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Why don’t they cut their Phaeton and Tuareg bs models?

SPANK – Try to overtake us and we’ll get revenge.

The Touareg is an awesome SUV and sells well for VW, as a peoples car, which is what they are, why would they cut it?

People, this is all about moving VW upscale, which they can’t really do if Porsche models (i.e. non-sports cars) are in the way.

HOLY MOTHER OF THE CAR GODS! Wasn’t expecting that! But at the end-of-the-day it is good news, Porsche can get back to what they do best…building exhilarating sports cars

VW isn’t moving upscale. They are putting Porsche where they belong, they are keeping Audi upscale, keeping VW as it has always been (with a few nicer models, such as the Touareg and Phaeton) and they are right, they have plenty of big saloons, none of which are as offensive to look at as the Panamera. The S8, S6, RS6, S5 sportback, Flying Spur, blah blah blah.. all cover the range that the Panamera is wasting time with.

Why cease production of a money maker? if anything, this must be about moving Audi upscale not Vw
Porsche is still building exhilarating cars and A4 how well does the toureg sell?

So the meat of this story is that we won’t see any changes till at least 2014… Come on, everyone who knew anything saw this coming! I had been saying that the clash between Audi and Porsche would end somewhere with ownership of both companies.

A4 – if you saw the Car and Driver article on the future of VW’s NA products, tell me what you think. I’ve got serious concearn over where VW is pushing itself as we are to them a third-world country now and aligning our taste with China and Russia. 20 years ago who the eff would think we would be aligned with Russia?

A4… Cayene can make lot more money for the same car than the Touareg. And by the way… Shouldn’t they cut the Audi R8? It competes with Lambo and Dares to be better than the classic 911.

Porsche just got b*tch-slapped!

On a more serious note though: why ax a successful SUV if it’s making money? Even if there is overlap? Doesn’t make a lot of sense unless bcjohnso99 has it right.

^^^I thought that too, but remember VW won over Porsche, and they want to keep there own product that’s doing well, like the spoils of winning a war, the R8 will live on.

Good! The Cayenne and Panamera should be killed off. They are both ugly. They could have had a better design for the Panamera.

Wow… By this logic they should cut the TT and the R8 as well if they want to clean up the brands. And cut the Phaeton. It’s a huge failure. Oh, and wait. Seat, VW, and Skoda makes the exact same cars. Could get complicated…

Freaking morons- the Cayenne is a money maker and the Panamera hasn’t even launched yet. VW’s suck anyway and Porsches are incredible AND reliable which is amazing in itself for the type of company it is. This is such a dumb move

@ A4 – lol

I guess it comes with the VW way of doing things… They obviously see the giant elephant in the room…. LITERALLY!
OPEN YOUR EYES!

I don’t deem this report as credible….in a few days VW will come out and dispell these rumors. VW will never be Porsche. The Phaeton could never be the Panamera. The Panamera I didn’t like in the beginning, but it grew on me and is a car I would consider. The Cayenne, it is what it is. However it doesn’t make sense for a sub-level Porsche….that would definitely go head to head with a VW model. This report is bogus.

-zee. I agree. I like VW, but they are trying to push themselves up-market, making cars that have the essence of an Audi. Porsche and Audi are the “attainable” luxury brands (when compared to other ultra-lux marques under the VW umberlla), however I do not believe that the buyers are the same. Hopefully the next couple of years will allow VW to change their minds.

Who knows, maybe they will still come out with a Panamara coupe in a few years that will keep the “sporting intenions” of the company. I hope so. Plus, they can change the styling and have it not look like @ss.

Remember, VW is still getting all of the R&D that Porsche has put into the Panamara. I would not be surprised to see a lot of the tech created for the Cayanne and the Panamera get incorporated into future Audis. Otherwise Porsche will have completely wasted a huge investment in creating the Panamara. They spent more on the development of this car than any other car in its history. That Twin Turbo V8 has got to go somewhere. I say make a smaller, lighter new 928 with 500+ horsepower. Now that would be something.

I was excited about Porsche returning to its roots- but then I got to the 914 part and well….

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I said months ago that these vehicles were hideous and should be scrapped

“Returning to its roots” is a PR statement that basically means re-stratifying certain vehicle types into the brands they will best fit in. This has nothing to do with Porsche “returning to its roots” because Porsche is already there. They still have the 911, Boxster, and Cayman, which are what Porsche is known for. If this were a case of the Cayenne surpassing the 911 in recognition, then I’d say ya there’s a problem. But that’s not the case, and I doubt it ever will be. The Panamera will also not surpass the 911, and frankly I think its looks are enough to get it canceled after the first generation. Porsche is right to at least try to take on Maserati in the boutique luxo-missile market. I don’t think their attempt dillutes their brand, it’s just that their product isn’t pretty. There is room for the concept within the current Porsche lineup though.

Whatever. From a business standpoint these apparent moves seem dumb because they make money. From a buyer’s perspective, it likely makes little to no difference.

Just because Porsche can build an SUV does not mean they should. What is Porsche known for? You don’t go to Outback for a chicken sandwich no more than Porsche for SUVs and awful looking sedans. It’s Basic Branding 101. What I would like to see instead of these two models is a Porsche version of the Blue Sport concept that VW currently has. That would give them a $30K entry model in a world that has a continuously shrinking pocket book.

Yes! Hell yes!

Get Porsche back to it’s roots.

Right on VW.

Thanks, but I’ll wait for an official announcement from VW. Too many times an “Inside source” is also someone with an axe to grind.

I never liked that Panamera, but the Cayenne is a big seller though!!

not intelligent move from a buisness point of view, talking bout Cayenne obviously

SomeGreek,
read the article again, because it seems like you didn’t understand it well…

I think I tend to highly agree with their VW’s actions. They are putting everyone back in place where they should be! Audi should be at the top, porsche should be a sporty brand that brings up an image of a sporty car…lol…not a 4 door…even though I really like both of those models, vw is right where they should be. There is nothing wrong with moving your cars to a higher grade or scale.

I’m down for this movement!

I agree that the cayenne isn’t true to the porsche philosophy, but you don’t ax your money maker

so , basically VW says they want to double Porsche sales by killing off the model they sell the most ? OK…

Um, 928dreamer, a Panamera Coupe exists already. It’s called the 911…been around for a couple of years already

I agree with this move (if it’s true – and why would it be? Why would they announce that models are dying when they’re launching them shortly?) from a philosophy/brand identity standpoint, but not from a business case standpoint. At least for the Cayenne cash cow, this makes no sense at all. The thing isn’t an LM002 that had to be sold by being a forced purchase if you wanted a Countache. The Panamera success is yet to be seen. I’m sure it’s going to be really enjoyable to drive, but I’d rather have a Rapide, thankyouverymuch.

I was not a fan of Porsche making the Cayenne when it debuted nor a fan when they talked about making the Panamera. I have to say that even now, I’m still not a fan of a Porsche truck, but it is a big money maker.The kind of moneymaker that allows Porsche to continually invest more quality into their cars. No one would want a new 911 with dated technology and power as a result of a lack of funds. In all regards, the Cayenne, Audi Q7, and VW Toureg are all the same SUVs (platform sharing) with different engines and relative designs. I look at it as them making an SUV to appeal to different markets kind of like GM making the Cadillac Escalade/ESV, GMC Yukon/XL, Chevy Tahoe/Suburban. Their are people out there who want a Porsche truck over an Audi just because of the name and the power it posesses, hence Cayenne Turbo S. In regards to the Panamera, it doesn’t compete with the Audi A8/S8 or VW Phaeton being that it is labled as being in the supercar market rivaling with Aston Martin and such. VW, Porsche, Audi, and Bentley all have cars that do not fit their place so it is illogical to cut to cars, one not even launched and the other being a huge profit.

I was not a fan of Porsche making the Cayenne when it debuted nor a fan when they talked about making the Panamera. I have to say that even now, I’m still not a fan of a Porsche truck, but it is a big money maker.The kind of moneymaker that allows Porsche to continually invest more quality into their cars. No one would want a new 911 with dated technology and power as a result of a lack of funds. In all regards, the Cayenne, Audi Q7, and VW Toureg are all the same SUVs (platform sharing) with different engines and relative designs. I look at it as them making an SUV to appeal to different markets kind of like GM making the Cadillac Escalade/ESV, GMC Yukon/XL, Chevy Tahoe/Suburban. Their are people out there who want a Porsche truck over an Audi just because of the name and the power it posesses, hence Cayenne Turbo S. In regards to the Panamera, it doesn’t compete with the Audi A8/S8 or VW Phaeton being that it is labled as being in the supercar market rivaling with Aston Martin and such. VW, Porsche, Audi, and Bentley all have cars that do not fit their place so it is illogical to cut to cars, one not even launched and the other being a huge profit. For Porsche to make an entry level car starting around $30k is ridiculous. That goes against the identity of Porsche being a high-end sports car company. Thats like Aston Martin making a car for the price of a mid-range Jaguar i.e XF. Let that idea be geared towards Audi.

Phaeton and Touareg should go, the panamera is pretty pointless as well, i mean it’s just a pregnant 911 and also the cayman, that should go, it’s just a boxter with a big rear end… truth is, the cayenne makes money for them and next to the range rover sport, it is becoming the guy to beat on the premium SUV segment,

I agree with the comments about the Audi R8 poaching Porsche sales and Lambo sales. Additionally the Panamerica price tag doesn’t compete with anything else (in VW group) except maybe the Bentley four door Continental, but those are 2 different cars to me. I don’t like the idea of a cheap Porsche. With the SUV craze it makes sense to have a sporty SUV. Dunno… I disagree with the move. If anything I think the R8 should be axed.

yes Yes YEs YES YESSSSS!

This move makes sense. Yes the cayenne is a money maker, however, The introduction of the entry level model as a Volume driver will easily make up for the Cayenne ax. Lets be real, the only difference between the Cayenne, and the its platform mates its its beefy sporting engine. Though i cant beleive im gonna say it, If audi Gives the Q7 the same treatment BMW is giving its SUV’s, and gives it a “S” model trim, that sporting can be had there. The panamera, though controversial, bold, simply doesnt fit the porsche image. As long as i can remember porsche has been the been the image of of the perfect sports car, built with only the purpose of being a sports car and not influenced by the gimmicks the rest of the automotive world was susceptible to. The panamera should have died well before they started to produce it.

As for VW moving upscale…not really. VW has always been sort of a german Mazda, all their cars are slightly upscale of the competition, offered more amenities than the comparable Honda/toyota with a bit of an enthusiast touch. I agree with A4 they are simply putting the brands back in their place. And though many will disagree the audi R8 will live on. Though it appears to step on the toes of Lambo and Porsche it really does not. Lambo and porshe are all out sports cars built for speed and finesse. The R8 has an interior that you feel like you could live in, and if anyone watched the video of its track day, it has performance…but its no Lambo. It has a place. The TT has a place as it really doesnt step on anyones toes and is turning out to be quite the seller for Audi now that the TT-S has proven to be able to hang with the Z4 and slk. Long story short this is a good move. And it will do them well to keep these axed vehicles around till the next model cycle, no point in waisting all that R&D. Maybe in the coming YEARS VAG will get their sH!t together and become the company that it really longs to be

shut up, the R8 is one of the most beautiful and awesome cars!
i think audi will soon have enough sporty SUVs (Q5, upcoming Q3) and sport sedans (S6,RS6,S8, upcomin S7 and RS)to fill the gap of a cayenne and panamera.
i would miss both, the cayenne and pana, but they aren`t and will never really be the heartbeat of Porsche.

(adressed to aesir)

Sad day for Porsche as a company but as for their products… as long as VW doesn’t mess with the current 911 lineup and all of the specialty models within it it’s not a terrible thing. A 914 variant will definitely come out of this– but using a flat-4 would be best in Porsche’s case. And I share my hopes with 928Dreamer that a new 928 V8-TT touring coupe comes out of the demise of the Panamera.

nobody knows if it is true, so let´s wait and see. the VW board will react soon and comment on the rumors i am pretty sure.

ZeeGone- You just made the Armstealer Book of World Records as the first person to ever call Porsche reliable! Congrats!

i’m on my 4th Porsche and they were all reliable. my first one was a 944 used by a drug dealer in Eastern Europe, that car was like a tank. i payed 1500 German marks for it in 1998 and the guy i sold it to still uses it as a rally car.

It seems like a lot of you people are talking out in anger with your comment with the, if they take out this porsche, they should take out this vw. That makes no sense, what’s your logic behind that anyways?

If there is one company we should be blaming, it’s PORSCHE for being so kocky!!

bdizzle – 911 is Rear engined and the 928 is front engined, different types of cars thaat overlap a little, but the 928 was always the luxo-grand tourer with a better interior. Ah how I’d love to see a new 928, that would be like a dream come true. Maybe I can win the lottery by then and afford one – oh wait, I’ve never bought a lottery ticket so there goes that plan…

not making the cayenne in the first place would’ve been a good move to preserve the image of the brand…dropping the cayenne now that it’s a solid player in the marketplace and makes a ton of cash is not a good move…the cat is already out of the bag on this one, and my gut instinct is that you should run until the race is over, and the market moves beyond the cayenne, and not before…

if they do axe the panamera we’ll never know what the true sales figures would’ve been like, but while it was an awkward looking car, the reviews were generally quite positive…it wasn’t an aston martin rapide, but it was a true 4-door porsche…

as for the “they’re ugly” comments, have you seen the rest of the porsche lineup? none of those cars are all that pretty…none…zero…the 911 has been ugly for decades and nobody gives a crap…in fact, if you made the 911 a more generic pretty sports car it’d lose character…porsche consistently makes weird and ugly cars desirable, that’s part of their magic…you know that even though it looks odd it’ll drive like a monster…the closest thing to a sleek porsche currently is the cayman, and they artificially keep the hp down on that car because it’ll give a 911 a run for much less money…

the thing i’m waiting for is the porsche’s version of the bluesport…and i can guarantee it’ll be uglier than the bluesport is right now!

i don’t believe these rumours are true , why saying that you plan to axe a product that you haven’t even started selling ? that’s shooting yourself in the foot. Especially when one week before they said they want to double Porsche sales in the next years.

It makes perfect sense…all of those claims of the panameras success came from porsche leads. Under VW they are being realistic… while the panamera may be a hit it takes porsche further away from their long lived image. Idrin is right, Porsche is the only one to blame for whats going on, they got ****y, tried to step up without the umph to back them up and now The leaders at VW are tellin them to get back in line and STFU.

I do slightly agree with leftwingagenda here. Porsche has always been the cars on the road I’ve desired the most, they’re attainable, reliable, and incredible. I personally still love the design, it’s very classic yet new. Being in the car biz I do hear after asking many clients able to afford these cars what they’d take and many times they say “but everyone has a Porsche, they’re a dime a dozen”. It is true you do see several around, that doesn’t make them any less desirable to me, but to many it does so I can see their angle.

Porsche should not kill the Panamera so early on, it’s going to be a ridiculous car and nothing but good for business. I think they could capture more market share if they did come out with a new design along with the other sport coupes. I see 944 and 928 models on the road still to this day and think, wow those are so cool; not just because they’re Porsches and everything that comes along with that but also because they’re not 911s.

What is so wrong with expanding the line up and keeping the Cayenne and Panamera? You’ll just have more money to pour in to building and developing a next new awesome sports car.

^ they dont develop new and awesome sports cars, the 911 is the sports car equivalent of the Ford Ranger.

You pathetic audihead…

Cayenne was a pretty silly exercise, and didn’t need to be such an off-roader
The sedan is something Porsche should offer
I don’t really care either way
But if you want a Porsche sedan, you should be able to get one
DrFill

Jake, just a quick lesson on history: WWI started in 1939 because Germany was in perfect alignment with Russia.

We know it’s not a right move, VW businessman should too, so let’s hear it from them.

This saddens me. The Cayenne is such a beautiful truck and it represented for high-powered SUV’s. Who else besides the Range Rover sport will represent? The Trailblazer SS and Jeep Cherokee SRT-8 have also been canceled. Oh well. It was great while it lasted.

slightly agree? whatcha afraid of, dude?! to skeered to actually agree with me?

the 911 is definitely not a ford ranger…the 911 is an icon…the sports car equivalent of a ford ranger is a ford mustang, don’t they share the same rear suspension?

You know, if GM did something of this nature, they would not be in the trouble they are in now. The VW brand of cars is different enough that not many of the models overlap. While I completely understand their decision to end production of the Panamera and Cayenne, I do not understand the outcry on this discussion thread complaining about the move. It is just like the article wrote, the Cayenne is simply a beefed up version of the Tourareg, different suspension for different needs and a bigger, high performance engine. While it does draw in decent sales, why have three different versions of the same vehicle? Especially since that vehicle does not fit with the brands image. And the Panamera while great in concept, simply does not fit the Porsche lineup. Porsche is not a family car building business, they build great high performance, 2 door autos, period. Getting away from what they are best at would ultimately dilute the brand by introducing a vehicle such as that. People would question why buy this car vice a 2 door porsche? Why buy this newly created car instead of a more proven and better performing sedan from the likes of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc. that will likely be thousands less? If you want to criticize the VW board, criticize them for abandoning the concept VW Bus introduced around 06 and getting into bed with Chrysler an making that bastard minivan creation that has failed to live up to any semblance of respectable sales. Another thing you should fault them on is introducing that bastard 2.5 5 cylinder engine into the VW lineup instead of finally making the 1.4 or 1.7 litre twincharger engine an alternate engine to the current 2 litre turbo. I fail to understand how such a highly praised and efficient engine has not become their standard baseline engine. And one more thing you can really fault them for is not making the DSG gearbox standard on all their models.

haha, i said slightly agree because i don’t fully agree on your points, I don’t think Porsches are ugly at all. A4 on the other- don’t agree at all because she doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about obvously.

Definitely didn’t see this coming.
Is Porsche weren’t so greedy, perhaps they might not be in such turmoil!

Right on! Porsche should be making great sportscars leaving ordinary peoples transporters and stuff like that to VW, not so ordinary peoples transporters and stuff like that to Audi.

That said, I still find the Phaeton to be a great car…But not a very sexy one.

“While it does draw in decent sales, why have three different versions of the same vehicle?”
Because all ofthem sell better than if there was only one.
“And the Panamera while great in concept, simply does not fit the Porsche lineup.”
Of corse Porsche think otherwise but what do they know? Vw and you know better. . .
“Getting away from what they are best at would ultimately dilute the brand by introducing a vehicle such as that.”
So far nothing has been diluted, so whatt are you talking about?
“People would question why buy this car vice a 2 door porsche?”
Are you suggesting that people will be comnfused between the 911 and Panamera?
“Why buy this newly created car instead of a more proven and better performing sedan from the likes of Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc. that will likely be thousands less?”
So you’ve done a comparison test too and decided Panamera will be inferior…
“I fail to understand how such a highly praised and efficient engine has not become their standard baseline engine. And one more thing you can really fault them for is not making the DSG gearbox standard on all their models.”
It is becoming the standard engine rapidly and the DSG gearbox is an option for almost every model of the Group.

Just get your facts right, Treize.

Make a new 928 based of the Panamera chassis and use Cayenne V8’s or something. To go head to head with GT’s like the DB9 and 6-Series cars. while the 911 to be the more sportier version.

might cause a bit of overlap but not much if done right.

Absolutely makes sense. Good choice VW!

Borat- I’m pretty sure that WWI started in 1914.

I really like the Cayenne… but I’m sire it will live on as an audi after the net cycle. Slot it between the A7 and A5

Too bad. The Cayenne is probably the only Porsche I would have ever purchased.

eff150
uuh, the cayenne is an suv. The a7 and a5 are coupes. The only time it is going to slot in between them is at the supermarket.

While unfortunate given the sales of the Cayenne and promising Panamera, this does make sense. VW is keeping Porsche from becoming Pontiac. By returning the brand to its purer past, they’re avoiding the day thirty years down the road when everyone knows the only differences between the three brands are interior colors and some plastic crap stuck on the sides.

Had GM realized this in the 80s (I’m looking at you, T100, Sunbird, Korean LeMans, Parisienne, Trans Sport, 6000, Aztek, et.al), Pontiac could’ve ended up becoming something that would’ve been worth keeping today.

V.W. lacks quility among it’s car lines. Gasoline engined powered Jetta, golf, passat, new beetle, they are cars with flows. However, thier Diesel powered cars are much better.

New bigger salons and suv.
If you own a Pheaton you will know that maintaining it is not a simple task. And if you decide to head to your nearest V.W. dealer for service, you might want to find out first if they are the certified Pheaton dealer/service dept for your Pheaton. Those who bought the car used, are probably having second thoughts about thier purchase since servicing a Pheaton at dealer is equel or more then servicing a Porshce.

Touareg, well lets just say anyone that I know who bought that thing also are not happy campers.
At the end of the day, they are just a V.W. Problem cars!

Cayenne enjoys a better reputation then Touareg. Yes Cayenne also is a high cost suv to own.
I am not a fan of Cayenne, Panamera, I like the 911 kind of cars.
But I think Porsche has much better quality control then V.W. these days.

By announcing that you they will pull the Panamera makes is a loser already. I LOVED the Panamera, but if, before it’s barely release, VW is announcing it’s a loser, why would anyone buy it. That is a big marketing mistake.

Of course, releasing an automobile like the Panamera in this economy was kind of foolish, but if you’re going to do it, do it. Confidence goes a long way. VW is killing any chance the Panamera may have had until 2012.