A Detroit magazine bashing an european car? Oh my god.

But still, I dunno, I haven’t bloody driven the thing. The MX-5 seems to be the same story, most people praise it but then there is that percentage that feels that the whole idea of the MX-5 is gone with mk3.

Seems like when there’s nothing to praise about GM cars, detroit magazine will try to criticize other car makers. First it was the toyota camary now it’s the bmw m5. Name 1 gm or ford car that performs better than the m5. How pathetic…

BMW is bringing a real manual over to appease US BMW enthusaists, so his gripe about the SMG at least didnt come from thin air.

ble ble ble
america
heh

BMW850…Corvette Z06, chief? And it can be had for tens of thousands less? Tell you the truth…I would much rather have 7.0l of pure American power than the V10 5.0l, simply because I like having torque…

I’m sure u’d enjoy it when the roof fall off your Corvette.

To each his own, mate. I’d also take a Mustang GT500 over an M5…although I wouldn’t mind driving a 550i. They simply compete at different levels. For a driver’s car, I’d rather have the Corvette. And yeah, I agree that the roof thing was a terrible blunder, but noone’s gotten hurt and GM’s taking care of it…and it won’t happen again.

of course you would take a gt500 over it, your blinded by patriotism. anyway isnt this old news i read something very similar to this months ago

I’m in India…

The Z06 and GT500 are sweet muscle machines (the former, of course, being a little more refined). I’d imagine the M5 is much nicer as a daily driver, however. Seriously, get a stick shift transmission on that anyway.

I think the detroit free press would benefit from teaching its writers how to drive before letting them loose with such vehicles

this guy is obviously biased towards ‘good ol’ american cars, he likes torque and cheap plastic, lots of noise and no meaning, BMW is the most profitable luxury car maker in the world, even if tasteless americans (i dont mean all americans, in fact, most americans like BMW’s, just not people like Phelan) think that BMW’s are badly designed and poorly engineered….the M5 and M6 are the market leaders in their segment in terms of performance (CLS has them beat ont he luxury). the M5 is a man’s car, when you want comfort and blinding speed you turn to an M vehicle….not to a GT500 with plastic you can peel away with your fingertips….

I’m sure he also justified Huffy bicycles when he wrote for the high school newspaper. YGTBFWM.

OK, he’s a little correct, my SMG sucks all the joy out of me, too. It is just a little hard to explain to the wife when I get out of the car by myself after a good spin. I’m beyond the thrill of matching a heel/toe downshift and relish the thought of an 80ms dowshift….

I’m always surprised at how much the domestics are put down by people on this site. I for one would never buy any foreign junk. I’ve had my share over the years of imports and they were no better than any domestic’s I’ve owned. BMW’s are overrated.

Not putting BMW down at all; my brother drives a 330i, and it’s definitely a fun ride, and feels incredibly solid, but I was just put off by how BMW850 claimed that no American car could equal the performance of the M cars, which simply isn’t true. Yes, muscle cars are more visceral, and a BMW would definitely be a better daily driver…as noone would ever call a Bimmer raw…

I was just sticking up for America because they don’t do everything horribly…of course, the only direct competitor that I can think of to the M5 is probably the STS-V and…I think it’s obvious that the BMW is a superior ride.

Just to clarify–the Corvette is a truer drivers’ car, and I don’t dislike BMW but I do find it ridiculous that everyone keeps on bad mouthing domestics because it seems like the fun thing to do.

“…I for one would never buy any foreign junk….” HAHAHAHA, most “foreign junk” have better reliability and quality than American brand cars. Smart American consumers do not purchase American cars. This is not bashing America in any way, I for one do think America has the technological expertise to make great cars, but they just do not have the philosophy. I mean hell, we can make rockets, and stealth bombers, why can’t we make a good car? Think about that.

“I mean hell, we can make rockets, and stealth bombers, why can’t we make a good car? Think about that.”

Hahaha. That is great! With few exceptions, American cars are fine transportation, bit hardly any have passion. Hell, the few american cars (aside from high buchkcas like the Vett and Viper) to recieve any sort of praise/win comparos have been Euro market cars brought over: Solstice/Sky, Focus, ….. hmmmm. … I guess that is it. And we don’t even get the fantastic C1 Focus here because of Ford’s fear of encroaching on its other brands. In 5 years, American cars will be the equivilant of Korean cars from 10-15 years ago.

Edit: Oh, and the DCX cars have been pretty good latley too. (Also w/ Euro infulence)

I thought BMW was trying to ‘push’ the SMG to keep warranty claims down on the manual model’s cluches burning out due to lack of talent by owners.

Unfortunately BMW is suffering from ‘label fame’ as a must have for wealthy folks reguardless of driving talent.

OPINION: don’t freak

Why are we turning this into a discussion about domestics? This isn’t another review from the Lienerts, either.

The point is, the M5 really needs a manual to “work”. Why don’t we turn this into a manual vs. auto discussion, like it really ought to be.

Craphead doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Having driven the M5, I completely agree with Mark Phelan. The jerky SMGII completely ruins the car.

problem is we need a better Automatic/Manual transmission as many people with money live by or near the city. They’d like to have pure sports cars to cruise around with and when the roads open up, switch to manual mode and have a FULL stick experience. Remember those pianos that have the keys moving by themselves? So why couldn’t there be this onboard computer on all manuals that would change gear by engaging the clutch and moving the stick. You would be able to see the parts moving. Then if you want, there would be a button on the wheel that would let you shut off the computer and you could take over.

Ruins the car? Come on!

Hey ADAM…hate to burst your bubble but the Solstice/Sky were designed in America, are built here, and now are starting to be shipped to Europe and Asia, being rebadged as Opels and Daewoos.

Why doesn’t BMW just negotiate with VW/Audi for the right to use their DSG transmission in the M5?

It’s been reviewed by many car enthusiast magazines as the best semi-manual transmission in the business.

The DSG does not come from VW/Audi, it comes from Borg-Warner (its called Dualtronic…do a google search on it) and last fall 2 unnamed European car manufacturers signed a contract with Borg Warner to start using it, so it may yet show up in BMWs. But it isn’t the SMG that has un-BMW’ed the experience, its Chris Bangle that has Camry-fied the BMW experience…especially the new 3 series. Volkswagen now has better interiors than BMW, isn’t that a joke?

sadly, i agree with madcapp for once. VW’s interiors (and audi’s they are the same damn thing) have always been consistent. then one year the new 3 series comes out and quality and design sucks ass. thats where VW’s comes out looking better despite no changes for the last decade. you win some, you lose some…

Well, I agree. Unless I buy the car to be a daily driver and am in gridlock in both rush hours, I’d prefer to row my own.

How typical that a few BMW folks can’t handle a little criticism. They’ll gladly acknowledge a compliment about a 3-series handling, or the power of the the bigger engines, but they take it so personally when someone brings up BMW’s miscues – the Bangle styling, iDrive, the SMGs.

Hey EM, I could be wrong, but the Sky borrows nearly every design cue from the Euro Vauxhall VX220, and the Solstice was based around the same model. Even if they were technically designed in the US, the model originated across the pond.

Unfortunately, you are wrong. The Vauxhall VX220 (also known as the Opel Speedster) has nothing to do with the Sky/Solstice twins, bar the fact they all lie beneath the GM umbrella. The VX220 was more or less a rebodied Lotus Elise, and was also built in the same factory. The Solstice/Sky is based on the GM-exclusive Kappa RWD platform and is brand-new.

The only thing that connects the VX220/Speedster and the Sky/Solstice is the fact that the Opel-badged Sky, the Opel GT, is the replacement for the Speedster, as far as I know.

Thank you and goodnight.

Yoon is completely correct. A quick check into the engine lay out is a dead giveaway. the vx220 is mid engine where as the sky/solstice is FR. That is a huge difference in the way the Chasis is designed. there might be certain visual designs on the exterior but that is the match the brand image.

Somewhat ironically, Porsche developed an iteration of the dual-clutch concept for race cars…the 962 had it in the 80’s. Yet they don’t offer it yet for the street.

Borg-Warner perfected it for the street, but they didn’t invent it.
I’ve read that Citroen had a setup similar to DSG over 70 years ago.

BMW apologists will say anything to defend their brand, it doesnt matter if something specific is inferior to another brand or not.
I still dont get why a BMW apologist thinks a BMW interior is any better than many, many other luxury cars out there, they are rank, and the Bangle-over-styling is gaudi at best for the most part, there is simply no reason for so many damn creases, curves and appendages (note the rear spoilers).
And it doesnt matter if Audi subcontracts their transmission out, though thanks for the histroical info Phil. They selected the best mechanicals for their buyers. BMW went it alone and came up with a not so hot product. But a BMW apologist will defend it, though many here have never driven an SMG from BMW… The Audi’s is infinitly superior.

I just recently drove an SMG-version of the M3 and realized that it is in total a completely different driving experience. I would get noone can say it is better or worse, it entirely depends on personal preferences.
Personally i loved it so much I would only consider getting an SMG/DSG version of a car if it is offered.

P.S I would guess though that this type os transmission would get quite boring on non high-performace cars…