Where are all the domestic bashers? Toyota is hurting and asking for government money too. The auto industry is in a crisis, not just the domestic automakers. And, don’t forget about all the US government money that was given to the foreign brands years ago in the form of tax breaks to build factories in the states. These tax breaks were GIVEN to them, not LOANS like the domestics are getting.

Yes, it is true that management of the D3 share in the blame as does the Government. Management was myopic and slow to respond to the marketplace; the government, at all levels, was only to happy to get the political benefits of UAW support and D3 infrastructure. However, it’s the UAW that must chiefly bear the brunt of the blame. One More Time for Posterity:

You can’t allow foreign manufacturers, who can produce competing products at significantly lower cost, unfettered access to a domestic market – Period! The key point here is why a non domestic producer, whether they manufacture locally or not, has lower costs?/! For example, take GM and Toyota, two plants side by side with exactly the same product, e.g., a Camry, same production lines and parts; before the first car rolls off the line GM is in the hole $2000 plus per vehicle. How do you compete when your fixed costs are that much higher – something has to give? Now spread this out over 30 plus years and throw in favorable exchange rates (for most of the period), government sponsored R & D, i.e., what Washington does with Boeing and Lockheed Martin et al., no legacy costs and public health care etc.

The era of Big Labor is over if the US has any pretense at all of maintaining/supporting a modern, non defense, high tech value added manufacturing base. As many have said, Mullaly – well done – was lucky in mortgaging Ford’s assets when he did; however, they are not that far off from being in the same position as their peers. How will this play out among the inter-relationships among the vested parties…

The next two to six months are going to be very interesting. Just best to sit back and watch it all play out as the rumor mills and innuendo have already begun.

DB9;-)

Oops, my bad, the first part got cut off…

So what else is new?/! What would be more compelling would be to ask where Toyota would be if they were saddled with the D3’s Legacy Costs? What would be the numbers for a Toyota HMO & Pension corp.; a company that just happens to build automobiles on the side?

DB9;-)

BLAME THE UAW! BLAME THE UAW!

I know someone else whose expecting a major loss… JohnnyC!!!

DB9 and gta89mike great posts. I agree with you 100%. I wonder if cars like the Fusion and Focus would be built in the USA if the playing field was even… or to take that further if the Japs had the D3s legacy costs today would their Camays and civics and accords and corollas be built in Mexico or in China like the Yaris is right now?

I love analysis above on part of LLN and commenting public. During 2008 per article Toyota lost less then 5 billion dollars and will probably loose next year the same or a bit more. We, us taxpayers (primarily working stiffs outside of auto industry and outside of appointed government positions), have pissed on GM alone over 13 billion dollars in last 5 months. How do you compare possible loss of 10 billions in 2 years to actual loss of 13 billions in 5 months? Do those numbers mean anything or hate blinds any possible ability to think?

What is it they call Missouri- the Show-Me state? Does that refer to directions to the golf course Jake?

Only to the Canuckleheads that can’t reason distances are measured in miles, not kilometers in the US.

DB9, I agree 100%!

lol:-)) Priorities, yes indeed?/! Too Damn Funny:-)) When it comes to Government spending the Auto sector currently at ~$20B (and growing) as compared to the Financial sector ~$1500B ($1.5Trillion and growing) plus the $120B per year on Iraq and other prolifigate spending, $20,000 per household, in a country with an ~14Trillion GDP. Someone wants to get schooled;-)

An aside, big labor is associated with… Wall street and the Banks… this is going to be entertaining indeed;-))

Personally, I could care less – let foreign manufacturers run the market. What are the long-term implications of this…? This is not the UK experience of the 1970’s! The overall dynamic political/geographic/economic are vastly different. Although, at current and projected government spending – the economic part…

DB9;-)

Actually LLN, in 2008 the yen APPRECIATED against the dollar and euro adding to Toyota’s losses, not DEpreciated.

Sheesh

I love the analysis of a certain poster here who constantly tries to punish the doling of tax money to domestics which when compared to money, orders of magnitude larger in sum, that has been paid to the counterparties of failed OTC derivative bets, is miniscule.

Please put things in perspective and begin posting intelligent thoughts.

“the “Toyota Way” has long been seen as the benchmark for efficiency and quality” They still are…

“These tax breaks were GIVEN to them, not LOANS like the domestics are getting” If Gm make use of the chapter 11 will they still have to give your money back? Had Gm taken any tax reliefs for any new factories in Usa? Aren’t the americans buying imported products exporting bilions to other countries and forcing your own factories to find cheaper production elseware?

Blame globalisation instead.

I cannot wait to hear all you jap fanboys commenting on this one.

Is anyone surprised?? This is what happens when a company expands too rapidly. They should have learned from GM’s mistakes. I know as a company you want to expand, but there were signs the market was failing long before this. Toyota should have braced itself. Hopefully Toyota will get back to what they do best- make reliable cars. Overtaking GM has hurt them.

Just goes to show that the Senate Finance Committee really jumped the gun by laying all the blame on the domestics. I agree with the posts on the legacy costs. Every one of the foreign countries has some form of a nationalized health care system; hence no need for legacy costs. If we are going to insist upon GM and Chrysler shed their legacy costs, abandoning thousands of citizens who depend upon them, then perhaps we should also insist on the same for all other businesses regardless of their current state – all in the name of staying competitive with our foreign competition. After all, shouldn’t every citizen in this country be offered the same opportunities?

“How do you compare possible loss of 10 billions in 2 years to actual loss of 13 billions in 5 months? Do those numbers mean anything or hate blinds any possible ability to think?”

are you stupid? A and B are unrelated. GM got 13.4B in loans and if they survive the money will be paid back with interest. Toyota is reporting an operating loss on their operations. If Toyota had GM’s cost structure (healthcare, pensions, etc.) they would be losing far more money. BTW, GM hasn’t even spent all of its money yet- this is why they told the government they didnt need more money last month. Their cash burn rate has slowed due to cuts made last year.

We were told GM is in trouble do to bad management and the UAW. Why is Toyota in trouble?

Well, most of the people I know driving Toyotas have been doing so for a long time. Including me. My 89 runs like brand new, and the only problems I’ve had were some transmission issues, and a flat tire.

Maybe Toyotas aren’t selling because the ones that people already own are still running fine?

They ought to set them up to break down sooner………

But, in seriousness, this can be an issue. Their cars stay on the road longer, but they still make huge amounts of brand new cars. They need to tone down their sheer volume, since they’re producing over demand. I don’t think it’s as complicated as people make it seem. When demand goes down, tone down production.

Good thoughts DB9 and Teahead, but I have to take a different view. The problem is not the UAW, it’s an issue of gov’t policy… a policy that makes our markets easy access to foreign companies. Companies that for the most part don’t pay state taxes, don’t design, engineer or test in the USA. Companies that don’t support philanthropic causes. Companies that don’t offer aid to American and foreign citizens in physical, financial, environmental and/or economic trouble.

Only a small portion of vehicle sales price goes to the men and women that assemble them (< $1000/vehicle). The loin’s share is shipped back to the mother company to be spent on R&D, pay local suppliers and feed the tax base of their home country. What did you American’s think was going to happen when you started shipping your hard earned cash to a foreign country? … Your standard of living was going to go up? HA! Call or write your congressmen today. Free trade is BS… Equitable/balanced trade is the only sustainable way forward. Look to South America, or China, or Japan! Try to sell your goods there without being taxed out of the market. Until our govt. comes to its sense, you all can make a difference by voting with your wallet… Buy American while you still can, and I mean while there are still American companies left to buy from, and you still have a job that affords you some spending power.

yorarideryamarider- Buy American while you still can isn’t bad advice I guess, but in this economic climate I don’t think it’s smart (in the scope of personal interest) of most people to buy AT ALL.

…buy American while you still can? I think you’ve forgotten how great Ford is doing.

Ford’s in fine shape.

So, no rush. Buy Ford whenever you’re ready.

I just hope sales rebound soon, consumer confidence increases, that GM and Chrysler get back to healthy positions and that we can emerge a better, more flexible company. We have the cash reserves to ride out the storm. I have not doubt that whenever we right-size our inventory and production, we won’t have an issue getting into the black.

“Forgotten how great Ford is doing… ”

Great! No one is doing great! Ford made some good moves early and is well positioned, but if americans don’t start buying american, all three, I fear, will fail. Don’t get me worng, I hope Ford, GM and Chrysler the best. It’s in everyones interest to put money back into the economy… “all we have to fear, is fear itself!” As for “No rush…” BS.

Auto Makers are only losing sells right now because of the crisis. who is willing to buy any car right now when they they might get laid off tomorrow even with the ford advantage plan and hyundai and gm assurance plans. If ego boosting BMW and Mercedes is loosing sales what makes you think any other automaker will do well?

Yay