One of the reasons they didn’t make this a Toyota is because Toyota has their own superstar coming down the pipeline.  Lexus too!

You didn’t think you would get the FRS, LFA, and that’s all?
Akio is sports car CRAZY!

If it’s sporty and sexy, he’s all for it.  He’d probably get pissed at you for not coming up with the idea sooner!

Akio is BOSS!
BD

First, a “Troll” calls it first. I’m afraid you are feeling butt-hurt over the fact that Toyota, and
apparently you, missed the point here. The idea of “Muscle Car Energy” was not a huge engined
car. Don’t ever think I am as stupid as you are. I may not be a fan of
most Japanese cars, or the companies that make them, but I am well aware of
them.

Second, I’m a FORD Man. But I am a Detroit booster. Even so, the Camaro5 is a better, more desirable car, than the GT-86/FR-S/BRZ will be. Then the all-new smaller Mustang and Camaro come out for MY2014 and the murder begins again.

Today, Toyota can not make a purpose made chassis, on its own. Although that did not stop them from making AWD Celicas in the early to mid-1990s, for Corolla platformed Celicas. Thus, Toyota missed a big opportunity to make a very desirable product and save costs at the same time.

It is common practice for drift racers to make a RWD Scion tC for a stock tC. Even manufacturing the car from scratch, Toyota could easily make minor modifications to the Corolla platform, nothing more than a new floor pan to allow for a RWD Coupe, not unlike making an AWD Celica. So you have a RWD Scion tC. Cost is contained with modifications to an existing platform and only minor parts development for RWD. Viola! RWD Compact that Toyota can easily produce on its own and write off if it failed.

Riding that “Muscle Car Energy” goes back to making what worked before but a modern version of it. The AE-86 is a RWD, compact, general-purpose, commuter car that was and is made into race cars. Not a very limited purpose sports car. This GT-86/FR-S/BRZ is just another car that will not capture imaginations and, thus, buyers. That imagination is not just going fast but to have a car that you can live with. Bumming you friend to use his larger car, for whatever reason, is not living well with it. It is not the car people will want. Especially those with delusions of “Initial D” (hence the sudden adulation for the AE-86).

This isn’t two years ago.

The BRZ will not have an AWD model. If you have been paying any attention to the engineering design of the car, there is no room for an AWD system. Subaru’s Symmetrical AWD needs a Front engine layout not the BRZ’s FMR. There is not room, on the chassis, for a Transfer case, return shaft, and Front drive parts, which would require Subaru to put down a huge sum of money to develop a totally new AWD system, which is not going to happen. This, given as Subaru and Toyota almost did not want to make the car because it would cost either, and then nearly even both, too much.

The RX-8 did have the problem of not having enough power. Something Mazda releasing a Turbo Version would have fixed. However, the purpose of naming the example was not that. The Purpose was that the RX-8 was supposed to be a shoe in, grabbing up those RX-fans easily and making a few more with the utility of an accessible back seat. Yet it did not. It, in fact, failed.

For what the RX-8 was, a base sticker of about $26K was a good price. Weight (around 3000lbs, light compared to others in the class), power (250hp/150lb-ft), even F/econ (A V8 Mustang also gets 25mpg) were not the main factors. The fact the car just was not what people wanted was the issue. Whatever the reason they give ultimately they did not want it.

A sports car is something you want, regardless of how fast is or is not,
or how expensive it is or is not. All that matters is if you want one.
The fact the car almost did not happen, means Toyota and Subaru know
this car is basically being sent out to die.

That is what will ultimately do in the FR-S/BRZ. Not enough people will want the car. Not the lack of weight or decent power. Just wanting the car. Many will be gravely disappointed that a turbo-four, in what is supposed to be a sports car, makes only 197hp. For the money, they will opt for a Ford Focus ST, Honda Civic Si, or a Hyundai Veloster Turbo.

Remember many who BOUGHT BMW 1-series thought the car was FWD and not RWD? At that size and smaller few prospect buyers will see the car as a RWD and fewer will care or worse refuse the car on that basis. You are your tuner-rabble kind have spent way too much time denigrating RWD to recant especially as the RX-8 failed, the 370Z is failing, and Toyota and Subaru could not make the FR-S/BRZ on their own, and all other Japanese RWDs are very expensive, luxury cars.

In consumer eyes, if the Japanese sports car is not at least relatively expensive, like the Imperza WRX ($30+K), Lancer EVO ($40K) the GT-R35 ($80+K) and the LF-A ($400K), it isn’t a decent car. They will go with American and European efforts and only Asian FWDs first.

That’s why I kept saying Toyota should have made a new Supra. A price step down from the LF-A. People would have wanted a range topping Turbo-6 or V8 Japanese sport coupe that cost about as much as and the size of the Mustang or, a bit more, the Corvette. The Supra has that kind of cache, too.

I know I would have wanted one.

Check out the 2012 Toyota GT 86. Much better interior. Scion…please go away! Just give us the Toyota version.

Here is how the BRZ will be more successful than the RX-8 and just successful period;

BR-Z/FR-S Base – From $21,995
197hp & 170 lb-ft from a 2.0L Boxer-4
RWD
2,690 lbs (like they say it is)
52/48 Weight Distribution (like they say it is)
17.3″ Center of Gravity (like they say it is)
32mpg Hwy

BR-Z WRX – From $27,995
265hp 2.5L Turbo Boxer-4 (hopefully a new 2.0 in on the way)
AWD
Under 3,000 lbs
54/46 Weight Distribution
17.5″ Center of Gravity
28mpg Hwy

BR-Z STI – From $34,995
305hp 2.0L Boxer-4
AWD
Under 3,000 lbs
54/46 Weight Distribution

17.5″ Center of Gravity
25mpg

I could see this as a real possibility.

The car itself is good, but they really should have given each version it’s own sheetmetal.  It was a plain and simple cost saving decision, which if often the result of committee design.

If they miss the price point, that will take the car down, and might take Scion down with it.

Scion needs a hit BAD!
BD

This car is not even close to what the Mustang/Camaro is.  It weighs almost a full 1000lbs and is 2 feet shorter.

This is a pure drivers sports car.  Not a muscle car.

Subaru says they used the Cayman and Evora in developing this car…

BRZ/FR-S
200hp & 2,700lbs = 13.5 lbs/hp
RWD
166″ in Length
52/48 Weight Distribution
17.3″ Center of Gravity

Cayman
265hp & 3,000lbs = 11.3 lbs/hp
RWD
172″ in Length
49/51 Weight Distribution
17.5″ Center of Gravity

Evora 2+2
276hp & 3,100lbs = 11.2 lbs/hp
RWD
170″ in Length
50/50 Weight Distribution
17.6″ Center of Gravity

And then these boats…

Mustang V6
305hp & 3,500lbs = 11.5 lbs/hp
RWD
188″ in Length
60/40 Weight Distribution
Appx. 22″ Center of Gravity

I expect the BRZ/FRS to be an EXCELLENT track car and will handle incredible.

Instead of thinking of it as an Asian muscle/pony car think of it as an affordable Cayman/Evora.

GM sold 20K Kappas a year and the number was going up, before the Govt shut down Pontiac and Saturn. If GM was able to keep Pontiac and make the rumored V6 Corvette Kappa, the “Stingray”, the car auto crits called “the one car that could unseat the MX-5/Miata”, a car even Keiichi Tsuchiya liked more than the MX-5/Miata for being a more powerful and easier to drive car, would be the car to beat today. Not the Miata as Toyota and Subaru will contend.

Just another “legendary car” no one will care to own and the companies can not afford to sell. Trying to ride the Muscle car energy, but missing the point almost entirely. It doesn’t matter how good it is, if not enough people want it to keep making them.

A RWD Corolla. How hard it that? Nothing insane. Just a RWD Corolla. Maybe rebody a coupe as a new RWD Celica/tC. Cheap, simple, easy to justify on the books, and lots of people will buy it.

The car will be a general sales flop and have only one model and that will be cut short to no more than a 3 year run, with less than 20K sold in the US in all.

Just another “legendary car” almost no one will care to own and the companies can not afford to sell. Trying to ride the Muscle car energy but missing the point almost entirely. It doesn’t matter how good it is, if not enough people want it to keep making them.

It is possible, you know……

Early reports from Fuji Speedway this week indicate they have succeeded
BD

Look for a turbo model to follow and an AWD model for the BRZ.

Is taht good enough for you…

Enough.

SHOW ME THE MONEY! Oh, and the stats, and lets have some auto journos flog it on a track and the open road and provide their opinion.

In a universe where the average youth buyer would prefer a used BMW and all the toys over a new Civic, the path of austerity that they are taking makes this even more niche.

GM had the Camaro and Firebird once upon a time, both based on the same platform, but at least each had its own identity and personality. 

badge engineering is, in my mind, when company (or division or brand) A designs and builds a car, but then the car is sold by company A and B with little modification…

in this case, company A & B designed and built the car…so it makes sense A and B sell the thing…it’s not badge engineering at all…it’s joint development…