gm must’ve made those floor mats for toyota…

I’ve never purchased aftermarket floor mats… do they come with warning labels in regards to possible safety issues?

I’ve seen people who buy aftermarket mats and accidentally get them stuck up under the gas pedal (So it won’t depress all the way), and come into the shop complaining their car has no more power anymore…

But I’ve never seen a mat jam a gas pedal and kill someone.

To add to my comment, one of my auto shop teachers (who worked 30+ years as a line mechanic) told me about a lady who had no less than FIVE aftermarket floor mats on the driver side floor, most of them jammed under the pedals, and consequently probably went from 0-60 in about 5 minutes… That repair took him about 30 seconds.

They wanted to be the biggest in the world, welcome to the rest of the story that you also took from GM. Your welcome Toyota!

Be American. Buy American. Buy GM.

Yep…I was waiting for this article to surface on LLN. Death due to floor mats. Go figure.

Honestly, how incompetent a driver do you have to be to allow that to happen?

Surely anyone with half a gram of common sense would knock the transmission out of Drive or just turn off the engine waaaaay before they got to 120mph.

Toyota/Lexus drivers are unAmerican. No loss. They should have thought harder about their purchase and went with a GM vehicle instead. This wouldn’t have happened if they made the smart choice.

GM. An American Revolution

Acoom, what kind of wonderland do you live in that people actually have common sense?

I feel sorry for those who died. I however think there is more to this than just the floor mats, is TOYOTA possibly cutting costs by dipping in parts bin to get accelerator pedals without testing design? They have become complacent and arrogant as well so who knows. I also think that every one needs to know that turning off your ignition and controlled use of hand brake should be considered,even engine breaking by changing down your gears,my Dad taught me this. NEVER LEARNT A THING AT DRIVING SCHOOL ABOUT EMERGENCY SCENARIOS…Dealers,Schools,TOYOTA need to step their GAME up!

I don’t understand what this recall will do.

The reason for the deadly crash was because incorrect floor mats installed not because of the design of the floor mats.

I’m telling you all, it’s a problem with Toyota’s accelerator pedals, not the floormats. Something this sporatic and common… among specifically Toyota’s is not due to freaking floormats, especially when different brands and types of floormats have been involved in these accidents. It’s Toyota’s design, and their too prideful to fix it as it would involve way to many vehicles.

BTW, five out of those 7 models use the same accelerator pedal designs!!

As I recall, in the particular accident in question the loaner car had the wrong mats. I’m sure everyone has noticed these days that at the very least the driver’s side mat on virtually every new vehicle is anchored to the floor with a couple hooks. My bitch is with how flimsy these hooks actually are. No way in hell are they going to last the life of the floormat never mind the car. They spend all this time and money on backup cameras, lane departure warning systems and too many other gizmos to even bother listing but cheap out on a safety feature as simple as this. And they’re all guilty, not just Toyota.

Toyota can’t design an engine that won’t sludge, a transmission that won’t blow up in the first 10 thousand miles, and now that can’t design a floormat that won’t cause thousands to die in fiery crashes.

HAHAHA, this kind of crap would never, EVER happen in a General Motors vehicle. That’s what happens when you go with the right choice of vehicle instead of settling for some POS import like Toyota!!!! GM vehicles will last forever and never have any problems and they sure won’t kill people like imports do!!!!

HAHAHAHA, F Toyota. F japan and F those idiots who buy their crap products .They deserve to be killed. They’re an embarrassment to their fellow mankind.

Be American. Buy American. Buy GM.

we don’t have enough details to really determine what is going on, unfortunately…after that accident occurred i’m sure the bat signal went up and all the corporate lawyers converged and strategized on how to respond…even though the early reports made it look like the accident occurred due to dealer error, this makes toyota look proactive…then in court later on, when the family sues the dealer and the manufacturer, the manufacturer can say “we changed the design so this can’t happen again, but the dealer was at fault for putting the wrong mat in that car”…

DON’T TREAD ON ME …. with your poorly engineered floormats, Toyota-san.

Where’s Dr. Fool?

I asked a few people what they would do and it took them longer then I thought to come up with put it in neutral or turn the key to off. Also so many people said E-brake but there 2 problems, first it controls the rear breaks with at highway speed pulling on it to hard could put you in a nasty spin and it got less stopping power because it at the rear. people who think its not the floor mats i think they may have caused the breaks to fail and there was something wrong with the gas pedal.

never could happen to me and any one else who drives manual, one more advantage for it.

There is more to this story than wrong floor mats. It is across too many models and occurs in too many situations. My father in law bought a Toyota Avalon V6 a couple of years ago. He had 3 instances of the car going to WOT. The first occured while in the driveway. He had to have fast reflexes to shut off the ignition to keep the car from going through the garage. The next two were in typical around town driving. After the first time, he went over the car very carefully to look for a cause, especially around the pedal area and even measured clearances between the pedals and looked for things that would cause a mecanical hang up causing the accelerator to stick. Nothing.

This also doesn’t explain why the cars go to WOT. If it was just the accelerator sticking due to bunched up floor mats it would cause a partial open throttle, not jump to a wide open throttle senario. He was afraid to drive the car and approached Toyota about the problem. He was treated like an idiot who didn’t know how to drive that was confusing the pedals. He ultimately traded the car back to the dealer at a huge loss. He has never had another episode of “confusing the pedals” before or since that car.

For those that think it is easy to deal with need to consider that modern V6 engines with 260+ HP suddenly going to wide open throttle in traffic can accelerate rather briskly. You have to think fast to get on the brake HARD while simutaneously shutting off the ignition or shifting into neutral. My father in law was lucky enough to avoid an accident but is some cases I can see how this would be difficult. Grant it, you should never accelerate to 120, there are ways to stop, but still, this is not a benign problem.

I strongly believe that this is an intermittent electrical or computer glitch that causes the car to go to WOT inappropriately. It is across all of their models as it has happened in their trucks, SUVs, across the car line, and even affected Lexus. Toyota has a serious problem here that they can’t figure out. The floor mat recall is just a way for them to look like they have a solution until they can figure out the real problem.

The worst thing about this is the way they have treated customers who have dealt with this problem. I will never buy a Toyota after seeing how they have handled this and encourage those shopping now to seriously consider this when buying.

I have a solution. spend 2 seconds bending down and moving the mat away from the pedal.

I called NMOFGM’s bullsh!t from the last thread post! you know what a real idiot is when you read is BS!

I’m not into conspiracy theories, but I do kinda agree with the people who think this might not merely be a floormat issue… Does anyone remember the engine sludge problem? They blamed the customers until a class action lawsuit forced them to sing a different tune. Bottom line I don’t trust Toyota and it wouldn’t shock me one bit that they’re covering something up.

Wow that’s really low “Need more oil for GM” . People (American citizens) have died and you find this a joke. Really LLN cant your admin do anything about this. He’s gone past his freedom of speech rights if you ask me.

if it is an issue of “incorrect floor mats being installed” what does it say about their quality standards that they built 3.8 Million vehicles before they discovered they were installing the wrong floormats?

Here is another link.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2009/09/18/fatal-california-crash-highlights-toyota%E2%80%99s-sudden-unintended-acceleration-problem/
What I find interesting is that drivers tried hooking there feet under the accelerator pedal and lifting up which would free the pedal if it was a floor mat issue. Read some of the descriptions and I think you will agree that in most cases there is more to the story than floor mats.

I normally wouldn’t deign to reply to a johnnycanuck comment, but the floor-mat anchors on the early nineties Volvo my brother is still driving are fine. My brother has the plastic tray mats, so maybe that accounts for something. Either way, Volvo’s anchors work.

3.8 Million…Is that a record?
I agree with some here and also think this is more than a simple floor mat issue.
Unless every single model involved has the same floor space and same floor mat.
As much as almost all toyotas are the same. I’m sure the tundra and camry don’t have the same floor mat, but they are both involved in the recall.

What’s the reall problem toyota?
If you don’t know you better find out before someone else dies.

wow at Need more oil for GM!!! he is so intelligent and well spoken. He must be very well traveled and educated.

I’m glad to see this is getting some attention. I was wondering what it was going to take to make it fair. I saw the story on one of the news shows last weekend, and even though the comment was made that all manufacturers would have the same issue with improper floormats, Toyota was the company singled out as the focus of the story. 10 years ago, hell even 2 years ago it would have been about a domestic.

May the best car win…

This is the second largest recall they have ever had followed closely by the Tacoma recall then by the window recalls just recently then the brake pad recall. wow sux to be them

Toyota can;t get anything right. They’ve been overrated crap forever.

May the best car win.

Buy American. buy Gm. it is your patriotic obligation

Paging Dr. Fill and 1115….
BAM!

So if I’m missing floor mats… you think I’ll get new ones?

Doc’s looking at that scalpel in a whole new light right about now.

People need to stop buying cheap floor mats. I’ve owned Toyotas for over 20 years, with Toyota floor mats and have never had a problem. I bought the cheapies ONCE and they were all over the place. Don’t fault toyota for stupid people, it’s a shame they died… but they should’ve learned how to turn the car off. Shut the engine off and slow the car down.
Oh, and Buy American, let’s go through the years and compare how many recalls GM has had…AMERICAN CARS SUCK!

Dr. Fill has left the building…..

Need more oil for GM,
You’re an ass…you must work for GM to be up their ass that far!

kate0803, he’s too dumb to even work for GM………

Only in America, over here in europe Toyota wouldn`t care too much about such issues, cause they don`t have to fear a zillion dollar lawsuit over here.

HEY WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE?
SHUT THE ENGINE OFF!?! NO!!!!!!!!!
Do you know how your steering and BRAKES are operated?
SHIFT TO NEUTRAL, You need the engine.

Not to mention in most models, turning the key all the way back will engage the steering wheel lock.
Shift to neutral, try the brakes.
If the brakes don’t work, shift to D3, D2 then D1.
If your transmission blows, GENTLY pull on the PARKING (not emergency) brake.
If the cable snaps, open door and jump, just try to land head first, cause you’re gonna die when you hit the pavement anyway, might as well make it quick.

kate0803… This issue has NOTHING to do with aftermarket floor mats. It’s not the customers fault, it’s Toyotas fault. As for the conduct of the drivers… They screwed up, they panicked, it happens. That makes them human.

The unfortunate issues that all brands must deal with. These accidents never make anyone happy. No designer wants to be the one responsible for the deaths of others.

Be intelligent. Buy intelligently. Buy XYZ.

it’s your anti-idiotic duty.

xcatch: So true in Europe corporations are not held responsible for those they kill, awesome.

I don’t think it’s the floor mat. I suspect that it’s the wiring or the computer software problem. Just like the old day when Ford, GM, Audi…they all have that problems…..

@kate0803-
“Don’t fault toyota for stupid people”
Stupid people?
I will agree there are a lot of stupid people out there, but this guy that was driving was a 20+ years CHP.
If you don’t live in Cali you might not know what that means California Highway Patrol. So he spends most of his whole work day in a car (more than likely one made by an American car company). So with the time he spends driving daily and his training to just be a CHP. I’m sure he is not stupid when it comes to driving.

Like I have said and otheres on this site and other sites. I feel this is way more than a floor mat. Saying it’s a floor mat issue just makes it look less harmfull than it might be.

Whatever the problem toyota better fix it.
If they don’t know the really problem yet they better find out before someone else dies.

If you read some of the accounts of the acceleration there was an issue of the keyless start. People were pushing the start button to turn off the car and nothing happened. This is because you have to hold the button for several seconds to shut off a moving car. This is because it is generally not advisable to turn off a moving automobile and these instructions were not commonly known. When shifthing into neutral the engine rev’d wildly and this alarmed people that the engine was going to explode. Full pressure on the brakes quickly boiled the brake fluid, melted the pads and faded until they were no longer functional. The e-brake/parking brake will not be enough to slow a car in this situation.

This is the problem with full drive by wire cars. Everything is no longer connected directly to the function being controlled. Instead it is connected to a computer that makes a decision on what it thinks you should do.

HAL, open the pod bay door.

I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.

Is anyone sure the family did not die from boredom. They were in a Lexus.

I can’t help but agree with those who think Toyota is trying to cover up a bigger issue. Some are saying it’s only due to aftermarket floor mats, if that was the case then why would Toyota even issue a recall? They would simply post a bulletin regarding the use of aftermarket floormats. Some aftermarket grill guards made for trucks can affect the function of the front airbags, but you don’t see anyone recalling their trucks over the issue. If any of you took the time to read 928dreamer’s posts it’s clear that there is more to this story than just a floormat.

Francois_1616,
Everyone agrees with you, but it’s just that LLN doesn’t care…not surprised!

look up at youtube and search for Dateline NBC unintentional acceleration….then you might have second view about the TOYOTA’s cover up. I am not saying they are, but there is a possibility. The gas paddle in Toyota’s cars has enough clearance to the floor mat, so the mat theory is very questionable. And Many people here (like myself) is missing the point about that the driver should try to stop the car. The question here should be why the car acting uncontrollable…I and why TOYOTA let these bad products sell in the dealer lot. The recall will mean nothing if the problem is mechanical related.

Need More Oil For GM- People like you are the reason General Motors’ market share continues to fall. You are not a good representation of General Motors and I’m sure if they read this blog they would be embarrassed. You stupidity continues to amaze me daily.

Thanks 928Dreamer for the link!

My car (a Citroën) is subject to unintended Acceleration, similar to the case of the Audi 5000: The Idle speed sensor of my car is a bit worn out, and I don’t want to pay for a new one .

In my car, sometimes when I release the gas pedal, it happens that the engine speed does not goes back to its normal idle speed (1000rpm), but get stuck at 2000rpm. In some other cases, the idle engine speed of my car would just fluctuates from 800rpm to up to 2500 rpm. In an automatic transmission, I guess it can be dangerous when you have the drive gear engaged, but as I drive a manual, I simply have to press the clutch and stop the car.
When this type of behaviour happens to me, the solution is to stop the car, switch off the engine and switch it back on, then this idle speed problem disappears.

The root cause of the problem is that over time, the idle speed sensor does not work as good as when it came out of the factory. However, the engine computer does not wear out, and here is the problem: it expects a certain behaviour from the sensor, but does not necessarily take into account the fact that a worn out idle speed sensor may behave strangely. Anyway, this issue is well known for my car and other car which use this type of sensor (mid-90s technology), but when you have a manual transmission it is not a big deal.

As an Engineer, I am interested in knowing the technology used in these Toyota:
Do they use a complete electronic gas pedal (no mechanical wire)? and are they using Direct Injection?
If both answer are yes, then the problem of my car cannot happen in the Toyotas. From the description of the problem, I would say that it is a computer bug (maybe from engine control unit, the gearbox control unit or even the traction control system) or simply the gas pedal electronic and moving part which get stuck.

How about they recall all the cars for hazardous drivers?

Come on… you’ve got to be stupid for this to be a problem.

RaineMan…..try to stuck a floor mat in your car…and you will see how easy you can pull it out when you are in drive position….floor mat should not be the matter here….

RaineMan, have you not read any of the above posts. I’d like to see you take a 260HP car in around town traffic and have it suddenly go to Wide Open Throttle. That is a lot of power, and quickly. As posted above this can be difficult to handle, for many reasons.

This is not an issue?

Last week I was riding my motorcycle soon after it had rained, a car in front of me braked suddenly and I had to execute an emergency braking manuever in order to avoid crashing into him. My rear tire locked up due to the wet road and the suddeness of my braking and I started fishtailing, a pretty scary thing for a rider who doesn’t know how to react or panics.

Luckily I did. I let off the brakes, regained control and carefully reapplied the brakes until I came to a safe stop.

There’s a point to my cute little story… I knew how to react quickly and effectively in an emergency situation and I did it without losing my head. Not everyone does, some people don’t know what to do, or they panic, or both. PLEASE stop blaming the drivers like you actually were there and know exactly what happened. That one man who was killed was a cop, I’d put money on him being a better driver than most of us.

2WheeledSpeed….well…being a father doesn’t make your a good role model to your kid………cop can be an A$$ also…..being a cop doesn’t necessary mean he is a good skilled driver either. So, your bet may earn you nothing.

elviososa: highway patrolman is a position that requires significant amounts of in depth training in a vehicle. the majority of which is intended to teach the driver to keep his cool and think logically in an emergency situation. The fact that he’d been a Highway patrolman for many years seems to indicate that he was well experienced and good at such things. To question his abilities as a driver or his ability to keep his focus in a stressful situation would be ill-advised, and whether or not he was an a$$hole is irrelevant.

I know I can’t say for sure whether or not the cop was a good driver or not, but since most cops do recieve special training for high speed driving and pursuits (And spend a LOT of time driving) I think the chances of him being at least a decent driver are pretty good. But we’re all human, and you’re exactly right.

elvio,
I see no video on youtube about Dateline NBC unintentional acceleration

Cardemon04: playing Devil’s advocate, there was post in the original thread by somebody specifically complaining about how surprised he was when he out-drove a bunch of CHiPs at their own driver course.

Either way, we don’t know, we weren’t there. It happened so quickly, there’s plenty that could have happened that only those who were in the car would know.

Aside from the tragic loss, the bad thing about stories like this is people tend to side with who they favor.

Logically, it would seem Toyota is trying to look good for a possible lawsuit. If there was another issue they’re really going to fix, it’ll sure show up fast – the thousands of mechanics across the country will know about it…they’ll be the ones’ fixing it.

I would imagine the Toyota brass isn’t stupid enough to think they could slip an auxillary recall into a sure-fire publicity magnet of a multimillion unit recall, especially one that would require the co-operation of millions of Toyota employees across the U.S.

If they are that stupid…I doubt it would stay hidden for long.

HAHAHAHA, F Toyota. F japan and F those idiots who buy their crap products .They deserve to be killed. They’re an embarrassment to their fellow mankind.

Be American. Buy American. Buy GM.

OH BUT THIS IS OK LEFT LANE NEWS???? c’mon now?

I’m with 928 and some of the others – this is more than just floor mats.

/sarcasm on

It’s too early for many of these cars to be accelerating uncontrollably. They are supposed to wait until the drop dead time, and all of the Toyotas will suddenly accelerate and kill lots of Americans all at the same time. It’s a terrorist plot.

/sarcasm off

there is simply nothing more to be said about the original lexus incident. It was a sad crash, and something needs to be done to insure this doesn’t happen again.

@floor_it

I don’t think Toyota knows the exact nature of the problem or how to fix it. That is the nature of electrical and computer glitches. They are intermittant and can be maddening to try to track down. Whatever the problem is, it is not leaving a fault record in the main computer. But, something in the engine management software or hardware triggers an inappropriate switch in the throttle and fuel map to go to Wide Open Throttle. This will take some serious effort to try to track down.

That said, I don’t think Toyota has put the resources in to try to figure it out. They have taken more of a “head in the sand and hope it goes away” approach. When my father in law had the problem with his car, they didn’t even want to look at the car. They just assumed it was a problem with the driver and sent him on his way.

What should have happened was as follows. Tthe car should have been sent back to Toyota, hooked up to external engine management monitoring, and driven until the fault re-occurred. The problem was, in real world driving each episode was about a month apart. So, it would take time and resources to look into, which Toyota was unwilling to do.

I am hoping that they have a team on it now, because it is obvious this problem is not going away. Time to get the head out of the sand.

sorry…if LLN let me post the link here…it would be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiFFlYMM2YY&feature=related

it’s about “Sudden Acceleration Investigation”…take a look

This is why I drive a stick shift….

Also coincidentally I was just talking with a woman today who owned a Lincoln LS, and had the same issue happen to her. Fortunately she was only doing 35mph, and drove her car against a median to slow herself down. She said that Ford never looked into to it either when it happened…

LLN story:

“The mat design was implicated in the fatal accident that killed a family of four in a Lexus ES 350 loaner vehicle. In that vehicle, the removable mat became lodged against the accelerator pedal forcing the vehicle to reach speeds around 120 mph.”

Has this been verified as being the cause of the accident? Isn’t the floor mat issue still a “suspected cause” at this point?

My understanding is that the investigation by the state has not been completed.

The article states that it has and that the floor mat issue was determined as the cause of the accident.

??

Im still going to go with a combination problem, floor mate get stuck under break and something happened with the gas pedal.

i love the recall just saying to take out floor mat, from what i have read no new one or any thing.

Hazardous floor mats?
That’s a new one

All cars should have the pegs that the mats hook onto, next to the front of the seat, so the mat can’t move
DrFill

ha ha ha

Way to go, Toy Ota!

“Lionwithoutpride:
I normally wouldn’t deign to reply to a johnnycanuck comment, but the floor-mat anchors on the early nineties Volvo my brother is still driving are fine. My brother has the plastic tray mats, so maybe that accounts for something. Either way, Volvo’s anchors work”
Yep my 98 Volvo has plastic anchors on both front mats, and in fact they are beefy enough that I could probably tow something with them

Anyway, this is just a sad situation. People died, and that’s no laughing matter.

@928
Assuming that it is a computer glitch that they have no idea how to fix, issuing a recall without a solution isn’t going to solve the problem. It’d be a pointless waste of money, so my money is on either…

-they know what the problem is, and are going to try to fix it quietly (not many are this stupid, but…)
-they know what the problem is, and are going to announce it after crash investigation is finshed
-they’re “adjusting floor mats” doing this mostly as a PR move for a possible lawsuit

I’d rather buy a Toyota with a faulty rugmat than a Buick anyday. THey’re still 10 times better than GM or Toyota. Be American, buy imports like Toyota.

lexus is going to be the joke of the year. jay leno will have a field day ragging on lexus for having torecall floor mats. transmissions, floor mats, ? this never would have happened 20 years ago. toyota is slipping just like their mats.

does needmoreoilgm drink alot? or do alot of drugs that have kept his brain from thinking?

that cops family should sue toyota

ALS
You should know him
He’s your pusher
He just uses the good stuff

Then he sells you the junk
And charges u double
Cheers!
DrFill

floor_it, you say it would be a pointless waste of money on Toyota’s part to issue the recall if the recall was a rough and they didn’t really know how to fix it. I disagree. It would make Toyota look like they are on top of things and that the problem was nothing related to flawed engineering.

@psiclone: That’s what the last line of my last post says.

To bad for toyota either way, its just not a good time for stuff like this to be happening to any automaker. I have had several problems like this with my 08 avenger. it just was’nt as severe, but scary non the less. and it only happened at idle. while sitting at traffic lights the car would suddenly jerk forward a split second or it would stall out like i had popped the clutch at idle, even though it is an auto. had a hell of a time with chrysler to fix it. was at the dealer numerous times and they thought i was crazy. only after I filed a lemon lawsuit its seems chrysler put out a recall for the wireing harness claiming unused ends were getting corroded thus causeing shorts. well since they fixed the issue i have had no problems with the car. makes you wonder if this could be a similar situation with the toyotas.

forgot to mention that the scan tool machine they used to scan the computer for faults or errors couldnt find anything wrong it took some deep investigation.

floor_it, that is my point. Your post contradicted itself. It isn’t pointless if they can’t fix it as I’m sure Toyota is looking out for itself, likely to the detriment of the Toyota-buying public.

Dear GM, Toyota, and Need more oil for GM,

You are all idiots….
A floormat? “They deserved to be killed?” Goverment owned and still bankrupt?
What is your problem. Toyota can’t get a floormat right, NMOFGM is a Patriotic American Murder,
and GM is a dating the American goverment (Shes a gold-digger). You guys need to be real!
Volkswagen never had an attitude, floormat issues, or goverment money (GM) addiction.

NMOFVW

Dear Need more oil for GM,

You have a serious attitude and your like an import Nazi ,
and I thought I didn’t like Toyota.

Dear Everyone else,

I guess I am a division of Need more oil for imports but only like German cars (Mostly Volkswagen)
I don’t have anything against Ford so don’t explode all over the discussion board.

NMOFVW