Comments on: September sales results: Who’s up, who’s down

By: LJ

LJ — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:16:08 +0000

LJ Kia quality at honda prices?
Honda prices are too high for honda quality, and even too high for Kia quality

Comment by jackjimturkey

Yep.
I agree. I looked @ a Civic…. and No Options on any of the 3 model(versions).
Base…no A/C, etc… and it;’s nearly 16K.
Cruise? Go to the mid-level model(no options list) 17,500(give or take)….
Sunroof/cruise? Go to their top of the line model, around 19,300-19,500. Forgot if these are w/shipping charges, or not.
So, maybe a few hundred less than the Astra 3 door with automatic.
No… that’s crazy.

I thought it would be at least until 2015 before I saw Midsized sedan prices( from a few years ago) on compact cars/I-4 engined…nearly 20K MSRP.

I do recall, for example, over at Hyundai, they sold out their 06 Elantras(loaded up) for maybe 14,500…
and had base models for 11,999, automatic, on sale.
Now? You might be lucky to get an Accent for this price, on sale.
Like night and day, with one model year change.
Seems many are doing this…except Honda does not even give you options list.
Used to be one could get a mid-level car, with automatic, sunroof, etc… and not go broke, and the top models usually had leatherette, and 10 speaker stereos, etc..( stuff most people can live without).

Have a good week(what’s left of it).

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 21:26:36 +0000

LJ Kia quality at honda prices?
Honda prices are too high for honda quality, and even too high for Kia quality

By: LJ

LJ — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:15:41 +0000

Kia up, (7th or 8th month in a row of record sales months)…. funny, since they got here, they always have a record sales year, never down…in 13 years..is that a record of some sort?
From what I recall, last year, BMW barely beat Kia for 8th spot on sales chart in USA, and Kia was 9th, with Hyundai in 7th(as has been the case the past few years for Hyundai).
Kia may beat BMW for 8th this year….both companies having great year(and last).
Both should sell over 300,000+ units, if the their year-long sales trends continue.
Hyundai is still struggling to sell 500,000 units.
I read that they wanted 550,000 sales for 07, then Lowered that to 510,000(some guy recently quit, or was fired, name was White, iirc….at Hyundai, over this…top dogs in NA for Hyundai get the blame for low sales…they have already lost what, 2-3 top dogs for NA since 1999, due to sales issues?)….and from the YTD results, they may not even beat last year’s sales. I do not see them hitting 500,000 sales this year, even.
A few reasons: seems Elantra is now higher priced( 06 models..before sales, were what, under 14K to start, topped out around 16K….now they are what, topping out at 19K? No 8 way seats…but 13-16K Accent has them…makes no sense…. maybe why they are losing sales… higher prices, lower interior content, for one).Suzuki is doing ok, for Suzuki.
Problem is… will people go for their SX4 sedan over the Reno/Forenza(GM-DAT) cars?
33% of volume of their sales are from Reno/Forenza..has been for awhile now(was over 40% of their sales at one point, iirc, in 06).
18K for a SX4 sedan…no fold down rear seats, FWD only,
no sun/moon roof options, no height/lumbar/any adjustments(besides 4 way…back-forth, and fold seat backs up/down), no center console/armrest/storage area….
143HP, 31MPG with automatic. SX4 Sport, they call it.
160HO, 2.4 L I4 31-34MPG.. all the stuff I mentioend above missing from SX4 sedan…is in the tC, and reclining rear seats, for maybe 300-400 dollars more
I see a problem, Suzuki.
This car reminds me of the 91 SE-R(probably not as fast, or fun…haven’t tested one yet), no fold down rear seats/adjustments of seat, no center console, no reclining rear seat backs…(like tC has)….
That car was 14K for automatic(around 93, when we looked at one)….the SE-R….
iff this were 1991….and 14K, Suzuki might have something here.
It’s 07….so…what’s the deal?
Selling Kia quality at Honda-like pricing?
Sorry…. if they want more than 100,000 sales annually, they had beter hold the line on MSRPs, and add more content…to all their future vehicles, including the Kazashi, or they will never “run with the big boys”.
I don’t know about these guys.
Did hear a hatch SX4 is coming…hope they hold the MSRP down, content up….(as an 09…dealership said they heard march… or sept…not sure, always hear different things, he said).Inlaws have the CUV SX4… excellent vehicle,fwd/awd….16K.
This FWD should be no more in MSRP, and have content.

Sorry to rant… hate to see Suzuki go form good, reasonable prices, and think raising prices to Honda levels, on Kia quality(and less content than a Accent, even)….will = 250,000 sales per year, from 101,000 last year.

take it easy . have a good week.

By: tppp

tppp — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:55:37 +0000

Driven, right on, I see now what you are saying. Now that Toyota has a entered the profitable full size truck market and is having success is just more bad news for the other automakers.

By: Driven

Driven — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:10:57 +0000

commodore, thats good info. thx.
tppp, my loosing money scenario was an example of why sales alone isnt the entire picture. I wasnt stating dodge was loosing money on each vehicle. I randomly picked two brands as an example of how sales can look good while profitability & the company can still be in trouble. Your example numbers are exactly why I was asking about profit per vehicle as that combined with sales figures is a better judge of an improving or declining company. Sales figures alone can be misleading when discussing the overall health of a company.

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 17:39:40 +0000

That’s why he ain’t in here

Robert: what do you do?

By: HoosierHero

HoosierHero — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 15:22:20 +0000

Good eye Ahura lol. Ford is still restructuring and will take a couple more years of losses to get in order. I’m surprised at GM though. Good job. I guess GM_SALES has been doing his job lol.

By: Ahura

Ahura — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:48:26 +0000

A Mazda3 is used as a picture for this news but no news about Mazda?????

By: tppp

tppp — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 14:13:26 +0000

Driven- The Dodge truck carries a heavy rebate sure but I question the statement you made they “lost money on each vehicle.” Do you realize the profit margin they on these trucks? Why do you think Toyata wanted in on the full size truck market so bad? Profits! The average sticker price of the popular selling extended cab 4×4 trucks are easily priced at $40,000 and above, with crew cabs models stickered out for $45,000 to $50,000, way overpriced if you ask me by the way. But I think they can afford a $5,000/ $6,000 rebate and still make money. In fact they probably still make more money on trucks than say something like a car with a $1,500 to $2,500 rebate

By: CHEERSNGEARS

CHEERSNGEARS — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:03:55 +0000

Ford might as well pack it up and go home. They’re finished.

By: maximus

maximus — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 13:00:07 +0000

Altima is 46% higher, no surprise there, it is a slick car.

By: CHEERSNGEARS

CHEERSNGEARS — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 12:57:14 +0000

QX is up? Who’s buying those piles?

By: Get Real

Get Real — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:59:38 +0000

Old Mustang ????

It’s the only car keeping Ford alive.

I’m waiting a few years to find a nice old man selling a used GT he used for week-end drives.

By: WEKS

WEKS — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 11:03:45 +0000

Looks like the imports are on a roll.

By: Fletch

Fletch — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 09:38:40 +0000

I think the Fit is an attractive car. Economy, cargo room, decent handling and it’s not a goofy hybrid.

By: Veda

Veda — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 07:58:37 +0000

Yearly country sales goes up and down. It’s the market percentage for each brand that I’m interested in.

By: A4

A4 — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:42:13 +0000

viva la Ram and QX56!

By: Commodore

Commodore — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 05:06:11 +0000

LLN – Are you sure Toyota isn’t down 4% instead of .9%? That’s what other sites are reporting.

Driven – to answer you, Toyota’s marketshare is down a coupe .10s of a percent so it’s basically the same (thanks to the fact that Ford lost quite a bit of theirs), but GM actually gained market share and so did Honda.

By: Driven

Driven — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:47:51 +0000

I dont see the Toyota news as all bad. They had less than 1% decline when compared to their best September ever (9/2006). I wonder how this September fairs when looked at Toyotas historical norms. They also the best Sept sales ever for 5 of their more popular models.

It would be interesting to see the latest market share information as compared to this time last year. That is the true sign of one company taking business from the others.

By: TOZO

TOZO — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:25:27 +0000

Where’s that 1492GM sales guy? It’s his day to shine. Well, I’ll fill in kinda: GM is up! Toyota down, suckers! I told you so. Ha ha ha ha ha ha (something like that) Chewed up Toyota’s market share and spit it out! THe otthr companies do not stand a chance!

By: Driven

Driven — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 01:30:35 +0000

Sales numbers can be misleading when looked at in a vacuum. They must be looked at in conjunction with other figures. It would be interesting to see the amount of profit made per vehicle as compared to the same time last year. As Robert hinted some vehicles could be sold for very little profit or even a loss depending on their discounts. Who cares if Dodge sales were up 5% if the discounts on the vehicles actually mean Dodge lost money on each vehicle. A .9% decrease in Toyota sales could have produced more profit per vehicle than the 5% increase for Dodge.

By: Robert

Robert — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 01:08:36 +0000

The discounts on the Ram have just been massive. You can buy a $35,000 Ram for $22,000 at the local dealer. It was no surprise how much it sold.

GM had a solid month. It’s new trucks are finally picking up some steam.

Adjusted, Ford was down 17%, primarily due to F-series and the dead Taurus, old Mustang and Explorer. Everything else looked ok, not great (except the Edge, Escape and Fusion, which had good months for them), but ok.

This is probably the last month of CRV YOY increases, but the new Accord should help Honda offset that just in time.

Toyota was ok, but I’ve seen tons of trucks loaded with Corollas at the rental agencies everytime I go – that new 2009 Corolla can’t come fast enough for them. Some weakness in their older lines, but nothing terrible overall.

One more note. George Pipas mentioned in the sales call that Ford lowered its incentive spending $1200 this month – their largest drop so far this year. I’m curious what other automakers did, because that may explain some of the massive drop-off at Ford. They may need to adjust that line of thinking a little for Q4.

By: 1c3d0g

1c3d0g — Wed, 03 Oct 2007 00:18:56 +0000

Glad to see the RAM still kicking some ass. It’ll be interesting to see who wins the performance crown in the medium-duty Diesel segment (F-250, RAM 2500 or Sierra/Silverado 2500).

By: jackjimturkey

jackjimturkey — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:45:22 +0000

Lambo: Fit might be honda’s best car. And it uses almost no gas.

By: LamborghiniZ

LamborghiniZ — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 23:39:46 +0000

Why on earth is the Dodge Ram increasing in sales? That monster should be dying, not breeding. The QX56 shouldn’t be increasing in sales either, what the hell.

A strange month really, with Fit sales up so high, as well as those monstrosities mentioned above gaining in sales as well.

By: sharpie

sharpie — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:58:46 +0000

So there is light at the end of the tunnel for Mitsubishi!

By: christianboy10

christianboy10 — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:23:06 +0000

honda is doing it. way to go honda

By: Commodore

Commodore — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:23:21 +0000

GM up 4%???????!

By: autonut

autonut — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:16:32 +0000

This is a copy of my 2 cents on previous article about September sales.
GM showed great resilience this month. With any luck their story will look better as time goes on, especially if Saturn cars will regain their reliability status. The problem is that the market is primed for cars now because of rise in gas prices (Honda and Nissan sales up). GM is taking wind from Ford with newer trucks especially with really expensive ones (with reliable diesel engines). I think it is a limited market for now since construction is not on the rise.

By: Jazz

Jazz — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:15:13 +0000

21% down for Ford and 5% down for Chrysler? Methinks
Ford is hurting more than Chrysler now.