LOL when is this sh!t gonna stop toyota? If you take away reliability formula out of toyota, it’s good as dead toyota

this is just getting too funny. no one is going to buy another toyota again. LOL

vvmasterdrfan@ I’m still going to buy Toyota, if they prove that they can do better that before. Men are not perfect creatures, and cars are made by men.

Does anyone know what the grand total of recalled Toyotas is so far?

@Troll Killer – Just shy of 8.5 million.

What vehicle does Toyota currently make that is NOT being recalled?

This will hurt Toyotas rep but in the end it will do little to their sales after 6 months or so.

this is getting old, smart people know that toyotas are POS, but they keep buying them anyway.

Isn’t it time the Toyota loyalists (if they are not in hiding) come out & admit they were wrong. Obviously Toyota wanted to #1 sooooooo bad that they forgot about not only quality but SAFETY!

GM was #1 for decades & may have had their quality issues as well. But GM NEVER had SAFEY recalls of Toyotas magnitude!

Isn’t it nice that we Americans have great quality cars build by GM & Ford to fall back on? Sometimes we learn in life that things aren’t always as they seem. Toyota has proven that to be a fact!

let’s all step on the ****roach Dr. Fill.

screw you. you moron. show yourself and admit you were wrong.

stupid ****. stop hiding.

and the LLN toyotathon continues!

Jeeze, Toyota’s getting it without any lube at this point

Ha ha this keeps getting better and better! Who cars if a stupid Prius or Yaris gets 40 miles to the gallon? MPG’s Arnt going to matter when your Car is going full throtle and you have no brakes. Buy American! Long live GM. Toyota is going to need a bailout soon with all these recalls.

doh! They say it rolls downhill…

Before we continue on our knee-jerk-a-thon, I wonder how this compares to recall data from other years / manufacturers. I’m willing to bet this isn’t close to a record for a company in this industry.

HAHAHAHAHA @ LLN FOR TRYING TO **** ON TOYOTA!

7,300 cars?! LOLLLLLL WTF you as.sholes, why didn’t you post the recent Audi & GM brake recalls? I thought so. They recalled a lot more than 7,300 cars for brake issues.

“shorter-than-intended” ?????????? Ummmmmmmm, what? …..Maybe there was shrinkage…

Assuming that the problem lies in the throttle system, my question is has Toyota recalled all cars that are affected? Other than the hybrids don’t all Toyota’s use this fly-by-wire system since they began using it? Why wouldn’t all the other vehicles be affected by the unintended acceleration issue?

all the rednecks looove to hate on toyota and of course praise american built cars. i cant believe such people could be so ignorant to think that american car companies are any better and less susceptible to recall.

Just in October 2009, ford recalled 4.5 MILLION vehicles. come on people dont just buy into what the media tells you.

>lazyathlete

You can say the same for all the Toyota hut huggers who have said how much more reliable and better Toyotas are than any other maker. The truth is that Toyota have never been as good as most like to believe. There is nothing special about Toyota never have been. They are no better no worse than any other maker when it comes to reliablility but the media and a lot of people rode that gravy train for a long time, it might just be time for other makers to get on that train now.

Premiering Sunday the new 13 part mini-series set in a rural Toyota service centre “Da Kink in My Tube” promises loads of laughs and heartfelt moments as technicians tackle the seemingly endless barrage of recalls.

Leaky tube? Can’t Toyota just do like their average buyer and apply some Depends?
(held on with zipties, no doubt)

Oh crap:

Toyota Motor Corp. faces yet another possible federal investigation, this time of the electric power steering in 2009 and 2010 Corollas.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is considering a formal investigation of alleged defects reported in the compact car, agency spokeswoman Karen Aldana said.
Automotive News found that the Corolla has been the subject of 83 power-steering complaints since April 2008, 76 of which have reported that the vehicle unexpectedly veers to the left or right at 40 miles an hour and up.
Complainants have compared the movement to being buffeted by strong winds, sliding on black ice, or hydroplaning. They said that after trying to straighten the car, it can overcorrect — requiring the driver to use a tight, persistent, two-handed grip on the wheel to travel in a straight line.

Cannot be true. Must be driver error.

CinO- keep driving toyota’s. Hey smoke a couple packs of cigarettes a day, they don’t cause cancer.

toyota, is making crap cars to save money. now, it is biting them in the a s s.

I would hate to own a toyota right now. Can’t sell them, and you don’t want to drive one.

Really… 83 people have taken their Corolla past 40mph?

johnny, of course they have, when the accelerator got stuck.

lazyathlete – the problem is not that Toyota is recalling vehicles at this point, it is that they were trying to keep it all covered up and are still being slimey scumbags and only doing what the government is forcing them to do. Here is the MEDIA’s article about the 4.5 million Ford’s (that didn’t kill people in fiery death):
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-recalls-4-5-million-vehicles-over-faulty-switch.html
“Of the 4.5 million vehicles recalled, Ford says that they only believe 1.1 million vehicles pose an actual safety risk with the other 3.4 million being recalled as a precaution.”
They recalled 75% of them JUST TO BE SURE
Have you seen Toyota do that at all?
Nope.

@josefltbc – He’s never coming back…I mean, would you?
@A4 – Your forgot, “…and they had a tail wind.”

@ Mark Kleis

Thanks

@ johnnycanuck and A4

lol seriously you guys need a tv show.

Toyota is dead now.
It will take looonnngggg time to establish the trust back with consumers.

It will take time, but they just need a couple of great cars and the proper marketing campaign. Other than the Prius, has anyone noticed that Toyotas in Japan aren’t being recalled? They always keep the good stuff to themselves.

They are looking to recall the 4 runner world wide.

alsvw@ Oh really? My IS has 90Kmiles on it, but it never give me a headache. You understand the media hype? They try to bring down Toyota. Where is Ford braking issue in hybrid models? they didn’t even recall the car, and you said nothing about that? I’m not American car hater, but there are also many things Ford is trying to cover up.
Btw I’m still happy to see VW being the world’s largest automaker, but not GM.

Lazy, an answer to your question:

Top 5 recalls

But Toyota’s recall has enough unusual twists to it that it’s difficult to predict how long the automaker’s problems will persist, said George Hoffer, a business professor at Virginia Commonwealth University who follows the auto industry.

Hoffer and some of his colleagues recently analyzed five of the largest high-profile recalls in the auto industry to provide some context for Toyota’s situation – including those involving the Ford Pinto, Ford Explorer and GM pickups with side-saddle fuel tanks.

“I would rank this among our top five in the size of the recall and the publicity it has attracted,” he said. “Toyota and Honda were on pedestals inside and outside the industry. Clearly, this has put Toyota behind the eight ball.”

LOL……

I normally will have something clever to say, but so far every thing has been said…

But like I said before, HOLLYWOOD could not had written a better screenplay….

Unfortunately for Toyota, all of their recalls for some time will be announced and due to public perception, many will assume it is for the same problem.

As someone said before, Toyota hung their hat on quality and reliability and are going to pay a steep price because of it. It appears they may be on the cusp of a long time wandering the wilderness a la Audi in the mid 80’s. This may take them a decade to work themselves out of and to rebuild a reputation. Best time to buy a Toyota: the upcoming generation. They will undoubtedly be over-engineered, perhaps in the same way the Camry was in the early-mid 90’s.

At this stage, I think Toyota is admiringly on a nitpicking roll as to any fixes since they are in the spotlight nowadays anyway. They want to iron out all major and minor, and current and possible defects now so that they can repave their way to building cars of exceptional quality as they have been reputed to be for years. By the same token, one doubts whether all car manufacturers are behaving as diligently and responsibly as Toyota for quality-control issues – hence, the frequent and annoying repair visits of other marques for even minor issues since there was no initial desire to recall or improve upon the original design/issue.

Some of you guys does not understand this, Toyota been hidding all these problem for 10 or more years now and finally Government got involve in. Ford has their recall, but they did not hide problem like this. early this month Ford has recalled 2010 Fusion and Milian Hyb. vehicle, for update software problem, but no accident. In 2007 State Farm Insurance has warm NHTSA about Toyota Camry, but no respond at that time until a CA state trooper die in his Lexus ES300 and kill the whole family.

We heard alot other recalled from other company, but they have respond faster then Toyota has. This is not the year for Toyota, and is going to hurts them for next couple years too.

CiNo ——-> Ford did recalled 2010 Fusion and Milian hyb last week, to update the software issue.

I am really wondering if Toyota will come back from all this. This has turned into a joke now.

I know that Toyota is having some problems now, but you can’t take away the years and years of reliability they have had. They will fix these problems and get back to business. I think some of these things come with being too big. They were the biggest in the world and that comes at a price. I had a 2001 Celica GTS and I kept it for 7yrs before trading for my 2007 335i coupe. I never had one problem with the Celica. I changed the oil, got new tires, etc. I know Toyota didn’t build that reputation for nothing. I had friends at the time with Land Rover and Mercedes,and they had many problems. Land Rover has to be the worst of them all.

???? one doubts whether all car manufacturers are behaving as diligently and responsibly as Toyota for quality-control issues ????

All the marques are virtually putting out the same reliable products. Not much difference in reliability.

The best is at 1.2 problems at 3 years and the average is 1.7. Not much difference.

toyota is near the top but so are many others.

http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2009043

bryan78701, GM was #1 for DECADES but many people on this forum feel GM deserves to die because they had some “growing pains’ as some Toyota loyalists are saying. So, Toyota gets a free pass for all their mounting & dangerous problems & GM & Ford get bashed & labled poor products? Give me a break. There are millions of GM & Ford vehicles on the road today. I would be willing to bet the majority of them have had few if any major problems. You make it sound like Toyotas are the only cars that will last. B.S.

Toyota had a huge lapse in quality mainly due to trying to be #1. State Farm recently stated that they informed the U.S. Gov’t about the high number of unintended acceleration accidents in Toyotas a few years ago. HHHMMMMMM, It doesn’t look like Toyota tried to do the ‘right thing’ & take care of the problem in 2007.

The only reason Toyota has responded to these problems is because they had to. Otherwise, they could care less if people were killed driving their dangerous cars & trucks. It’s all about profit & image with Toyota.

What comes around goes around.

-BUT WAIT THERE’S MORE-……

-BRAKING NEWS-….

M/T is reporting that 2009 & 2010 Toyota Corolla’s are being looked in to by the NHTSA due to complaints of faulty steering….

So seriously, be aware of any Toyota’s next to you on road!…. Here’s the link……

http://wot.motortrend.com/6606547/recalls/report-nhtsa-taking-complaints-on-toyota-corolla-steering-issues/index.html

LLN… fill free to put me on the payroll…..

@Fuzz: Fork lifts.

carstuff, I concur with most of what you said. The difference is details at this point. If you like steering and car reflexes better in Toyota you will buy Toyota.
After reading this circus with brakes, unintended acceleration, etc, I don’t believe Toyota will loose tremendous amount of customers. Statistically speaking, there are over 10 millions Toyota cars roaming earth and there are 20 documented deaths that can be attributed to car problems. Do we know what are the numbers for GM, Ford VW? Simply put; we don’t. Forbes (magazine) critics raised a question: what is problems Toyota is facing are exaggerated by NHTSA to help Government Motors to get traction? Is it far fetched? I am not conspiracy theorist and I completely rule out conspiracy since it will backfire with vengeance if there even a stink of it. Can government bureaucrat slightly embellish reality to get approval of his boss? If I would be that bureaucrat, I might do this. I do believe that it was Toyota’s arrogance that made this bed to sleep in. At this point, I believe Toyota will bend over backward just as it did 30 years ago to gain the trust in the first place.
I was thinking why Toyota went for ECU vs. wire throttle and thought occurred that perhaps there are issues with mechanical linkage. Imagine hurricane that occurs under the hood when it closed and all those belts and fans are moving. Mechanical system would susceptible to malfunction due debris flying into things and getting lodged. Those ECU’s are minimizing mechanical failure, however they are not completely fail safe. Well, frankly, nothing is.

“Hey smoke a couple packs of cigarettes a day, they don’t cause cancer.”

Actually, they don’t. Cigarettes increase your risk of getting certain types of cancer. Plenty of people smoke daily and never get cancer; likewise, plenty of people who have never smoked a single cigarette have gotten cancer.

“They recalled 75% of them JUST TO BE SURE
Have you seen Toyota do that at all?”

You seriously think that every Toyota recalled poses a serious safety risk? Ford’s problem caused vehicle fires. That’s a little more serious than a stuck accelerator. At least with a stuck accelerator, the problem is easily noticed and easily controllable.

“At this stage, I think Toyota is admiringly on a nitpicking roll as to any fixes since they are in the spotlight nowadays anyway. They want to iron out all major and minor, and current and possible defects now so that they can repave their way to building cars of exceptional quality as they have been reputed to be for years.”

Finally, someone gets it. Toyota is working to be proactive in handling additional recall issues instead of giving people the impression that they’re sitting on things, like they did with the UA issue. But LLN commenters damn Toyota no matter what they do. First they complain about Toyota not issuing recalls fast enough (and rightly so), and then they complain when Toyota tries to preempt another potential problem. You guys just love to hate Toyota, don’t you?

rarson, you’re wrong…the single highest risk factor for lung cancer is smoking…it is a cause of lung cancer…the rate of lung cancer in non-smokers is statistically muuuuuch smaller than the rate in smokers…sure, some people smoke for decades and don’t get cancer, and some people get cancer that never smoked, but those are the exceptions, statistically…your logic is very, very flawed on this…

“Some of you guys does not understand this, Toyota been hidding all these problem for 10 or more years now and finally Government got involve in.”

Finally? If this were 2002- you know, when the government first got involved- then you’d be correct.

“In 2007 State Farm Insurance has warm NHTSA about Toyota Camry, but no respond at that time until a CA state trooper die in his Lexus ES300 and kill the whole family.”

You must be out of the loop. NHTSA investigated unintended acceleration 8 times since 2002 before that trooper killed his family. But then again, the media hype never told you that, did it?

“GM was #1 for DECADES but many people on this forum feel GM deserves to die because they had some “growing pains’ as some Toyota loyalists are saying.”

GM built **** cars for decades. Popular doesn’t automatically mean good. The top-selling book of all time is the Bible. #2 is Quotations from Chairman Mao.

“The only reason Toyota has responded to these problems is because they had to.”

…no duh? Maintaining a quality image is a necessary step to keep customers coming back. Whether the government tells them to or not, companies like Toyota and Ford HAVE to issue recalls to do that.

“Otherwise, they could care less if people were killed driving their dangerous cars & trucks.”

Automobile accidents happen all the time. Are you saying that Toyota should feel personally responsible when someone misuses the product that they sell? It’s not like unintended acceleration disables the gear selector or steers people into trees.

“It’s all about profit & image with Toyota.”

Yeah, it’s called business. It’s what gives the company incentive to produce products that people want. Otherwise, cars would be insanely expensive and nobody would drive them. How dare the company attempt to be profitable!

“Those ECU’s are minimizing mechanical failure, however they are not completely fail safe. Well, frankly, nothing is.”

Exactly. People are complaining that Toyota doesn’t have a “smart throttle” system that closes the throttle when the brakes are applied, but then what happens if the throttle shaft or butterfly breaks? The “smart throttle” system isn’t going to work. People need to accept the fact that unintended acceleration is a potential problem no matter what failsafes are put in place. It’s almost as if people would rather fight to remain ignorant than accept reality and learn how to deal with it.

“rarson, you’re wrong…the single highest risk factor for lung cancer is smoking”

I never said it wasn’t.

“the rate of lung cancer in non-smokers is statistically muuuuuch smaller than the rate in smokers”

I know that. I never stated otherwise. From Wikipedia:

“Among male smokers, the lifetime risk of developing lung cancer is 17.2%; among female smokers, the risk is 11.6%. This risk is significantly lower in nonsmokers: 1.3% in men and 1.4% in women.”

17.2% is far from a predetermined outcome.

“sure, some people smoke for decades and don’t get cancer, and some people get cancer that never smoked, but those are the exceptions, statistically…your logic is very, very flawed on this…”

My logic is fine, it’s your reading comprehension that is flawed. Smoking increases your risk of getting cancer, that’s what I said. Just because someone decides to play the odds does not mean they’re guaranteed to get cancer.

Hay, I don’t love to hate Toyota, I just don’t like’em…..

Don’t like there styling, don’t like how cheap they fill compare to other Japanese cars around the same price range.

And let’s point out the fact, that they them self’s are saying that did know of ongoing issue’s that can put owners life’s at risk.

Since the Ford Firestone episode, U.S. automaker have looked out for safety first. They all saw how Ford Mo.Co. went from No.1 to No.3 faster then you can say HOLLY SH*T!…

It is a FACT that people have died due to Toyota’s negligence, and once again they are saying they knew of the potential issues….

Rarson – You know you can be a real jack@ss at times. All you seem to do on this site is try and pick fights. Especially on the Toyota links. Do you work for Toyota? It is amazing how much you spout off on this considering no one can actually see your or knows who you are. Are like this in person. At this point I would love to see you in a Lexus ES350 stuck WOT and see if you can do better than everyone else.

It is a FACT that people have died due to Toyota’s negligence, and once again they are saying they knew of the potential issues….”

This is where I disagree with you. People that died due to unintended acceleration did so because THEY weren’t able to properly respond in that situation. That’s not Toyota’s fault. Cars have suffered from unintended acceleration throughout the history of the automobile. People should know by now how to react when it happens.

gabnmantha- I am not saying Toyota gets a pass, but I don’t think people can start acting as if all Toyota does is build junk. There is ample evidence of their quality. I am a huge GM fan and an American, so I have always felt that the American car companies get a bum rap. GM and Ford are building some of the best products ever and I would definitley consider something from either one.

“You know you can be a real jack@ss at times. All you seem to do on this site is try and pick fights.”

You should try actually reading my comments sometime. All I try to do is correct inaccurate information, and occasionally post a brief comment or two.

“Do you work for Toyota?”

Why would you assume that? Had you actually read my posts, you’d know that I criticize Toyota for being slow to fix a problem that has been investigated for about 8 years now. Just because I’m able to ignore appeals to emotion and assess the situation rationally instead of yelling for the head of Toyota on a stick doesn’t mean that I’m biased towards them. I’ve never even owned a single Toyota in my life.

“At this point I would love to see you in a Lexus ES350 stuck WOT and see if you can do better than everyone else.”

See, I really am dumbfounded when I come across statements as dumb as this one. EVERYONE else? You honestly think that every single person who has had unintended acceleration in a Toyota product has died? Or even crashed? Or are you just implying that you and the people around you are incapable of taking such simple action as putting a car into neutral, stepping on the brake, or shutting the car off, just like the dumbass cop who killed himself and 3 of his family members?

The responses that I’m seeing to this media cluster**** are just mind-numbing. People get emotional and throw logic right out the window. Car and Driver summed it up pretty damn well:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/10q1/toyota_recall_scandal_media_circus_and_stupid_drivers-editorial

@Lefty. when my older child was small her doc suspected anomalies in her lungs and went to see a specialist. He actually was a consultant for CNN and happen to live very close to us and as it turned out my wife knew his mrs. and he even heard of our child. We even became good acquaintances and visited each other houses for dinners, concerts etc. Based on what he told me (albeit it was 20 years ago) smoking causes statistically small percentage of cancer victims! Yes, people who smoke has a higher rate of cancer (not only lungs, but throat, tongue, nose etc), but statistically he expected to see much larger number. However, that number wasn’t there. That doc actually got JD (became a lawyer) and was active in some cases (I don’t know if he defended tobacco or chased them). I am not advocating smoking, I am reformed smoker myself, but I am not sure I would quit smoking if I really knew statistics as I know now. Same statistical truth needs to be applied to UA, brakes and other maladies. As I mentioned before, Toyota made that bed (of nails) and now has to rest in it.

Rarson , your quote: “Automobile accidents happen all the time. Are you saying that Toyota should feel personally responsible when someone misuses the product that they sell? It’s not like unintended acceleration disables the gear selector or steers people into trees”.

So, according to you, when the gas tanks blew up in the Ford Pintos & Ford knew that was a potential problem, it is the fault of the Pinto’s owners for not wearing a fire suit. Afterall, fires have been occuring in car accidents for years & drivers should know what to do whan that happens….right?

@… rarson check out the link I posted in LLN’s “Toyota’s congressional hearings post-poned due to snow storm” page, there’s more to the story.

True some divers lack driving skills that can safe their life’s, the CHP officer did not know you had to hold the off button on the Lexus for more then 3 seconds to shut off the car.

But Toyota did know of the potential problem, and sadly it took a cop’s life, to get more Government agency’s to get involved, kinda makes anyone else that lost there life to be in vane.

Regardless of lost of life, they are saying they new, and they did nothing until someone said something…

If this keeps going on, Toyota will be the new laughing stock to take Chryslers place.

09Accord. I think it just about is now.

Rarson – Regarding what I said and you replied to below. I was not implying that everyone that has had this happen to has died. I was more implying for you to say the things you say once you have been stuck in a car at WOT on busy highway and see well you react. I bet you would not be as calm as you are sitting in front of computer screen talking about. You have not been in the situation as that CHP was in. You know nothing of the matter. Everything everyone says on here is speculative regarding the what happened to him and his family. Some are just looking at the facts presented. And then there are people like you who disagree with the facts reported saying anyone who has been in this situation should have had more driver training. It makes you look like an idiot. So please do everyone a favor and shut up already.

““At this point I would love to see you in a Lexus ES350 stuck WOT and see if you can do better than everyone else.”

See, I really am dumbfounded when I come across statements as dumb as this one. EVERYONE else? You honestly think that every single person who has had unintended acceleration in a Toyota product has died? Or even crashed? Or are you just implying that you and the people around you are incapable of taking such simple action as putting a car into neutral, stepping on the brake, or shutting the car off, just like the dumbass cop who killed himself and 3 of his family members?”

“So, according to you, when the gas tanks blew up in the Ford Pintos & Ford knew that was a potential problem, it is the fault of the Pinto’s owners for not wearing a fire suit.”

I already addressed this above: “Ford’s problem caused vehicle fires. That’s a little more serious than a stuck accelerator. At least with a stuck accelerator, the problem is easily noticed and easily controllable.” The statement you made is according to you, not me.

“the CHP officer did not know you had to hold the off button on the Lexus for more then 3 seconds to shut off the car.”

Yeah, but he shouldn’t have even needed to shut the car off, he should have gotten it into neutral within a few seconds of the car accelerating on its own. And if he didn’t understand how to operate the car in the first place, he shouldn’t have been driving the car. If I sat in an unfamiliar car that had no key and a start button, the first thing I would think is “Hey, how do I turn this thing off?” and I wouldn’t drive it anywhere without figuring that out first. He wasn’t prepared to drive the car. You’d think a CHP officer would have the awareness to ensure that he was familiar with the vehicle before driving around in it.

“Regardless of lost of life, they are saying they new, and they did nothing until someone said something.”

The same statement can be made about the NHTSA. The NHTSA is the agency created to ensure vehicle safety; why couldn’t they find a defect over the course of 8 investigations? If you’re going to blame Toyota, then you have to blame the government, too. Hell, why not blame the media for not making more noise about the first 8 investigations? The media didn’t even get in on it until the recall was done.

People are so quick to hark on the dangers of driving a Toyota and the passion displayed for Toyota’s doom by a lot of posters online is quite disturbing. I am not in full support of Toyota for its obvious failed strategies of late but the hate spewed out of ignorance and mere spite by some people are rather surprising. I would rather attempt to assess Toyota’s situation using logic and rationale.

I opine that it is far more dangerous having on the roads a huge percentage of the combination of inexperienced/less skilled drivers and a prevalence of those who insist on dangerous multi-tasking (eg. texting, cell phone use, etc) while driving than a TINY overall percentage of cars that experienced unintended acceleration (which is not exclusive to Toyota in automotive history) The media is on an annoying frenzy. If that’s the case, let’s expect an up-to-date report on any and every recall, ‘hidden’ and made public by all car companies.

COME-ON GUYS, let’s get this up to 100 post on this page, WE CAN DO IT!!!!

@… rarson….

Don’t forget Toyota gave a job to the NHTSA agent that was investigating Toyota…

He took all the info he had accumulated on Toyota’s issues. When the NHTSA reopen the case the new agents on the job drop there investigation, they say they found no problem…

Lets go to today, a lawyer found records at the NHTSA about the investigation…
http://www.leftlanenews.com/feds-excluded-most-severe-cases-of-runaway-toyotas.html

True the media is blowing this up, and it may seem everyone is taking cheap shots at Toyota, true. But as long as more stuff keeps coming out it’s all fair game…

Sorry… once the Congregational hearings take place we will see more, and once the Fed. Gov. decides to take action on the NHTSA / Toyota employee, and review the NHTSA, and a Congregational hearing for that…

Well what can we say?…….

Toyota ask for it, they wanted to be No.1 and when your No.1 everyone guns for you….

Go’s with the territory….

no, your logic is completely flawed, rarson, and my reading comprehension is fine…your argument is a logical fallacy…for example, i can substitute “gunshot wound” in place of smoking in your argument and the same principle applies…not everybody dies from a gunshot wound, but a lot of people do, and the gunshot wound does in fact cause their death…so in the same vein, cigarettes do indeed cause cancer deaths…

the fact that not everybody who smokes dies from cancer does not mean that cigarettes don’t cause cancer…which is what you appeared to be saying when you said “actually, they don’t” <— this is still very wrong no matter how you slice it and no matter how you try to attack my reading comprehension…what you said was actually irresponsibly wrong…

Rarson, your logic is moronic

Megan Fox is hot, even though she has an abnormally large thumb.

Sorry, what are you tools arguing about?

“the fact that not everybody who smokes dies from cancer does not mean that cigarettes don’t cause cancer…which is what you appeared to be saying when you said “actually, they don’t” <— this is still very wrong no matter how you slice it and no matter how you try to attack my reading comprehension…what you said was actually irresponsibly wrong…"

That's how you interpret it, and that's fine with me, but as it stands, the facts support my statement that smoking is a risk factor and that smoking does not guarantee that a person will get cancer. I'm done arguing this point as I have provided justification for my argument.

"Rarson, your logic is moronic" (sic)

I bow to your superior reasoning skills! I simply have no answer in reply! You are definitely the master debater!

"Megan Fox is hot, even though she has an abnormally large thumb."

Personally, I think she's rather mannish. And that has nothing to do with her thumb (I really hadn't noticed). I just don't think she's that hot.

ajm11, I just realized that I never properly responded to you.

“I bet you would not be as calm as you are sitting in front of computer screen talking about.”

Okay, you bet that, but not knowing me or my ability to control a vehicle, you have no more ground in supposing what I would do than me, and I would actually argue that I’m more capable of assessing my own ability of handling an emergency situation than a random person over the internet responding to text comments. So really, your statement above is worthless.

“You know nothing of the matter.”

I know quite a bit, from what has been reported on the matter, including the audio of the 911 call.

“And then there are people like you who disagree with the facts reported saying anyone who has been in this situation should have had more driver training.”

Huh? I haven’t disagreed with any facts presented. I simply came to the conclusion that the officer wasn’t capable of operating the car. And given that he killed 4 people, the facts would seem to agree with me.

Rarson – you know every news story, you have proven my point over and over that you are nothing argumentative. If you know that much about the entire situation including the 911 call you should also know that they attempted to shift the car into Neutral with no effect. You main basis for saying people need more training for driving. You should also know that saying the cop didnt know how to shut the car off was also a grey area since it doesnt take 3 second of holding button if your car is not in motion. Some other manufacturers I seem to recall it was infiniti if you hit the button multiple times it will shut off but not Toyota/Lexus. Please provide proof that handle a car that is racing in traffic in that situation and I will glad admit you are better driver. For now my opinion of you is you are a jack@ss who gets his jollies off by jerking around people by arguing with. I have said enough on this matter and will be ignoring all posts from you from now on.

I’m not being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, I’m being argumentative to for the sake of getting the facts straight. Such as this:

“If you know that much about the entire situation including the 911 call you should also know that they attempted to shift the car into Neutral with no effect.”

I’d love to know how exactly you come to this conclusion. Please provide the evidence that supports this claim. Had he actually tried to put the car into neutral properly (as in, moving the shift lever to “N”), the car would have stopped accelerating and 4 people would not have died.

“it doesnt take 3 second of holding button if your car is not in motion.”

It also doesn’t take 2 minutes to figure out after hitting the button a couple times that you have to hold it down. Seriously, hit it once and it doesn’t shut off. Okay, maybe tap it a couple times. Still nothing? Press and hold it, like a computer or other electronic device. Ah, there we go, the car is off. Total time: maybe 15 seconds?

Of course, there’s also the other alternative, which is to actually read the damn owner’s manual before operating the car. But it’s really a moot point anyway since the car doesn’t need to be shut off until after it’s brought to a stop in neutral.

“Some other manufacturers I seem to recall it was infiniti if you hit the button multiple times it will shut off but not Toyota/Lexus.”

Yeah, Nissan’s system will shut off if you either hold it for two seconds or tap the button 3 times. I would agree that Nissan’s system is better and I think Toyota should improve theirs accordingly.

“Please provide proof that handle a car that is racing in traffic in that situation and I will glad admit you are better driver.”

Well, I wouldn’t race the car through traffic in the first place, because I don’t drive recklessly like that and I choose a manual over an automatic every time, so I wouldn’t even have to take the car out of gear. Even assuming I’m driving an automatic Toyota (which is highly unlikely), I’m very cautious about following distance (thanks to the fact that I’ve been rear-ended by someone who couldn’t stop their car fast enough) and braking early. And I know how to put a car into neutral, so the car would never reach such high speeds, just like the guy who tested an actual ES 350. That’s the point that you keep ignoring: the guy shouldn’t have had to race the car around through traffic if he would have just done one of 3 relatively simple things. But seriously, what “proof” could I possibly offer you? You’re just making a ridiculous request so that you can be argumentative.

@… rarson

People are dead, regardless of who they were in this word now they are gone.

Toyota came out and said that they knew it had a issue with their accelerators.

They have personal that has been link to helping resolve any issues of automotive safety.

They handed the recall the wrong way from the start.

Maybe it’s just 1/4 of the deaths of Toyota’s issues that can be linked one of the recalls. The rest being truly diver error.

But Toyota already clams responsibility for poor quality, in what they call “a crises”.

They enter a plead of “GUILTY”, they shot them self’s in the foot…

Here’s the link…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/08/AR2010020803078.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

I do think it’s ridiculous that Toyota and the NHTSA have investigated a high number of complaints for unintended acceleration for 8 years before they found something to recall.

I don’t necessarily disagree with how they handled the recall, other than I think they went way too slow and spent too much time posturing and making statements to protect their image instead of just working as fast as they could to get the recalls done (which, ironically, probably would have saved their image a bit). People are complaining that Toyota started with floor mats and moved to pedal assemblies, which is a bad argument; Toyota found them to cause problems and chose to remedy them first, which is a sensible decision. It is rather a shame that Toyota couldn’t come up with a better fix than zip ties in their expensive luxury vehicles.

Toyota admits that their cars haven’t been living up to the quality standards that they themselves set. They admit that their cars have been having problems, hence all the recalls. Toyota isn’t taking fault for any deaths, and nor should they, because they didn’t cause them. The safety defect didn’t cause them either. Lack of appropriate action by the drivers of the cars caused them.

Yeah, it’s too bad that something- whether it was a floor mat, a pedal design, a broken throttle body, an ECU problem, plain old driver error, etc.- put those drivers in a situation that they weren’t prepared to handle, but given that they had driver’s licenses, they should have been.

What Toyota needs to do now is continue investigating potential causes for unintended acceleration, because I have a feeling that they might still have at least one more issue they can remedy that is causing it.