at least they admit to this instead of the “floormat” issue

floor mats can be dangerous. You go wide open throttle in you 300zx on a tight road and then having the gas pedal get caught under the floor mat.

Should’ve fixed it first. Floor mats, though strike me as somthing a lawyer suggested.

Yeah. Big of them to admit it. As a side note though, I’ve had problems with all weather rubber floormats in my Mitsubishi truck before… they jam between the pedal and the inner wheel well. Could catch you out if you’re a bit slow, but I never had serious problems with mine.

And why would the other models not be recommended?

“We knew in the very beginning we had a transmission issue with that vehicle” …. but we put it on the market anyway. GM ain’t making these mistakes any more, and Toyota is going to learn not to also.

Did I just hear 1115’s artery pop???

Or the click of a hammer Ricardo, speaking of that where are the Toyota nut gobblers………

And why the hell would you send out a car with a f’d up tranny, not only that its the #1 selling car too, Dumb!

deantj: because you can get a better car for less

the funny thing is that if you ask any toyota nut, they will still defend the v-6 to the death, even after toyota admits theres a flaw.

400horseSS, the Toyota ‘nut gobblers’ are out buying a Toyota…because they still rank higher than GM.

Seriously, I’ve said it before: I don’t particularly like Toyota. They’re styling is boring ad so is the driving experience. But why do so many of you hate Toyota as a brand so much (Or Japanese imports in general)?

Please explain because the only reason I can come up with on my own is that you suffer from an inferiority complex and can’t handle the fact that a nation that we so clearly whomped in WWII is selling more cars than US car manufacturers.

And I know its not imports in general, because none of you throw such a hissy fit when European cars are brought up. So why do you universally hate Japanese cars?

alejandro head
No my heart is fine, I work out regularly thanks for asking.
I’m more of a Honda fan anyways. Lets see how many cars has GM put out with faulty engines, transmissions, and brakes >?? How many have Toyota put out hmm possibly 1car in 15 years ? Still doesn’t add up and Toyota as we speak now is # 1 and they have been for the last 15 years. Whether you are talking the past or the present Toyota is still in the top spot.
Do they need to work on some things? Perhaps but one year of recalls doesn’t add up to 20 + years of American Crap mainly from GM bc they were the biggest. Consumers still will buy Camry (MT car of the year 2007) over the Aura Malibu or any other inferior crap GM puts out
This is still the favor over the Malibu and people will buy Honda or at the least they will buy Hyundai
GM still loses

It shows that Toyota lost the top notch guy to Ford. This is the most immature response I’ve read in a loong time: yep we new of the problem, but **** ‘em and we don;t want to on the **** list and in the same breath. In states it will hurt them big time, ’cause average Joe (not the esteemed contributors to this forum) don’t know the difference between Camry V6 and Camry I4; they will see a Camry on the **** list. In the rest of the world nobody buys V6. However, Japs will get their house in order soon enough: keep sharp kitchen implements from those execs in Toyota city or at least place Your Tube near by to view the human sausage coming out of open gut.

Cyclone, you formulated very interesting question: why there is such disdain to japs cars and absolutely no animosity to krauts mobiles, or Italian jobs (we all know how bad FIat and Lancia were) and we all know that Ferrari/Maserati/Lambo are beautiful, but the maintenance is nightmare and repairs are on-going (except the guy who drops 250-300K on 4 wheels not gonna sneeze over few grand maintenance a month and those are NOT leased they are bought). My quess it is simple racism: krauts are like us, so do guineas and limies with their electrical problems, but japs are yellow. Is it it?

Autotnut: Jim Lentz said that Toyota knew of the problem because it was early in the debut of the Camry, not because Toyota didn’t want to fix it. That V6 transmission problem has been fixed for over a year. Nevertheless, since it is a 2007MY and a new model, Consumer Reports only surveyed 2007 owners, not 2005 and 2006 as they do with other older models.

I am curious to find out what concerns are with the Tundra and GS AWD. I know that the camshafts failures have exceeded 20 but are below 50. So either the sample population was small or there is something else wrong. And I haven”t heard of any concerns with the GS AWD. There aren’t any TSBs that point to any major concern, so it’ll be interesting to see what changes are made/announced.

I also agree that this will not hurt Toyota’s credibility in the long term. Toyota buyers usually comeback due to past history with the vehicle. Also if something wrong does happen, buyers are more likely to be more loyal than before if it was handled appropriately and effectively. With Camry V6 concerns, Toyota either offered full buybacks, a like-vehicle replacement or over-nighted new transmissions. I believe Tundra camshaft concerns were handled similarly.

Something to think about.

what kills me is in the same article they talk about the executives leaving and he says “yeah it is our middle management that is strong.”

lol..

that article was a pompous swerve .

Kaizen, about the “buyback” reference that’s not what I read about the Toyota experience from the actual owners at Carspace. Their references pointed to stuff more like denial, not getting response when they appealed to Toyota Motor Company, dealer mechanics telling them the tranny issues are normal or all in their head, etc. It took in fact years for the issue to finally be acknowledged, and prior to use in the Camry the same tranny was used in a Lexus (so I read) with similar issue, but the sales sample was a lot smaller and maybe Toyota thought the issue was addressed.

Still, I think the many experiences I read at Carspace from purchasers are something more to think about than a rumor of a buyback you mention above, but that was not offered to any single Camry owner who posted at Carspace (one even requested it and was rejected).

1115:

turn out the lights.

Even with the lights off Toyota and Honda still have better cars than the domestics. Check the resale and reliability ratings
What was the point of that post?

Since you like CR so much

Despite Toyota’s problems, the automaker still ranks third overall in reliability, behind only Honda and Subaru, with 17 models in the best list. Honda has seven with a smaller model lineup.

Only four domestic models made the most reliable list: the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, Pontiac Vibe, and the two-wheel-drive Ford F-150 with the V6 engine. U.S. makes, however, account for almost half the models–20 of 44–on the least reliable list. There are 13 from GM, 6 from Chrysler, and 1 from Ford.

Lights out bitch ha ha

Cyclone: I hate toyotas because I owned one.
Fluffer: The malibu will be a better car than the camry. don’t know if it’ll sell more, though.

Show me a list that describes 15- and 17-year old cars.

Kaizen -

You know little to nothing about the CR survey. They have data on each model year going back TEN (10!) years. They survey owners with 07, 06, 05, etc, etc. cars. If they only survey 2007 owners, how the hell do they have data on the reliability of a 2000 MY Camry? Huh?

Unless you know what you’re talking about, quit running your mouth and speculating about their survey and results.

Toyota used to do one thing well. Make appliance like cars that were reliable. If you were driving a Toyota, at least you could be consoled that the car was overbuilt and would not break down.

In my opinion, there is now no longer a reason to buy a Toyota. The car still does not have a soul and it is no longer any more reliable than those that do.

1115, you never seize to amaze me at how anti-american you are. And the worst part is that there are many people out there like you polluting america. The World War II generation was truly the best, and its too bad that there hasn’t been another generation like it.

You yourself said that reputations like Toy’s take time to build. Well now that Toy has stopped building quality cars and become obsessed with sales numbers as we have seen in the last 2 months, it will take some time for them to ruin their reputation. GM on the other hand is building some of the best cars it has in years (the CTS and Enclave are both the best vehicles in recent memory for their respective divisions) but it will take time for the average public to realize this. Don’t worry, in 5-10 years Japanese-loyalists like yourself would have either disappeared or moved to Japan, either way there will be none left

ALMSfan: Actually I do know the CR survey very well. For this report, CR surveys their subscribers, owners of vehicles with model years 2005, 2006 and 2007. If the vehicle was newly introduced or redesigned within that period, they only include those model years. Therefore, the 6th generation Camry was redesigned for model year 2007. So the results would have been based off of model year 2007 data only. 2005 and 2006 models years were for the 5th generation Camry.

Congratulations on looking like a jackass.

I like how they “admit that they knew about the flaw” but released it anyways. They don’t care about their loyal followers..they think they will just buy a different one and still praise them.

RicardoHead: There are two main issues as far as I know with the Camry transmission. One was the shift flare leading to transmission failure. The second is a hesitation/response concern. I’m not sure which concerns these people had but the shift flare/failure is the one I’m referring to as far as buybacks.

The hesitation concern was related to a drive-by-wire concern that I think they have mainly eliminated at this point. If the customers came in for that concern, they probably were told something along those lines that it was a characteristic of the car. And it was. It was a software concern that needed to be address by engineers and updated to vehicles affected. So since nothing could have been done until the software was updated, technicians and dealers honestly had to tell them nothing could be done and it was operating to (poor) manufacturer’s design.

Thing that sucks is that the flare concern sometimes could have been mistakenly diagnosed as the hesitation concern and not caught until the transmission failed.

JJT – What model did you own? What kind of problems did you have? Also, does your dislike also pertain to Honda, and if so why?

Don’t take offense, its not that I don’t think you have legitimate reasons for disliking Toyota, I’m just curious.

And I apologize for the double negative.

Imtrevonte: Toyota knew about the flaw before the survey came out, not before the car came out.

That would be the stupidest thing I could imagine a car company doing. To knowingly piss off customers, sacrifice satisfaction and lose money on every single car sold.

If it serves as any evidence, Toyota delayed the release of the Lexus ES (with the EXACT same powertrain) because they found out about the defect so early in the Camry’s release. Therefore, very few ES’s were affected and thus it is still recommended by CR.

Toyota still builds quality cars (better than domestic cars) and still has higher resale and a great rep.
Its patriots like you who want people to support a company that has sold them crap for years. It doesn’t make me anti American just because I dont want to buy an inferior product. That is the problem with people like you.

No, it makes you anti-american because you hate any car that is produced by, or affiliated with America.

I am a patriot, I don’t know if I am supposed to be insulted when you call me that, but I am not.

However, my patriotism has nothing to do with buying a car. If it did, I wouldn’t be driving a BMW.
I also kind of like Infinitis, I like the Supra and Highlander, and the GS430 and RX350, and the new Accord as well as the Odyssey, and the Mazda 3, and the Altima and 350Z, and some other ones. The point is that Japanese cars ARE on my list when I go shopping. When you go shopping, the first thing you do is cross off all non-Japanese cars off your list because you have this built-in predisposition that the domestics are incapable of building a quality car. And what is that based on? The publics opinion and the fact that your dad had a ‘84 Lincoln that had a fuel leak problem or something? You don’t give all carmakers a fair shot, you are ignorant of the fact that there are other choices other than the redundant offerings from Japan

Yea now you want to be called a Patriot? You are dizzy and you let your patriotism affect your car buying decisions and your advice to others. You driving a BMW and telling people to consider an American car is worse! It means you dont believe in what you say! You want other to drive inferior cars while you drive your german tank PLEASE! Are you kidding me ?

I like (and own)Japanese cars along with the Germans and the Koreans.The Koreans still have to prove themselves but they came into America with a solid warranty. That says a lot and although GM was the biggest car co at the time, they offered no such warranty. Gm and the domestics didn’t take the Japanese comp seriously and are paying for it dearly.
I don’t consider American cars bc they are inferior. You know what its based on and you just refuse to accept it.
It will take years for domestics to prove themselves. If they do prove their reliability I still have to like the car more than the Japanese German and Korean offerings. Can it happen ? Maybe but its HIGHLY unlikely

Keep digging in, 1115. Keep digging in…

Commodore. Camrys are made in US. Most of Hondas as well. As a matter of fact Accord that we see here is ONLY for US market and made only in US (Ohio I believe). I totally agree with you that it is anti-American to buy Daewoos made in Korea and sold by Chevy. Except Saudi Princes who own large stock in GM and Russian oil tycoon who owns huge stake in GM it benefit no-one in America. Not even Koreans working on them Daewoos in Korea!

Back to Toyota. I had a Camry with issues and as usual dealer is a dealer (Toyota or Chevy does not really matter because in my neck of the woods same prick owns all of them and Democratic Party with hookers on the side). But Toyota was very arrogant in dealing with my problems. My body just got rid of Tundra with tranny problem. Toyota knew of the problem, he is not the only one with it, but they told him to go **** himself because during warranty period it was not fixed and now it passed it. He is very disappointed in their response.

By the way, I’m interested here out of a sort of anthropological way. What is it about Honda & Toyota lovers that makes them think that company can do no wrong? I’m not talking about 1115 here specifically, but there is a good example. Oh, I know what his answer would be (and I’m not interested in hearing it again).

But case in point – I used to work with one of these chuckleheads. He buys the Element and seriously says that it is an aerodynamic vehicle, and backed that statement up with some nonsense about how Honda had done the tunnel work and made a brick aerodynamic. He really believed it, and no amount of discussion would make him admit anything else. (LOL, I just realized that he might actually be 1115! Dude, is your name Scott?)

Now I’m not saying he is a stupid sod, but he’s also not the brightest person I’ve ever met, either. I just wonder what makes these guys so feverishly in the corner of one manufacturer?

That said, I’ve been a GM man my whole life, but I’ll admit when I think GM makes mistakes – and I’ll state right here they’ve made some real stinkers over the years. I’m not convinced that the quality coming down the pipe will last forever, because history shows that when there’s a profit to be made they’ll cut that corner to get it.

So what is it about these Kool Aid drinkers? Any ideas?

Injuraiv – people can become evangelical about pretty much anything. Mac vs. PC, one piece of software over another, one brand over another, one religion over another, one country over another. They become blinded, or unwilling to admit that there is anything else outside of their sphere of experience. We’ve seen it on this forum numerous time. ‘I had a flawless Honda, ergo ALL Honda’s are flawless” or “I had a flawed Honda ergo ALL Honda’s are flawed”. What it comes down to is that you can’t legislate intelligence.

injunraiv I totally share your anthropological inquiry. I believe and may be mistaken and would like to be proved mistaken, that we have a case of pure and simple racism at play. It is on subconscious level, of course. Nobody bitches much about German cars, most of them either sub par in quality or sub par in quality and very overpriced (even when dollar was strong Benz and Bimmers were out of this world in price). Benz’s and Bimmers that made in US are below quality of their German/Hungarian stablemates. Yet nobody complains (much) because Krautz look like us. Ditto for limies with their electrical problems, albeit their car factories now belong either to Ford or Krauts. We adore Italian cars, yep we all know that you cant drive one for day trip of 500 miles: it will run out of oil or will break for other reason. Plus the guy who BUYS exotic will not mind since it is not a working car and if you can afford 200K on a car you can afford few grand a month on maintenance/repairs.

Japs are definitely don’t look European and their cars kick ass in quality and reaching performance level of uber races. And that hurts our sensitive hearts. I am not proclaiming any superiority of japs over “round eyes”, but I do give credit to their corporate culture and working ethics. I wish we learned.

Buenos pegged it. People become evangelical (perfect adjective, Buenos) and feel that need to “preach” to the world their “superior wisdom.”

Hey, opinions are fine and dandy until they become preachy. We all shoot off our mouths and express our thoughts and that’s great, but when it becomes an endless diatribe (pro/anti Toyota/Honda/Ford/GM/BMW/Import/Domestic/Hillary/Bush/etc) then you have a screw loose in the eyes of the world, and no screwdriver anyone can give you will help until 1115 opens his eyes, rams that screwdriver thru them, and twists that handle so that his brain begins to function normally.

By the way – I admit I’m not fan from a reliability standpoint of European cars due to too much personal and professional experience dealing with their inability to produce a reliable car. The Europeans tend to have design, styling, and superficial (tactile, visual) items wired on a car, but on the whole don’t seem to produce vehicles designed for the long-term and a bit of abuse compared to the Japanese or American offerings.

To answer to Autonut from a different point of view, one from Europe… The only reason for which Jap cars are so criticized isn’t racism but lake of fairplay. Japan car market is simply closed to anyone which is not japanese, and japs don’t buy foreign car, no matter how good they are. This game allow jap producers an unfair advantage when it comes to make sure money in any investment. Try to recalculate Toyota ranking in the world without Japan’s inner market… you’ll be surprised! Not to mention Nissan, which is owned by Renault, or Mazda, belonging to Ford. One partial exception is Honda, a relatively smaller corp. On the other hands here in Europe GM-Opel-Vauxhall and Ford do project, design and manifacture since the very beginning of last century in EU and their market share is about well over 25%, the same about american market where euro brands are always welcomed as far as their quality is decent (have a look at past mistakes of Fiat Group, Renault and Peugeot!!) because american people are open to buy good cars wherever they come from, just like europeans.
Best Regards

Ricardo listen to yourself. You admitted that Europeans do not produce all that impressive cars as far as durability and quality goes. You are equating American and Japanese brands in quality. That equation does not exist yet. I concur that American brands are making progress in quality direction. I doubt that they are making this progress out of good will, and not because Japs annihilated their own market place. I do remember days when big 4 owned 85-95% of the largest market on earth. Now they are about 50%. As a believer in economics, I attribute increased quality of US brands to competitive forces of the market place. GM cars are better today because of Toyonda.
Add a sprinkle of racism and you get the full picture.

Luca I’ve been to Europe and Japan. European cars are welcome in Japan with “wrong side steering wheel”. There plenty of Benzes and Bimmers in Tokyo (not as many as Toyotas or Hondas or Suzuki) but you get the point. Japanese are quite cosmopolitan and they adore rock, jeans, Gucci shoes and Armani suites. Actually they dress better then Europeans (classier). But their cars are of higher quality so why they would buy crap? I recall identical sentiment in American press in ’80’s that there are “barriers” to our trade. True, they don’t buy rice (or did not). But when GM & Ford made couple of models with right hand steering very few been sold, even at the competitive price with Japanese cars. Especially in late ’80s the dollar felt sharply against yen and GM was threatening to invade their market. Well we know how it came out.

I equated nothing. I said from a longterm reliability standpoint the Japanese and American offerings do better than the European offerings, based on my professional and personal experiences.

From styling and sporty driving characteristics, the Euro brands do generally better – no question – but that comes at a considerable cost. Apparently a lot of people consider that cost to be worth it, but for both personal and professional use I need vehicles I can count on to start when I want and not cause problems or extra costs, and I’ve learned how to get hot chicks in the sack regardless of the vehicle I drive.

Very quick repartee from anthropology to pussy.

I focus on the important things in life.

Head: I’d say for the most part, you’re right on. As a generalization, Euro makes are less reliable than domestics/Japanese. But I’d say there are numerous exceptions, and so if you want a Euro car (sportiness, styling, etc), you can find a reliable one. BMW 3 series for example. Audi TT. BMW 6 series. Etc. Though for the most part, you’re right, especially M-B.

Of course the Camry is flawed. Every Toy Ota vehicle has major flaws…get used to it if you want to buy their crap.

And as proof of my earlier comment, Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you 1c3d0g

Cyclone: I owned a celica. I hate 4-wheeled hondas because I owned a civic.

I like two-wheeled hondas, because a girlfriend of mine had one and it was just about perfect

The celica’s problems were largely repeated blown gaskets and electrical system failures nobody could figure out.

I’ve never owned a Nissan, but have known plenty of people who have, and their trouble reports were minimal. Subaris are tough (my stepfather had one), and I also like mazdas (I had one before my current car,and my uncle uses a B-series for work, his third or fourth mazda)

Fluffer: “…just because I dont want to buy an inferior product.” If that’s true, why do you drive an accord?

I would not say you’re “anti-American,” just that you’re vehemently anti-Big Three, and have shown no reason for being that way. Furthermore, past comments you’ve made suggest to me that you’re of a communist persuasion, so it may seem reasonable to some others that you are “anti-american.”

Commodore: see the camaro article for my theory on the Fluffer’s hatred of the “domestics.”

trippleonefluffer: The Koreans came into America with pure crap, and after getting bitch-slapped by consumers and automotive journalists, they came up with a new plan that included a solid warranty. “Gm (sic) and the domestics didn’t take the Japanese comp seriously and are paying for it dearly.” That’s certainly true.

“I don’t consider American cars bc they are inferior.”
No, dumb-ass, you don’t consider American cars bevcaues they are American.

“I still have to like the car more than the Japanese German and Korean offerings. Can it happen ? Maybe but its HIGHLY unlikely.”

No, it can’t happen. You’re never going to like Ford, Chrysler or GM unless they move HQ to tokyo. Then, you’ll be magically transformed.

rav: “Now I’m not saying he is a stupid sod,”.
I’ll say it: tripleonefluffer is a stupid sod, and any of y’all who show him any respect is a loser.

buenos: I like Macs.

autonut: Are you jared taylor? Not many “Krauts” or “Limeys” look like me. I like to look at british cars, but there’s none I’m likely to own. I do have a weakness for BMWs, though. And that GT-R could be my mid-life crisis car.

“rav: “Now I’m not saying he is a stupid sod,”.
I’ll say it: tripleonefluffer is a stupid sod, and any of y’all who show him any respect is a loser.”

For the record, I was talking about my (former) cow-orker, not 1115. But I’m coming to the conclusion they are one in the same.

Name calling will get you nowhere and it wont help GM get back lol
This is fun

Remember toyota can do no wrong

Autonut – FYI approximately 15% of camrys sold in the US this year were made in Japan.

In either case it is telling that the tranny problems with the 6 continues well past their `knowledge of the problem`and they just seem to sluff it off..

Kaizen

No, you’re wrong. They survey owners of ALL vehicles. They don’t send out selective surveys to owners of 2005, 2006 and 2007 vehicles. They use the LAST three years as a basis for a recommendation.

If they had data for 2001, 2002, and 2003 on a vehicle, say an Accord, and nothing after that, they won’t recommend it. Conversely, if they have data for an 07, 06, and 05, it doesn’t matter if they don’t have data for the 7 years prior. They use three years (and less, depending on sample size, if they don’t have data for the 3 most recent years) for the basis of a recommendation.

If you’re such a genius, how do they have data for the 2000 Honda Accord? From the owners of an 05, 06, or 07 Accord? No. They collect data from owners of vehicles up to 10 (TEN) years old. So that means owners of vehicles from 1998 through 2007.

You’re quick with the comebacks, but you still don’t grasp the depth of the data.

Initial quility is so over rated. I dont care much if my car brakes or has issues when it is new or under warranty. Sure it is inconvnient but its cheap. I want a vehicle that will stand up to my abuse in the long haul with the least amount of $breaks$.Any body ever wonder who has the most vehicles on the road with over 250,000 miles on them. That seems way more important to me then how many problems I have in the first year while still under warranty. I don’t care what car lasts the longest while some Con Reports nerd who drives for mileage either. Abuse and miles are the key element to testing durability. Not new car smell.

Toys are all right for my wife but I break them.
The last tough well built toyotas were the mid to late-80s trucks and 4-runners. You can beat on them and beat on them and they would just go and go with low maintenance and few problems.
If Japanese cars are so well built and durable why aren’t they ever used in crash up derbys?, cause they cant hang bitch. (yes I know that is ignant red neck point of view but Damn if it aint true)
Japanese cars cant stand up to the abuse of police and Taxi service either, That is the differnce between Con Repo quality and real life toughness.

ALMSfan: This is straight from CounsumerReports.org

4.5. What is Predicted Reliability?
The Predicted Reliability, also called New Car Prediction, forecasts how well a new model that is currently on sale is likely to hold up based on its recent history. For this Rating, we average a model’s Used Car Verdict for the newest three years, provided the vehicle did not change significantly in that time and hasn’t been redesigned for the upcoming model year. Over the years, we have found that several years of data are a better predictor than the most recent model year alone. ***One or two years of data may be used if the model was redesigned within that three-year time frame, or if there were insufficient data for some years.***

Yes Kaizen, CR.org makes that grand and noble statement, and then has historically broken their own rule ONLY for the sake of Toyota and Honda by recommending their significantly changed or completely redesigned models basically sight unseen and with zero data.

CR has just now been forced to eat crow on Toyota recommendations and publically state that Toyotas will now be held to the same standards of the mere mortals …. (I bet for maybe only a year or two, after which Toyota will again be deified).

1115: Not my job to help GM get back. They treat me right, I’ll treat them right.

swerve: good point at 3:26.

Headgiver: CR does that for domestic models too. They recommend absolute domestic GARBAGE simply because they need to find some U.S. products to recommend. Case in point: Last gen Ford Taurus (the one made up until basically last year), and most recent Dodge Stratus and last gen Chrysler Sebring were all recommended towards the end of their years, in which they were some of the worst offerings available in that class. For this, I actually think that CR gives the domestics more breaks than Toyota or the Japanese.

Lambo, you’ve got to be kidding…

LaborghiniZ…

The Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Sebring WERE not the worst offerings in that class. They actually looked different from the crowd, and Chrysler was very successful at conveying that design language until now. Aside from having soft lines, the interior was just as nice, if not nicer in my opinion then the Toyota Camrys, and mpg is similar (I usually see Sebring figures anywhere around 22-30 city/highway and Camry 22-31). The Honda Accord on the other hand had a nicer interior than the two, although I still preffer the looks of the Chrysler Sebring over the Honda Accord. On the other hand, I liked the Taurus more because it seemed to be a fuller car, I like the interior the most and the options, especially the wagon version. So it’s alot of choice about what you like, but I think CR was fair to do so, as while the rest of the competition idled Chrysler was still busy making tweaks to the Sebring, and Taurus was getting some credit after the horrible late 90’s redesign. But hey, once again it’s mostly opinion, so what can I say?

But I can say, and I’m sure more than most of you will agree, that CR gives more credit to foreign manufacturers, specifically the Japanese, then deserved. Sure, Honda and Toyota make some nice vehicles, but the only thing I really enjoy them for is their interiors, and make a car NOT look cheap.

It’s simple; first of all, the American automanufacturers specifically, don’t know how to hide body panel gaps. Putting them on flat surfaces, parrallel to the roof line, and other small details are just a few to name. Secondly, they haven’t taken the time to make an effort to reduce those body panel gaps. You mostly notice this around where the hood and the grill meet, I very often see panels with spaces of more than 1/2 inch, and it shows.

Has anyone noticed the quality of Toyotas gets worse as more and more are built in the USA? Their quality ratings were highest when they didn’t build cars in America.

Japanese cars are so well built and durable why aren’t they ever used in crash up derbys?, cause they cant hang bitch. (yes I know that is ignant red neck point of view but Damn if it aint true)
Comment by SwerveEarly, posted on October19 at 3:26 pm
.
oh hell friggin yeah i like your thinking.

Well its hicks in America building the cars. I wouldnt be surprised if they are trying to sabotage Toyota’s operation.
If you are an americn who grew up on american cars then a Japanese car company becomes #1 wouldnt that make you skip a few QC checks, forget a bolt here & there or not tighen something ?
Just a theory folks. Nov 22nd is coming up soon

bun_a_toyota, so you are saying americans are too stupud to properly bolt prefabricatd parts together, or the designg of those prefabricated parts are subpar?

mabey not the rest of us 1115 but if that is the way you think i have no respect for you. saying somebody would sabatoge their job for revenge on japan is just below even you, please dont say stuff like that it is below your above average mentality.

Kaizen -

This statement of yours is wrong:
“Nevertheless, since it is a 2007MY and a new model, Consumer Reports only surveyed 2007 owners, not 2005 and 2006 as they do with other older models.”

What you are saying in your followup posts is that CR will use one year of data for a new/redesigned model. Yes, that’s true. But saying they SURVEYED “2007 owners, not 2005 and 2006″ is false. They don’t call out certain owners. They survey all subscribers.

There is a reliability chart for a 2007 Camry, and there is also a chart for the previous generation. There is data on the NEW car and the OLDER cars.

Below average mentality? Sauerkraut and chopsticks?
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PAGE 2?

lambo: I think the last “old Taurus” was quite sound, it was just long in the tooth.

but if your point was that consumer reports is excrement-engorged, to you I say “touché.”

jJay: “The Dodge Stratus and Chrysler Sebring were not the worst offerings in that class.”

boring as hell, irrevelant as hell, but I would agree with that statement.

The Taurus, like the Maxima, wasn’t really a commuter coffin, but it served that purpose after the Contour/Mystique were killed. My mom had a ‘95 Taurus (traded in a camry for it) and it was so good to her that she bought another ford. Now, she’s REALLY smart and drives a Tahoe.

bun_a_gm: far as I know, the Tundra is the only toyota (mostly) built in america. Camry, i believe, is assembled in kentucky. Can’t blam the UAW for this one!

tripleonefive: You must have brain cancer, because it seems you get more retarded with each post.

“Well its hicks in America building the cars. I wouldnt be surprised if they are trying to sabotage Toyota’s operation.
If you are an americn who grew up on american cars then a Japanese car company becomes #1 wouldnt that make you skip a few QC checks, forget a bolt here & there or not tighen something ?”

grammar aside, my rebuttal is this: Self-preservation is the first law of nature. rare is the person, even in kentucky, who’d be so dumb as to put his own job at risk by making his employer seem like it puts out a crappy product.
The average guy who hates his job that much would just get another job.

CTS: glad you already checked his ass.

I dunno JJT, people in Kentucky are pretty stupid. If some Paki can prosper in the US right off the boat with a little elbow grease, then why is all of Kentucky financially underwater with all the government handouts in the world?

SwerveEarly, the comment about Jap cars in crash’n'derbies is gold. Perfectly stated….

I used to know a guy from Kentucky. I knew he was smart because the first thing he did after leaving was get rid of that accent!

1) Those 470,000 recalled Toyotas in Japan were 100% Japanese built.

2) The variety of different width panel gaps on a brand new Japan built FJ Cruiser defies imagination. I was next to one at a stoplight and was checking the gaps out in disgust. I assume it was new because it still had the Monroney, but the gap differences were all over the place.

Buenos: get lost. Toy Ota’s are as flawed as they come. No vehicle they produced will ever come close to other manufacturers. In their own backyard Honda is eating them alive, they’re being driven out of North America and in Europe nobody can touch the Germans. I don’t feel sorry for them either, after years of building POS vehicles and still using that same Denso crap, no wonder they’re falling apart.

You have written so much bull**** in this thread 1115 that i can’t respond to it all.

However, I will respond to the part about Hyundai. You allege that they offered the good warranty out of the goodness of their hearts or came to America with it or something like that. Well, since you LOVE wikipedia so much here is a quote from there:

“Rather than drop out of the world’s largest automotive market, the parent company of Hyundai began investing heavily in the quality, design, manufacturing, and long-term research of its vehicles. It added a 10-year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty to its vehicles sold in the United States. In 20 years, both quality and sales dramatically increased, and the reputation of Hyundai cars improved. In 2004, Hyundai tied with Honda for initial brand quality (quality of engine parts not factored in) in a survey/study from J.D. Power and Associates, for having 102 problems per 100 vehicles. This made Hyundai second in the industry, only behind Toyota, for initial vehicle quality. The company continued this tradition by placing third overall in J.D. Power’s 2006 Initial Quality Survey, behind only Porsche and Lexus.”

Hyundai began the warranty AFTER their colossal failure, the Excel, showed its true colors and America thought of Hyundai as the most unreliable company. They began the warranty because their product and reputation sucked and they wanted to persuade people to take a chance on their cars if though they were perceived as unreliable, and a long warranty is a good way to do that. The warranty wasn’t offered because they wanted to ’stand by their cars’ (why doesn’t Honda offer such a warranty then?)

QUOTE:
“If you are an americn who grew up on american cars then a Japanese car company becomes #1 wouldnt that make you skip a few QC checks, forget a bolt here & there or not tighen something ?
Just a theory folks. Nov 22nd is coming up soon” – COMMENT BY 1115

You have GOT to be kidding me. Now you allege that American workers have patriotically united in order to destroy Toyotas reputation?????? Is there anything you would NOT say in defense of Toyota?? Even when all the facts say that they are building less reliable cars, you still make up some fictional story to defend them. Why?? They suck, get over them.

COMMODORE. U ARE A DILUDED IDIOT.I AM NOT A TOYOTA FAN THE COROLLA WUD PROBABLY BE BOTTOM OF MY LIST OF NEXT CAR.HOWEVER THE HAVE TO BE RESPECTED FOR THERE DEDICATION TO RELIABILITY.OK THERE HAS BEEN A DANGEROUS AMOUNT OF RECALLS RECENTLY BUT THIS WILL REDUCE AS TOYOTA BEGINS TO KEEP UP WITH DEMAND.LIKE IT WAS POSTED EARLIER ON IN THIS FORUM (TOYOTA ON A BAD DAY IS STILL BETTER THAN GM AT IT’S BEST).EVEN THE PATROITIC AMERICANS BUY MORE OF THEM OVER FORD AS EVEN THEY WON’T BUY THERE OWN **** NOW.

END OF , END OF.

THERE IS ALOT OF CARS FROM AMERICAN THAT WE DON’T GET IN EUROPE THANK GOD. THERE ARE ALOT OF ****TERS FROM AMERICAN MANUFACTURERS. LIST
ALL BUICKS EXCEPT THE LUCRENE AND ENCLAVE
ALL CADDYS EXCEPT THE NEW CTS
CHEVY MAILBU,COBALT,IMPALA, MONTE CARLO AND UPLANDER
CHRYLSER SEBRING, PT CRUSER
DODGE CAILBER
FORD CROWN VIC,500,FREESTAR, FREESTYLE AND THE MUSTANG (IT HAS A LIVE REAR AXLE HOW RUBBISH)
MOST GMC
HUMMER SUCKS(PACKAGED LIKE DIRT)
LINCOLN NAVIGATOR AND TOWNCAR
ALL MERCURY
ALL PONTIAC EXCEPT G8
SATURN(CAN’T BELIEVE THE AURA GOT NA COTY . IT BASICALLY A RESKINNED OPEL SIGNUM WHICH WAS SLAMMED BY CRITICS IN EUROPE)

TO END OPINON ON THIS FORUM . CHECK CONSUMER RATINGS. THE JAPANESE STILL RULE.

cardesigner: turn your damn CAPS LOCK key OFF. Perhaps then people will take a minute to read your crap. Oh and b.t.w., Commodore’s right…you’re wrong.

(1c3d0g)it ain’t crap it fact. i only comment on fact and not not the diluded views of people like YOURSELF.
all car satisfaction surveys carried out in both europe and North america show japanese cars to be ranked highest for relaibility with toyota ranked between 2nd and 5th.subaru,mazda and honda ranked in the top three.

how clearer could it be. can you not make out FACTS.

Honda doesnt offer such a warranty cuz their cars DONT FAIL ! GM cars do THEY SHOULD HAVE OFFERED THE WARRANTY. GM took what 20 years to offer a warranty ?
Lets just get it straight GM CHRYSLER and FORD have made **** never made recalls on cars that had MAJOR engine problems and tranny problems. Instead of owning up to it they deny and the consumer eats the cost.

The Japanese and the koreans have a little thing called honor, not honor meaning buy american bc you are american, honor meaning if they make something unreliable they back it up with a warranty or recall so THEY can fix it so the consumer trusts them and continues to buy the product. I dont think Honda or Toyota should make any cars in the US they should move them to Mexico like Hmmm GM

Bottom line GM sucks Honda and Toyota have better quality vehicles and Hyundai put more money into R & D why didnt GM do that in the 90’s? If they had they wouldnt be getting their selfish POS car building asses handed to them by the Japanese

(tripleonefive) u know what u are talking about.the japs shud ditch there american manufacturing facilities. especially Nissan. there canton plant has produced its only problemtic vehicles (armada,titan quest and Qx560)SELL THE PLANT TO SOME OF THE BIG THREE)

My Honda (made in Japan and not my current car) definitely failed a couple times. Mind you it was not a bad ride, but it did fail, and proved no more reliable or pleasurable to own than and Ford or GM before or since then.

Went to a Honda dealer recently to check out an S2000. The sales help was so putzy and uninformed I walked out. That putzy uninformed crap plays well to soccer moms, but not to people who want facts before they buy. I have no doubt that both Honda and Toyota make good cars, but IMHExperience they are simply not above the rest as some would have you believe. Next time if I end up buying Japanese then it’ll probably be a Mazda or Infiniti and if American then some form of GM.

Oh yeah, 1115, that thing called honor you brought up … save that BS for the Klingons.

cardesigner 5 – your first all CAPS post was all bitching (welcome to the forum, and thanks for making your “I love Japan, everyone else sucks” biased intentions known early), and then your second all CAPS post I couldn’t understand because of your poor, middle school grammar. I couldn’t understand if you were saying that Japan didn’t get all their American cars from Europe (like Honda does with their Acura models) or if you were saying that GM gets all their US products from Europe, or if you were just making a list of American cars you hated, or….I have no idea what you are talking about.

1115 – so first you say that Hyundai offered a big warranty because they wanted to stand by their cars, then you say that GM offered theirs because their cars sucked, and then you have that Honda did NOT offer one because their cars were so good they didn’t need it? A lot of contradiction there with the Hyundai/Honda warranties and of course more anti-GM bias. If I were buying a car, I’d feel better buying one from a company like Hyundai or GM rather than from a company like Honda so on the warranty issue Hyundai and GM beat Honda. Also, I have a feeling that in a few years Toy will come out with a big warranty to re-assure the public that their cars are still good (even though they are recalling them by the millions). Uhh, there goes the patriot thing again…. Go to the “Kia plans to launch green vehicles by 2009″ thread and check out my post about “my patriotism” – you should go read it too cardesigner5.

cardesigner5 – So now you are saying that Jap cars built in America are of lesser quality than the Jap cars built in Japan? Uh oh, I sense a ’stupid American rednecks’ post coming. But anyway, thanks for letting me know that. I hope the public will also soon realize that the Camry, Tundra, Sonata, Armada, Titan, Santa Fe, and all the rest are of the same quality as the American cars built here.

Ricardo – I know what you mean; Japanese car dealers are awful. My friend went to check out a used, 6 months old ‘07 Tahoe at a Honda dealership and the guy tried to sell him a “more fuel-efficient and reliable” Honda Pilot. “Any Japanese car is better than the domestic competition” he said. I think he forgot he was a Honda salesman, and not a ‘Japan is better’ BS seller, so we told him, “Thanks so much for your time, we will go check out the Toyota Sequioia”

commodore i don’t love japan.there are a number of american car’s i wud have over a camry (i hate the camry and especially the corolla)
(300c,new CTS,fusion,lincoln zeypher etc, etc).I am saying that japanese are just more reliable, that’s what the do best in the same way american manufacturer’s do best at making high displacement engine’s with **** power output’s.
secondly i was refering to the american cars that are not sold in europe . if u want me to talk about the one’s that are, alot of them are rubbish.eg the dodge cailber,nitro,avenger,chrylser sebring,pt cruiser,STS,OLD CTS AND XLR. most american cars are rated rubbish by european motoring journalist’s. check them out some time. this hate toward’s toyota has started since the became world’s largest manufacturer and this has crushed american ego’s. If GM was still no1 these biased opinions wud not be heard.

cardesigner5:

I am aware that the American cars have sucked in the past (like the OLD cts, but not the new one). That is because Americans focused on high-profit SUVs and pickups and ignored the car segment. They have learned their lesson and are killing off their bad cars like the Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, Aztek, Cavalier, Catera, L-Series, Ion, Rendezverous, Rainier, Century, Regal, and so on and replacing them with new ones. (Look at the difference between Cavalier and the replacement Cobalt or between the old Malibu and the new one). The public will warm up to these cars soon. On the other hand, when Toyota becomes #1 at the end of this year, like every other #1 company, they will be severely criticized. The recent reliability problems and boring designs and lack of exciting product will take the spot light and Toy’s reputation might tank. This is what happened when GM was #1 for so long. People began to criticize them and they had a near death experience. That all comes with being #1…Toyota will soon be seen as another corporate titan rather than being falsely portrayed as the “tiny little company” that beat the big guys.

One question for you: Let us ASSUME that the Japanese make more reliable cars. WHY IS THAT? Are Japanese people smarter? Is GM’s unionized workforce to blame for producing problematic cars? WHY ARE JAPANESE CARS [supposedly] MORE RELIABLE?

“Honda doesnt offer such a warranty cuz their cars DONT FAIL ! ”

That’s why mine is still running, right? No, It was the worst car I ever owned.

designer5: Toyota builds cars about as well as you build sentences

R-Head, Commodore: Buth the Closest Subaru dealer and the mazda dealer that just opened in an exurb about 20 miles from mine had klnowledgeable salespeople who weren’t trying to bone me.

But the other mazda dealers I’ve visited over the last few months can all burn in hell.

Commodore: I disagree with yourlist of bad cars. It should read “Celebrity, Lumina, (maybe) corsica/beretta, Metro, Storm, Citation and Cimmaron.”

The cars you described aren’t bad so much as boring or ugly enough that nobody would want them.

JJT – thanks for responding. Our experience does formulate our opinions, and I can definatly see how yours would turn you off to Japanese cars.

Commodore – I appreciated your post about Japanese cars you actually like. Keep that in mind before you post too many generalizations about Japanese cars as a whole.

1115 – You have the maturity and debating skills of a pre-teen.

1c3d0g – You’re just as bad as 1115, but on the other end of the spectrum.

“boring or ugly enough that nobody would want them” – to me, that constitutes a “bad” car. You are right that they aren’t horrible, but I wanted to give some recent examples of bad cars from GM as opposed to listing cars from 20 years ago like 1115 does.Either way, all the cars I mentioned were and are uncompetitive. Their replacements are much better and show the contrast between THEN and NOW, and the progress GM has made after that huge $ loss in ‘05.

Cyclone of Red:

Oh, you would be surprised by how many Japanese cars I would put in my “Good” category. Nearly every car Japan makes is at least decent in my book..I guess I don’t mention that a lot. However, my point is that our cars are often just as decent as Japan’s and in an increasing number of cases, ours are better. I feel that Americans (particularly GM) have pretty much caught up to Japan in reliability, they will soon catch up in resales (they are already ahead in pickup resales), and we already make more appealing cars visually. Let me stop right here though.

[I think] you support my point. We should not be making generalizations at all. You would be an idiot to say anything along the lines of “Japanese cars are superior” (sorry, I think I quoted you there 1115). You would be wrong to imply that ALL Japanese cars are better than ANY American cars (and vice verse). We should not be making generalizations, we should go on a case by case basis. (And by “you”, I didn’t actually mean ‘you’ Cyclone)

First your WIKI article has no year as to when Hyundai made their warranty until proven otherwise they came in the US with it It quoted Shady Powers which is a pay for play and cant be trusted at all even if they say Japanese cars are better. KBB bitch KBB I told you that
I love how you say “Lets say Japanese are more reliable” and play dumb as if they are not You say GM “made” crap as if they still are not. GM has cars with no track records and a past of making **** and they will continue
Toyota doesnt have to issue a warranty because they are doing recalls to make sure that their cars dont fail. GM was finally backed into a position where they couldn’t even sell a car without a warranty
Cyclone shut up you are just like Commo, in denial of the more reliable higher resale and more trusted vehicles that come from Japan . I dont make the rules but I do follow them and Japanese cars are more reliable and that is a fact. You can call me whatever you want and deny it but it doesnt make it any better only time can
JJT ytou are a LIAR no Honda Civic is going to fail at 91k.

commodore;
I believe that car’s from certain countries have certain strenght’s.
japanese;relaibiltiy
german;attention to detail,quality
italian;design
american;character
french;not much at the minute.
i don’t think any car nation can build the perfect car,im jus being rational.
the new CTS is the best car GM has made so far( one of my favourie car’s).however the japanese will continue to put up a fight as there car’s which were once the equilivent of white good’s have become both desirable and reliable.
it’s a close run

Wow. I gotta ask, who’s not laughing at the arguments on this page? Because I can’t stop.

Tripleonefive; I can’t stop laughing at the statement “Toyota doesnt have to issue a warranty because they are doing recalls to make sure that their cars dont fail.”

Buddy, do me a favor. Tilt your head up to the very top of the screen, and read to me the headliner.
…
Does it say anything about a recall for that flawed V-6? And not only that, but the Toyota Aurion has been (or was) put on hold… because of the same V-6 in the Aurion! And yet, even on their press release and the LLN article, it mentions “not because of the supercharger or power output”, so what is it? The damn same engine that’s in the Camry, that hasn’t been recalled!

And how long did it take for Toyota to recall all those silly floor mats? It took a NHTSA investigation and almost a year and a half to even make Toyota consider recalling some rubbish floormats!
And it takes Nissan almost 10 years to recall their troubled SUV’s! No, not two or three years, which is about when I’d expect for the problems to show up, but 10 years!

On the other hand, Chrysler recalls 29,000 Jeeps on account of breakpads. Guess what? No NHTSA investigation, and NO accidents!
And here’s another report on LLN:

“Chrysler has announced the recall of 296,500 2006 and 2007 model year Jeep Grand Cherokees, Commanders, Wranglers and Dodge Nitros. The recall is due to a an electronic unit that could delay braking while coasting uphill, possibility resulting in a crash. The recall was initiated after the company received a report of one accident”
So, what does that tell you buddy?

What makes you so sure that a Honda Civic isn’t going to fail at 91k miles? I personally know of a friend who owned a Honda Civic Hatchback, and the engine was beyond repair at around 50k miles. They bought it brand new, no abuse, and no folly. I also know that I’ve seen quite a few at the shop before, it seems they’ve all have some sort of engine related problem.

In other words, your saying Honda’s invincible, correct? Sorry, but your wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong, and in your style of banging American Automanufacuters, Honda could “Go down just like the Big American Automanufacturers did!”.

My “bought new off the lot made in Japan” Honda seriously failed at 63k miles, meaning it sputtered to a stop on the freeway in rush hour. It was a repairable failure unlike JJT’s 91k claim (fuel injection issue – something hosed in the electronics that control it) but an out-of-warranty failure nonetheless.

Also the car had electrical issues, with headlamps buring out right and left. You could set your watch to it – about every 12,000 miles the lamps would burn out. It was so regular I kept an eye out for sales to stock up on bulbs and keep them in the trunk. Also had cooling system issues, A/C issues, structural rigidity problems, interior plastic components that I never touched would crack, and once (only once) with the cruise engaged at about 65 the car started giving it gas on its own. The road was fairly empty so no danger and I had friends in the car who were checking it out (no foot on the gas like they thought) and it got to 80 before I disengaged the clutch and switched off the motor while coasting (restarted after 10 seconds). That was under warranty and the dealer told me I was wrong (although I had witnesses). The dealer also told me there was no way the headlamps burn out that often, and said that I must be crawling through the car breaking the plastics.

Point is, there were problems with the Honda that arose very quickly and the warranty related ones were barely addressed (I did get some plastic parts). Dealer treatment after the purchase was atrocious, basically, and the Honda experience proved to be nothing above the ordinary. I’ve had far worse experiences with Audi, BMW, and Jeep, similar or better with GM and Ford. My sister’s Toyota seems to be a fair vehicle also, but again not out of the ordinary (or what you’d reasonably expect). Doesn’t mean I’ll never buy a Honda again but it does mean that there is no favor to Honda, as I won’t blind myself to alternatives that clearly are at least as good in my experience.

BTW – resale means jack to me. Typically as a percentage of actual net price paid, there is not a load of difference (1115, public stats are based on % of MSRP yielding a false denominator) and since Honda’s sell at retail closer to MSRP vs similar domestic offerings, I can take that difference, invest it, and combined have a load more come resale time than you would get for your Honda.

more **** talk . i can’t take this **** no more.
it’s just flowing like horse excrement all over this topic.

Why can’t you take it? Because your indiscriminately wrong? Because you can’t make a good point, and only go around and around in circles?

Your not being rational. A cars characteristics aren’t exclusive to a certain country, you probably come to that conclusion to the most prominent marks in that country. America can make a car very atuned to detail and speed, the Germans can make very reliable cars, and the Japanese are no longer reliable. That sort of view you have is being taken down at the moment.

Side tracking some… The way I see it, GM is saying “your on our territory, but if you want to play it by your rules, then bring it on” to the Japanese, with the upcoming Malibu. They’re combining the simple traits of the Japanese with their own mark and technology. And I think the Malibu is going to do an amazing job when it comes at this, but we’ll just have to wait until then.

1115 – Actually one of my cars is a Honda Accord and I love it. 190,000 and it still runs perfectly and has never had any major issues apart from standard maintanance. Also, as I have said many times, I don’t like Toyota because of styling. I do think they are good cars. So let us consider your statement proof of my previous comment.

Commodore – Agree 100%.

the mailibu based on the elipson platform. yea right this underpins,saab 9-3 the european vectra etc rubbish cars. do u have some sort of lickass relationship with GM. you wud think u were gettin paid for propaganda.
the thing about german cars being reliable is wrong. the are middle of the road in terms of relaibility.
in terms of fit and finish they are the best.
refer to the facts of the latest consumer rating’s report.
how much more clear can it be.
I think the fact that GM is now world 2nd largest car manufacturer kill’s you how sad. i don’t even like Toyota products,but the are quality products.
GM has destroyed many brands that it has controlled.
IZUZU( exploited it’s diesel technology). SAAB ( made it medicore) and was rubbish when it controlled part of subaru.it can’t even preform in the luxury sector and it has 3 brand’s to do so (BUICK,CADILLAC,SAAB).only 2 gud car’s from those brand’s (CTS and lucrene). lexus is still the no1 luxury brand stateside.

Benz did a good job of destroying Chrysler, too, and Diahatsu isn’t exactly flourishing under Toyota. SAAB was always mediocre to begin with.

BTW, I don’t care is the new Malibu is on the epsilon platform or whatever you think is rubbish, cardesigner. I think it will offer a reasonable, highly competitive, and sportier alternative to the Camry and Accord, both of which are also mediocre, albeit decent common transportation. I think it was CNN that said it best … something along the lines of
….. “Americans have decided that they are perfectly willing to buy boring
….. tranportation appliances from Toyota and Honda, but not from GM and Ford.”
Ford hasn’t figured that our yet, but GM has, and it shows in improved sales of their new products. As to my subjective thoughts on the Malibu, the interior styling looks to be better than the new Accord or Camry, and everything between the nose and the ass looks good. In the pictures something about the front and back ends looks odd, so I’ll wait till I see one on the road, but the front and back of the Camry aren’t good looking either, and the front/back of the new Accord are at best vanilla. If the new Malibu were not out and I wanted a car in that segment right now I would focus on the Sonata or the Aura, because for the money they offer the best combination of style, reliability, and “fun” (if you call it that).

‘1115′ = import monkey.

‘Lambo’ = ugly, homosexual butt plugger

So let me consider you wrong Cyclone Nice try Im happy that you all of the sudden drive a Honda. Why dont you trade it in for an AURA or Malibu ?I cant wait for your next post so I can hear what car you are driving then

I can not belive the AURA got NA COTY. it’s based on the european market opel/vauhall signum. it has a similar interior,same chassis etc and americans think it a grrttt car.the equilvent car has been stated as average/**** in europe. americans are also excited about the saturn astra, a car that is beaten by most of it’s rivals in europe.
it’s seem’s that anything GM makes, americans soil themselves over.
and the thing about daihatsu, it is very profitable and contrates making small car’s.
+ it was chrylser that destroyed BENZ
(which company was good in the first place) chrylser ruined mercedes quality and it’s products hit the ****ters,it’s only starting to recover now.

even the ford CEO drives a lexus LS430 (he declarred it has the best car in the world)
has america’s second biggest car company got nothing to offer him.
naaa didn’t think sooooooo.

cardesigner started off biased then switched to neutral then switched back to biased with the last 2 posts.
i had a toyota pickup (1988) that was just garbage, by buddy has a 1982 toyota 4 x 4 that is just as bullet proof as anything can get, my personal experience with toyota is less than positive (thats why my truck is a nissan) but his experience with toyota solidifies his bias.
all of us have had different experiences with THE CARS ACTUALLY SOLD IN AMERICA YOU STUPID MORONS, STOP WITH MY CAR NEVER SOLD IN AMERICA IS BETTER, HOW WOULD WE KNOW, JEEBUS F`N CRIKEY.

please dont say stuff like that it is below your above average mentality.

Comment by CTS DRIVER, posted on October19 at 5:59 pm
.here is what i said,
.
here is what you read
Below average mentality? Sauerkraut and chopsticks?
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PAGE 2?

Comment by tripleonefive, posted on October19 at 6:50 pm
.
please try to make an effort to comprehend what we are saying to you 1115, not everything is attacking you even when we conceed your facts you take it wrong and this is clear proof of that. no matter how many times we conceed gm cars 20 years ago were complete wastes of paint compared to the great cars they make today you seem unable to even give us a small agreement.
i know you are very intellegent, it is obvious in the way you post, but come on already dude can we start talking cars on an enthisiast level someday please.

1115 = very intelligent? He keeps making the same misguided points over and over again. Maybe he’s really ‘W’? “Sometimes you have to repeat the propoganda…”

i don’t pick sides. how can I be biased toward’s toyota when i would’nt even buy one. im only pointing out that there are some gud american cars but the bad one’s counterbalance them as there are so may ****TER’S

^that i will always agree with, its just the blanket statements that i would never agree with, yes the bad outnumbed the good at one point but now i think the good outnumbers the bad.

Cyclone of Red: I’m not turned off of Japanese cars. I owned a mazda and i’d buy another, and I’m seriously considering the GT-R as my midlife crisis car.

Commodore: OK.

tripleonefluffer: “I dont make the rules but I do follow them and Japanese cars are more reliable and that is a fact.”

No, it’s not. That’s a conclusion you’re reaced based on whatever criteria you use. I think you only use one criterion, though: made in japan.

RicardoHead: I knew a well-endowed girl who’s ‘98 Civic quit on her in ‘98 on the freeway. It happened several times, and she just accepted it, because, “it’s a honda; they’re invincible.”
Your civic story sounds eerily familiar.

jJay: I like the new Malibu, but it’s almost garish enough to be a Pontiac.

cardesigner5 “l—s” is tyhe number-one faux-luxury bbrand stateside. At least by sales.

RicardoHead: I think the new accord looks better (by a nose) than the new malibu

cardesigner5, to quote a sanitized Sam Jackson: ENGLISH, LITTLE SUCKER; DO YOU SPEAK IT?

injunraiv: “Maybe he’s really ‘W’?” Interestinmg possibility