The title should read:
News: Ford, GM use bailout money for phony quality study!

Last time I heard Ford didn’t receive bailout money. Nice try though.

HoosierHero: Good point.
Stinky007: They also don’t talk about the 25BIL that toy-yo-DAA got from japan to build cars in the U.S.

But more important is what is 111FAG going to say about this to spin it in his favor?

“Things gone wrong in the first three months” is now the only determinant of quality?

No, it is not.

“Overall satisfacton” is obviously the figure you want to be looking at here, which puts Honda and Toyota in the lead. Winning that one critera doesn’t mean you are surpassing in quality OVERALL.

unfortunately, I have to agree with shane train. I would look at overall satisfaction and “things gone wrong” at 100k miles. But, this is a good start. I would argue that Ford and GM are miles ahead of their percieved quality even a few years ago.

Overall satisfaction and overall quality are not the same thing. Don’t take this study out of the context it was intended for. It was intended to find out whether the vehicles are causing headaches for people or not.

However, 3 months is hardly a long time for a vehicle. Most people will put between 3,000 and 5,000 miles on their vehicles. My Aura was running like a BMW for the first 5,000 miles, and then at around 8,000 it started developing braking and suspension “comfort” issues. It rode completely differently at 8,000 than it did at 5,000 (and not in a good way).

Once Ford/GM start beating Toyota and Honda at 1 year/20,000 mile studies, then there’s an achievement. But at least they’re making progress.

Road_AMS- No doubt it’s a good sign for American automakers, I’m not trying to knock them or anything, they’re making progress. What more can I ask for? But if they lie to themselves and pretend they’ve gotten to the level Toyota and Honda are at already, they could stop improving their products, and that’s the last thing anyone wants.

I don’t want to see imports win, or domestics lose, or any of that BS. The only reason I’m buying another Toyota for my next car is because I’m happy with the one I have now, and there’s no reason to take a risk when I have something that works for me.

I definetely give them a pat on the back for coming this far, but keep the champagne corked, or you’ll start to get lazy.

It sounds to me like Need More Oil For GM has switched screen names and is now focusing more on Cadillac. He’s also gotten more sarcastic.

More on topic though: I find it hard to believe these surveys. Wasn’t there one last year that said Buick was the most reliable marque? How is this possible? I’ve been to carlots six times over the past 18 months looking for new and slightly used (2-3 years old) cars, and American cars have had poor build quality. Interiors that feel flimsy, hollow and cheap and body panels prone to dents and dings.

A friend of mine has a Ford Mustang GT. He’s had four interior bits break in the first two years. That’s good quality? My Mazda 3’s never had a single problem in a year of service each.

Something seems odd about the quality surveys.

Shane, this is only one catagory. While not the title you want, it’s a start. Gotta start somewhere.

Ed103- Your point about the Mazda 3 vs. the Mustang made me laugh a little bit. That’s one of the issues with American carmakers, they’ve never used their resources properly. Ford owned Mazda, if they noticed that the interiors were nicer, why not just ask for a hand from them with it?

Jon Luc- that’s what I’m saying, man. It’s progress, but there’s no reason to flaunt this like you’re out of the woods already, know what I mean?

I’m happy for them but it’s not celebration time yet. They’ve still got a bit more uphill ahead.

Stinky007= Douchebag

Well now we all know NOT to trust JD Power and other independent surveys. Good job Ford!

All domestics have come a long way; just like Hyunda has.

I still see tons of people buy/drive European cars, which have horrible reliability compared to the domestics and atrocious reliability compared to the Japanese.

Right now, it’s a stigma to own an American-made car, which is quite a shift in the past 20 years.

It’s more cool to drive a Hyundai than a Chrysler…that’s sad.

LOL a Michigan based research group huh
please Nice try Ford and GM but we all know that Toyota and Honda are the better vehicles

This study actually shows that Ford and GM surpass Toyota and Honda by a large margin because this study excludes the first “thing gone wrong” for every Toyota/Honda owner – namely that they bought a Toyota or Honda to begin with.

Don’t get me started on them over sized cars(In a bad way) from Buick.And I’m happy Ford is stepping up because i like the way there cars drive and feel better than a boring Honda. Can’t wait till the S H O comes out!!!!!!!

mayer ray nagin- I guess that is the wrong thing to do, because it will last you so long you might miss out on the improvements of future models.

That’s what my car’s been doing for 20 years, you drooling idiot.

Is this the same company in the Ford commercials that say Ford is “unsurpassed” ???The best part is the idiots like FAGGY V who actual take this study seriously

this is the kind of crap posted just to incite forum rage…nothing legit to see here…move along…

All I can say is get used to this sh*t. They have to keep pumping this drivel into the public psyche to try and undo the damage decades of producing crap caused in the first place. See it for what it is, a thinly veiled attempt at brainwashing, and that’s fine. Most people are stupid and if they hear something often enough eventually they’ll begin to believe it.

In the 2008 J.D. Power Initial Quality Study from last June, the problems per 100 were: Mercury 109, Honda 110, Ford 112, Lincoln 115, Acura 119, and Volvo 124.

My personal experiences kinda confirm this. I’ve owned several Honda (well, Acura) products, and now have a Mustang GT in the stable.

Over 3 years, it has been 100% reliable, and as worn very well, though two minor interior bits had to be repaired (under warrantee). If Ford has made any strides in quality in the past 3 years, I would believe that they’ve achieved parity with Honda.

I haven’t owned a GM product for over 18 years, so I can’t comment on their quality.

Yeah, I got burned for saying Ford got bailout money.
Still, I wouldn’t trust their “internal benchmarking”…

Johnny is right, how many republican’s still think Saddam and Iraq were responsible for 911?

Bubs, about the same number as the number of democrats that still think Obama doesnt have his head up his sochialist äss.

Yeah I misspelled that on purpose to circumvent the filters on this site.

Hey how many people think
Osama bin Laden is real
LHO killed JFK
and SS killed RFK
America is a gr8 country indeed

anything internal needs to be taken with a grain of salt. At the same time though it must be conceded that Ford had made great strides in improved quality recently. Evidence of that is in the amount of fewer warranty costs in 2008 verses 2005 1.2 billion worth of savings. That being said in 2006 Ford’s increased it’s power train warranty to 5yr/60000 miles on the top selling F150 the Super Duties Escape and all other trucks and SUVs. So kudos to Ford for the great strides so far… and perhaps real soon Ford will be on par with the best.

LOL MY moms Honda has never had a problem. Therefore Hondas are perfect. LOL Youve been owned. LOL My dad doesnt love me. LOL

Like some people have said already, this is just one type of study. They have a ton of them looking at everything from initial build quality to quality over the life of a particular generation. I think these are all important as 1. I don’t want to buy a clunker right off the bat, especially when it’ll depreciate 30% when I leave the lot and 2. I also don’t want a car that hasn’t improved in quality over the lifespan of that particular generation. If a car gets worse as it goes along then avoid it!

While i can believe ford deserves to be in second place, GM is definitely on there because they have less problems! They have problems that the dealers simply say, “this functions as was intended by the manufacturer”. honda and even ford at least try to get rid of their small problems. GM just tries to make a sale on a car, the rest is history! they don’t care about the customer after that!

Honestly . . . it’s amazing how many people on this site seem to think their estimation of quality is the be-all-end-all and “laugh” at the experiences of others. It’s one thing to say: this is what I experienced and it counterbalances your experience. It’s another thing altogether to say: Everyone KNOWS what you say is WRONG and here’s my example that “obviously” proves it.

My experience with Honda is that their interiors don’t compare to the comforts of American cars. And the Hondas my family has owned have all failed in some major way within months of ownership whereas the few American cars we’ve had are still kicking and are well into the hundreds of thousands of miles. That’s just my experience. I don’t get it when people say everything in American cars “feels like cheap plastic.” I’ve ridden in those family-owned Hondas and they’ve felt no different than our American cars.

I really don’t get why people expect so much comfort from their car. As others have pointed out the percentage of income it takes to purchase a car has dropped DRAMATICALLY in the last 30 years. We’re all paying a SMALLER percentage of our income for a car, but are expecting MORE. That’s not inherently wrong, but when people vocalize their complaints so much . . . it’s just kind of whiny . . . Do any of you really appreciate how amazing the cheapest vehicles we have now actually are? How utterly complicated the manufacturing processes are? How challenging the economic conditions are? Anyway, I’m ranting, but I just thought I’d remind ya’ll that driving a Ford does not make someone “an idiot” because “everyone KNOWS” that Hondas are just SOOOOOO much better. Drive your Hondas. No one will think you’re stupid for doing so.

I’ve checked out and driven my father’s new Accord V6 Sedan. Honestly I’m not impressed. The car has less than 40,000 miles on it and the rotors have already had to be turned twice, the “active noise cancelling” system is on the fritz making all kinds of funky bass noise and the dealer can’t fix it, the car doesn’t even have automatic headlights! Also, when you slide the shifter down from P or R into Drive it stops at D3 (no overdrive) and you have to push it back up to get into regular Drive… so you end up riding around with the overdrive off half the time, which kills your fuel mileage.

I think Honda has gotten complacent over the past 5 years, and the current generation of their automobiles is not on par with cars being made by GM, Ford, or Toyota. They need to watch out, because once the American Lemmings figure this out people are going to start buying something else.

FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…FORD No. 1,…..

ALL YOU HATERS CAN GO AND SUCK A BIG ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don´t even need to read past the title,i just know it´s false

We just bought a brand spankin new Ford! Wanna guess what it is?? here are some clues. we were looking for something that was decent on gas, and an overall great value. We were comparing it too the corolla and civic. Still don’t know??? We bought a new ‘09 Ford Focus SES…. proud to support FORD!!!

The civic was way to slow on the throttle…damn v-tec engines. it felt like we were driving a tractor.
the corolla was too dull and boring to drive, the steering felt dead, the brakes felt as if it wasn’t actually stopping the car(compared to the other 2 because this was the last car we saw/drove).
Ford- good looking interior/anti-boring! Better steering, looks a LOT better, better wheel package. Newer than the rest. overall a better value! Thats why we got one!

“…Michigan-based…”
“The study was commissioned by Ford for internal benchmarking, not marketing purposes.” that was a good one!

“See it for what it is, a thinly veiled attempt at brainwashing, and that’s fine. Most people are stupid and if they hear something often enough eventually they’ll begin to believe it.”

Kind of like the majority of mainstream media reporting on every scrap of negative news they can find about the D3, whilst passing on the same kind of lead about import companies whenever possible? Yeah, I agree. For the D3, it doesn’t matter how good their products get. They still have to fight the brainwashing going on every day that continues to tell the public that they’re making Corsicas and Escorts still.

The big problem with studies like these is that a “thing” is a “thing” so a transmission breaking in a Ford is the same as a piece of loose trim on a Honda. And I have to wonder how they choose the purchases to include . No one has every contacted me after I gave a poor review on the Ford dealer survey – I had 4 “things” go wrong in the first three months (one was the transmission) and 4 more in the next three.

“the RDA group is paid to produce accurate results” well duh!

I currently own both a Toyota and a Chevy. The Toyota has had many problems. The headlights, the a/c, warped brakes, etc. The Chevy has had…none. The Chevy is a 2001 and the Toyota is a 2003. Not to mention the Chevy gets so many more miles per year.
On top of that I go on lots of trips and rent lots of different brands. What have I discovered? Every American car I rented was good. Those are Fords, Pontiacs, Chevys, etc. But cars like the Nissan Altima, a car that people like to say is better, is a piece of junk.

people are so biased with overall satisfaction… my friend has a jetta and **** goes wrong with it all the time, the glove box got jammed closed, fog lights just fell out while driving, sun visor is loose and just swings down on the passenger side, etc… where my truck needs a new accessory belt and he says its a **** GM/ domestic vehicle.. sometimes people are just looking for something to go wrong
pretty much no matter what goes wrong with his jetta, he still thinks its top notch king ****

i guess to each their own, but anyone looking for a car shouldnt look at overall satisfaction in their buying decision.

“Interest in Honda still surpasses Ford/GM”

I almost believe the report. We’ve only bought Toyotas and Lexus the last 15 years and the two recent ones show serious signs of cost cutting in many places with more service visits than has been the norm. We’re seriously thinking of buying American the next time (if the dealerships aren’t still dumpy and overrun by kids)

depends on which model…….don’t tell me Aveo is better quality than Civic….I will laugh to death.

On the other hand….Ford is trying very hard to get better quality…and it seems the hard work has paid off!

Johnny Canuck – “Most people are stupid and if they hear something often enough eventually they’ll begin to believe it.”

You mean like the vast majority of American consumers who believe nothing but “imports are flawless, domestics are junk?” Like you?

This forum cracks me up. The fools that argue about what brand of car is better is all a bunch of marketing hype that only exists as a fancy sales pitch. What the hell is wrong with people? Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan for examples are products assembled for mass production. Each individual unit is going to have it’s own integrity and unique flaws. Each is a “copy” meaning that variations always will have to exist. Ever notice that when you scan or photo copy a document that it comes out different despite how good those ink cartridges and photo paper claim to be? The same idea there. C’mon, what, you honestly think $30,000 cars are hand made and hand assembled pieces of art polished to perfection? Even in a $200,000 Ferrari, where such a notion exists, there are flaws that protrude regardless of who builds it. There is no such thing as a perfect car. It’s called wear and tear. If you claim your car is problem free, you are smoking crack.

Granted, there are things called cost of ownership. The average required maintenance costs count, big time. Forget the perception that a Camry or Accord is the cheapest car to own over the 100,000 mile duration, because it isn’t. Ever heard of a timing belt job? Those are factory amended service intervals that have catastrophic results if neglected. Those particular cars have what they are called interference valvetrains. In a nutshell, the valves bend from hitting the pistons when the camshafts jump time due to timing belt failure, thus needing a $1300 valve job. This happens to many unsuspecting owners, more often that you think. Keep in mind that you have to remove the cylinder head(s) inorder to perform such a labor intensive repair. A proper timing belt job hovers around $600 to $800 and consists of the belt itself, water pump, tensioner, camshaft seals, crankshaft seal, and about 6 hours of labor via Mitchell On Demand. On some certain import nameplate cars the timing belt job calls for extra parts such as a balance shaft belt, crankshaft position sensor, or camshaft position sensor compound the dollars because they are located in the timing cover area. So much for that nice fit and finish of your Japanese quality dashboard right?

Now let’s talk about my Oldsmobile Bravada, a domestic SUV that is beyond extinction, just like GM’s financial salvation. The vehicle has about 128k miles currently. Cosmetic workmanship and materials are a abomination to mankind. Every single control arm bushing squeak, door panel rattle, and stabilizer link clunk has rear its ugly head. It annoys me. The engine has a metal timing chain designed to last for the lifespan of the powertrain. My 4L60E tranny is one of the luckier production units, escaping the common sunshell failure with proper fluid exchange as per recommended (my 2003 TrailBlazer clone wasn’t so lucky). The Bravada’s most costly repair is the evil thermal fan clutch, a $200 part at Autozone and 1.5 hours of my time.

Hope this educates consumers on how car quality should be define.

CZSS, hardly. Actually you’re right and you’re wrong. Where you’re correct is that the majority still do believe exactly what you say. Where you’re wrong is believing they’ll figure out it’s no longer the truth on their own.

Aren’t you Canadian? tisk tisk, CZSS.

Take it with a grain of salt

Amazing. If the headline was “Study: Ford, GM Still suck”, you wouldn’t bother reading it. Let alone comment on it. I have quite a while. And I have seen such a deteriation of american culture. We have gone from John Wayne to Kanye. And frankly right now I have to agree america is in a steady decline. The attitude that everything american sucks proves it. Self loathing is what it is called. People spend way too much time debating the quality of american versus import brands. Buy what you like and shut up about it.