Looks like GM’s hybrid superiority is driving other makers to follow suit.

I don’t think hybrid and Porsche should ever be in the same sentence..

yep. porsche has lost what they stand for. its sad, really.

I can understand his philosophy, but the Prius was a hit. The only drawback I see is that public perception of VW as a fuel economy leader would be greater with a 60mpg Jetta or Rabbitt than a 32-35mpg Toureg.

Oh boy here we go. Keep in mind Bernd Pischetsrieder is in charge of much of the Laborparty concerning the VAG/Porsche group. Porsche axed the Diesel engine in Porsches and youll probably see them axe this for Porsche. With Pischetsrieder having a conflict of interest within Porsche/VAG, we might see a drop in quality of VAG products to prove a point that Bernd Pischetsrieder is really in control.

GMnumberone, GMs hybrids are in last place retard

id still rather pay the extra 20-30 grand for a V10 diesel.

hockeygod VW has a 60mpg jetta its called the TDI

I never thought the Cayenne was a bad idea for Porsche, however, a hybrid is verboten.

These cars need less weight, not more.

Some hybrids are faster than their gasoline counterparts. Think about it…Da Bears!

A4 – Don’t “feed” him (GM).

A4, where do you see information about a Jetta TDI and it getting 60mpg?

@A4,

I’d pay a small premium for the V6 TDI but wouldn’t consider the V10 engine because it’s very fragile and largely rendered obsolete by newer engines in VAG’s lineup. IMO, the V10 is probably on its way out. Too bad the V12 TDI from the Q7 doesn’t fit the current Touareg.

You guys are crazy. Embrace new technology. Dont be an old person. Porsche and Hybrid are inevitable. SO will every other brand. I hate to burst all your bubbles but internal combustion engines are on their way out. Another 25 years or so and they wont be making them for cars. If society has not collapsed due to global warming. These automakers are jokers. The technology is there for a plug in Diesel electric hybrid that would get 100 mpg TODAY. The tesla roadster that will be delivered to 250 pre orders this year gets 125 MPG if you break it down like that. There is NO EXCUSE. Or even better a series hybrid instead of a Parallel. For those of you who dont know what that is its an all electric vehicle that gets its power from a motor on board. Ships use it for power on the open seas. Its the most cost effective way. And that is currently available as we have been doing it for the better half of the last decade. We are being made fools by these companies that do just enough to get by.

Not all ships use hybrid (diesel/electric) systems. The biggest ships use direct drive without transmissions at all. Some ships like ferrys and cruise liners use diesel/electric systems with azipods, etc. But most ships use mechanical systems because they are proven and are more efficient when cruising. You lose 5% with a set of gears compared to 8-10% for electrical losses in a hybrid ship. Those extra losses can be rationalized because there will be less vibration due to no shafts and/or the engine room can be made more compact or placed almost anywhere. It depends on the ship and its application. But to think that most ships use hybrid is a crock.

heheh my fault for not explaining better. Series hybrid is electric and a diesel motor. The motor running on Diesel is not connected in any way to any transmission. Its only purpose is generating power. Which is in turn married to the electric motor on board which does not have any transmission as you have said. This is why it would be perfect on a car. A 3pot Diesel making the power for electric motors on two or four wheels. No transmission needed. That is a series hybrid. A parallel hybrid is what we are familiar w/ today. BTW like 99% of shipping use that. Even Navy vessels. In that case the reactor generates electricity for the electric motors. But its always an electric motor. Trains too. Its not the Diesel engine that makes the go. Its just there to generate power to feed the electric motors that make the go go. And VW makes a 3 cyl D that gets 70 MPG in the Lupo. you drop it in like i was saying and im sure you can expect 100+ MPG

I’ll just wait for the 35-40mpg 2.0TDI VW Tiguan SUV due in 2008.

PS- Isn’t there a different site for ship dorks(XeroBlue/TheStig) to discuss ships?

I just lost all respect for VW. Hybrids are overhyped overcomplicated and not as efficient as a good diesel. This is a dumb move on their part methinks. Let Toyo and GM swim in the gutter that is Hybrids, and everyone else make fun & attractive cars.

Would someone please tell me why anyone would buy a hybrid?? A toyota Prius is more harmful to the environment than a Range Rover of any sort over the course of it’s life when the manufacturing and decommisioning costs are bought into account as well. Also global warming is a politicly invented myth so that crap people, like Al Gore, have a chance of making a name for himself, so why bother fighting somthing that doesn’t exist, by all means, go ahead VW make a bit more money but come on people don’t get sucked in!!

golf4me.

Well said, modern turbo deisels like the Fiat 1.9 are the way to go.

Very informative. Hybrids and eventually fully electric cars are the future. The combustion engine had its century. Just like the Horse, Horse and buggy…

@ XeroBlue,

Check your facts please. Nuclear reactors generate heat which drive steam turbines which connect to and turn the propellors. No electric motors in the power transmission system, at least not yet.

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Hybrids only yield one advantage long-term: the ability to recover braking energy which would otherwise be lost to heat from friction. It is also reasonable to assume that a hybrid requires a smaller engine because the electric motor/battery is providing some of the acceleration. In fact the engine in a hybrid can be as small as would be needed to push the vehicle down the highway at its rated top speed – nothing more. However, current hybrids are implemented using heavy and expensive NiMH batteries which are a disposal problem and suffer from a general lack of longevity (something Prius owners will become intimate with if they keep the vehicle long enough).

At the very least a move to LiPo batteries would be reasonable: higher power density, much lighter and not as difficult to dispose of. Maybe in the next generation of hybrids that will happen, at an even higher front-end premium to the consumer.

A diesel hooked up to an efficient transmission (DSG, anyone) is the real way to go, at least short term until Tesla Motors et. al. delivers the plug-in that people want with decent range at the price they can afford.

Gas-electric hybrids, yawn. Such a worthless deadend technology compared to full-electrics like Tesla.

No, it’s not a ships discussion forum, but, now you’ve already mentioned, let’s say that in commercial ships we have pressurized-water reactors that generates only (although I think it also supplies the ship, for non-propulsion reasons, with electricity) direct turbine power from the heat, but naval ships use some amount of electrical power generated by the reactor’s heat because it undergoes repeated power changes for ship maneuvering, unlike commercial ships that operate most of the time at steady mode.

Now, talking ’bout cars, in my unpretentious (and pessimistic) opinion I really think electric cars are the way of the future. I say pessimistic ’cause once there’s no longer internal combustion cars, I’ill certainly prefer to ride a bike. Maybe hire a chauffeur. Can you figure electric Ferraris and Porsches? Even Mustangs and Corvettes? Of course ‘Vettes and Ferraris aren’t the reality for most of the crowd, but they are for me. I hope there will be demand for as-we-see-today sport cars for some time yet. I wonder if people who are so enthusiasts with this electric revolution are car enthusiasts at all. It’s not a bad thing, but I think they are actually “technology enthusiasts”. I hope BMW succeeds with its hydrogen-combustion development program (although I think this battle is already lost, sadly).

porsche and hybrid will be good as long as they stick to just the cayenne.

well, the stig, the reason i wouldnt pony up the money for the V6 TDI is because its not offered on american shores. Otherwise, id take the V6 TDI over the hybrid too. Also, hockeygod, where do you get your stats that a hybrid jetta would put out 60mpg? the prius cant even pull that in real world situations, so the jetta definatly wouldnt either. It was merely a point i was making that the Jetta TDI is worlds better than a hybrid version ever would be, both that it is available right now, gets equal mileage to what a hybrid would get, and will last MUCH longer in the long term being a diesel.

oh and diesels are just plain badass and hybrids are for sissy girls who like the smell of their own farts cause they just want to be better than everybody

Kiwiguy,

Spot on mate, I can’t understand the hybrid SUV idea. If anyone truly gave a **** about the environment they wouldn’t be buying a Touareg / Cayenne anyway.

Of course the killer is that the car will be scrapped once the environmentally horrific batteries die because they will be way too expensive to replace relative to the cost of the car. This problem is accentuated in small cars so the concept is screwed either way.

If the true environmental impact of the car is considered from its construction to its scrapping it turns out that you are doing much less damage to the environment if you continue driving your old high-polluting car, than if you buy a new one, of course this is not something that the manufacturers want to tell you…

the porche hybrid is gonna be from Lexus isnt it. i saw it somewhere

THERE IS NO V6 TDI FISRT OF ALL IN THE US SECOND THE JETTA GOLF/RABBIT/ BEETLE MANUAL WOULD GET 50+ AFTER 10,000 MILE BREAK IN PEORID 60+ HELL I HAVE SEEN A 96-97 JETTA TRADE IN THAT GOT 72MPG ON THE HIGHWAY

The only reason you see hybrids on the road is because they still need oil & gas. That’s why the oil companies paid the politicians off. They need to keep the oil in use as long as they can, so they keep their stranglehold on everything, & in the meantime, ruining our environment.

@A4,

Agreed. No US Touareg V6 TDI is nothing but lost opportunity for VAG.

XeroBlue i agree with you 100%. I have no need to state my opinion because all of you can look at his comment on embracing new technology and that is MY point, word for word. All of you need to stop being so biased, so incredibly biased without giving new technology a chance. Grow up and realize times are changing, they have to.

Foster, where oh where did you ever see a Jetta get 72 mpg on the highway. I fail to believe that.