I dont think toyota need to worry as much as they think. Toyota is widely regarded as a reliable, well built value for money car. The toyota prius is pusing the clean green image and they also have huge world wide sponsorship programs. Not many people will fully comprehend what the claims that Toyota is artificially adjusting the value of the yen means to them. Im no financial expert but if a weeker yen means a cheeper car for me… more power to em.

“weaker”

I agree, I don’t see there being much backlash as this country already embraces Toyota and other imports. I believe they will eventually fall under the microscope like GM and people will scrutinize their products as well. I don’t see a lot of workers losing their jobs because Toyota takes the number one spot anyway. All because they are the sales leader doesn’t mean anyone else is making any less money, or selling any fewer vehicles. If anything I think most people will throw Toyota a party. lol

Toyota, as a byproduct of its ultralean manufacturing and worldwide scope, puts out the most least exciting, most anonymous cars on the road year after year. It’s a shame to see any American being drawn into their big brother orwellian propaganda. The fact is they won’t lose any favor here by overtaking GM and if Toyota wants to make sure of it, propose a merger or a bail-out (maybe more like a coup). GM will have no choice but to admit defeat by the hand of the Japanese (how ironic), but better to do so pre-emptively and avert the accelerated embarassment of GM and American manufacturing innefficienies in general. Are you listening Kirk Kerkorian?

they sound paranoid hahahahaha

“least exciting”

Injecting life into their vehicles to appeal to a broader market!?!? Are you kidding? There is a reason the Camry and Corolla sell in such vast numbers, they are well engineered, well manufactured vehicles! That is obviously what most consumers want in their car. If they make their vehicles too outrageously styled, or ‘quirky’ they will only LOSE marketshare. Just look at the Dodge Caliber. Funk design, lousy engineering and build quality.
Quality and Engineering sells, not styling or fun features.
The fact that Toyota is acknowledging their substantial position in the auto industry is smart business. They realize that they can be market leaders and set benchmarks for their competitors.

And the fact that you refer to them as “Jap Assholes” shows just who the ignorant douchbag is…

There has been a lot of comment in the press about Japan opening its markets to american auto manufacturers. All well and good, but what would GM, Ford or Chrysler sell in Japan? Cobalts? Calibers? The North American Focus? Why would a person in the Japanese home market want to buy one ?

they are jap assholes hahahhaha, eh canada

Thanks Jeff in Canada….I’ve long thought the same thing of A4 by some of the “DOUCHBAG” remarks he has made. There’s really no need for crap like that. Obviously he’s just an adolescent that’s interested in “cool” cars. He is exactly what Toyota is talking about…the jealous idiots.

Toyota’s remarks and preparation on their position is EXACTLY why they are so successful. They are aware of the possible reactions and are prepared to deal with the issues. Personally, I don’t think it’s as bad as they think either, but it looks like they are playing it safe. They (and most other “imports”) seem to be pretty well accepted and people generally understand the globalization of the industry.

Hey A4 – I’d never buy a Toyota but you’re a racist pig.

the reason their cars sell in droves is because theyre cheaper than buicks and all the old farts need something to drive. That, and parents want to buy their kid the slowest, most dated, most uninspired compact sedan on the market. Thats why they sell cars. Explain to me a logical reason why they killed off the legendary and somewhat fun Celica, and dont bother trying to use Sigh-on as an excuse.

Hey elva, I’m sure GM and Ford are thinking about you too when their products are made in Mexico and Canada. If it wasn’t for Japan and Europe, you’d still be driving a car that was made today and hasn’t changed since the 50s.

Hey Jeff in Canada… did you read the comments by Buzz Hargrove re: the Chrysler layoffs? Perhaps he and A4 are related.

Ford and Buick actually sell quite well in Japan. I’ve hear they outsell Honda and Toyota there. If this is true, it reminds me of a tobacco company selling their product only to kill the consumer and no one at the company gives a rats ass. LOL

Toyota is in business to make money; no shame in doing that. If American car companies want to take back what they have lost, then they will quit their whining and shape up.

Speaking of Jap(anese) a$$holes; when I was in the airport in Japan, they had squatting toilets. Very strange, but got you thinking how older people would get back up after doing their business.

A4….tell me how an Avalon is cheaper than a Buick? Tell me how a used Avalon is cheaper than a used Buick of the same year? Show me which Buick sedan looks exciting, drives better, and is faster than the Avalon. If old farts can figure it out, I don’t know why you are having so much trouble.

There are $$$billions and $$$billions and $$$billions of reasons why they don’t need to explain anything.

I think everyone might be over looking the most important event on the page. GM#14 ever made a sane comment when he called A4 a racist pig. Wow.

I don’t think Toyota will suffer any back lash. Pretty smart though to meet the possibility head on, a very good negotiating tactic. Despite common misconceptions, Americans are very smart, especially when it comes to social responses. The Camrys and Corrolas will continue to sell very well, until that is, GM picks up more speed. No one remains at the top for long. GM may still have the most sales in the US, at this very moment, but I think in the minds of most people Toyota has been at the top for some time. Americans live and die by capitalism. They will continue to buy whatever vehicle they feel is the better alternative in terms of price, quality, design, and performance. If Toyota continues to build nice vehicles, they won’t have to whine about backlash.
The government is another thing. Japan needs to open their markets more, or they will be suffering a backlash in terms of taxes. I can’t imagine how smooth future factory openings will run if they don’t play nice with Uncle Sam.

“our competitors are jealous of our success” – is GM#1 working for toyota? if someone tell me he said that i wouldn’t deny!

The leader is always attacked. Toyota is planning multiple facilities that will bring jobs to the US worker. The worker’s benefits might not equal those at the Detroit manufacturers but they are good jobs.

I am honestly not interested who builds more cars. I could care less if it is GM, Toyota, Volkswagen.
All are competing in the same playing ground and all have different strategies. As long as the consumer continues to have multiple options from which to choose, it’s OK by me.

Myself, I don’t like Toyotas. I think they are boring, and not “cool”. Sure it sells big, and they are making a killing. I bet they set a standard, and the other car companies just might try to copy them. That will be a sad day, indeed. Transportation appliances galore!

As far as reliability…Whatever….They are not any more reliable than most other cars on the market. It’s the perception of reliability that sells them. I’d take a fun car that mostly runs over a boring car that my buddy says will run “forever” anyday. Plus, I’ve never kept the same car forever anyway.

As far as the “un-reliable” cars are concerned…I don’t mind wrenching on MY car. I’m not lazy. It takes a little more work, but it’s worth it. I get to cruise around in a sweet ride. Leave the Toyotas for the people who don’t give a **** about cars.

I posted much of this in another thread today.. seems relevant here too. I’m copying (and adding) what’s on-topic and posting it here, but if you’re interested in the original version, it’s at
http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/14/chrysler-group-announces-13000-job-cuts-plant-closure/
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Toyota deserves credit for understanding their customers in a way most other businesses would have to envy simply out of principle. If Toyota really believes the competition is jealous, I can’t say I blame them – just look at GM’s Bob Lutz whining about them in the press or Nissan’s Carlos Ghosen lamenting Toyota’s hallmark of being the leader in the hybrid market. (Not sure how much of an honor that is since hybrids are over-hyped, but I digress.) That being the case, I don’t see Ford or GM taking this lying down: the Fusion is a strong contender and selling very well; it is a car that gives Ford the credibility in the market it was missing for too long. The Saturn Aura is stunning and won North American Car of the year simply because it absolutely deserved to win. Meanwhile, Honda has never been known to rest on their laurels: the Civic is the gold standard for the compact class, and the next Accord should more than answer Toyota’s distinguished Camry. Anyone who thinks the Nissan Altima can’t compete needs professional help, and Mazda’s next-gen 6 is going to electrify the mid-size sedan class all over again.
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Just because I don’t like Toyota doesn’t mean it’s crap. It’s an excellent product that functions as advertised and it is easy to see why Toyota as a whole is so successful in the United States. Say what you will about Toyota, but they understand a thing or two about building and delivering what the market in general wants. Most drivers in the US (an undeserved compliment if there ever was one) don’t care about looks, performance, or safety nearly as much as other priorities, such as reliability and features of convenience that have nothing do with the car itself. Heated leather seats, iPOD connectivity, and power everything are more important than Variable-Valve Timing, Direct Ignition, 4-Wheel Disc brakes, or fully independent suspension designs. Most people don’t know what those are much less why they matter. The reality is that such people see a car as appliance to get them from one location to the other, and they don’t care how their car works as long as it works.
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Toyota has earned their stellar reputation for good reason, and I do believe they did deserve at the time because it was true. But as they have grown so fast, I also know they have had to cut corners in order to expand as they have. They have tried in good faith to deliver the quality supply to meet the intense demand, but I think they have bitten off more than they can chew right now. I’m beginning to see cracks in their armor, their reputation is over-rated these days when you consider the recalls on their products in 2006 where more than 2005 & 2004 combined. That’s not a small issue, and I believe Toyota is working hard to fix it. But at the Washington Auto show last month, I could see the cost-cutting all over the Camry in it’s engineering, the things are that hidden under the hood and beneath the panels. Some fit and finish issues were detected (push on the headlamps and see how they move) BUT.. where it counts to Toyota’s customers, they continue to shine. Sit inside a Camry today and it seriously feels almost like it should cost a couple grand more. Toyota’s strategy has been to spare no expense to make the best of what people will see and touch, but anything that’s going to be covered anyway doesn’t need to be “pretty” in any sense of the word. Remember, people don’t care how it works as long as it works. Toyota understands this, and has exploited the concept to incredible success.
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Selling cars has taught me more about people on the road than anything else. Nothing has made me more cynical (and borderline fixated with genuine disgust) than to see these cookie-cutter, zombified sycophants line-up in droves to support Toyota in their stated mission to continually disconnect and insulate the driver from the machine and from the open road. Toyota understands these boring, overly self-interested, and generally oblivious morons because whatever else they are, they are the majority of the automobile buying public. They have a lot of disposable income and, as such, Toyota is there with a product to sell them. I could never support a company whose ultimate goal would be to design a car that drives *me* instead of me driving the car. If it were possible for cars to get where they were going without the need for a driver, there would be depressingly huge hordes of assholes out there marching in unison and lining-up for miles to buy ‘em because they’re entirely too stupid to drive on their own and need a machine to hold their hands and think for them. THAT is why I can’t stand Toyota – they are ultimately fake and artificial. What the company as a whole represents does indeed so completely and wholly offend every sensibility and instinct I have as a skilled, experienced driver.
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Fortunately, there are other — and equally viable — ways to be successful in this business. Not all customers want what Toyota offers, and that’s where the competition comes in to clean house and kick ass. Someone like myself who values performance and technology and the athletic looks to back it up is going to want something like a Mazda 6, a Nissan Altima, or a Saturn Aura. (Though I’m pretty set on GM’s incredible G8 GT) and judging from the sales of these vehicles, there are enough people out there who agree with me. The Aura and G8 are proof of what Americans can do and I’m thrilled to be here and bear witness. Yea I know.. Americans didn’t design the G8, but they did play a big part. The striking Aura is an American design through and through, it’s just too bad the US was the last place to get it. The Toyota Camry is designed in Japan, but built in America. The excellent Ford Fusion, which is the only car in it’s class to offer AWD next to the compelling Subaru Legacy, is designed by Americans yet built in Mexico. And we all know the deal with DCX. The way GM is, they ought to rename themselves to “Global Motors” .. pretty much every car company is that way now.
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One last thing.. some people keep expressing the hope that Ford, GM, or Chrysler should die and go out of business. I will never understand what kind of asinine idiocy is required to actually advance that opinion. If only I could transport you jerks who think like this to an alternate reality where you actually got your wish, and then you would get to see first hand what kind of world that would be. Planet Earth will not cease to exist without American cars, but I dare say driving wouldn’t be anywhere nearly as much fun or even as safe. Competition breeds products we want (VVT/RWD) and need (ABS/SRS/VSC), and few industries exemplify this like the automobile business. The more choices available, the better it is for us and for them. The G8 wouldn’t be a reality in the United States if it wasn’t for — among other things — the success of the Dodge Charger, which in turn wouldn’t exist if people were not clamoring for a powerful RWD sedan to break the monotony of Accords and Camrys out there. Just think about a car about which you feel passionate – then ask yourself if it would exist at all without the competing products in it’s class. We *NEED* Toyota, Ford, Honda, GM, and DCX. Take any one of them out and we all lose something.

This guy’s comment about jealous is phucktardedly arrogant. I got no problem with Toyota’s per se other than the boring vehicle bit, plus their latest general offering have a cheap feel, but hearing this crap from an exec puts me off. It sounds like the arrogance the Big 3 once had.

Hahaha…keep me laughing. Toy Ota’s quality is a joke, everyone knows that. Only stubborn fanboys fail to realize this. Doesn’t matter though, sooner or later their choices will bite them in the ass, guaranteed. You’re going down, Toy Ota.

I love some of the American styling, but won’t waste 25K of my money to support the boys back home if they can’t make a good product. If a country is devaluing their currency (China anyone?), then it’s hurting our economy’s ability to compete. It’ll lead to more exporting of jobs (not always a bad thing) and more imports. Same thing happened to steel in the 80’s. But the bottom line is, if you make a good product, then people will buy it. Americans need to quit whining about foreign competitors and start paying attention to their products.

There is one reason Toyota is bad…

1) Auto Design

After the disappearance of the Supra, Celica, and MR-2, they are showing the world that you can design the most boring, bland, and soulless vehicles and they’ll sell… If consumers want exciting cars in the future, they should think twice before purchasing another boring toyota…

Well said Kaptain. to all the people that believe Toyota makes boring cars….if we are talking about current product you absolutely right, they are vanilla beans on wheels….a real snooze. But I have owned 3 MR2’s (two turbo’s) 4 Celica All-Trac’s (2 of which I still have, one with 380 AWHP…that’s close to 500 crank HP) and can tell you Toyota knows how to build a performance car that can take some serious abuse, try some 6000RPM clutch dumps in an Evo and see what happens….for some reason in this country we will not buy interesting Toyota’s but go crazy for the boring ones so it is what Toyota delivers to us.

“Well said Kaptain. to all the people that believe Toyota makes boring cars….if we are talking about current product you absolutely right, they are vanilla beans on wheels….a real snooze. But I have owned 3 MR2’s (two turbo’s) 4 Celica All-Trac’s (2 of which I still have, one with 380 AWHP…that’s close to 500 crank HP) and can tell you Toyota knows how to build a performance car that can take some serious abuse, try some 6000RPM clutch dumps in an Evo and see what happens….for some reason in this country we will not buy interesting Toyota’s but go crazy for the boring ones so it is what Toyota delivers to us.” – Comment by jonstew, posted on February15 at 12:38 pm
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Exactly, they know their target market well and that’s the reason they are so successful. They earned it. I guarantee would think of Toyota differently if they offered more of those awesome performance cars they used to build. (Supra, anyone?) But these days, they’ve basically become the AOL of cars, and nothing could repel me more from their products than that.

As much as this is an enthusiasts site, and as much a Kaptains comments are for the most part on target, let’s remember that for a vast number of people (not morons, just people with priorities that may be different from yours) a car is an appliance meant to get them from point A to point B with reliability and comfort. As for not being involved in the driving experience, as one who drives North America’s busiest hwy (the 401 in Toronto) on a daily basis, I would quite happily turn over the driving to some automated system for the hour long bumper to bumper moving forward 4 feet at a time slog and turn my attention to something actually productive.

Piablo – Americans are generally smart?

*The perception is that toyota is becoming more american, when their imports tot he US have sky rocketed, their domestic production is flat, and by the admission of a toyota executive is set be be a goal of only 60%.

*People talk about MAYBE building more plants, when we see the execs visiting the US, being critical about the exenditures here. Couple that with a curency manipulation and a shriking japanese market putting pressure on their production and you get a real nice **** storm.

Yeah, let’s talk about how american we are, allude to making more plants here, and fire up the lines in Japan. The honkey’s won’t notice, and the new americans won’t care.

lmao..

Toyota should hope that “boring” works for a long time to come. The last thing they would want is that suddenly driver’s cars make a sudden a lasting comeback. Their evergreen Camry, for example, would suddenly lose equity.

I don’t see this happening anytime soon, but Detroit scrapping for some hits might end up doing just that. It would be easier to produce a car that hits as many markets as possible instead of one car for every market. If Detroit heads the industry in that direction, GM certainly looks that way, “basic transportation” may get shoved to the back burner for “basic and then some”.

It will come down to a war of perceptions. If the masses believe at they only need basic transport, then that’s all they will ask for or expect. But If the masses suddenly want more, such as “FWD is not enough, give me RWD or AWD”, and Toyota does not deliver or does but at too high a cost, they may easily find themselves in FORD’s shoes in short order; slipping back with no apparent end in sight.

Toyota has “bragged” that they keep their eye on the markets and adjust accordingly. They are serving a larger constituency right now, and the largest makers will do that. I feel that Toyota may be doing Detroit a service, however, forcing the Motor City to go after the enthusiasts and the performance car fans (which they have ignored for almost a generation) and build machines that not only work well for the families with a more than a “basic needs” view to driving, but for the fans and the those who really love driving… not commuting.

Now to get those old race tracks opened up again for some good clean racing fun.

I don’t understand a lot of this Toyota boring car bashing. Are the majority of their cars appliances on wheels? Yep, that is exactly what they are. The reason why they are that way is because that is what WE want. And by we, i refer to the collective whole of car buyers in America. They are selling to the majority of the American’s who want a safe, reliable, economical washing machine that gets them the best bang for the buck.

For the Big 3 to succeed, they need to gain the trust back in the market that their washing machine is better than Toyota’s. If I have 10 customers and 9 want a “boring” washing machine and 1 that wants a truck that says “Daytona” on the side, you better believe i am going to make the Maytag car.

hey joseph i wasnt referring to the avalon, but in any case a buick lucerne equipped with a V8 is comparable to the V6 avalon. I was referring mostly to the sales of the camry and corolla which are ****boxes on wheels. At least honda and nissan invigorate their midsize-family offerings with some life.

Kaptain, as I said for the most part I agree with your statements, and for the record I am a driving enthusiast, and a graduate of the Bondurant Drving School. What I disagree with is your generalization that people who drive Toyota products (I don’t by the way) are morons who are incapable of opening a refrigerator door, much less drive a car.

Are there bad drivers out there? You bet. I came close to being killed by one not that long ago, and amazingly she wasn’t driving a Toyota as she sailed, completely oblivious, through a red light at close to 100km/h.

As for taking the chore out of sitting in traffic, I am sure you are aware that North America in general does not have a love affair with public transit. Where I choose to live and where I choose to work means that I have to make the sacrifice of traffic. My point is that it takes very little driving skill to move forward in 4 ft increments while sitting on a hwy. If Toyota, (or some other manufacturer) invented some way to remove that tedium from my day, I (and probably many others) would undoubtedly embrace it. By no means does that mean that I have disdain for driving, however, calling moving by those increments driving is, I believe a stretch.

I am curious as to which brand of vehicle you sold? You seem to have a disdain for a large portion of the buying public, and I can’t help wondering how you surpressed that while selling a car to someone you deemed unworthy to be behind the wheel.

I read all this and I see long winded whiney enthusiasts who can’t get over the fact that they are a niche market. Toyota arrogant? Pot, kettle, black.

oh sorry retard the V8 starts at $32k for a base base CXL. still $6k more than the avalon

Man America sucks for buying those POS Toyota.

A4…try comparing apples to apples here. I’m not going to compare a 4-cylinder Accord to a V6 Camry, nor am I going to compare a basic Avalon V6 to a loaded Lucerne V8 and call it cheaper, even though the V6 Avalon is much quicker than the V8 Lucerne. After incentives, the V6 and V8 will probably be close anyway.

Why are you so angry anyway? Why this hatred for a successful company? Did Mr. Toyoda personally piss you off somehow? If you don’t like what they have to offer, find something else. There are plenty of offerings out there. Hating something because they don’t have what you want is so juvenile. Does mommy and daddy spoil you too much? You really need to stop posting and go back to popping your pimples and concentrate on finishing your homework.

A4 you’re an idiot, stay in school kid

The base lucerne starts at $29,425. Stop being a toyota fanboy.

This a very stupid statement I’ve never heard in my entire life. May be the Toyota are better cars. But telling the true, there are also much better cars out there. Some Toyota are really good cars. But others are not. I don’t know what to say. This statement is simply stupid.

Mbongo

I knew there would be a plethora of comments about this story. The fact is that Toyota is gaining huge success due to their quality, if boring cars. But if boring quality is what people want, that’s what they’ll get, and seeing as they do want it…Regardless, Toyota deserves to be #1, they’re a smart company, very intelligent, they meet the market’s demands and do so admirably, they respond to trends, they create trends, they pursue alternative fuels/energy, they did the work they needed to do to get here. I think they will be used as a scapegoat just like the story says, and I support them in giving the public what they want, not necessarily what I want, but I can respect a company that knows how to make money and succeed using progress, innovative technology/tools, a keen eye into what the people want, and high quality/durability/reliability. Most Toyota’s are not the cars I would choose if I was choosing, if I wanted a large crossover I’d take a Mazda CX-9, if I wanted a midsize sedan I’d take a Subaru Legacy, if I wanted a compact pickup I’d take a Nissan Frontier, but that doesn’t mean I don’t understand why other people choose Toyota’s, and that’s what more people on this site need to understand.

Toyota requires that the performance enthusiast niche REMAIN a niche. I believe what some people are saying here is not that enthusiasts are the majority of the market, but that a few big performance hits from the Big Three (Camaro, Challenger, Interceptor, G8 GT, etc.) could convert a good share of the market back to people who think about DRIVING and not about whether or not their car can park itself. It doesn’t need to be a majority, but it could become enough to tip the scales against Toyota’s rapid growth.

Look at the G8 GT for example. It contains all the interior amenities the usual daily driver thinks of first instead of performance/handling features, PLUS the heart and guts of a sports car underneath. All for a pretty affordable package.

I believe cars like the G8 GT are Toyota’s biggest threat. We’ll see what happens.

PrimeGTP, You have to care about performance before you go shopping for it. I bought an Lexus IS300 for the little woman to drive thinking maybe if she had a performance oriented type car it would help her understand why I love performance cars like I do….nope she cared more about the six disc CD changer and the sunroof than having a car that handled well. I am not saying you are wrong as I want to see companies build cars I want to drive and own but but even offering a good performance alternative might not be enough. Mazda offers the Mazda6 and it sells but not in the numbers I thought it would….then theres the Camry….a car I think I would have to lose a bet to want to buy and they can’t build em fast enough!

jonstew, that is why vehicles, like the G8 GT, will accomodate a more luxurious interior for those who don’t care so much about performance and a throaty V8 and sporty suspension for those who do.

Jon, I understand it’s a long shot, but I’m just throwing out theoretical situations. You no longer have to sacrifice all those comfy options to get a performance rocket anymore. And the loaded $33k G8 GT proves it can be done without creating a sky-high price tag. The gap between feature-laden cars with small engines and low performance ratings and feature-laden cars with muscle guts is closing. I think it might get more people interested in cars that can DRIVE, as they no longer have to give up their cd changers and heated seats.

NOS2006, the problem with your comment as I see it is the people that want the comfy interior are not going to care about the V8 and a lot of those people after the comfy interior will think a sporty suspension makes the car ride rough so once again it will come down to someone wanting a performance car that will be drawn in for the test drive in the first place. I certainly don’t want to be right about that but it just seems hard to ignore the trends in car buying in this country….people were driving coupes and sedans all be it boring ones then SUV’s came about and people traded in their poor handling/driving sedans and coupes to get into SUV’s that handled even more poorly and the only thing that burst bubble was when gas prices got higher than a giraffes ass. The other thing is a lot and I mean a lot of people in this country can’t drive and don’t seem to want to based on the number of them I see talking in their cell phones and doing anything but driving when they are in their cars / trucks / SUVs’. Once again I don’t want you or PrimeGTP to be wrong about the G8 or any other interesting cars but I don’t see it happening.

i thought benz made a car once that could drive itself…and it seems more like a benz goal than a toyota one. of course, benz have AMG and big V12s but i think they’re more comitted to do the “drive itself” thing

“Kaptain, as I said for the most part I agree with your statements, and for the record I am a driving enthusiast, and a graduate of the Bondurant Drving School. What I disagree with is your generalization that people who drive Toyota products (I don’t by the way) are morons who are incapable of opening a refrigerator door, much less drive a car.” – Comment by buenos, posted on February15 at 2:38 pm

I think you might have read a little too much into what I was saying. Don’t take me so seriously.. I don’t.

Toyota was the center of my focus merely as an example, and my sentiments can apply to anyone who behaves as I have described regardless of the brand automobile they choose to buy. Except Kia.. no one with a working brain ever buys a Kia. Jokes aside, I still think anyone who values comfort over safety in any car is an absolute moron – the brands have no control over that so naturally I’m not going to blame anyone but the idiot who makes that choice.
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“Are there bad drivers out there? You bet. I came close to being killed by one not that long ago, and amazingly she wasn’t driving a Toyota as she sailed, completely oblivious, through a red light at close to 100km/h.” – Comment by buenos, posted on February15 at 2:38 pm

Similar experiences in the Washington DC area over here in the States have driven me to draw the same conclusions. Speaking of drawing conclusions, I am making the assumption that you are outside the USA since you’re not using our ridiculous MPH measurement for speed.. we need to switch to the metric system and catch up with the rest of the world on this one. But never mind my odd tangent.. Typically, I find people in Mercedes SUVs to be most commonly guilty of thinking they own the road, but that’s more a stereotype than anything else.. again, the brand isn’t the problem, it’s airhead behind the wheel who doesn’t even know where he is.
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“As for taking the chore out of sitting in traffic, I am sure you are aware that North America in general does not have a love affair with public transit. Where I choose to live and where I choose to work means that I have to make the sacrifice of traffic. My point is that it takes very little driving skill to move forward in 4 ft increments while sitting on a hwy. If Toyota, (or some other manufacturer) invented some way to remove that tedium from my day, I (and probably many others) would undoubtedly embrace it. By no means does that mean that I have disdain for driving, however, calling moving by those increments driving is, I believe a stretch.” – Comment by buenos, posted on February15 at 2:38 pm

I agree with you on the public transportation front – I know it isn’t cool yet, but I’m sincerely hoping it takes off. I think it would be far better for me (and my car) to get more people off the roads when they don’t want to be there at all. Having visited other places where public transportation works (Here in DC, New York City, San Francisco) I know for a fact that if you build it, they will come. There are lots of people that would choose it, and many that would not. People are going to go with what works best for them. Hell, even I would choose to metro to work if I could – I could save my driving for off-peak hours so it would be more fun. My point is I’d rather have a choice than simply be resigned to say public transportation can’t work at all and we should just live with the crappy traffic.

It also looks like I read a little too much into what you were saying as well. One who enjoys driving would not describe as it chore by any means, but you saying so now makes perfect sense given that you would not call negotiating traffic “driving” per se. I guess we just have a difference of opinion there – it’s still driving to me and while I certainly don’t much care for traffic myself, the responsibility is no less important. Regardless of the skill required, I’m not willing to turn that over to a computer. I build my own PCs and am as enthusiastic about that technology as I am in love with cars. Even so, I don’t want any machine — especially a potentially dangerous one like a car — making decisions for me. Certainly, not if I have any realistic choice in the matter. I’m not questioning your credentials as a driver, but an automobile enthusiast who doesn’t have a problem with a computer doing the driving (regardless of the conditions) strikes me as a contradiction in terms. I know traffic isn’t fun and that it sucks, but I handing it off to a computer is the right thing to do. When you build a computer to do the thinking for a man, you take something important away from the man. I guess my objection is philosophical in nature, and probably more to with me being a control-freak and oldschool when it comes to cars and computers. I prefer stickshift and generally shy away from automatic lights/wipers/climate control/toilets, ect. I know part of the reason I’m so fascinated by them is because they obey my commands without argument in order to accomplish something useful and worthwhile. That is the way it should be, and I steadfastly reject any technology designed to take me out of control while it claims to put me in control.
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“I am curious as to which brand of vehicle you sold? You seem to have a disdain for a large portion of the buying public, and I can’t help wondering how you surpressed that while selling a car to someone you deemed unworthy to be behind the wheel.” – Comment by buenos, posted on February15 at 2:38 pm

Previously, I have sold in no particular order: Fords, Hondas, Toyotas, and Saturns. You are definitely correct: I have indeed developed a special irritation with the buying automotive public. Sell cars to one undeserving prick after the other and I suspect you will eventually see what I mean when I say there is no shortage of asinine pantie-wastes on the road who should be retro-actively aborted immediately. This frustration eventually grew over me like a bad ulcer and ultimately served as one of the fundamental reasons why I had to get out of the sales side and find something else to do. It’s their money and they are free to waste it on frivolities how ever they wish, but I don’t need to be there witnessing it first-hand. The absurdities I saw at my dealerships were bizarre and nauseating: “I’m cool with paying $40 extra per month for the leather seats and sunroof, but you guys are pushing it with the side air-bags and ABS costing an additional $8 a month.” That same moron was back 3 months later because his clue-less ditz of a wife didn’t know how to pump the brakes in the rain and wrapped their “pretty baby” around a very anti-social oak tree. That episode is among the least irksome of my experiences. Toyota customers were hands-down, absolutely THE WORST and most common offenders, period. Try spending 3 HOURS arguing over $60 floor mats or losing money on stock unit trades with competing dealers just to find the right color on a regular basis and then tell me you’re dealing with reasonable and intelligent customers. Thanks but no thanks. I have better things to do with my time than rip my hair out as a member of a captive audience to certified human stupidity.

This isn’t an enthusiast site. It’s an idiot fanboy site.

This isn’t an enthusiast site. It’s an idiot fanboy site.
Comment by youngm7

Truest statement ever posted on this site.

damn, some of you guys just need to just email each other theese long ass 6 or 7 paragraph statements, i dont think many people read them.

A4 is on crack…and so does Audi.

norby413 –

Agreed whole-heartedly. And that’s why I did something about it and left sales entirely. Found something else that more than pays the bills while still providing me a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Good thing I did.. I’m a happier guy for it. A loser would just put up with it and complain while doing absolutely zero to solve the problem.

For those saying this is a “Fanboy site”, get a grip, there are plenty of enthusiast articles here, but there are also plenty of NON enthusiast articles as well. The real car enthusiasts are those that appreciate a variety of vehicles, not just ones with RWD, 400+ bhp, etc etc. The real fanboys are the ones that only have love for sports cars and the like, true car enthusiasts are the ones that are interested in the industry, those that can appreciate Toyota for doing what they do, those that can appreciate ANY market of car for doing what it does. I’m an enthusiast, but I’m also a huge car fan, hell, my first word was “car” (and that’s no lie), so I’m not about to ignore those pressing issues and matters and car releases that only pertain to the enthusiast in me. Too many shallow, enthusiast snobs in here. One can be an enthusiast for sports cars, and a car enthusiast in general.

oh toyota, why did they just became bland yes they have lexus with nice cars but waaaaaay out of my price range niche markets also give money a corolla sport version with 200hp doesnt do any harm, a new celica mr2 and supra either they need to take listen to us too….

i dont live in usa, im from venezuela and i can say here everyone thinks toyota is god, i dont like toyota because they dont have a afordable sporty car, so i have to buy seat to get a nice sporty car but i dont care about brands i care about features, engine brakes suspension, interior, ride quality, safety, extras…

sad the vast majory of people wants a car that moves form a to b

Moves you from a to b but sadly leaves you soul at home…

I would probably be considered a Toyota fanboy like some of you refer to but I completely agree with the comments about Toyota currently only offering boring vanilla vehicles. But nobody has mentioned Scion yet. I recently purchased a 2007 Scion tC and I couldn’t be happier. Nothing in the price range can even compare, American or otherwise. You could even call the tC an “American” car on a technicality: They are not sold in Japan! It is built specifically for Americans! But I am glad that the tC is built by Toyota in Japan and I feel that it will be more reliable as a result. My last car was a 1993 Camry and it still runs great! Only repairs done to that car in 15 years are a new muffler and one new CV joint. That’s it in 15 years! And the only reason is because of all the salt they dump on the roads during the winters in the northeast. So yeah, for me it’s “fu*k the big three”. I won’t buy an unreliable piece of s#it just to support American workers, they should have got a job at Toyota’s Kentucky factory. I would have bought my tC if it came with no warranty whatsoever; it’ll be about ten years before it needs any work anyways.

A4 – you’re an “ignorant douchebag”. Toyota already appeals to a broad markket which is why they’re about to eclipse GM.

My_Sweet_Shadow, the tC is a great car for the money but it still is not an enthusiast model, it is a “sporty” one (I guess). The styling is better Toyota’s normal bland fare but by no means exciting and is very vanilla but this is more a subjective point than fact because everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to it. The engine is a great one for durability but it sorely needs a “G” series head on it instead of an “F” series head (anyone that knows how to read Toyota engine codes knows what I am talking about). I test drove a tC and wanted to buy one for my commute but true to Toyota Stealership form it came loaded up with all that useless scion accessory crap that I refused to finance and oddly they would not order the one I wanted (probably because they would not make a lot of money on LED taillights and cheap shift knobs). Engine aside if Toyota or Scion wanted this to be an enthusiast car they would have not put 70 pounds of glass in the roof of it which a horrible thing to do to a car you want to handle well.

I’d take a Mazda6 iTouring over a Scion tC.

Mazda3, I’m sorry.

^^not really the same type of car as the tC is a 2 door and the Mazda3 is a 4 or 5 door.

Toyota please make American Inspired cars like the Ford Focus….wait thats European…okay make something fun like um a pt cruiser or um a Chevy Areo….wait a minute. Okay well make something costly like a Impala that will breakdown and leave me crying. Better yet make me something i can afford like a Saab, or MB please please. I need some that takes up alot of money and when it breaks down will take more of my money. God forbid i buy something that will last me 5-10 years, cost me nothing to fix and still let me pay my house loan like A4 does.

Better yet Japan stop investing in our country, it hurts us alot. Also stop building new processes(such as Toyota’s manufacturing process which world wide manufactureres strive to be like) and technologies (such as Blu-Ray).

A4 please stop being a troll

Elva please play in traffic or at least get back in the basement.

Everyone who missed it , scroll way back up, GM#1 made an actually LEGITIMATE comment, he stopped his rants for one single moment and addressed A4’s rampant ignorant adolescent racism against the Japanese/Toyota. MAKE SURE YOU CHECK THIS OUT, he still hates Toyota, but at least he’s not a bigot like A4.

i saw that lambo, what a proud day to be reading lln, gm#1 is only a car racist, glad he is not a people racist.

^^not really the same type of car as the tC is a 2 door and the Mazda3 is a 4 or 5 door.
Comment by jonstew

Basically makes my point more. If a 4-door/5-door can be as good a car, there’s no sense in limiting your comfort with 2 doors.

GM#1 went out of character, thus convincing me more that his whole persona is an act.

PrimeGTP: I agree, it most likely is an act, I mean think of the things he says, I don’t know anyone that ignorant. However it was still mildly interesting at the least to see him standing up for someone other than GM, and in a good way.

PrimeGTP, I don’t think it makes your point more, as someone who is shopping for a 2 door would likely not consider a 4 or 5 door. I personally like 2 door cars for myself and that is likely because I never ride in the back of one but a better arguement would be for the Civic coupe than the Mazda3’s.

Was someone actually complaining that a foreign car company ONLY builds 60% of cars sold in US domestically? That seems like an amazing achievement to me, and a demonstration of commitment to the market.

“Explain to me a logical reason why they killed off the legendary and somewhat fun Celica, and dont bother trying to use Sigh-on as an excuse” Quoted by A4

FYI A4…Toyota did not killed off Celica, it was redesigned, improved and upgraded with a different name, successful Scion tC.

Actually the Celica is still made for other markets under the name Celica and it is nothing like the tC. I like the tC for what it is but it is no successor to the Celica, it is heavy, blandly styled (this is of course subjective though) and has poor handling compared to 7th Gen Celica and it is also slower, these are not traits that improve or upgrade a performance car in my opinion. Toyota needs another AE86 corolla or a true RWD Celica with great handling a 4 cylinder engine with a “G” series head on it and no drive by wire BS…make it cheap and don’t load it full of luxury crap to lure in the bottle blondes and the “I can’t drive unless I’m on my cell phone” crowd.

Phil, you’re right about the “Jap” stuff, it really is an offensive term, people think its like an abbreviation but it most certainly is not.

My 03′ Tacoma’s motor blew at 82,000 miles. I have a flawless service record. Toyota is slipping. They are riding off of their name, but it will eventually catch up with them.

This was my second Tacoma. When I called Toyota to complain, no one could help me, and no one cared. Their attitude was “sorry sir.”

Well, I can’t buy a new motor with SORRY!!!

I HATE Toyotas and will never buy one again.

~Brent~

I’m a former Toyota owner, and will stay that way for the rest of my life. I’m not one of those loyalists, but I’ve got to question some of these stories. 288,000? I didn’t even get half that out of my Toyota, and barely got a third. Thought it was the worst car ever, until I owned a Honda. I’ve also owned a Ford Tempo, which, even though I wasn’t good at keeping up maintenance, lasted longer than the Toyota (someone is probably still driving it) I’ve owned three domestics (including my current Olds), none of which was a pizza. Two of the three eastern cars were execrable. The only one that wasn’t was a Mazda.
Tot only did my Toyota not make it to 100,000, I don’t know anyone who’s gotten one that high, and I live in Southern California! There were several Toyota owners in my family. What do we drive now? Olds, Chevy Tahoe, Cavalier, Ford, Caddy and Jaguar.
I think at some point, (late ‘70s, most of the ‘80s) Detroit made crappy cars, but that was some time ago, because they know if they don’t build something of good quality, they won’t sell. One thing that helped our eastern friends was their habit of issuing a new model after four years, versus six for the domestic trio.
Maybe the new tundra will be a change, but as far as I know, Toyota has never built a vehicle in the United States. The company pretty much builds all the parts elsewhere, and assembles the vehicles in America, along with some locally sourced components. I’m not saying it doesn’t create jobs here, but lets not call them something they’re not. The only reason I see for buying a Toyota (or making up a false storey about it lasting 288,000 miles) is out of sympathy for the two bombs we dropped on them. Meanwhile, I have relatives who thing august 6th and 9th should be holidays.
J.D. power doesn’t say what a “problem” is. I think there’s a difference between a glove compartment knob that comes off in your hand (typical GM problem) and a head gasket that leaks like a sieve (Typical Toyota problem)
Toyota
The
One
You
Ought
To
Avoid
johnstew, you bought a Camry for the little woman to drive. It simply went down the “L” line instead of the “T” line. People who think the Camry w/ “L” is a performance-oriented car, probably also think it’s a luxury car. I’m never buying another Toy-ota or Honda again, but as long as brain-dead nincompoops think those companies make cars that are worth buying, GM and Subaru will continue toy keep their eyes on high quality, so I win as well.