Nice try on the spin;-) Yeah, I know, no material to work with lol:-)) Can’t wait for the new LF-A… Hmmm… concept – reality. Hello more camrys:-)) Oh yeah, they’ve boosted production and incentives – very GMesque wouldn’t y’all say;-)) As I said in December no company in this sector rates a buy or a hold – period!

DB9

I reckon higher losses are condiments accompanying #1 title. The bad news is that eventually Toyota will slow down and fire employees from US factories. The good news that all of their losses do not require our taxes to fill the gap. Let either investors or Japanese taxpayers worry about this fiasco. Worth noting that their credit rating is AA, I wonder if we have any other institution Berkshire aside with similar rating.

Toy-yo-DAA is trying to beat GM in everything .

With more quality issues, high amounts of units sold to Fleet and Rental, lowering market shares – I’d say it’s not looking all too positive in Toyota’s tent as of late. They’ll probably make out of it fine, but I really don’t like Toyota – I think it stems because they make such ugly cars – so if they don’t make it, I won’t be all to sad. Someone will take there place, maybe VW or Ford? I can only dream….

Borat:
They did get tax money from every city when those citys payed them to build factories in the US.

And soon Kaizen will be here to tell us that this enormous loss is indicative of the high desirability of Toyotas and how demand outstrips supply.

Well at least they don t have to shut down brands and at least they dont have their pony car (which took 3 yrs of hype) getting recalled within a week of its release

Toyota should get rid of some models that they dont really need like the 4 Runner, The Land Cruiser and the FJ
The Sequoia, The Highlander and the Rav 4 along with the Venza should be all the SUV/CUV’s in the lineup. Give Lexus an entry level SUV under he RX based on the Rav 4 and get rid of the LX and redesign the GX to do Battle with the MDX’s of the world

^^^^^^^^^hahaahahahaaahaa

Caddy, they got tax concessions. Show me city with budget item to pay Toyota to place factory there. Toyota does not pay taxes or pay portion of taxes on land use. In exchange city gets few thousand payed residents who pay taxes on real estate and support local business. They also get state concessions, for the same reason.

Finally that “Ohhhh what a feeling” line has come back to bite Toyota in the äss instead of its customers.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAaaaaa,,,,,

Well at least they don t have to shut down brands and at least they dont have their pony car (which took 3 yrs of hype) getting recalled within a week of its release
^^^^^^^^^hahaahahahaaahaa
Yea shutting down brands and having the Camaro recalled withing a week is funny A4 I agree with you

A lot of bubbles popped today. Toyota is blowing, nobody is buying.

Try incentives, build cars people want, call Obama, use sepuku, step aside lol

Yup, you can charge a premium for cars without soul or beauty when things go well like between 2002 and 2007, but when shat hits the fan, people finally stop and think about what car they’re buying and how they’re getting ripped off.

Add to that the fact that Toyota really no longer has a serious edge in quality over most manufacturers and you get this…

I for one am not going to cry or feel compassionate for them in any ways.

I guess that congressman that scolded the big three on capital hill last year during the bailout hearings, when he stated “if you ran your businesses like Toyota, we wouldn’t be here right now”, is one big jacka$$! Even the mighty “BIG T” is affected adversely when people stop buying vehicles in mass. So maybe the BIG 3 are building vehicles that people want, just not enough people in general buying vehicles…??? Thats why in hard times those with the large stockpiles of cash gooble up the deals so they can continue to stockpile cash when good times come. Toyota has money and lots of sources to get money.

Over the last 5 years the Toyota fake hood scoop corporations quest to beat GM has all but turned them into GM. The only real difference between the 2 is one of them HAD the highest legacy costs in the industry, 3 fold. The other supports clubbing baby seals.
111Wigger has a good idea, get rid of the 3 SUVs with character. Good thing they killed the coupe w/Subbie. That would have stole sales from the?

It really hits home when you have to call the Toyota dealer to schedule a service apointment and you are always told a date at least 2 weeks out. Huh? it’s been happening at the Lexus dealership too. You sit in the (nice) service lounge with quite a few other people while looking out at the empty sales floor. Hmm

@ DB9, Goldman Sachs upgraded Ford to a “Buy” last month.

That Toyota lost $7 billion just goes to show that they can be affected by the whims of the markets, just like any other company.

I just hope the media gives this all the attention it deserves, which is tons. It’s time to undo the decades of brainwashing that the almighty Japanese are infallible. They’re not. And maybe this will be enough to make a few of the sheeple scratch their heads and go ‘well how can that be? I thought they made the best cars.’

Keep it coming. Like I’ve said before, if the masses hear something often enough eventually it will get through.

Only triple on stupid could try to spin this to distract us. The whole “global slowdown” isnt enough to explain this performancs. Honda, BMW, FOrd and Hyundai all did FAR better than this. Even GM did better than this and they are facing tons of negative press. If Toyota is the most efficient, smartest, most technically advanced automaker in the world they should not be facing numbers like this.

How dumb is it to say Toyota hasnt cut brands when Toyota only has three brands in the first place? Triple on stupid is REALLY reaching now. Here is the thing, if GM’s sales pick up just a little bit they can easily outperform Toyota financially because they have been slashing workers and costs for years and its only picked up in the last 6 months or so. Meanwhile, Toyota is still paying workers 100% of their salary for not building trucks that no one wants. How much longer will Toyota resist cutting back its bloated workforce?

@ tripleonefive
if they get rid of those junk vehicles like your saying than they would be exactly like GM. Now wouldnt that be a contradiction to what you just said? Toyota is having trouble mostly because they have untrained scummy sales people who are no better trained than the guy at Walmart who is just stocking shelves in the hardware dept and knows nothing about the department he is working in. They have been just clerking cars for so long and now they actually have to sell the product and realizing they do not have the ability to build value in their product.

While I have the utmost disdain for Toyota and Toyogasmatics there capital situation does definately help. That said their business model over the last 5 years was a growth orientated model. The market shrinkage will have a far more devistating effect on Toyota’s coffers, investments in Indiana and Texas cost them dearly and does every day.

I do truly love your absolute loyalty to the Toyota myth Tripleon. You want to bring up domestic recalls but you get real quiet about the Tundra, Camry and Sienna’s serious quality issues. The Tundra came right of the box with cam shaft issues on that peice of crap boat anchor of an engine….”but at least they identified it and took measures…..” right Triple?

“I just hope the media gives this all the attention it deserves, which is tons. It’s time to undo the decades of brainwashing that the almighty Japanese are infallible. ”

Not going to happen. In articles I read analysts are saying this is no big deal and Toyota will emerge stronger than ever. Everyone is dismissing this as nothing more than a reflection of the overall market and claim Toyota is so flush with cash that they can easily ride this out. No blame on the management at all. In the US Toyota can do no wrong.

Oh yes, Toyota needs to can Scion because its a failure. Pontiac and Saturn are headed for the scrap heap and both handily outsell Scion every single month. Scion was a fad and its time has passed already.

I have been driving Toyota’s since 1982. We purchased a 2007 Camry (our 4th Camry and 8th Toyoyta). We have had some very annoying problems with it. The fit and finish was not up to what we had come to expect and we have had to make repeated trips to the dealers for the same problems. In trying to work with the dealer to get the issues resolved…. the service manger told me that they rushed that model year to market and they have in fact had a lot of very unhappy customers. While no car company can hit a home run every time… I had to ask myself why it was I paid extra for the Toyota nameplate. Last month we purchased our first “non-Toyota” in over 27 years and I have to tell you…. I do not feel as though we took a step down on anything other than the monthly payment.

For lack of a better way of putting it, after 27 years they have chased us out the door. We could say that they did us a favor as we did save some cash on what we feel is downright comparable, but it really is a shame.

L.

Macfamily:
If you come back and check you post in a little bit you will see 111guy tell you your full of it and they make the best cars and there is no way you could have a problm with the car or a dealer.

sj79:
I find it BS that they get no negative press at all for anything, but if an American car company has anything happen it’s all over.

Toyota has gotten $billion from many states in tax incentives, including Kentucky and Alabama where they’ve built plants. I think they got over a $1 billion from Alabama alone.

The only reason their pony car didnt get recalled is because THEY NEVER BUILT ONE CAUSE TOYOTAS ARE APPLIANCES
Nevermind that the LF-A has been delayed for probably coming up on 3 years, and may never even see the light of day at this point.
A plain white $20 dollar tin can toaster from wal-mart will crisp my bread golden brown just fine, but id rather have the stainless steel one with a digital timer, along with everyone else. Toyota’s a $20 dollar toaster.

yeah i said it

OK I will confess as well. My first Pontiac was disaster and I sold it after 15 months and swore not to set foot in Pontiac dealership again. My first Camry was also a disaster, although I drove it for 5 years, swearing not to drive one again. I am driving Pontiac Vibe GT: Toyota made, sold by Pontiac. Speaking of learning disabilities.
However, this article is inconsistent. If Toyota lost 7 billions in one year, how it could surpassed GM? GM received from Treasury 15 billions already and only since November. That in addition to moneys they lost from their own accounts (or they were penniless already?).

Borat:

The Vibe isnt “made” by Toyota. Its made by Americnas in California that work at a GM/Toyota owned plant.

Your math is all wrong. GM lost less money than Toyota in the last quarter. GM has received $15B to sustain operations but that isnt the same as a quarterly loss. GM never actually ran out of cash, they need like $10B in cash just to keep the doors open and pay people each week. GM used $10B in cash last quarter and some of that may have been government money but some might have been their reserves. Who really knows. Toyota is now forecasting a $8B loss next year which is highly suspect if they lost $7B in one quarter. They have been conservative (and wrong) in their estimates up until now and I think they are going it again. Several weeks back the “experts” were talking of a $3B loss.

Pauly:

not only have they received hundred of millions in grants and tax breaks, they are fortunate enough to be located in a country where healthcare is nationalized. Toyota also has ZERO legacy costs (or close to it) in the US because their oldest plant was built in the 80s. They will start paying pensions going forward though. They have huge structural advantages over GM and Ford and thats one reason why they have been able to make lots of money.

sj79, I totally agree that my car like millions of Toyotas in this country are made by Americans working at a plant financed and operated by Toyota. Also, those cars designed and planned into production by Americans. Just like Hondas and Hyundais.
I disagree on definition of GM running or not running out of money. Let’s get clear that without government bailout of at least 15 billions buck in the past 6 months there would be no entity called GM. Chapter 7 and following sale of leftovers would be completed by now.

Toyota only has three brands in the first place? That is the best you can come up with? They only have 3 brands? Im guessing you mean Toyota Lexus and Scion are the brands. Well Its more than one buddy and they havent cut them while GM has. Toyota also has Crown and have the majority of Daihatsu and Hino trucks.
You are still whining and you have no defense even in a posting about Toyota losing money! GM is **** ! The books prove it their current financial situation proves it and their recalls prove it
Its really too bad that you cant accept that
Toyotas and Hondas are better cars and you have to accept it

Even in US Toyota has 4 brands. Toyota, Lexus, Scion and Hino. In Japan there is much more: Blue Bird, Daihatsu in addition to all US brands and probably more, but I don’t know them all.

Some people have their heads up their asses and you cant have a conversation with them because they wont see the other side. Try not to waste the time and energy to reason with them.

I just read on autonews.com that toy-yo-DAA got $2B from there government last year. I guess American car makers are not the only ones.

Caddy-V,

I know I have seen his posts… but I think our family had a great run with Toyotas, had a few issues here and there but nothing like I had encountered with the big three.

I think your experience at any dealership varies greatly from one to the next. But I have to say I have never had to have a dash pulled out of a car twice and I sure have not had to return three times to have a program update applied to a Toyota before, although it is only my second drive by wire car.

I’m not an overly fussy person but that car has been in 8 times for various issues that range from annoyances to mechanical breakdowns. That’s more than any other Toyota I have ever owned and I have only had it three years.

L.

Triple you forgot Suburu……Your still having a Toyogasim though…..recalls actually prove the opposite. Toyota is now spending more on fixed operation costs than either Ford or GM per unit (recalls and warranty). You cannot deny your own argument of growth IE Suburu Daihatsu and Scion. All three of these brands are showing 50% plus sales declines. Pull legacy costs out of the equation and there is a whole different story. BTW those Japanese factories generate a fraction of capital that American owned factories do so get off that.

Who on here doesn’t think 1115 is actually a Toyota employee???

No I believe he works directly for satan

are those members of congress now asking GM to get their cost structure in line with Toyota’s?

Very little about this in main stream media. What is out there paint Toyota as a victim of the economic slump, unlike GM.

wbent
Has Toyota had to shut down any brands? Simple question once you answer it shut up
Thanks

Has Toyota shut down any brands…… no not yet…. they have bigger problems than that my friend…. sales down almost 50% you cannot blame that on just the economy……. a large cause of the slow down, yes… are they going down the toilet, hell no. Are they having a problem convincing people that they have a product worth spending extra cash for…. I think they are, my opinion and I’m entitled.

Fanboys…. flame away, doesn’t bother me in the least. I’ve given Toyota over $150,000 in business over the last 27 years…. saying they have let me down, think I’ve earned that…. that’s just the way it goes.

L.

triple ……Has Ford?

Sold off a few in interest of the core brand. I will debate you soon enough on the demise of Scion or Mercury. My money is on Scion to go first the parallel to Saturn is uncanny. Toyota’s fat is unsustainable and the day supply is exceeding both Ford and Chevrolet. Won ‘t be long before this “model” of industry swallows hard and returns to its core.

“Oh what a feeling….Toyogasm”

Your turn….

So when an American manufacturer offers buyouts its news but when Toyo does its burried in a story. Whats the deal LLN?

“To cut costs, Toyota has been slashing managerial pay and offering buyouts to thousands of American workers. It has reduced the number of temporary workers in Japan from 9,200 last year to 3,000.”

Toyota is good at hiding its dirty little secrets… from bad press to recalls to Chinese parts to lawsuits. They are the best.

Toyotas are good cars but the model lineup has become extremely boring over the last decade. I can’t help but wonder this is at least a contribution to their low sales this year. People are probably holding onto their old “practical” cars longer or just buying used to make ends meet. That’s the bread and butter right there. Then just add in a general opinion of Toyota as being the Japanese Buick whose cars are anything but fun or exciting.

Not talking about Ford but since you are dodging the question Ford had to sell off the brands they could never turn a profit on. It sickened me when i saw the same memory seat button in the new Jag that they have in the MKX
Wont be long is not fact and its not now so your argument is baseless. Scion will not go anywhere but based on the fact that mercury has less and less offerings year after year logically they will go first The Mariner Milan and Mountaineer are all For d twins
im not even sure if the Mountaineer is still around
So now you can answer the question and shut up Yes or no ??? Afraid to answer and shut up ? Dont talk out of line again stay in your place

wbent: Jaguar, Land Rover.

Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz should borrow the Toyota corporate jet, fly to Washington, and hand deliver the P&L statements for Toyota and GM to congress in a very public, open session. And then drop by the White House for a photo op with Obama.

LMAO…take that Toy Ota…sooner or later you are going down because of your own f*cking arrogance. Think you can take over the world with your sh*tty cars? Think again!

Payton, no, this administration will just fly Air Force One to them… low, through a city… without telling anyone in advance… causing panic… then claim it was a misunderstanding. Or something on that order. But either way, they’ll look good doing it.

Oh yeah, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA take that 111oda LOL HAHAHAHAHA LOL LOL HAHAHA. But really, dang that sucks…. HAHAHAHAH LOL LOL AHAH

Per J. D. Powers, Toyota makes cars about as well as Ford, so from a reliability standpoint I don’t buy the line that they’re crap. They make reliable, economical cars (and gas guzzling trucks, like everyone else).

However, their isn’t a single car in their current lineup that a car guy could love (with the possible exception of the Lexus IS). Ya think that 40 years from now collectors will be clamoring for Avalon’s and ES350’s?

Just found this tidbit, which can help explain some of Toyota’s losses.

“Toyota’s China sales in the first quarter of 2009 fell 17% from a year earlier to 125,743 vehicles, even as the total Chinese market, fueled by rising demand for small cars, grew 4% to 2.7 million vehicles. GM’s sales gained 17% to 363,317 vehicles, “

1115: Get rid of the 4 Runner? The Land Criuser? Or the FJ? That is really stupid because all those cars I said are legendary and those are the only Toyotas I would buy, (and the Supra, and RWD Celicas). Want that poser off-roader the Rav 4 to stay? The Highlander, a more family friendly Rav 4. The Venza? That car looks like it’s from a cartoon, and if you give it all the options it reaches 40k! I guess I can buy a BMW 135i for that money, or better, a Chevy Camaro SS.

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/nov2008/gb2008116_864302.htm

Kaizen- Funny it took 58 posts for someone to post an ACTUAL journalistic resource that gives an explaination of the reasons why Toyota’s profit is suffering.

Per J. D. Powers go to AutoWeek.com and see how a real publication on cars thinks of JD Powers
The only ToyotasSavesaab would buy are the4 Runner? The Land Criuser? Or the FJ?- Even more reason to cancel them

I’ve never really been partial to Toyota, but I still can’t say that Toyota should be terribly alarmed. Lots of you are reveling in the fact that it’s now Toyota’s time to pay the piper. I still saw any U.S. car maker would GLADLY trade places with Toyota. Look at what U.S. makers have to look forward to: bankruptcy and bailouts by the billions.

I’m not saying the U.S. car industry isn’t worth saving, but I read this article and thought, “eh.” No biggie here. When you are manned up to sell millions of units and the economy turns, and part of the market walks away, you are going to take a hit, pure and simple. If things don’t get better, Toyota will do what any for-profit business would do in the same situation: (1) make something more people want to buy; (2) reduce the costs of producing what you have; or (3) both.

By this same token, I’m hopeful for the U.S. car industry, because there are some exciting possibilities down the road (albeit with some casualties along the way). Still, this isn’t the great Toyota fall that so many of you want, this is a bump in the road, and Toyota is best situated, probably out of all car makers on the planet, to ride out the bumps for the smooth pavement ahead.

“Lots of you are reveling in the fact that it’s now Toyota’s time to pay the piper”-

For what ? What did Toyota (and Honda) do other than sell better cars than D3 ?
The bias I have is towards the more reliable product with the higher resale. Toyota and Honda have D3 beat no matter how you look at it

Amazing how religious people are about their brand of choice. Reliability is certainly important, but for me a modest advantage (if any) is not a good trade off for design, performance, and varous intangibles.

If GM came out with a verifiably reliable car, would you buy it? If Toyota sold a car as stirring as the Camaro would you buy it?

DetriotWatcher: I agree with you 100%. And yes, and yes.

DetroitWatcher- It seems they used to have a lot more interest in that than they do now, sadly.
(In re: to “If Toyota sold a car as stirring as the Camaro would you buy it?”

I think if the economy gets back on track, Toyota might take interest in that again, but it seems they don’t htink now is the time for making sporty cars, when people are all hyped up on the economy.

They are at least partially right…

A friend is the sales manager at a large New England Toyota dealer…. he has been telling me for the last 2 years that they have had an increasing tough time convincing customers that the additional cost of a Toyota is worth it. (It’s a multi brand dealer network, with other showrooms for other brands across town so he sees people making purchases at all dealerships… people look at the Toyota store and often buy at the other stores) He mentions that they have a couple of models (07 Camry 4 and 6 cylinder) along with two truck models that turned some customers off. But I think it may also have to do with the fact that cars priced lower are no longer requiring the sacrifice they once did.

Are sales down because of the economy or because of the economy and other reasons…. I say it’s not just the economy. Scion and Lexus are pretty well defined brands, I don’t think that they always stealing sales from Toyota or that they are pulling the company down.

A lot of this is only opinion, I just feel that Toyota took their eye off the ball regarding quality in some areas/models… they can and will fix that and recover and when they do I will consider them again.