Commodore: OK.

tripleonefluffer: “I dont make the rules but I do follow them and Japanese cars are more reliable and that is a fact.”

No, it’s not. That’s a conclusion you’re reaced based on whatever criteria you use. I think you only use one criterion, though: made in japan.

RicardoHead: I knew a well-endowed girl who’s ‘98 Civic quit on her in ‘98 on the freeway. It happened several times, and she just accepted it, because, “it’s a honda; they’re invincible.”
Your civic story sounds eerily familiar.

jJay: I like the new Malibu, but it’s almost garish enough to be a Pontiac.

cardesigner5 “l—s” is tyhe number-one faux-luxury bbrand stateside. At least by sales.

RicardoHead: I think the new accord looks better (by a nose) than the new malibu

cardesigner5, to quote a sanitized Sam Jackson: ENGLISH, LITTLE SUCKER; DO YOU SPEAK IT?

injunraiv: “Maybe he’s really ‘W’?” Interestinmg possibility

Comment by CTS DRIVER, posted on October19 at 5:59 pm
.here is what i said,
.
here is what you read
Below average mentality? Sauerkraut and chopsticks?
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PAGE 2?

Comment by tripleonefive, posted on October19 at 6:50 pm
.
please try to make an effort to comprehend what we are saying to you 1115, not everything is attacking you even when we conceed your facts you take it wrong and this is clear proof of that. no matter how many times we conceed gm cars 20 years ago were complete wastes of paint compared to the great cars they make today you seem unable to even give us a small agreement.
i know you are very intellegent, it is obvious in the way you post, but come on already dude can we start talking cars on an enthisiast level someday please.

‘Lambo’ = ugly, homosexual butt plugger

BTW, I don’t care is the new Malibu is on the epsilon platform or whatever you think is rubbish, cardesigner. I think it will offer a reasonable, highly competitive, and sportier alternative to the Camry and Accord, both of which are also mediocre, albeit decent common transportation. I think it was CNN that said it best … something along the lines of
….. “Americans have decided that they are perfectly willing to buy boring
….. tranportation appliances from Toyota and Honda, but not from GM and Ford.”
Ford hasn’t figured that our yet, but GM has, and it shows in improved sales of their new products. As to my subjective thoughts on the Malibu, the interior styling looks to be better than the new Accord or Camry, and everything between the nose and the ass looks good. In the pictures something about the front and back ends looks odd, so I’ll wait till I see one on the road, but the front and back of the Camry aren’t good looking either, and the front/back of the new Accord are at best vanilla. If the new Malibu were not out and I wanted a car in that segment right now I would focus on the Sonata or the Aura, because for the money they offer the best combination of style, reliability, and “fun” (if you call it that).

Commodore – Agree 100%.

Your not being rational. A cars characteristics aren’t exclusive to a certain country, you probably come to that conclusion to the most prominent marks in that country. America can make a car very atuned to detail and speed, the Germans can make very reliable cars, and the Japanese are no longer reliable. That sort of view you have is being taken down at the moment.

Side tracking some… The way I see it, GM is saying “your on our territory, but if you want to play it by your rules, then bring it on” to the Japanese, with the upcoming Malibu. They’re combining the simple traits of the Japanese with their own mark and technology. And I think the Malibu is going to do an amazing job when it comes at this, but we’ll just have to wait until then.

Also the car had electrical issues, with headlamps buring out right and left. You could set your watch to it – about every 12,000 miles the lamps would burn out. It was so regular I kept an eye out for sales to stock up on bulbs and keep them in the trunk. Also had cooling system issues, A/C issues, structural rigidity problems, interior plastic components that I never touched would crack, and once (only once) with the cruise engaged at about 65 the car started giving it gas on its own. The road was fairly empty so no danger and I had friends in the car who were checking it out (no foot on the gas like they thought) and it got to 80 before I disengaged the clutch and switched off the motor while coasting (restarted after 10 seconds). That was under warranty and the dealer told me I was wrong (although I had witnesses). The dealer also told me there was no way the headlamps burn out that often, and said that I must be crawling through the car breaking the plastics.

Point is, there were problems with the Honda that arose very quickly and the warranty related ones were barely addressed (I did get some plastic parts). Dealer treatment after the purchase was atrocious, basically, and the Honda experience proved to be nothing above the ordinary. I’ve had far worse experiences with Audi, BMW, and Jeep, similar or better with GM and Ford. My sister’s Toyota seems to be a fair vehicle also, but again not out of the ordinary (or what you’d reasonably expect). Doesn’t mean I’ll never buy a Honda again but it does mean that there is no favor to Honda, as I won’t blind myself to alternatives that clearly are at least as good in my experience.

BTW – resale means jack to me. Typically as a percentage of actual net price paid, there is not a load of difference (1115, public stats are based on % of MSRP yielding a false denominator) and since Honda’s sell at retail closer to MSRP vs similar domestic offerings, I can take that difference, invest it, and combined have a load more come resale time than you would get for your Honda.

Tripleonefive; I can’t stop laughing at the statement “Toyota doesnt have to issue a warranty because they are doing recalls to make sure that their cars dont fail.”

Buddy, do me a favor. Tilt your head up to the very top of the screen, and read to me the headliner.
…
Does it say anything about a recall for that flawed V-6? And not only that, but the Toyota Aurion has been (or was) put on hold… because of the same V-6 in the Aurion! And yet, even on their press release and the LLN article, it mentions “not because of the supercharger or power output”, so what is it? The damn same engine that’s in the Camry, that hasn’t been recalled!

And how long did it take for Toyota to recall all those silly floor mats? It took a NHTSA investigation and almost a year and a half to even make Toyota consider recalling some rubbish floormats!
And it takes Nissan almost 10 years to recall their troubled SUV’s! No, not two or three years, which is about when I’d expect for the problems to show up, but 10 years!

On the other hand, Chrysler recalls 29,000 Jeeps on account of breakpads. Guess what? No NHTSA investigation, and NO accidents!
And here’s another report on LLN:

“Chrysler has announced the recall of 296,500 2006 and 2007 model year Jeep Grand Cherokees, Commanders, Wranglers and Dodge Nitros. The recall is due to a an electronic unit that could delay braking while coasting uphill, possibility resulting in a crash. The recall was initiated after the company received a report of one accident”
So, what does that tell you buddy?

What makes you so sure that a Honda Civic isn’t going to fail at 91k miles? I personally know of a friend who owned a Honda Civic Hatchback, and the engine was beyond repair at around 50k miles. They bought it brand new, no abuse, and no folly. I also know that I’ve seen quite a few at the shop before, it seems they’ve all have some sort of engine related problem.

In other words, your saying Honda’s invincible, correct? Sorry, but your wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong, and in your style of banging American Automanufacuters, Honda could “Go down just like the Big American Automanufacturers did!”.

Cyclone of Red:

Oh, you would be surprised by how many Japanese cars I would put in my “Good” category. Nearly every car Japan makes is at least decent in my book..I guess I don’t mention that a lot. However, my point is that our cars are often just as decent as Japan’s and in an increasing number of cases, ours are better. I feel that Americans (particularly GM) have pretty much caught up to Japan in reliability, they will soon catch up in resales (they are already ahead in pickup resales), and we already make more appealing cars visually. Let me stop right here though.

[I think] you support my point. We should not be making generalizations at all. You would be an idiot to say anything along the lines of “Japanese cars are superior” (sorry, I think I quoted you there 1115). You would be wrong to imply that ALL Japanese cars are better than ANY American cars (and vice verse). We should not be making generalizations, we should go on a case by case basis. (And by “you”, I didn’t actually mean ‘you’ Cyclone)

Commodore – I appreciated your post about Japanese cars you actually like. Keep that in mind before you post too many generalizations about Japanese cars as a whole.

1115 – You have the maturity and debating skills of a pre-teen.

1c3d0g – You’re just as bad as 1115, but on the other end of the spectrum.

That’s why mine is still running, right? No, It was the worst car I ever owned.

designer5: Toyota builds cars about as well as you build sentences

R-Head, Commodore: Buth the Closest Subaru dealer and the mazda dealer that just opened in an exurb about 20 miles from mine had klnowledgeable salespeople who weren’t trying to bone me.

But the other mazda dealers I’ve visited over the last few months can all burn in hell.

Commodore: I disagree with yourlist of bad cars. It should read “Celebrity, Lumina, (maybe) corsica/beretta, Metro, Storm, Citation and Cimmaron.”

The cars you described aren’t bad so much as boring or ugly enough that nobody would want them.

I am aware that the American cars have sucked in the past (like the OLD cts, but not the new one). That is because Americans focused on high-profit SUVs and pickups and ignored the car segment. They have learned their lesson and are killing off their bad cars like the Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, Aztek, Cavalier, Catera, L-Series, Ion, Rendezverous, Rainier, Century, Regal, and so on and replacing them with new ones. (Look at the difference between Cavalier and the replacement Cobalt or between the old Malibu and the new one). The public will warm up to these cars soon. On the other hand, when Toyota becomes #1 at the end of this year, like every other #1 company, they will be severely criticized. The recent reliability problems and boring designs and lack of exciting product will take the spot light and Toy’s reputation might tank. This is what happened when GM was #1 for so long. People began to criticize them and they had a near death experience. That all comes with being #1…Toyota will soon be seen as another corporate titan rather than being falsely portrayed as the “tiny little company” that beat the big guys.

One question for you: Let us ASSUME that the Japanese make more reliable cars. WHY IS THAT? Are Japanese people smarter? Is GM’s unionized workforce to blame for producing problematic cars? WHY ARE JAPANESE CARS [supposedly] MORE RELIABLE?

1115 – so first you say that Hyundai offered a big warranty because they wanted to stand by their cars, then you say that GM offered theirs because their cars sucked, and then you have that Honda did NOT offer one because their cars were so good they didn’t need it? A lot of contradiction there with the Hyundai/Honda warranties and of course more anti-GM bias. If I were buying a car, I’d feel better buying one from a company like Hyundai or GM rather than from a company like Honda so on the warranty issue Hyundai and GM beat Honda. Also, I have a feeling that in a few years Toy will come out with a big warranty to re-assure the public that their cars are still good (even though they are recalling them by the millions). Uhh, there goes the patriot thing again…. Go to the “Kia plans to launch green vehicles by 2009″ thread and check out my post about “my patriotism” – you should go read it too cardesigner5.

cardesigner5 – So now you are saying that Jap cars built in America are of lesser quality than the Jap cars built in Japan? Uh oh, I sense a ’stupid American rednecks’ post coming. But anyway, thanks for letting me know that. I hope the public will also soon realize that the Camry, Tundra, Sonata, Armada, Titan, Santa Fe, and all the rest are of the same quality as the American cars built here.

Went to a Honda dealer recently to check out an S2000. The sales help was so putzy and uninformed I walked out. That putzy uninformed crap plays well to soccer moms, but not to people who want facts before they buy. I have no doubt that both Honda and Toyota make good cars, but IMHExperience they are simply not above the rest as some would have you believe. Next time if I end up buying Japanese then it’ll probably be a Mazda or Infiniti and if American then some form of GM.

Oh yeah, 1115, that thing called honor you brought up … save that BS for the Klingons.

The Japanese and the koreans have a little thing called honor, not honor meaning buy american bc you are american, honor meaning if they make something unreliable they back it up with a warranty or recall so THEY can fix it so the consumer trusts them and continues to buy the product. I dont think Honda or Toyota should make any cars in the US they should move them to Mexico like Hmmm GM

Bottom line GM sucks Honda and Toyota have better quality vehicles and Hyundai put more money into R & D why didnt GM do that in the 90’s? If they had they wouldnt be getting their selfish POS car building asses handed to them by the Japanese

how clearer could it be. can you not make out FACTS.

TO END OPINON ON THIS FORUM . CHECK CONSUMER RATINGS. THE JAPANESE STILL RULE.

END OF , END OF.

However, I will respond to the part about Hyundai. You allege that they offered the good warranty out of the goodness of their hearts or came to America with it or something like that. Well, since you LOVE wikipedia so much here is a quote from there:

“Rather than drop out of the world’s largest automotive market, the parent company of Hyundai began investing heavily in the quality, design, manufacturing, and long-term research of its vehicles. It added a 10-year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty to its vehicles sold in the United States. In 20 years, both quality and sales dramatically increased, and the reputation of Hyundai cars improved. In 2004, Hyundai tied with Honda for initial brand quality (quality of engine parts not factored in) in a survey/study from J.D. Power and Associates, for having 102 problems per 100 vehicles. This made Hyundai second in the industry, only behind Toyota, for initial vehicle quality. The company continued this tradition by placing third overall in J.D. Power’s 2006 Initial Quality Survey, behind only Porsche and Lexus.”

Hyundai began the warranty AFTER their colossal failure, the Excel, showed its true colors and America thought of Hyundai as the most unreliable company. They began the warranty because their product and reputation sucked and they wanted to persuade people to take a chance on their cars if though they were perceived as unreliable, and a long warranty is a good way to do that. The warranty wasn’t offered because they wanted to ’stand by their cars’ (why doesn’t Honda offer such a warranty then?)

QUOTE:
“If you are an americn who grew up on american cars then a Japanese car company becomes #1 wouldnt that make you skip a few QC checks, forget a bolt here & there or not tighen something ?
Just a theory folks. Nov 22nd is coming up soon” – COMMENT BY 1115

You have GOT to be kidding me. Now you allege that American workers have patriotically united in order to destroy Toyotas reputation?????? Is there anything you would NOT say in defense of Toyota?? Even when all the facts say that they are building less reliable cars, you still make up some fictional story to defend them. Why?? They suck, get over them.