Comments on: Report: VW could shed or shakeup Lamborghini, Bugatti

By: DeezNutz

DeezNutz — Sat, 20 Jan 2007 14:25:01 +0000

Trying to catch up to Mercedes and BMW is starting to take it’s toll.

By: gumball

gumball — Sun, 14 Jan 2007 13:04:26 +0000

Lose bugatti, keep lamborghini. I think lamborghini is more groundbraking than the bugatti. but i think they will make a big mistake of dropping lamborghini. I know that porsche are hughly independent but the chemistry b/w lambo and audi is impeccable. Porsche has to rememba that lamborghini has a history too. Also lamborghini also fill in that fine gap in the market that no one else has and that is the ferrari market. If porsche lose lambo ferrari takes wat porsche loses and i know that porsche dosn’t want that to happen.

If you think about it VW and porsche have covered every single segment of the automotive market. I think they are already at a good ground, but if they drop bugatti, its in the bag.

By: LamborghiniZ

LamborghiniZ — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:03:26 +0000

Andre Neves, they’re not “just saying that”, like I said, consider how much the project cost, the length of time they were engineering the Veyron, and how many Veyron’s are produced yearly. They ARE losing money on it because they blew so much money on the project to begin with, it’s simple

By: AdibzumbaAbihganulah

AdibzumbaAbihganulah — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 04:25:25 +0000

“…dumping Lambo would be heresy…”
As I said I too don’t care for the idea of selling Lamborghini. And forgive me my tifosi friends, but I too see it as a sister company to Ferrari, little sister at least. Of course we can’t compare the history behind them (specially racing history), but both are essentially great supersport-car-makers. Si, anche io amo Ferrari, comme un vero italiano. Ma io amo Lamborghini!!!

By: AdibzumbaAbihganulah

AdibzumbaAbihganulah — Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:31:28 +0000

HAHAHA Adigodzillaabdullahallahalqaida is just great, deantj. But don’t worry: I’m not Arabian. Actually I’m Italian and live in Milano (lovely city!!). This nickname has a long story.
And you guys don’t need to be so agressive. You really got a (good) point here, but VW tried a big move with this and, at least for now, it’s really not a good idea just throwing it through the ceiling. They will (you may think “unfortunately”) have to wait. Actually I think Chrysler and GM took the right way saying no to that monsters (awesome monsters). And I agree some other American, European or even Asian car-maker could built it as well. Of course Clarkson is a jerk, and I mentioned him because I remember when Piëch announced Veyron’s production he was the first to say it was a ridiculous move, but when he drove the car through the roads of France it simply changed his mind (you have to admit this must have been really difficult to a “God” like him). And even an idiot like him knows a car like that could easily turn into a joke, but this is not we’re seeing now. Serious American and European magazines are just adoring it. I didn’t drive it, but was taken for a short ride in Cannes and, believe me, my legs are still shaking. The car exhales solidity and magnificence.
I’m a huge fan of VW’s (in fact I don’t know why – lol). Let’s face it as a gambling, it’s not our money anyway: I bet on Veyron.

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:29:37 +0000

^ I highly doubt they are losing money on the car. They probably are just saying so that the potential customers think they are getting their money’s worth.
BTW, according to this months Road & Track it costs $1,400,000.

By: Manster

Manster — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:21:32 +0000

How the HELL do you produce a 1 Million Dollar Plus automobile and the brand remains unprofitable! Raise the price of the car….JEEZ!!! If a guy has 1 million to blow on a car, another few hundred thousand isn’t going to kill him…..especially for a car of this calibre….

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 05:08:32 +0000

^ Or just imagine Chrysler went ahead a produced the ME four 12.
I strongly agree with you on Jeremy Clarkson, the man needs to be sucker punched by the camera man during one of his in-car reviews.

Almost every sports-car manufacturer can achieve the same the VW/Bugatti has if they wanted to IMO, they’re just too busy building “realistic” vehicles that actually can turn a profit.

What would you rather build? A supercar that will have a total production of say 50 cars that will give you a $10-15 million dollar profit over a 3 year period? Or a vehicle that will have 20,000 in assembly over a 7-8 year period, and still give you maybe a $300,000,000 profit?

By: Piablo

Piablo — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 05:04:31 +0000

Andre Neves – The reason I’d be scared if Porsche were to take over VW is not because of any shortcomings they may have (if any…). What I would be concerned about is the company culture and mission changing. And it would. Taking over VW would represent a major shift in vision and goals for the company. As a result, there is a good chance that some of the things that we admire Porsche for would disappear. Do you really want the company that brings us 911s and Carerra GTs thinking about value engineering Jettas? I say don’t fix what isn’t broken, leave Porsche the way it is.

By: LamborghiniZ

LamborghiniZ — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 03:31:25 +0000

I agree with deantj, you got it exactly right there with your description of Lamborghini, I couldn’t do much better.

AdibzumbaAbihganulah: the problem is that the Veyron project cost SO damn much in R&D that it’s basically going to be impossible to recoup the losses through Veyron sales since they are so limited

By: AdibzumbaAbihganulah

AdibzumbaAbihganulah — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 02:00:53 +0000

Just think it’s too early to measure Bugatti-Veyron-project’s profitability. It would be stupid to sell Bugatti brand now that the money is already spent. I know that every Veyron built is lost money for VW, but I think it’s just for now. The brand’s strength and visibility is obviously growing as every car-expert-publication in the world is making genuflection over it.
As said Jeremy Clarkson: “It is a triumph for lunacy over common sense, a triumph for man over nature and a triumph for Volkswagen over absolutely every other car maker in the world.” Remember he was one of the most ferocious critics of that project.
And remember this “toy” was Ferdinand Piëch’s dream. Ferdinand is a leading Porsche family owner. Think about that. Wiedeken should.
And about selling Lamborghini? Don’t care for that, to.

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:08:50 +0000

^ I wouldn’t call them a sister company to Ferrari. The only similarity they share is the country they are made in.

By: LamborghiniZ

LamborghiniZ — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:38:38 +0000

If anything, sell Bugatti, VW is losing money on every Veyron, Lamborghini on the other hand is a profitable company, the cars are gorgeous, perform amazingly, are high profile, and actually make money. Lamborghini generates a profit, and positive interest, while Bugatti simply generates positive interest, forget about the profit. Clearly I’m biased as I have a thing and always have had a thing for Lamborghini’s, there’s something about them that I really lust over more than any other brand, but I still think that if i was a bit more objective I’d still say don’t sell Lambo for obvious financial reasons

By: peter g

peter g — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:36:11 +0000

Ok, Andre Neves…”Watering down the Porsche brand” may not be the right phrase. The Cayenne and especially the Cayman are great cars, -and funny you should mention the 924 and 944’s. It brings me back to before being married and having kids when I owned a 944. Affordable ( in Porsche terms ) and great fun. That said, I’ve never really liked the Cayenne: It’s ugly and I tend to have a problem with the people ( moms ) that drive this car. My problem…

By: YourNameHere

YourNameHere — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:29:06 +0000

that was a looong time ago.

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 21:19:06 +0000

Oh snap! Its just a matter of time now, The Toyota Corvette. Doesn’t anywhere near as good that way.

By: Breok

Breok — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:14:25 +0000

In reference to bb_454’s post about the Corvette not being a Toyota… Those days may be numbered:
http://www.japan-partner.com/Picture/Toyota/Cavalier/811/1/picture.html

On the topic of Porsche and VW, I would agree that Porsche should make a more affordable sports car for enthusiasts, it is definitely a market they are not tapping into right now. The problem is, will Porsche be willing to put it’s name on a toned down sports car? Maybe that is a good enough reason to buy VW, and release cheap sports cars through them. But that probably won’t fix the Cayanne problem either. I am definitely not a fan of the Cayanne, but at the same time, it is only logical to keep building something that is making buttloads of money (as are all SUV’s). Seeing a Cayanne parked next to a soccer field in my crappy town seems wrong, though. I don’t care if it is amazingly engineered and has awesome performance, that is not the point of an SUV. It just seems so audacious, and to me it screams “sellout,” especially from a company so focused on sports cars. It would seem that Mr. Wiedeking doesn’t have much interest in sports cars, just money (no surprise).

By: Jazz

Jazz — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 17:10:34 +0000

I’m a Porsche fanboy and I don’t really care if the Cayenne is perceived to water down the Porsche image. Porsche is profitiable. Let’s see other motor companies say that on 4 models. How many does GM have? Over a hundred? and they are still posting quarter net losses.

Furthermore the Cayenne helps pay for development of the 911, Cayman and Boxter. I say let the port ute fanboys keep buying Cayennes while us enthusiasts profit form better engineered cars.

Vette vs Porsche? Why would I care. The Vette has a huge engine (6L vs 3.6L), is not reliable and has uninspired interior. Remember cheap power is still cheap.

By: meanpants555

meanpants555 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:30:35 +0000

Andre: Neves: That is wild and speaks volumes for Porsche; the press is always yapping about “from Point A to Point B the Evo is the fastest car ever…”

I am severely in love with the new Evo X. It’s the Alcantara on the dash that puts me over the edge. Me must buy, me want.

By: meanpants555

meanpants555 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:18:21 +0000

A car below the Boxster/Cayman won’t happen. Their cars are already close in terms of performance. A car with Elise type performance below $50,000 would make their higher priced cars redundant.

By: YourNameHere

YourNameHere — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:16:34 +0000

my dad has a 944, its his baby. only has something like 38k miles on it. great car!

By: YourNameHere

YourNameHere — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:15:28 +0000

not to many ppl will cross shop an elise and a caymen…totaly diff kinds of cars for diff drivers. you couldnt drive an elise everyday where as the caymen would work just fine for daily transport. The car i want is the kind of car that sits in the garage until that perfect sunny day that you can go blast around on some back rounds someplace or take it to an autocross/track day. not really something you would want to take groccery shopping. that is sorta like saying the 911 will take away from cayenne sales because it has a back seat. two totaly diff cars to two totaly diff things

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:15:11 +0000

meanpants555,

I had a 944 n/a a couple years ago that I used to AutoX. In stock form R&T named it the “best handling production car in the world”, better than the Porsche 930s(911) of the time.
I had several suspension modifications on mine and know for a fact that if I still had it today, it’d run circles around my Evo. Great cars.

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:11:50 +0000

^ something to compete with the Lotus Elises/Exiges??
That’ll never happen in my opinion. It’ll take away the sales from the Cayman/Boxster.

By: meanpants555

meanpants555 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:10:53 +0000

I had a friend in high school, super rich kid, who went to Germany to pick up his 944 Turbo; it was an astonishing car. His mom drove a 928 and his dad a 911 with turbo body work, each one left you gobsmacked.

I limped along with parental left overs and eventually an RX-7. It was black with gold Epsilon wheels such was the way of the 80s.

By: YourNameHere

YourNameHere — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:08:55 +0000

a 30k Porsche will not “water down” the brand if done right. make it an affordable track car. no nav. no fancy options. a drivers car. Mid Engine, RWD, $30K, 6spd manual mmmm. this would not be a TT with a Porsche badge on it, this would be a hardcore car for enthusiasts. think elise/exige but built by Porsche.

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:06:39 +0000

One more thing I forgot to mention.

Why is it that everyone is worried about Porsche taken over VW? It should be a good thing actually for VW. Porsche already develops alot of components in their cars anyway. Porsche/VW/Audi have worked together several times in the past decades.
And why is everyone worried about the Bugatti Veyron being killed off? It’s not like any of you are going to buy one. LoL. Besides, a car like this you don’t want to overproduce. Where do you think the word “exotic” comes from anyway. I haven’t seen any exotics in a long time. They’ve all been overproduced and turned into “Sports cars” that every joe shmoe has.

By: Kendall Richardson

Kendall Richardson — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:03:33 +0000

——>Andre Neeves, i feel you, i feel you, tell ‘em!……….

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:02:29 +0000

Thanks!

By: meanpants555

meanpants555 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:02:14 +0000

A $30,000 Porsche with or without four wheel drive is called an Audi TT in VAG eyes.

By: meanpants555

meanpants555 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:59:49 +0000

Man that is such useful info bb_454. I like backing up statements with facts.

By: Andre Neves

Andre Neves — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:56:27 +0000

Stig,
What makes you think they would dump the Cayenne? I love when “internet enthusists” sit behind a computer and start assuming things and making ignorant commments. I know for a fact it is a successful model, we have a couple flying out the showroom floor at work every day.
peter g,
So you think Cayennes & Caymans watered down the brand? LoL your too funny. I drive these cars every day and I could tell you, a Cayman is as much of a sports car as the 911 is, just with less horsepower. Handling-wise the Caymans take the cake. The Cayman S & the Lotus Elise are one of the two of the best handling cars I’ve ever driven, and this is coming from someone who drives an Evo IX MR as a daily driver. Im not calling myself an expert or anything, but just don’t understand the dumb comments I see on this site sometimes.
Some here talk so negative about certain cars, never even coming near ‘em in their lives.
I also love how people look down on anything the Porsche releases other than a 911. Well guess what? They wouldn’t be around today if it weren’t for cars like the 914s/924s/944s/968s. That’s right, the most underated(by the 911 loyalists) cars they’ve ever produced. They saved Porsche in the 80s-early 90s from financial turmoil I myself have owned a 944 n/a and it was an amazing car with amazing capabilites.

Im sorry for the rant, it’s just that some people here need to get their facts straight before they start mouthing off about something they clearly know nothing about.
::puts flame retardant suit on::

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:40:03 +0000

Ok Im a huge GM fan, but the Corvette has never been known for fantastic quality, it’s better than it was in the past, but isn’t like its a Toyota or something. But here is JDPowers initial quality survey results. I think Porche was number one with only 91 problems per 100 units or something. So they don’t break down that often. Someone besides GM#1fan correct me if I’m wrong. http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2006082.pdf
So I’m not biased.

By: GMnumberone4ever

GMnumberone4ever — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:24:07 +0000

Porsche has a lot of work to do before they can match the Corvette. They have to work on reliability issues for one and build quality issues for another. Nobody wants an 80 thousand piece of **** that goes fast around the track but breaks down all the time. This is where GM’s wonderful vette shines. It’s quick, it;s durable and has a bulletproof reputation for reliability. They don’t break anywhere near as much as the Germans do.

By: bb_454

bb_454 — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:19:26 +0000

Corvette fuel consumption is about the same as a Porche, and they handle great as well. Pretty even match between the two, think the Corvette is faster but the Porche might handle a little better?