LMAO.

Don’t tell me Toyotapologists, let me guess: the JDM units are made in the USA, right???

We should invade them with Chrysler Jeeps right now. Good time to enter the market

thats an eg. why they fell from top spot

Jesus Christ. What is going on with you Toyota?

And just how will 1115, sunshine, Deanster, and just that whole team spin this? By citing GM’s old recalls again which are completely irrelevant here??

I think with toyota’s strong ambitions of selling a gazillion vehicles every month, they lost their core values and their focus on making solid and reliable cars.

It’s still a good move by toyota. Rather than flood the market with 470,000 vehicles with potential problems and screwing toyota’s image completely, they’ve decided to quickly fix part of the problem.

I don’t know if we are comparing apples and oranges. Recall rules in Japan are very different then in US. Tundra has a crappy transmission, but never recalled it and was never required to do so (it would be a good gesture for those who own crappy transmission). Rules of car ownership in Japan are different. There is extremely strict inspection after 2 year of ownership which is done by the manufacturer(!). The cost is quite high. Typical family is selling their car after 2 years and gets a new one (salesman comes to your house). 2 year old cars are re-sold by dealer with very extensive warranty. In essence consumer laws regarding automobiles and pollution are more stringent in Japan and very often were quoted by US execs as barriers of entry into a country (Japanese manufacturers do live by those laws).

Now, with Honda taking the top spot in the place of Toyota in the Consumer Reports survey, it’ll be interesting how the next few sales statistic will reflect this. And to take it even further, if this, shall we say trend, continues, will Honda become the new Toyota?

The real question is, were all the people buying Toyotas just for their quality/reliability? Or something else?

::cricket:: ::cricket::

ouch thats gotta hurt.

so, so much to say…………….

by the way – do any of you toyotapologists happen to have a bB vehicle sold between January last to March this year?

just wondering…

This must have to do with all the money GM is pouring into this site, and their recent purchase of Toyota Afficianado Monthly (Oops, I meant Consumer Reports). Otherwise this wouldn’t have been reported…

Honda will not be new Toyota anytime soon. Toyota will dispense over 10 million vehicles this year all around the planet. Honda is not in the same league, not even close. It is relatively young company and have not produced any cars before ’60’s. Toyota has much more depth and breadth of auto market then Honda all over the world.

Why people buy Toyota? Of course reliability has to do with it.Consumers always vote with their pocketbooks – a lot of people received their Noble prices in economics based on that subject. Even #4 in US after Honda is not a bad place to be and still ahead of domestic manufacturing brands (according to CR).

Commodore: Probably the same spin that the pro domestics use when theres a Chrysler recall story. Seen it all before.

I guess with focusing on huge sales numbers, they forgot that quality was one of the reasons they sold well in the first place. C’mon Toyota. Shame on you.

BOOOOOOOO toyota sucks

Cracks, me up. Toyota didnt last long on the top and looks to be falling quickly.

Here we go again LLN anti Toyota propaganda American Rose

anyclearer, can it be anymurkier? Toyota lasted on top of CR charts or 20 years, and fall behind Honda, Acura (I believe it is a Honda with fancy price tag), Subaru and Scion (which is Toyota). That’s a fall from grace? Now what would define “quickly” part?

OK, all kidding aside… I wonder if Toyota is finding out that producing at the volume GM, Ford and Chrysler have had for years is impossible at the quality level they would like to be hitting. Is there some magic number where quality can stay high and volume is maximized?

Anyway it was in Japan not here and GM recalls MILLIONS ….and millions of cars.
It would take Toyota 20 years of recalls to lower their resale and reliability rating to be where GM is at now. I buy Honda/Acura’s anyway. Lets see how the import haters are going to spin this and say GM and Toyota are equal now lol

Historically Toyota took the high road to quality issues. I believe that management of that company is looking towards long term effect more carefully then many other companies, Asian and non-Asian including. If they screw-up GM, Renault-Nissan will be on their tail along with Hyundai.They are painfully aware of this fact.

injunraiv,
your question: is there a magic number where quality stays high and volume maximized?…

I take the cynical approach. Assuming that quality control is a cost to the business, I think all car companies will do only what it must to ensure a reasonble quality at the volume it currently produces. It’s bad business to double the inspections of 10 million cars, when doubling the inspections produce no real dividends.

That being said, despite Toyota’s public humility about topping GM as the volume sales leader for the first time in history, I think the number one slot was *always* Toyota’s target. To reach that goal, they might have chinced on quality, but now their quality investment has to meet its current volume production.

The only number that’s magic, if you ask me, is how much money a car company will spend on quality control.

1115-
20 years of recalls to lower to where GM is.
What a nitwit statement.
New solid products are coming out what seems like monthly – not only from GM and other domestics but all around the business. In today’s market things change on a dime.
Have you never heard in business – “it takes years to gain what you can loose over night”?

Hey Vacduster
Toyota and Honda ddint earn their reps overnight it took 15-20 years of making quality cars that had high build quality and few problems. Now to an import hating patriot, the second Toyota or Honda have a recall they say “see see I told you so ” bc they are mad at the Japanese for coming in and making a better product than the Americans. You ned to be mad at the domestics for selling crap because they could all these years
Now if you think that thing can change on a dime then you, my patriotic friend are the nitwit

autonut: The U.S. needs laws like what you just described. Don’t give CR any credibility.

115: What propaganda? GM and toyota are not equal. That wold be bad for the General.

tripleolefluffer: that last post was pure idiocy. This recall should be investigated further before anyone comes to a conclusion about what direction Toyota is headed in.

1115 has officially blown a gasket, I think…

IF this news is true, this is much more serious than recalling floor mats! It appears that all of the recalls are mechanical problem.

1115, recall is not about which company recall the most vehicle over its lifetime. Open your eyes and look at the nature of the recall. Engine, fuel pump and steering compnents are all mechanical failure. CR also reported TRANSMISSION problem for the V6 Camry, electronic problem for the GS and AWD system problem for the Tundra. These are all mechanical issues.

I am sure you had your fair share of criticism of the Ford ignition recall, the Chrysler engine sludge build up recall etc. So why don’t you pull your head out of your @ss and accept that Japanese products are not always superior!

“Toyota and Honda ddint earn their reps overnight it took 15-20 years of making quality cars that had high build quality and few problems” – 1115

You’ve got that right, the big word in that whole sentence is “HAD” (past tense)!

sharpie: Domestic products are not always superior.

Well even if it is past tense GM Ford and Chrysler never HAD reliable dependable cars and currently dont HAVE any that can compete with the Japanese.
You can point out all of my grammatical errors and call me a monkey but the bottom line is Toyota and Honda still have more reliable products that have higher build quality and resale value than GM Ford and Chrysler!
Like I said It will take years of recalls from Toyota to be at the low quality level that the domestics are currently at .
At least Toyota is recalling the product unlike GM Ford and Chrysler who will deny it. If people don’t buy Toyota they will just buy Honda’s the domestics wont see that money. Keep dreaming

1115-
you are letting your huge bias cloud your small penallect.
You can’t read and you missed my whole point.
You posts are rather silly.
Your assignment-
go back and read to see if you get it.

“You can point out all of my grammatical errors and call me a monkey but the bottom line is Toyota and Honda still have more reliable products that have higher build quality and resale value than GM Ford and Chrysler!”

No.

Your assignment- Realize that Japanese cars are superior. Look it up

Great post JJt

We all agree that you say you THINK japanese cars are superior. Nothing else to look up.

jjt: hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

1115: you did it again – you missed the last jjt

1115: we all knew how much your panties would bunch up over all the bad tyyoda news – but you have to admit – this is fun.

It’s okay Toyota can do no wrong

Being a current two Toyota owner, and having owned four total, I’m just glad this recall is in Japan!

hahah this is great news..i love it!!

guys are we getting tired of replying to 1115 yet? we write one thing he reads it as another, there is no use trying to talk sense into somebody clearly blinded by bias. even the worst domestic haters are able to accept the fact that some non japaneese brands are great cars.
.
same goes with you 1115 are you not tired of trying to get everybody to see your one sided point by now?
at first it was kind of ammusing reading “every single non japaneese car ever crafted by human hands or robots just randomly explode because japan didnt make it”. now its not ammusing at all, not even a little. why…………..because if you refuse to believe that a non japaneese car can be a good car too, you really are just spinning misguided truths at us. we fully know its your opinion (which we all agree everybody`s opinion has its own merrit)and it has been stated the same day after day after day. even when nobody mentions gm and has positive things to say you come in and call people import hating partrios needlessly. serioulsy it would be nice to have a conversation with you about the global auto industry, or am i asking too much from you?

affliction got it right on in his first comment:

In their pursuit to sell so many cars, Toyota has completely forgotten about why people first took their cars seriously in the 90s. It’s only a matter of time before Toy’s reputation in the public’s eye fails.

GM is just about on Toyota’s level. TODAY (2007) you can go buy either a GM or Toy and in both cases you will have minimum problems with your vehicle. That wasn’t true 10 years ago, but now it seems to be

Toyotas have had their great days, and they’re still decent cars overall but there are a lot of gremlins with them that have gone under the radar. V6 engine sludge, 6-speed auto tranny issues, the steering problems, etc… they only affect certain vehicles but they’re definitely mechanical gremlins nonetheless. I don’t really like Honda/Toyota interiors lately either. They have nice materials but some of the interiors are kind of drab with little accenting.
GM and Ford are increasing their build quality. Neither company is near perfection, but their products today are far superior to the products they released even just three years ago.
Chrysler.. not much to say there. All their interiors look exactly the same with the bargain basement materials. Exteriors are kind of hit and miss. Mechanicals.. well, let’s just hope their transmissions work better now than they did in ages past.

Im not one sided at all. I just do my research and go by resale reliability and build quality. Look at any magazine for the last 20 years and see what brands of cars sell more, have higher resale and last longer.
Vac duster
I think you are a little to excited about womens undergarments, you should get laid. I wear boxers and they are not in a bunch bc Toyota is still # 1 andGM still has 10-15 years to go to prove themselves worthy of american consumers money.
Make all the jokes you want but Toyota is still on top

CTS, I guess I’m not tired of responding to 1115 yet! lol. 1115, I just recently bought a new 08 Duramax, lets list the ways the new Toyota Tundra is superior.

1. Only fullsize that did not receive a 5 star crash test rating.
2. Multiple 5.7 cam shaft failures resulting in engine replacements.
3. Multiple 6-speed transmission failures, some trucks are on their 3rd tranny.
4. Many have reported excessive bed shake over rough terrain.
5. Even the Import Bible Consumer Reports does not reccomend it. (much worse than average reliability)
6. No diesel or 3/4 option
7. Loses the majority of shootouts vs the Silverado.
8. Butt ugly! (personal opinion)
In contrast the new Silverado was the Motor Trend truck of the Year, North American truck of the Year, wins the majority of shootouts its placed in, has had a seamless launch, and most important for me is they have a kick ass diesel tranny combo.

One truck one year WOW Im impressed The thing is its doesnt matter because as I am typing right now Toyota is still # 1. Motor trend threw GM threw GM a mercy award. Check the last 20 years how many times has GM won anything ?
Also I hate to break ti to you but Americans are buying passenger cars and SUV’s. Hicks and construction workers buy trucks, not people with families

Fluffer: you’re like a cousin of mine from Flint, who only roots for detroit/michigan teams. If one of those teams wins, it’s because that team is better. If a detroit/michigan team loses, they got cheated.

“Hicks and construction workers buy trucks, not people with families”
How did you determine that?

MHW: If CR doesn’t bow down and worship a toyota, its REALLY bad!

Sorry 1115, trucks are still huge sellers, and most belong to families. And by the way, I am anything but a hick. I guess when you’ve clearly been had you have to resort to name calling. LOL

1115, you are clueless. Trucks are meant to be owned by people who need a truck, but just like with SUVs, many people own them because they like the high view of the road and the looks of those vehicles, so many families own them.

Lets look at some comparisions again
Camry vs Malibu – to be decided when the Bu comes out but so far, this new Camry is horrible & has many issues
Cobalt vs Corolla – both are VERY old, need redesigns
Silverado vs Tundra – Silverado (see MHW’s post)
Equinox vs RAV4 – RAV4 wins (but the Vue beats it)
Tahoe vs 4Runner – Tahoe obviously
Suburban vs Sequiya – Suburban obviously
Corvette vs ??? – lol, Toy makes nothing exciting
Impala vs Avalon I’ll give Toyota this one so Avalon

Hahaha…so who’s recalling who now, eh? 470,000+ vehicles, ROFL…this is just too good to be true Toy Ota.

LOL Commo

Camry vs. Malibu- The Malibu will be ignored just like the previous two (check the commercials) Camry has a reputation for build quality and reliability I don’t know what problems you are talking about but either way its superior and the name has been around for over 20 years, not to mention its more attractive. I cant see any Camry owner trading it for a Malibu. Camry, Accord or even Sonata Malibu are good choices for a family car but I cant wait to rent a Malibu

Corolla vs. Cobalt – Cobalt has been recalled for safety issues and is an unsafe unreliable car just like the Cavalier and the majority of domestics. The Corolla has been out since 2001 but it is a bestseller and it was refreshened and it continues to sell. Toyota had redesigned it but the HONDA CIVIC came out and Toyota had to go back to the drawing board. Its basically Japanese vs. Japanese now. The domestics don’t even count.

Tundra vs. Silverado- Who cares lol.

4Runner vs. Tahoe-? You mean 4 Runner vs. Trailblazer lol Good try. I’m not going to waste my time on that one

Highlander vs. Traverse- Highlander is better and is more reliable

Suburban vs. Sequoia- Lets see MILLIONS of GM trucks were recalled for brake issues. Sequoias had a recall for a leak it was less and Toyota has put out better quality for the last 20 years. Toyota is still more reliable and worth more

Toyota vs. Corvette- THE F—ING ROOF FLYS OFF THE VETTE! Lexus LF-A
Avalon vs. Impala- The Impala looks ok but the Avalon looks better has higher resale and is all around a superior car BC it’s a Japanese car

Toyota still # 1

*Camry Accord Sonata are good choices but not Malibu. I cant wait to rent a Malibu

Wow, did you not just realize that Consumer Reports said that the Camry was unreliable?? And the Aura has beaten the Camry in comparisons, so if the Malibu is anything like the Aura it will beat the Camry (plus the Aura has had no reliability problems).

Cavaliar and Cobalt are completely different cars. They cannot be compared. Yes, the Cobalt has had minor safety issues, but the Corolla is simply butt ugly. I’d take a Civic (or cobalt) over it any day. (Remember that I didn’t say that the Cobalt won, just said that both cars sucks).

Clearly Toy cares about the Tundra because they just spend so much money building that huge plant for it and developing it. There is TONS of money to be made in this segment so trust me, anyone that knows about the auto industry cars about it..I guess that doesn’t include you

4Runner is bigger than the Trailblazer. I don’t even know which ones of Toy’s SUVs compete with what..Toyota has way too many and they shouldn’t because they don’t sell them

Highlander vs Traverse?? When did I talk about that? Traverse (if its even called that) is not even out yet! Who can you judge a car that doesn’t even exist.

Suburban sells more and didn’t have 500000+ recalls recently. Need I say more? Oh, and it looks wayy better.

Toy vs Corvette? Haha you couldn’t even think of anything to compare to the Corvette. I am surprised you didn’t bring up the Supra or something. But again, LF-A is not out yet. You cannot automatically assume it will beat the Corvette (unless you are a really biased fuk)

“all around a superior car BC it’s a Japanese car” — it is when you say things like that, that I wonder why I am wasting my time with you. By the way, I SAID the Avalon won that one.

Toyota will be #1 in the world when the year is over, but I predict that they will never be #1 in the United States. Toyonda will only go down from here

Oh, and I think Altima is a better choice than Sonata. I myself rented both (yes, you can rent Jap cars more and more these days) and I thought that the Altima was more refined

111115 isn’t Toyota catering to the rental fleets now while the domestics are pulling back?

And why do you keep saying “the last 20 years” “the last 20 years” “the last 20 years”? everybodys point here is what is happening now. It’s like trying to communicate with a child.

I thought you didn’t believe in CR… Oh wait you believe it when it says something bad about Toyota. Who is the bias one >?? The Camry or Accord always win car of the year GM was thrown the equivalent of a Mercy screw with the Award
* The 2007 Camry won Motor Trend Car of the Year Award.
* The 2006 Camry won Consumer Search’s Proven Reliability Award in Best Family Sedans in June 2006. [5]
The Aura’s interior has been criticized for using cheap materials. Robert Cumber ford of Automobile Magazine claimed that the Aura is a good car watered down by GM’s cost cutting department.

Even if the Corolla was butt ugly (it’s not in my opinion) it’s a better seller and therefore doesn’t suck while the Cobalt is butt ugly doesn’t sell and got recalled. The Cobalt sucks not the Corolla. There is no factual info to justify that the Corolla sucks

The 4 Runner and Trailblazer are truck based SUV s that is direct competition for one another. You know the TB is bull**** and you tried to compare the Tahoe in a desperate attempt at trying to legitimize your argument but you failed again

Yea you are right they didn’t have 500,000 they had 2 MILLION !……and millions

I’m sure the Supra’s roof never flew off

I KNOW the Avalon wins BC Toyota is SUPERIOR. You seem to think that this is negotiable but its NOT! It’s based on the facts and the facts (resale reliability and build quality along with sales) say that the Japanese are better than the domestics. You are basing your decisions on Patriotism and looks

I don’t care about the Altima BC Nissan is Japanese but owned by a French company. Either way they are better than the Aura and Malibu

No sorry Envoy, the only cars that I see at rental companies are American with a few lower end Japanese cars like Mitsu and Suzuki sprinkled in. I think I saw a Sonata at Avis but no Honda or Toyota’s

What happened 20 years ago is happening today with GM. They are making crap, better crap but still crap and you want the Domestics to succeed so bad that you will actually say that they are equal to the Japanese.

Look at you fools, wasting hours of productive masturbatory time typing away, arguing about total uninspiring ****boxes like the Toyota Corolla and the Chevy Malibu. For god’s sake, have you all been castrated or something? Wake the **** up! Who cares about a ****ing recall?

- I still don’t like CR, they are just right this on this issue. That is not biased. Biased would be saying something like “and is all around a superior car BC it’s a Japanese car”.

- Aura won NA Car of the Year and beat the Camry in a Car and Driver comparision. Also, don’t use wikipedia citations next time, it makes you look like a 12 year old.

- Read my last two posts, never said that Cobalt was better than Corolla. Both need a redesign, currently the best in the segment is the Mazda 3 (since the Civic’s wheels fall off)

- 4 Runner is bigger than TB, closer in size to the Tahoe. Bottom line is America knows how to build SUVs; we invented them. I do, however, think that the TB and Equinox suck though.

- 2 million? Toyota can do even better. 3.5 million problematic vehicles! Toy wins again!

- Kiddo, if you read my last post you’d see that I SAID THE AVALON IS BETTER. SO I DON’T KNOW WHY THE FUK YOU ARE ARGUING ABOUT IT STILL. Never said anything about patriotism in the Avalon vs Impala argument so I don’t know where you got that.

- Why does it matter that Nissan is a French company?

- Actually, domestics have DRAMATICALLY cut fleet sales, so why don’t you take a guess where all those Taurus/old Malibu/old Impala sales are going? To BMW? I don’t think so. They are being picked up by Toyonda because Toyonda loooves big sales results. I was actually shocked that Toy was down the last few months since they have all these new rental cars to sell now.

It’s a car enthusiast site Deanster. This is what we talk about, so I don’t know why you’re here.
And I don’t think you know how much fun it is to respond to 1115 every time. I seriously laugh my ass off every time he posts a comment.

1115, have you ever seen a Vette with a blown out roof panel? Of course not, nor have I, and I dare say no one on this entire site has either. Point being it was a rare case that only effected a small number of cars before it was caught. The problem was in the bonding agent that came from an outside supplier, so get over it already. You also love to throw around GM’s old news truck recalls. You do realize that they sell well over a million trucks a year right? If they even have one bad part that may or may not have been built by GM it will effect millions of vehicles. Think about it!

To all you brainwashed people that think that Japanese cars are built in heaven and dropped to earth on some mission from GOD. Look it up, This is factual. The order of car companies with the most recalls in 2007 are: #1 VW, #2 Toyota, #3 Honda. Infact Toyota has had more recalls in 2007 then GM, Ford and Chrysler COMBINED!! Wake up!

Oh ok You don’t trust CR until they post something negative about Toyota
“they are just right this on this issue” but any other time they say something they are not ? You are running out of Ammo Cammo

Problematic meaning what ?Your bs engine sludge argument? Give me a break GM has real recalls for real issues not “engine sludge”

Cant take the Wikipedia quote huh ? That means you where on Wiki also so who is the 12 year old ? Thank you sit down. Name calling and laughing? Who is the 12 year old? Thank you sit down. None of that bull**** will help GM. You are not laughing anyway you are infuriated at my posts and me telling the truth and calling you a patriot so don’t try and play it cool now
The Camry is the 2007 car of the year the Aura got a Mercy screw with its award. If GM and the domestics would learn how to make passenger cars they wouldn’t be in the predicament that they are in today
You had no choice in admitting the Avalon is better, the 4 runner is the same class(not build quality and resale wise but size wise) as the Trailblazer and that the Corolla is better than the Cobalt. Toyota is a better car company Its fact! You are quickly running out of excuses and you are finally realizing it

Hey MHW & Rawdog
Have you ever seen a Toyota’s engine sludge ? Of course not. Do you realize that Honda sold nearly 200k Civics in 2 years? Has a wheel fallen off ? I dont think so. Just like Commodore you want the Japanese to fail due to patriotism. You dwell on one year not realizing the MAJOR issues GM has with even 2006 models. GM Ford and Chrysler have been having so many recalls over the years its not even a surprise anymore
If only now matter Toyota still sells more cars has better build quality than GM. If we go by the past the story is the same GM and the domestics are inferior

“You don’t trust CR until they post something negative about Toyota” Holy cow, listen to yourself. You need some help or something. the ONLY reason CR is relevant is that this is the first time in forever that they think Toyota is less than perfect. That is significant, don’t you think?

The ignorance of import lovers is astonishing at times. There are so many lies being written here that its tough to keep track.

Anyone who says criticizes people for touting these latest CR statements is simply stupid, period. I dont buy much of what CR says for a number of reasons but most ignorant domestic car haters have been quoting CR for years as the bible of automobile reliability. If that is what you believe than you cannot suddenly disregard CR’s results simply because you do not like them. This latest admission by CR that their “free pass” to Toyotas was wrong does little to impress me since I have felt this was a biased practice from the beginning. CR has no credibility now just as it didnt before this Toyota news came out. The point is that those who have been staunch advocates cant come up with excuses now. Its pure idiocy to dismiss Toyota’s troubles by saying “they would have to do this for 20 years to catch up with GM”. Why would you ever think its OK for Toyota to ever come close to the old GM’s quality? The real question is how could this ever happen since Toyota’s business model, engineering and production processes are supposedly infallable. Also so many have insisted for years that Toyota’s methods and results couldnt be duplicated by American companies since Toyota is all about honor and efficiency and not profit. The fact that domestic (and Korean) brands are getting better every year and Toyota is getting worse every year proves that logic is flawed.

“You dwell on one year not realizing the MAJOR issues GM has with even 2006 models. GM Ford and Chrysler have been having so many recalls over the years its not even a surprise anymore”

Total lie. Toyota has outpaced GM and Ford in recalls in recent years. There is nothing wrong with being a blind loyalist that will buy Toyota no matter what, but at least get your facts straight.

rawboy,

the beauty of the import fanatic is that the most recent results DO NOT MATTER. If you say domestic quality is up in the last decade they say “but what about the crap that was made in the 80s”. If you say import brands are recalling more vehicles in the last 2 years they say “but GM had way more recalls than Toyota 5 years ago”. Trends are totally insignificant to the average insufferable import snob. They pick and chose facts and time periods and then make their arguments. One of the main criticims of the Big 3 has been their refusal to acknowledge problems and make REAL changes to rectify them. We now have proof from JD power and CR that those changes are taking place and all we hear is “dont forget about what they made 20 years ago”. If I am buying a car TODAY why would I care about domestic reliability in 1987 or 1997? The whole point is continuous improvement and they have shown that and thus they deserve credit and respect just like Toyota and Honda get.

sj79: Interestingly enough, the exact same logic applies to domestic fanatics. Same lack of logic, same nit picking of information, just look at any Chrysler or GM recall thread on this site. You find the domestic fans trying the same tactics you describe import fans using. Lets look at the whole picture here.

No…I DON’T TRUST TOY PERIOD. THEY ARE CLEARLY RIGHT ON THIS ISSUE (as we see with this recall) which is why I AGREE with them in this case, I still don’t trust them. I evaluate things on a case by case basis. I don’t have to be completely in support of something (like you are with Japanese carmakers – you support them no matter what). I DO NOT TRUST CONSUMER REPORTS. Understood?

When you are old enough to buy a car kiddo, and you have engine sludge problems, you will discover that they are very real problems. They cost money to repair and waste your time to fix.

I don’t go on wikipedia…the only reason I knew you were on wikipedia was because of the “[5]” at the end of your quote that you copied and pasted from wikipedia. It’s quite sad actually. Wikipedia is bull****, what I am saying is fact so I don’t see why I am the ‘bull****ter”

The Camry won the 2007 car of the year? Umm..the Aura is Car of the Year. Search for “2007 North American Car of the Year” on google

Ok kiddo, I SAID THAT. I said that the Avalon is better, I said that the Cobalt/Corolla need a redesign and I said the Trailblazer is aging. I know it makes you feel good that I said those things, but you don’t need to repeat them to try to make yourself feel like you’ve won the argument..there was NO argument in regards to the Avalon, Trailblazer, and Corolla/Cobalt

Still haven’t answer these points that I made in my last post:
“- Why does it matter that Nissan is a French company?

- Actually, domestics have DRAMATICALLY cut fleet sales, so why don’t you take a guess where all those Taurus/old Malibu/old Impala sales are going? To BMW? I don’t think so. They are being picked up by Toyonda because Toyonda loooves big sales results. I was actually shocked that Toy was down the last few months since they have all these new rental cars to sell now.”

I love the new Malibu commercial. That’s the car i’m second-most interested in driving.

Commodore: The cobalt is better, but neither can fade the Mazda3 or Focus.

” I’ll give Toyota this one”
That’s what it is, too, GIVING it to tooyota. But the avalon is probably second best for the company to the land cruiser.

tripleonefluffer:
I cant see any Camry owner trading it for a Malibu. … for a family car but I cant wait to rent a Malibu.
I can’t wait for you to figure out apostrophes.
You can’t see much at all, through your tokyo rose-tinted glasses

“Tundra vs. Silverado- Who cares lol.”
In other words, you know you lose.

Highlander vs. Traverse- Highlander is better and is more reliable
Traverse doesn’t exist yet, dumb-ass

Commodore: there are people still driving ‘81 and ‘82 suburbans. I prefer sonata over altima. The latter is still the best commuter coffin from japan’s big 3.

Fluffer: “The Aura’s interior has been criticized for using cheap materials.” By whom?

“it’s a better seller and therefore doesn’t suck.” By that logic, N’sync (sp?) is a great “band.”

“You seem to think that this is negotiable but its NOT! It’s based on the facts and the facts (resale reliability and build quality along with sales) say that the Japanese are better than the domestics.”

and …
“Toyota is a better car company Its fact! ”

I’m coming back later with Merriam-Webster, since you’re still struggling with the concept of what a fact is.

And you’re generalizing about “the japanese” again.

Seems like you’re renting cars often. Your accord must break down more often than my civic did.

injunraiv: I never trust CR. A stopped watch is right twice a day.

sj79: good post at 8

lambo: recalls should be examined on a case-by-case basis. Some are utterly ridiculous lawer-driven ass-coverings.

Commodore: the french were on teh american side in WWII. The Fluffer views that as a betrayal.

Calling me a Kiddo wont help Gm lol and neither will pointing out my supposed lack of commas or whatever. Real sludge problems huh Please
I travel often so I look fwd to driving American crap BC I can’t get a superior Japanese car at a rental company. It doesn’t matter BC I only have to put with the ****ty quality and heavy driving of domestic vehicles for a week or so at a time. It just makes it better when I go home and drive my Japanese car. If you can provide proof that domestics decreased their fleet sales I may believe it

Wikipedia has criticisms on your precious Aura (GMs Savior) and now they are bull**** huh? The quote was from Automobile magazine and was repeated on WIKI lol Is this a case by case basis also lol

JD powers is a pay for play deal and CR is not trusted here even by your domestics cohort Commodore (unless they bash Toyota then that particular article is trusted but otherwise it’s untrustworthy)

If GM is smart (they are not) the Traverse will never come out. It’s already y out its called the Acadia… wait the Enclave … wait the Outlook

You have to go buy a dictionary BC I’m sure you don’t have one in your trailer

Japanese companies like Nissan are by far better than GM so the question is irrelevant just like your posts

Fluffer: “I can’t get a superior Japanese car” That’s because in monst cases, there’s no such thing.

JD Power and CR are bosh. Wikipedia is not to be used for real research, but it can often point you to trusted sources.

as promised, since there’s clearly no dictionary or any other real reference material in your trailer (or do you live in your accord?):

fact
Pronunciation: \ˈfakt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin factum, from neuter of factus, past participle of facere
Date: 15th century
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime carchaic : action
2archaic : performance, doing
3: the quality of being actual : actuality
4 a: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth

introducing…..the 2009 Toyota Twat!

If you read Autoweek, you get updates on things like anticipated fleet sales and such. GM and Ford have both vowed to cut those sales, as they tend to hurt residual value. All manufacturers guard their actual fleet sales figures, so it’s hard to get real numbers on what’s really happening. But all credible sources seem to agree that the domestics are cutting back. Toyota has agreeably stepped in to fill the void created by the new shortage.

Now watch your import resale values closely. I suspect you’re in for a slippery ride…

Oops, sorry. I meant ‘Automotive News’…

Have they really? Let me see a link to these “Credible sources” Show me some ?
I’m not worried about any resales of Japanese cars I have yet to see a Honda Accord or TL at a rental place. Ive seen a Hyundai Sonata which I am looking fwd to driving The 500 the Impala and the Sebring were made for rental fleets. That is the only time I get to drive American cars. I’m going on vacation in 4 weeks I cant wait to rent an American car

tripleonefluffer: how much time off does Anabolic give you?

“I’m not worried about any resales of Japanese cars I have yet to see a Honda Accord or TL at a rental place.”

Uh oh, is that you admitting that there is indeed a connection between resale values and the number of cars a car company sells to fleets?

And yea there are a lot of Sonatas up for rent because Hyundai thought they were making such a great car with the Sonata that they overproduced it and they now have 1000s sitting parked in their plant in Alabama. I don’t get why you like Hyundai so much? They cars are boring, they are not good in reliability ratings, they have mediocre resales…the only thing that they are good at is their warranty coverage.

Proof about what I said about the Sonata:
http://cheersandgears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20503

This is some forum article, but it has a source citation..in other words, it wasn’t written by Hyundai-haters. Just pointing that out before you try to discredit it for being a forum because the article actually comes from Business Week, not from a forum.

Uh no its me saying I have never seen higher end Japanese cars at a rental company. You and the other guy say that since the domestics are “dramatically reducing fleet sales” that the Japanese will take the spot You use the rental fleet excuse.If domestics were selling cars to consumers they wouldn’t have to sell to fleets.
If Hyundai and Kia have more cars than they sell they will take the spot- Is that what you are saying Patriot ?
The lower end Japanese companies that cant sell cars will sell to fleets. Honda and Toyota’s SELL. Mitsubishi’s and Suzuki’s are cars that don’t sell as much therefore they will end up in rental lots. I rented a Suzuki once and have seen Galants at Enterprise thats about it

My God. To get to a Sonata, you have to bypass a new Accord and Altima, as well as the freshened Camry, Ford Fusion, etc.
LOL notice how the Fusion is mentioned LAST and there is no mention of GM at all. What about the savior the Aura
The point is GM sucks. Hyundai started in the US in 86 and gave a warrantly and stood by their product no matter how ****ty it may have been. They have the Sante Fe, Veracruz and the Genesis coming out. I see them as being the next Toyota. GM has to offer a warranty now bc consumers know what they are about. I like Kia also. I would buy Hyundai before GM anyday
Heres a pic of the Sonata’s new interior http://bp3.blogger.com/_XEEIzU0UA1M/RxYr8MFTtQI/AAAAAAAADWI/dhs72VfE8uc/s1600-h/01.jpg

11111111115, you wrote, “Have they really? Let me see a link to these ‘Credible sources’ Show me some ?” In response to the previous comment made by injunraiv about domestics intentionally cutting back on fleet sales. I then posted your requested links (proof/facts) and you then tried divert attention from your error.

I could tell you were trying to back-peddal in your poor excuse for a response but you can’t run from your previous public comments. Does it feel like the walls are closing in on you?

You know what amazes me? 1115 is calling me a ‘patriot’ and trying to use it as a degrading or otherwise negative term. Being a patriot is a bad thing..since when?

Okay smart ass. The Big 3 sell 100,000s of cars less to fleets. Suzuki and Mitsu only sell a few hundred thousand cars in the USA a year anyway so those smaller companies don’t have the capacity to pick up all the fleet sales that the Big 3 leave behind. So who do you think absorbs those sales? In fact, Toyota’s Camry has 18% of its sales going to fleets while the new Malibu will have 20% of its sales go to fleets (compared to 40% in the previous gen Bu). 18 and 20 percent are pretty comparable, are they not? And by the way, the Camry used to have VERY LOW fleet sales but those have recently almost doubled (up from 10% just over a year ago).

You give another great example of your deep, deep bias. You claim that Hyundai gave a good warranty just because it wanted to stand by its cars and that GM was forced to give one to make people believe in them. The truth is, the original Hyundai Excel was the Yugo of 1986 – it was VERY cheap, but extremely unreliable. Thus, Hyundai gave a big warranty to try to get people to trust them again, and that is what GM did. GM wanted to make people more comfortable about buying a GM product since the public was very skeptical of GM’s quality when the warranties were introduced, same thing with Hyundai.

I do agree that Hyundai will one day be the next Toyota. Thanks to America, China will be a superpower, then India will be a superpower too and the same goes for cars; thanks to America, Honda will be a huge success next, and then Hyundai will be too. God bless the USA! (Am I allowed to say God or is the ACLU gonna get on me? Please don’t call them 1115)

Commodore: no matter how bad you talk about the sonata, I’d still take it over either accord.