theGriffon arguements quoted:

A) “Wagoner was asked to leave because of your attitude, not because of his performance, which the actual industry experts agree has been stellar.”

Since Wagoner took over in 2000, GM had 29% sales in the US, they’re now down to 21%.
Under Wagoner GM has not turned a profit since 2004
Under Wagoner GM has lost $82 BILLION in the last 4 years.

*** NOTE TO theGRIFFON, this recession with the banks was still at its PEAK during these times, so how can you blame its downfall on this current recession that began only months ago when clearly GM’s woe’s began long ago, and yes under WAGONER your so called “STELLAR” CEO.

check link for fact check
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2009/03/former_gm_ceo_rick_wagoner_mad.html

CONCLUSION: Blaming GM’s current situation solely on the banking crisis is a false arguement, GM was already losing its grip on its market share long before this current situation.

B) No market for EV’s

Lets just see what rules the next gen of cars. No market, you have your head up your own @SS so far you dont know what you’re talking about.
If there’s no market as yourself why is GM pushing the VOLT as its SAVING GRACE to keep GM alive? Please answer that question if there’s no market ? Why is TOYOTA and HONDA destroying sales in the HYBRID market. WOW I think you just really tried to sound smart, with idiotic arguements that sound like they came from GM headquarters.

Ohh plus watch the DOC, who killed the electric car, it shows clearly the GM intentionally insisted there were no lists of people willing to buy … yet the sales people involved had lists of thousands.

C) Toyota and Honda will fall like dominoes

Firstly, to compare these car companies to the BIG 3 (now small 3) is embarrassing. So your arguement is that all the car companies around the world are going to go bankrupt because of GM, Chysler and Ford going belly up … LOL omfg I dont know what kind of arguement that is. That doesn’t even make any rational sense. Toyota for one thing is MILES ahead of GM in its financial security, don’t forget they’ve been turning profits all of these years. How about VW, Audi and Porsche – they’ve actually been posting profits …

Wow, your arguement is known as the arguement fallacy “slippery slope” … Try to scare people into thinking all is going to disappear. So the only way your arguement proves correct is if nobody around the world buys any cars. Face it, after GM goes bankrupt that is 21% more market share for buyers that will be absorbed by Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW etc … The buyers are still out there, it is just who will get them.

D) I have an IQ of 140-160 … listen to me

That is the dumbest arguement I’ve ever heard. I have an MA behind my credentials, not some internet IQ test to back up your flimsy claim of knowledge, rationality and intelligence. So far you’ve been wrong on every single arguement posed at exactly what you say you’re good at “linking cause and effect”

WELL YOUR CAUSE and EFFECT of = GM going down because of this banking crisis solely

is NOT at all reality

REALITY IS GM has been on a downward spiral for years, if not the last DECADE and now this crisis has sealed their fate. For you to intentionally ignore that blatant FACT, is simply spinning your view to externalize GM’s downfall to the banking industry.

GM screwed themselves a long time ago, with a lack of vision.

But you would rather have a tax money sucking blackhole like GM… truly American. Sorry but whether it’s GM or Ferrari it’s a business. They’re out there to make themselves richer.

GM didn’t kill the electric car. CARB mandated electric vehicles, but did nothing to encourage people to buy them. GM, in good faith, and alone among the world’s vehicle companies, built a halfway decent model, and practically no-one wanted any. 300? Come one Tesla has already done better than that with a car half as sophisticated and much more expensive. When no-one else made enough of an effort, and buyers never appeared, CARB gave up, and GM quite naturally cut their losses.

The American auto industry is the last of the big industrial employers. Unlike other industries they didn’t fire everyone and move production off shore. As we speak, the Obama administration is still saying auto workers just need retraining. It hasn’t worked for anyone else whose factory job has been shifted offshore over the last 30 years. Why does anyone think it will work any better now? If they let GM dies, then Chrysler and Ford will follow, and then Toyota, and Honda, and Nissan, all like dominoes. It’s not like anyone else is making any money right now, and they’re all asking their governments for bailout money. Most will get it, no strings attached, because it’s not about “long-term viability”, or “picking winners”, it’s about keeping YOU in a job. If you, or congress, or the administration don’t really get that, then all I can say is, it’s sure going to suck to be you for the next decade. It already looks like the great depression is going to be a minor blip in comparison.

Now, let’s look, what has the task force said GM’s failures have been? Overestimating the possibility of a recovery in the market. Damn, and they were factoring in a pretty dismal market already. That’s bad, that’s really bad. Not restructuring debt. Apparently the finance companies, them again, won’t play ball. And they’re asking Wagoner to step down? Why isn’t every finance executive being taken outside and shot right now? Oh, wait, these are the guys on the auto task force. Finance guys. The ones who drove every other industry out of North America, destroyed the mortgage market, killed the economy, and you’re asking these guys to decide whether GM should get any money? If it wasn’t so tragic it would be funny. If you’re all not on prozac and zoloft to keep from shitting yourselves, you should be. I’m not even in the auto industry, and not even in North America, and I’m scared, really scared. But then I have an IQ in 140-160 range (not all tests are “normalized” to give the same results as other tests), and am pretty good at linking cause and effect well into the future.

GM had the future in their hands and instead of embracing it, they fought it, took back the cars from their leasee’s and CRUSHED THEM!

Chevy VOLT is a joke compared to their EV that was already developed! Ohhh, but wow who did they sell their BATTERY patent to ??? Yeah an OIL company ! Talk about sell-outs!

If GM was a highschool kid, after that move he’d be relegated to “loser” status and never talked to again by anyone with self respect.

It is so ironic that GM had the future of the car industry in their hands and they intentionally killed their own survival, in fact, they probably would have led the future of EV technology. Greedy, sneaky and short sighted vision ultimately led to their downfall! SHAME ON THEM! SHAME ON WAGONER!

*********************

Go ELON MUSK, go TESLA. Seize the day, seize the opportunity, revolutionize the industry! The world is finally waking up to the internet “mentality” of revolution against the old boys club! All the best to TESLA, I can’t wait for 2011 for the MODEL S to come on sale in Canada.

Shame on GM! Shame on WAGONER! With all the money he has, he still has no respect! It is a long and lonely life to live knowing that you FAILED at your job. A miserable failure and an embarrassing way to end a career. Your reputation will preceed you and I hope you go down in history as the villiage IDIOT who scrapped GM’s future.

SHAME to you and your family, you have lost face (the ultimate loss of honour)! If you were in Japan and had any sense of honour, respect for your family name – you’d commit seppuku! Embarrassing!

guys like this give a bad name to both america and businesspeople all over the world…

mayer_ray_nagin: Not just Obama’s crap. He also doesn’t have to put up being told what to do by the rest of federal government. Pelosi and Reid are just as bad.

SWEEEET!