1 levels of piston speed. It won engine of the year a few times. The 2.2 is even better on the street. It does not try to be a V8.

Why no six? Easy….weight. A good sports car has lightness, it aids in handling, which the S2000 rules in that catagory.

The only reason Honda has not decided to win in sports car racing is b/c they have not decided to.

The S2000 is one of the greatest sportscars the world has ever seen. Ever. You obviously have never driven one. The NSX is even better.

Seriously, do you think a company that has competed in F1 for over 30 years and achieved the status of World Champion could be called timid? You may not think Honda is a company worth of respect, but Ferrari knows what it can do, so does BMW.

Ever read a review on an S2000? The only critique is that it is too extreme.

Check this out. This is really what it is like to drive one of these.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8447949752782429207&q=s2000&hl=en

By serious I mean stick with it. The NSX was all but abandoned by Honda. They made a few attempts to update the car, but when you are getting the pants beat off you by standard C4 Corvettes (the lower end off the food chain), You just don’t have want it takes.

I also doubt the NSX even registered to Ferrari. They had more pressing competition for other European marks like Porsche, and Lamborghini. As for not developing a V8, Why? Porsche has been doing just fine with a Six for decades. Honda just never put any work into the car. Why? ask them I don’t know.

The S2000. lightness does not much matter if you are still not quick enough or fast enough. Handling as a function of low weight? C6 Corvette gives up barely 200 lbs to the S2000 and is shamelessly more powerful and better handling at the limit… which is much higher that the S2000. Cars like the Vette, Viper, and 911 seem to appear deficient in that regard only because they has more to work with off the lot than an “S”. Holding back on th throttle and those cars would run rings with an “S” and if not, just leave it in the dust. The S2000 NEEDS a V6 for the sheer power and the potential. A competent company like Honda could find a way to make it work… Probably by making it a coupe, which would be lighter and stiffer anyway.

That’s not to say the car sucks. IT doesn’t. If you think I’m trying to say it does, I would have outright, so don’t sweat that. The S2000’s four-banger is a high-revver and it needs to be in order to produce it’s output numbers. It makes it a much more difficult car to drive normally, and a needless challenge to keep spun up on balanced tracks, the kind championship races are run. On tighter tracks, this trait can be an asset but not a winning one. The torque and sheer power of a six, eight or ten, will crush even the best fours… and the S2000 has one of the best, yet still isn’t good enough. The competition handles as well or better and with more power for higher speed.

As a Club racer, the S2000 has few peers, though that might change in the coming years.

Anyway, If Honda wants to win in Sports cars? They could if they wanted… They obviously did with the NSX and the S2000… and they HAVE NOT. The S2000 is not powerful enough and the NSX just doesn’t have it.. any of it. Does Honda want to win? I don’t know but all signs point firmly to “maybe”.

Your opinions about Honda’s sports car offerings is rather biased based on the fact that they are not gracing any winner’s circles of note outside Japan. They have not been strong competitors, nor will they.

Again, the S2000 may be a legacy car for Honda that can change that for them; their “Z-Car”. But the NSX has sailed and sunk. Stop making excuses for Honda. They aren’t making any for themselves. They haven’t won because they simply have not shown the initiative to build something that can win and keep it in the running themselves.

Also even if I did drive an S2000 of NSX, I doubt it would change my mind. Though I think an NSX would be fun, I will never ride or drive in a convertible unless I HAVE NO CHOICE. Personal preference and phobia of “open-air” driving… Thus I’ll never touch an S2000 top up or down.

“Seriously, do you think a company that has competed in F1 for over 30 years and achieved the status of World Champion could be called timid? You may not think Honda is a company worth of respect, but Ferrari knows what it can do, so does BMW.”

AT what point did I say Honda did not deserve respect. Did I not say previously that Honda is a great company. Did I not say that Honda had it in them to do better than they were. I have Respect. But Obviously you fail to see that and instead feel your fandom in jeopardy. I simply point out that history does not favor Honda and their past endeavors. You want them on a pedestal they do not really belong on. Ferrari knows what Honda can do so does BMW.. Yet they don’t seem to care. How can I say that? Why aren’t they building their own “S2000-fighters” or “NSX-fighters”? Because those cars are nothing to them. Look.. really look. No one cares if Honda makes a new sports car. It won’t change anything. The Vettes and Aston Martins will still rule Lemans, Ferrari will still rule Formula, Ford and Chevy will still Rule Indy and CART. Also, Ferrari has more to fear from FORD or Chevrolet than Honda in racing.

BTW if you determined to put me on the other side of this, so I am the “enemy”, then I’m done here. I said I wasn’t going to try to change your mind about you feelings about Honda. This all started because I just don’t think Honda is serious about building a sports car that is fitting to their racing heritage. They are going to build a gadget-mobile and not a street-legal racecar worthy of their time in racing and skill as a car builder.

As for the Video.. Why don’t you just ask me to play an S2000 in Grand Turismo on PS2? That showed my nothing. He was going so slow he had time to wipe his nose. Seriously what were you trying to do? Prove my case or your’s?

That said, You can have the last word. I’m done on this thread. But I’ll read what you have to say. But I won’t respond.

Blakkarr,

I think we just lost the original post.

“Honda plans to hide the fact they can’t build a strong world-class, race winning sports car, without burying it in gadgets.

If I’m wrong they will win against the Corvette, Porsche, Aston Martin, Jaguar, Ferrari, and a myriad for others outside Japan.”

I was refering to the first 1/2.

Honda does build world class sports cars. The NSX was a major player in its day and yes Ferrari noticed. My whole point was that Honda has not been timid in its sports cars. Both were/are great cars. The NSX has sailed, but it has not sunk. It has its place in sports car history. Just pick up any of the books on great sports cars of the 20th century and the NSX has a nice write up.

When I was refering to Sports Car racing, there is only one that matters, Le Mans. I don’t know what

If you want to out on a limb and say the S2000 is not a world class sports car, go ahead. It is, the simple fact that you never drove one, much less flogged it shows that you arre not in the know. Why won’t you drive an open topped car? Can you ride a motorcycle? The phobia thing needs to be addressed before you can truly comment. Seriously it does. You hav never driven an S2000, or NSX, yet get on the soapbox about Honda not building a world class race winning sports car.

The whole fanboy thing is a mindless comment, the post you made about Honda trying to hide the fact that it can’t build a strong world class race winning sports car was simply the thing that caught my attention.

I’m no Japanese car lover, most of them are soft under powered and have terrible brakes. Not the NSX and S2000. The Corvette may be faster, it is, and I love it. The fit an finish on it sucks BTW. I can’t spend money on crappy interiors. My fanboy love goes towards German and Italian cars.

It is tough to address all of your points, you write in such absolutes. Let’s agree the NSX is dead for developement and current racing.

The S2000 not powerfull enough? It is the most powerfull in its class and it knocks on the door of way more expensive cars. It equals the performance of a Boxster S. For almost 1/2 the price.

These responses take work and I don’t blame you for not wanting to post anymore on this minor subject. I never said you were a hater or the enemy, merely that you did not get it. Its OK, lots don’t.

Talking about THE S2000. It is NOT a Supercar, by my definition founded on performance, even THE Z06 has to be counted on a technicality. The NSX was a flash in the pan having made a good show then fading away. However, the S2000 is, undeniably, a sports car deserving high regard.

But anyway, I never can not understand what people keep griping about when it comes to interiors. I found the Corvette’s interior more than comparable to anything out of Europe or Japan, not a specifically made Luxury interior. Having had fond experience in a number of 1960s and 1970s sports cars, though not a Porsche 911 of the era, so sad, I found that The Corvette never lost sight of being a ****pit of a sports car, not a luxury lounge, much like those great, many still benchmark, cars of yesteryear. Fit and finish were, while not flawless, more than adequate and will easily stand the test of time. I just don’t get what these people are griping about when thousands every year world wide buy Corvettes without such complaints. So what am I missing?

You might be right that I don’t get it, but then one could say the same of you. I might go back on my word here, but Re-checking the stats and experiential logs of actual racers and owners, the S2000 was frequently on the short in of a long stick against anything with more than six cylinders except Mustangs, Camaros and Firebirds. That said The S2000 is not meant for the world stage as a “King of all Sports Cars”. It would be like comparing a lightweight boxer against a heavyweight. But it is also a car in an arena with few competitors and thusly overlooked having no one to really prove itself against. Well… not until the Kappas showed up and they may be a couple of years from being harsh competitors. Still they add considerable light to this segment and could give the S2000 a chance to properly shine.

Anyway, The S2000 still reads as underpowered, It’s styling is boring as almost every Honda not a Motorcycle I’ve even seen, and is the third most unfriendly street legal sports car out there, The MT900 and the The Viper rank one and two respectfully. Also it is not the most powerful car in it’s class, the Boxster, not the “S”, makes a solid 245HP @ 6400RPM and 201lb/ft @ 4700 RPM as opposed to the S2000 with 239hp @ 7800 rpm and 162 lb/ft @ 6800 RPM (these are the 2007 model year figures). The standard Cayman is strangely less powerful but quicker and faster.

Also while less expensive, the Boxster still stickers for around $46K and the S2000 around $35K though typically goes for $40K-$45K. The S2000 is not Half the price. The Corvette is world class at half the price. You might be thinking of the Cayman which stickers at over $60K.

But that is knit-picking, The S2000 is a car in an overlooked segment of Sports cars. The NSX was meant to be the “Glory Car”. But we know how that played out.

As to my aversion, “phobia”, of convertibles, I DON’T FEEL SAFE IN THEM! Period. I’ve never been in a roll over nor seen one happening, but I can never get that concern out of my head. I would never be able to drive a Convertible Sports cars hard enough to appreciate it as a result. So if that permanently excluded the S2000 from my experience, then so be it. I still feel as if I wouldn’t be missing much.

“You hav never driven an S2000, or NSX, yet get on the soapbox about Honda not building a world class race winning sports car.”

It’s a trap I fall into. I’ll say something and not think about it until after I hit “submit”. However I still stand by my conceit that Honda is not trying hard enough. As I have said before, the S2000 might turn that around, as a Legacy Car, growing and improving with every generation, much like a Vette and 911, both with over 50 years under their belts. But right now I just don’t see it as “all that”. You apparently do… or close to it anyway. That doesn’t make me wrong, and if you have driven an S2000 to it’s limit, cool for you. Me? I think I have only seen three in my life. I can’t go a day with out seeing at least one Vette and I see more Kappas every other day. So you can see what shapes my experience.

Anyway, despite or rather in spite of what has been said, this was actually rather enjoyable, unlike some experiences I’ve had on this site. Thanks.

I agree that Honda has not tried hard enough. They could do even better. S2000 at the limit, not on the street. Above 6500 RPM it is a freak show. I’ll get it to a track this summer.

Try to get over your phobia and take one for a scream on a warm summer day. There are plenty to be had out there. You won’t roll. The window on the S2K is a roll bar , so are the roll bars behind your head. Maybe you will never own one, but at least drive one.

The whole reason for the 4 cylinder was light weight over the front wheels, also the motor is behind the front axel so it is a mid-engine technically. The front suspension is inside the front wheels like a formula car. The details are uncanny.

click on this :

http://www.s2000.com/s2k_xbone.php

check out some of the cool details.

I think we have seen the full development of the S2000. It is time for something else. Looking forward to it. I get the feeling Honda is trying to be less soft and more aggressive. Hopefully the marketing dept will let the engineering dept do their thing.

I think the Vette is great but like all GM cars it is only 8 or 9/10ths complete. They alway have great powertrain and chassis but fall flat on interior, steering feel, brake feel. No doubt in the Vette’s performance. I came very close to buying one last year

The Kappas tops always look terrible when they are up. What is up with that? Also no trunk space with top down. Top down the S2000 can store a weekends worth of clothes for two, or 2 compact golf bags.

Again I agree Honda could do even better, I would love to see them build a supercar. I think they intend to, hence the back to the drawing board news. I guess we will see soon enough.

Nice discussion here as well Thanks

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