Yes, but for how long will the big 3 employ American autoworkers? With the speed at which they are closing plants, I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota surpassed them in 10 years time.

Jon.

I think you fail to see how many engineering jobs are supported as a result of the big 3, even without the big 3 plants in the US. Most of the economy in southeast michigan is driven as a result of the big 3.

I am really sick of all this “toyota is the greatest thing since sliced bread” talk. They have the same issues as anyone else, they just seem to fly under the radar when they have problems, which is awful fishy

GM directly or indirectly employs, what, 1.5% of the US workforce?

Americans who wish for the demise of the US auto industry don’t realize the catastrophic consequences that would result. Even if you don’t work in the industry, you will be affected.

Far better to hope that they can turn the corner and start building better products, as it appears they are doing of late.

I’m not saying I don’t want the American auto industry to succeed, not at all. Merely think their entire ‘turnaround’ plan is a joke and the fact that they let things get this far is an even bigger joke, on the American worker and the American spirit. At the same time, making reality shows regarding car deigns is going to help Ford turn around like Mercedes is going to win Lemans by making every car they enter in a race crash before they finish.

Instead of selling us with the ‘confidence’ we should have on the American auto industry, they should focus on actually making great automobiles. You can’t merely sell on the fact that you say you make great automobiles; you actually have to make them. Consumer products aren’t abstract ideas; they are physical, tangible items. The sooner the car companies realize this, the better off they will be.

Jon.

US auto industry in is the toilet for ONE reason ONLY .. UNIONS, the big three pay the most money both retierment and working, to the least educated , least motivated, least skilled work force in the world. they would be better off hiring child labour in China.. they would get better results and a better product.
A less significant, due only to the enormity of the above issue, is the designers and sales who can take a car design and stupify it to the point where ANY driving experience is gone. Seriously the big three should just start making 2 ton fluffy beds on computer controlled suspension that floats you over the road driven by a big gas guzzeling V8 or V10 if you feel the need to be really ‘rah rah USA’, controlled by computer steering that allows the poorest driver the confidence to excced thier abilties, there by causing an accident with another 2 ton bed where they can no both call for help with thier babysitting ‘ blonde star’ service.

Nobody wants the US auto industry to fail. I would be more than happy to drive an american car before a japanese, german or korean car. In fact, I have done so in the past. I bought a Ford car in 1995, and had a LOT of trouble with it. Parts falling off, constant recalls, automatic transmission that threw itself into neutral at random times, idiotic interior dimensions (had less rear-seat legroom than a camaro, and it was a 4-door), and that doesn’t even include the crappy dealer. This all happened between 0 and 35,000 miles, at which point I sold the piece of junk. Then I bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee. It burned oil, got terrible gas mileage, the air conditioner broke all the time, the interior smelled like sweaty genitalia, the CD player broke, it had a short that ran the battery down, and in general was a pain to own. My experience with American cars lasted about 4 years, starting in late 1995 and ending in early 2004.

In 1993, I bought a 1993 Mazda pickup. I still own it, and it has 180,000 miles on it. I have replaced the front brake pads, spark plugs, air filter, muffler, and a parking light bulb. That is ALL (aside from regular oil changes). I own an Acura integra. I have replaced the clutch master cylinder, replaced a missing bolt on a hose clamp, and put a K+N air filter in it. That is ALL. My “new” family car is a Toyota 4Runner. I have had it for 2 years, and have had the tires balanced. That’s ALL.

American carmakers may employ far more than the other companies, but there’s apparently no correlation between the number of people working on something, and the quality of the end product.

Until American cars stop being a joke, I will buy my stuff from elsewhere.

Maybe the commercials should also inform us how the Big Three has parts made in Mexico and China.

parts may come from elsewhere… but does that change the fact that US automakers employ 8 of 10 autoworkers in this country? nope.

Reminds me of modern-day Rolls-Royce. Sure, the cars are ‘made in England’, but made, how exactly? Well the finished engine, body, and transmission is shipped from Germany, as well as all the parts for the interior, save for a few pieces of wood and a few other miscellaneous items. Every thing is the assembled in England, and you get an ‘English’ car. Although you don’t really get an English car, do you? You get a German car put together in England, not quite the same thing, is it?

Ian, what do you think a Cadillac is? It’s a 3-½ ton V8-powered bed with air suspension, On-Star and absolutely no driver’s feel. Seriously, my Audi (a company which is known to have a ‘dead steering’ feel) is a Ferrari compared to a Cadillac.

Jon.

The ads supporting the Big Three are right on point. Nonetheless, the best advertisement is a world class product. All of the Big Three have world class products (Ford Fusion, Cadillac Escalade, Chrysler 300), but there remains too many gaps in their collective portfolios. Chrysler is the best, GM will be seriously world class within a year and Ford is not far behind.

“You can’t merely sell on the fact that you say you make great automobiles; you actually have to make them. ”

Completely agree.
For years, GM blamed the marketing, not the product. We saw 10x more new marketing campaigns for basically unchanged product.

I think things are FINALLY changing…but you are correct that it never should have gotten this far in the first place.

The domestics had the market to themselves for years, but they got fat and negotiated labor contracts that assumed the gravy train would never stop. They are now paying the price for their hubris.

Let’s all hope it’s not too late.

It is a RIGHT, not an OBLIGATION to buy from Detroit automakers.

Welcome to America, enjoy your stay.

This unconditional love for Toyota is naive. If the Kings Of The East blow their screws and try any hostile manouvers, your priorities will change. The yellow man wants your money AND your land. That’s all it is about. Give them an inch, they’ll grab it all. “VERY COMPETITIVE”, my Chinese girlfriend emphasized.

An oriental chap of whom I worked with told me, “America is chicken feed”, meaning that everything here is theirs for the taking. This man also told me that East Asians do not believe in playing. AT ALL. Their philosophy is to work essentially 20 hours a day, make money, money, money, set yourself up or whatever, and THEN you can do stuff that is enjoyable. In this country, that is. Set themselves up here.

you know why domestic auto makers employ 8 out of 10??? because of UNIONS. you dont think if ford and GM could layoff tens of thousands that they wouldnt??

Jake what makes the 300 such a world-class product?

Jon.

“…… told me that East Asians do not believe in playing. AT ALL. Their philosophy is to work essentially 20 hours a day, make money, money, money..” Down: did they also tell you that the Bosses don’t treat themselves like the President of Exxon.

Their companies are not run as: Us and Them. You don’t see a Flint (Michael Moore’s movie set..) where the workers live and Gross Pointe were the Dons live.

The future of the auto industry is a shadow of the steel industry. The Steel Barons looted the assets rather than investing in new mills, the unions were hung out to dry and the taxpayer got stuck with the bill – while the Barons moved to Hilton Head and Naples to live out a quiet life of luxury.

j i m

Mr. Look Down…..I’m sure that man represents EVERY “oriental” as well. It looks like you need to be a little less racial…..you Honky.

“In 1993, I bought a 1993 Mazda pickup. I still own it, and it has 180,000 miles on it. I have replaced the front brake pads, spark plugs, air filter, muffler, and a parking light bulb. That is ALL (aside from regular oil changes).”

You own a Ford Ranger. Sorry to break it to you. That reliable pickup of yours is American.

All the east cares about is getting your money, they will continue to compete until all others are dead, then, when they have control of everything, you will pay dearly. Don’t fool yourself and say it isn’t true. The only reason they build cars here is the monetary advantage vs. importing. It is cheaper to ship the cars here in parts and have assembled here, it has nothing to do with them caring about their “perceived” image. All operting profit made by their company goes back to the east. They are not building anything into the infrastructure of our country. Go ahead and buy their autos, but then shut your mouth about the state of our country’s economy.

Nick, guess the joke is on Kelly…LOL

You can tell who never studied finance on this thread.

It’s all very simple: you can buy shares of Toyota, which is a publicly traded company (Tokyo Stock Exchange) and then you, an American can both profit from the rising of its stock price and profit from dividends when they are paid. Companies today, thanks to international trading are owned by people and private / public monetary intuitions from the four corners of the globe. You can redirect money going to Japanese investors of Toyota by simply buying stocks; for every share you purchase of a company, that’s one less share that someone else can purchase.

Jon.

If company A requires 8 people to make a car and company B requires 2 people to do the same, I fail to see how one is american and the other not.

This is just a overly simplified example, but if Ford was the 2 people work force, does it make them NOT Ameican? I don’t think so…

WHUT……..what’s your point??? EVERYTHING is about cost and profit. Do you think “Detroit” is in it for the hobby and the good of you and I? No, it’s about money/profit! That’s why EVERY car company sets up in other countries, because it makes sense. It’s cheaper and it’s easier to make a profit to sustain the existence of the company. That’s why everything is so global and there isn’t such a thing as an “American” car company. If the Big 2 (not DCX) were so “American” and so righteous, they wouldn’t make everything in Canada and Mexico.

EVERYTHING is about making money….it’s the AMERICAN way! Toyota is just better at it than any other car company.

Rather than advertise about what’s bad about Toyota, why not advertise about how good your product is compared to theirs……oh wait, you can’t!

Yes, everyone says that American cars are so good, but when I ask them to tell me what is so good about them, no one seems to respond. It’s put up or shut up time, both for people posting on LLN and for the American car industry.

Jon.

“This unconditional love for Toyota is naive. If the Kings Of The East blow their screws and try any hostile manouvers, your priorities will change. The yellow man wants your money AND your land. That’s all it is about. Give them an inch, they’ll grab it all. “VERY COMPETITIVEâ€?, my Chinese girlfriend emphasized.”

Good ole American racism. Goes together with that Chevy in the shop and that Denny’s applie pie made by Jose.

GM and Ford have been in decline since I saw my first Honda Civic hatch in ‘77. Time to let these rusting hulks die. -mt

“The yellow man wants your money AND your land. That’s all it is about. Give them an inch, they’ll grab it all. “VERY COMPETITIVEâ€?, my Chinese girlfriend emphasized.”

Do you call your girlfriend “The yellow woman”?

If you drop a hint of racism let alone an outright racial slur in your post, everything else you say is lost. You might as well just lead into your comment with “I am an ignorant idiot” so we know to skip it. Then again, that would account for more than half the comments here at LLN…

I bet #14’s “Chinese” girlfriend isn’t even Chinese. If she’s even an Asian American, she’s probably another ethnicity and he’s just saying “Chinese” because he’s ignorant enough to generalize all Asian people by the “Chinese” label.

wtf with all these union hating bull****. Toyota and Nissan pay their American workers more than Ford and those domestic crap and their benefits are close to what the union get which is pretty damn good to me.

And so what if the domestic companies go down the toilet. They did it to themselves what are we obligated to buy crap from them. Gm bust that stupid enron **** where their executives stole money from stocks and they’re prollie going to get away with it.

Absolutly correct “digitalzombie”. About the only thing keeping the big three in buiseness now is the unionized workers. It sure can’t be the work of the fat a$$’$ in the office. They have taken the auto industry down this road. Through the dedicated work of the unionized worker making a good wage and making a quaility product, and with competent leadership comining from the head office and engineering department. The auto industry may be able to turn this train wreck around. I’m not saying it will be easy but it will require team work from all involved. Just a laymans observation.

As far as i know a 1993 Mazda is the last run of the japanese built trucks left over from 1992. The ranger clone started in 1994.

The ESCALADE and Fusion ain’t no world class leading car. They are both outclassed by the BMW X5 and BMW 3 series. Ford and GM have done everything they are getting to them selves. Toyota is having a good time but it won’t last forever. Mind you, its helping change the american companies for the better so it ain’t such a bad thing

#20 Nick, it’s the other way around, the Ford Ranger is a rebadged Nissan B-Series.

I thought the Escalade and Fusion were built in Mexico and the Chrysler 300 in Canada.

Ford and GM should look at DiamlerChrysler as a model. Build good cars that look good and are exciting and americans will be glad to purchase. For years these two companies have tried to shove the ugliest piles of junk (Aztec, 500)down our throwts and charge outragous prices. Thanks to DCX for the great new cars such as the Hemi 300. Don’t mind the union man making fair wages and benefits. Not his fault for the poor college designers hired that are not real car enthusiest. Hire Chip Foose for your designs and come back to the party.

#7,#33,#35 – The Ford Ranger pickup (North America) has been built by Ford Motor Company in St. Paul, Minnesota since it’s introduction in the spring of 1982 as a 1983 model. (Prior to this Ranger was the name of the entry level trim on an F150)

Before the Ranger started being built, Ford’s small pickup was the Courier, a rebadged Mazda that Ford sold here prior to developing their own small truck, Ford owned 25% stake in Mazda at the time.

Even after the Ranger started production, Mazda continued to produce their own pickup for North American sales until 1993 when the B-series became a re-badged Ford Ranger pickup from that time forward.

The Ford Ranger never has and never will be produced by Nissan and yes, his 1993 Mazda was built by Ford.

#38 WHUT

The Mazda – Ford – Mazda truck saga came full circle in 1993 when the Mazda B-Series truck became a rebadged Ford Ranger in North America. Both vehicles are manufactured at Ford’s Saint Paul, Minnesota Twin Cities Assembly Plant, which is scheduled to close in 2008.

Built by Ford whit Mazda parts hardly makes it a Ford.

90% US and Canadian parts content, 5 speed automatic transmission made in France and 4.0L engine made in Germany…ok…

…regardless, last time I checked Ford owned Mazda, so WTD?

Ford owns 33% of Mazda.

…and controlling interest…

WHUT.. holy crap boy! .. who feeds you this propoganda BS.. Mazda is a family owned company.. at one time in the 90’s ford HAD a 38% share and theCEO spot.. you remember the 90’s for Mazda.. ‘ the dark years with poor sales and crap cars..’ Tha family started to buy back shares, regained board control and the last diying effort of Ford to manipulate mazda was with the RX-8, ( Ford tried to also kill the rotary off so that mazda would start to use ‘ford power plants’ in it’s sporty cars..) they delayed it’s launch until the Car was modified so it would NOT compete with the soon to be released crap new mustang. Mazda in the last 3 years has gone back to it’s roots, refound it’s heritage as’ the Japanese sport oriented car supplier to the masses’, Profits are up every year since Ford lost control and Matsuda family took control again..

Ford has no control over Mazda in ANY WAY anymore.. whom ever feeds you that line of BS is a bold faced liar or simply is insular to know.

Rotary’s live and all is good in the world.

The only reason D-C is doing ‘ better’ then GM or Ford is becuse back in the 80’s the US gov’t took over the pension plan for them.. without that they would be out of business.. oh and the tax payer paied for this to happen as well.. Glad I live in Canada.. Becuse for Ford and GM to survive they will have to do the same only not with the same ease of trasistion ( if you could call it that ) , FOr and GM both use the pension plans as leverage funds .. thing is they’ve been dipping WAY too deep for WAY too long without putting it back it. Ford and GM have leveraged themselves into a bit of a finacial quandry. Ford and GM at the moment are pretty much raizing the corporate fields behind them, selling off baggage like a end of year airport lost and found sale.. Most investors would see this is a good time to jump ship..

Oh and the Japanese no longer look at the US auto industry as it’s compitition anymore.. they’ve got thier eye’s focused solely on the top end European mfg’s. Subarus new Impreza is thier first volley into this ‘war’. Toyota and Nissan’s Lexux and infinity line are aimed solely at competeing with not the Lincon or caddies.. but with the MB’s and BMW’s..

Us auto dominance is dead. Ford UK and volvo, GM’s Opel and Saab carry both North American parents on the backs like the frail and dying things they are.