wow.. if Toyota did sell that many cars then they have completed their mission to be #1… now if they can keep their quality on track to go with it then it would really mean something.. but strange that GM is forecasting this, and this early to boot.

Just when you think GM is a winner, they pull that rug out from under ya, adn show you how a second-rate company really does business. Sweet!
I was really pulling for GM too.
A little deception in the morning.
Nice!
DrFill

Wuling? Wasn’t he McGarrett’s nemesis in Hawaii Five-0?

Who’s your Daddy?
Who owns you baby?
Who can buy and sell your a$$?
Who da man, huh?
Who da man!
DrFill

DrFill–wow how old are u post again once you can see over the steering wheel.

Come on, Vette
First Supra, now this! How funny is this!
Cry me a river, baby!
LOL!
DrFill

Whats more important than being #1 is being a builder of quality and reliable cars. Something GM is not known for. Theres a reason why the corrola is built in over a dozen different countries.

come back to me when you get off of Otaka’s dick.

Fairlight
Your post was coming along just swimmingly too.
So close, yet so far.
About as precise as a GM accounting ledger.
Better luck next time.
DrFill

BTW – from my understanding, China prohibits non-foreign ownership so in theory all subsidiaries there are not foreign owned (meaning over 50%) so I suppose Buick in China should be excluded too.

Although I agree that being profitable is better than volume, the bragging rights associated with being #1 are probably very important to marketers. It would have been a great comeback story. Toyota’s supremacy had been forecast for a while, but here comes GM to beat back defeat with great new cars like the Sky and Solstice, lambda CUVs kicking ass, the Malibu winning awards, the ZR1 Vette to mop up European exotics, and others.

Would have been a great story. I agree with FairLight, there’s nothing creative here. GM decided to spin a story because they believed they needed it. Spun another way, a #2 spot wouldn’t have mattered.

Figures GM has been practicing deception since its inception

unlike you i got a life and have to be some were so i cant continue this conversation, but how does it feel living in your mom’s basement critiquing everyone on this site, while i got out and get paid.

Yes, but did GM remember to include GM Daewoo? You think about that!

Good for you Toyota, hopefully this is the last I’ll hear about this. Who knows how long it will remain this way though, as these 2 companies seem headed in different directions. I see GM taking it back eventually, but in the greater scheme of things does it really matter?

You go get paid
I’ll just got laid.
To each his own, baby!

Commizerate with the other garbage man at your local watering hole after work.
It’s alright to cry. Really!
Weep. Weep.
DrFill

At least GM didn’t gloat about being #1, because they would have looked like idiots. Unfortunately, this was supposed to be a marked turn in the media’s perception that GM is faltering. This will not help to remove that perception. Depending on how many China units will have to be excluded from Toyota’s total (which is probably far less than GM’s, since GM sells more overall in China), it looks like Toyota is indeed #1. Congrats, job well done.

Now taking bets on when Toyota will spank GM’s bottom again.
Here are the contest:
Tundra sales vs Sierra 2008
First out: GM Plug-In Hybrid or Toyota plug-in
The date when Vette will admit defeat to me, and Toyota, and stop flailing around these forums in a blind rage.
Place your bets!
DrFill

If you go to the GM China website, “Wuling” is just another GM brand like Buick or Cadillac.

and????wasnt there an article the other day about toyota not wanting to be # 1 because of the scrutiny, anyways i dont care if gm is # 10 there cars are great now and thats all that matters.
and dr. fill, youre a little baby all of the sudden what gives?

hey 1115 where have you been?

Your arguement is severely flawed.

Fairlight-

You can say all you want about Camry owners-at least Toyota won’t be making an advertisement that insults them for buying a previous generation Toyota car.

How about that Malibu ad saying “The car you can’t ignore” where the jogger runs into an older MALIBU?

What that advertisement tells me is that GM knows it built a complete P.O.S., and that anyone who DID buy that car was a total fool.

People who buy Camrys are people who want one of the best cars for the money, who don’t want any hassles, and who will be able to get some good money for their car when they decide to trade it in or sell it.

GM trying to cheat with numbers to cling on to it’s #1 title? Honestly, I don’t think it’s that big of deal being #1.

CTS
What do you mean?
I’m happy. I’ve been a Toyota fan for over 20 years.
Some of the GM fans have been running down Toyota every chance they get. Being as small as they could be.
Now it is my turn to celebrate. To bask if you will.

I am the vocal minority here, and this story absolutely burns GM fans. And makes GM look desperate and pathetic. This story says a lot about GM.

It’s a new day. It’s Toyota’s world, and GM is just a player in it.
I don’t hear you congratulating Toyota on it’s victory.
I complimented GM on it’s turnaround.
DrFill

Now that’s a desperate spin, even for you.
Will probably be GM’s next press release though, so good job with that.
Maybe you can get a check.
DrFill

dr.fill i was only talking about the weep weep wah wah cry cry, comments you were making.
i said they make good cars didnt i? did i take that from them……no. and i said i dont care who is # 1, thats a futile stupid arrogant argument.
and i have always given any manufacturer credit where credit is due.
also i am the only 1 person here who has always complemented toyota and gm for being good freinds for 20 years, i like the fact they build cars together and their friendly rivalry has given us better and better cars all around. so mabey you should read what you have been posting because it sounds like a little kid who just beat his big brother in a nintendo game, but i do guess a lot of you are still kids.

Taking out GMs minority stake in other companies would have GM loosing their biggest automaker title over a year ago.

It’s those damn Diebold voting machines, again!

Thank you, CTS.
Vette has been particluarly juvenile, dissing the Supra like it never existed, so I thought I’d spin the tables and see if he could play from behind, that’s all.

You know this hits home in another way.
Say what you want about the Japanese, but in Math and Science, they are for real. They don’t play. They can count. Cars. Cash. Awards. Americans don’t score very well against other nations in Math. Counting is not our strong suit.

What movie is this from:
“I say the future is ours…..if you…..can count!”

DrFill

Toyota with it’s cheap cars and cheap labor is able to fill this gap quickly.

Do yourself a favor, if you haven’t already.
If you want a glimpse into our future, watch the movie “Idiocracy” by Mike Judge, creator of Beavis & Butthead
Hauntingly prescient. Prophetic. It just won’t take as long as he predicts.
Fortunately, it’s only a movie.
For now.
But it we are closing in on it. Pretty scary, actually.
DrFill

ironhide i own a nissan, cry about what, the japaneese deserve what they have, they made good cars while the rest of the world brushed them off, now look at everybody from america to germany trying to play catch up.

dr.fill is it rentable? you have me very curious about it now, i will hit up blockbuster this weekend and check it out.

Somehow, I don’t think GM really cares all that much, else they’d be trying to INCREASE fleet sales rather than decreasing. Also, it was just a matter of time before Toyota passed them anyway, and they knew that. I’d be interested to see who’s sales Toyota includes in their totals as well. Will they include forklifts and such other things that they make? I also don’t think that the included sales mentioned is necessarily and error, either, as 34% ownership may be in fact the majority stake holder. There might be 66 other owners who own 1%, making GM the majority stakeholder. Will Toyota include Subaru & Daihatsu sales?? It would be interesting to see.

Another thing, I HOPE GM doesn’t care either, as none of the Top 5 mfg’s make much of the most interesting cars anyway, just ask BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari…

CTS,

Weak argument? Say what you want. Toyota’s ad of people destroying OTHER cars to have an excuse to buy a Toyota works-it doesn’t insult loyal customers.

GM should have chosen another car to make fun of-they chose their own. I would have never been stupid enough to buy a Malibu, but had I bought one, I would have been insulted by that ad.

By the way, if you do have a 1st generation CTS, it’s uglier than sin. Sorry to have to inform you.

GM should be making that Malibu commercial with the CTS. The old one is forgettable.

(As long as their into truth-in-advertising at the expense of previous customers)

CTS
It’s on Showtime, a lot now. You can rent it too.
Limited theatre release.
One of the best movies I’ve seen on the last 10 years.
Buy this one!
DrFill

Those Toyotathon commercials must be kicking ass.
Everybody here brings those up.
Those are pretty mediocre, for Toyota commercials.
Marketing is another Toyota strength.
DrFill

awww ray try harder looks are subjective, i really like mine in pearl/diamond and think the rest are ugly.
i hate when politicians attacke each other and i hate it when car companies attack each other. and i will always respect somebody who can make fun of themselves, i find that to be very mature. unlike your silly little attempt to berate my car, that is very immature. can you see what i am talking about?

CTS
Speaking of your car.
I like the sedan, even if it’s a little pudgy.
But the coupe, are you sold on that?
The hatchback design doesn’t fly with me. A little big to go the hatch style
Looks like a triangle.
Was expecting a more ETC-style rear-end, similar to the CTS actually.
What’s your take?
It’s coming this summer
DrFill

i can sort of agree with that ray, but without a middle class that can afford property isnt the competition from the rest of the real estate industry very fierce rite now? seriously some of theese upcoming kids are extremely clueless, they just think they can drop out of school and do what ever they want. im not even talking college, i cant i never went, i am just talking basic high school skills theese kids dont have.

dr fill, i am not opposed to the idea of a cts coupe, and if gm thinks they can just chop a car in half and keep all of its handling attributes they may be in dire trouble once the magazines start testing it. how can that be a good idea? the rear end is definately fugly in the pictures of the concept. so from my standpoint i am not completely sold on it yet, but the overall profile is not too bad looking.

Automotive News is the Bible.
Period.
Not some hometown paper.
You can’t slither away from the facts.
Nice try, doh.
DrFill

Ironhide,

I had a great college experience. Living away from home was fantastic. Fulfilling a lifelong dream of working with animals at Sea World while at school in San Diego was a blast.

My education, itself, DIDN’T go a long way, as you mentioned. I got a midlevel job for a financial company, got my series 7 and 66 licenses, AND SOON REALIZED I was spending each and everyday MAKING THE COMPANY lots of money, while I was SLOWLY moving up the pay scale. The problem is, the pay scale only goes so far.

It was only when I ventured out on my own that I realized the type of money I could make. I’m 28, self-employed, and I can guarantee that I will not have to work anymore by the age of 32. My little empire is not a house of cards, either. It’s not a pyramid scheme like AMWAY where I have to bug everyone I know, its not dependent upon any industry or upon appreciation-it’s just pure income. In other words, something I didn’t learn from my business degree.

Rich Dad, Poor Dad-I recommend it to anyone. It’s a simple, easy book to read and understand-and to me more valuable and more of an education than I ever got among all of my college courses combined.

ironhide of course its a cts chopped in half, what the heck do you thing the g35 coupe is a brand new car on a brand new chassis. here are the comments and the link, stop spinning you sound like al gore.

o i have never been oopposed to a cts coupe, i will reserve final judgement for a production model, i do agree with the rear end comments but if overall profile is there in the production model then i will most likely like it, there will be faster coupes out there for sure, but i dont care. also the whole tailfin light thing needs to get kicked to the curb thats just a useless nostalgic feature thats plain ugly. there are always pro`s and con`s.

Comment by CTS DRIVER, posted on January14 at 12:42 pm
.
o still even for me i may still like the g37 coupe better, its hard not to look at this car and not see a sharp edged infinity, especially press release photo # 3 look at the contour of the ass end.
Comment by CTS DRIVER, posted on January14 at 12:45 pm

http://www.leftlanenews.com/cadillac-cts-coupe.html,

The Enquirer?
Moving on….
DrFill

Why do people knock on the camry for? It sells b/c the majority of the drivers are >16 yrs old. Also because the majority have kids and need a family car. I don’t think you’ll take your wife and two kids in the back to the nurburgring or to your local track would you? The camry does what it’s supposed to. It’s roomy, practical, reliable (maybe not so much with the new generation), smooth, and fuel economical. Do I drive the Porsche? Yes. But that’s just me. One day I’ll have a family and money will have to be better spent (on my family and not on things I want). So it makes sense that Camrys and Accords sell like crazy. Even corollas and civics are practical.

Affliction-I couldn’t agree more.

LOL UR A HOMO!!11one

Jesus people grow up.

More good news for Toyota:
http://stage.caranddriver.com/comparisons/14473/ford-escape-v-honda-cr-v-v-hyundai-tucson-v-jeep-liberty-v-nissan-rogue-v-mitsubishi-outlander-v-saturn-vue-v-suzuki-grand-vitara-vtoyota-rav4.html
More good news Coming soon:
Sequioa vs Tahoe vs Expedition vs Armada vs Durango
DrFill

IRONHIDE, you re not impressed it all of the sudden it just popped up? There were roumors then BAM there it is.

holy crap thet chick on the ad banner up top is a hottie.

im a getting at the fact that with endless spy shots all over lln this just popped up. why cant you get it, i think you do get it and are just trying to be a dick.

actually ass i do prefer to support american companies if the product is better, but there must be a reason i drive a japaneese truck. go play nintendo.

Some of you guys are some real winners, any American that wants the home team to to fail needs a mental evaluation. The glory of Toyota taking over # 1 in sales loses it’s luster when they have also taken over the # 1 spot in recalls. I wont lose sleep regardless of who ends up being the best at inflating the numbers. If GM needs to get leaner to be meaner so be it.

BTW, I think the new CTS coupe is a sexy beast!

MHW
You’re missing the point.
This is the nth kick in the pants GM, and the others will get to stop screwin’ around.
Show some leadership, stop thinking short-term, and stop nickel and diming their customers.
The US has been lost to Toyota because American management is seriously inferior.
Not because GM can’t compete.
They won’t. There’s a difference.
Unions too. Not thinking long-term.
Ever here of Delayed Gratification?
Can Obama run every domestic automaker too?
DrFill

Ok while I actually have a life and had work and classes to attend I took a step out from this little debate here. However I’m going to step back in and only say this…

In some of the earlier posts that indicated that Toyota would take the #1 title in global sales I said and you can see my posts that Toyota probably would take the #1 spot. And they probably will although since Toyota hasn’t released their sales #’s no matter what anyone says for or against GM or Toyota until all the #’s come in no-one knows yet.

Secondly Toyota has taken a big step forward in the last two years to become #1 and while we should admire their effort for doing so because they do offer good quality vehicles, my father had an 84 celica that he still swears was one of his best cars and other people that I know that have their Toyota’s most like them. I’d own something from Toyota if they offered anything appealing however since they no longer offer a Supra, Celica or MR2 I have no interest in any of their products.

But being #1 isn’t everything. While Toyota has the #1 spot and while they have sold more vehicles their recall rates have gone through the roof and they have recalled more vehicles in the 2007 Calendar year then any of the other automotive companies, so I hope that Toyota can actually fix this because if they don’t then they’ll have the reputation that GM has had for years to come.

Also watch how fast the media will turn on Toyota. Once they have the #1 Title while they keep announcing recalls or cough.. “WARRANTY Extensions”… it won’t get better for Toyota.

When Toyota releases their official sales that say by a credible third source then I will say Congratulations to Toyota. And also bring back the Supra, Celica and MR2… Thank you.

DrFill, my point was simple, I support the home team. I’m sure if Obama asked real nice Oprah would buy the domestic auto industry for him. But would anyone really buy from a company called Oprabama Motors???

I think Automotive News are the ones that are trying to get creative here in order to somehow give the title to Toyota when it doesn’t truly belong to them.

Think about this: Last year, GM sold over 9 million vehicles as well. That year, Wuling sales were also included in there (as they should be) as Wuling is all part of GM’s Chinese operation. The alliance is knowk as SGMW or SAIC-GM-Wuling. Just like GM included cars made in China by SAIC, they are allowed to include Wuling. Remember that this is China we are talking about. GM is not allowed to fully own Wuling – the Chinese commies won’t allow that. Lastly, remember that virtually all automakers (including Toyoda im pretty sure) uses a joint-partnership type of deal in order to import their cars to China. If they don’t, imported cars in China are taxed at a rate of 100% in China. Look at the SGMW website….. GM is all over it. Wuling can be counted.

http://www.sgmw.com.cn/english/company/about.jsp?catid=113

If GM let Aztec and Cim-moron get to market, and actually have the stones to ask to be paid for it, anything is possible.
GM is obviously quite desperate for this title.
Toyota is in no rush, and they’d rather get the numbers right.
Toyota really prefers playing the underdog.
Toyota is about getting paid.
Nobody does it better.
DrFill

I wouldn’t MHW…

100th comment!

Not often anyone can say that!

CTS – you can catch a bit on jewtube …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqa4LpdtOD8

A lot of the people on this board would be served well by being able to see both sides of the coin. A lot of you are pro-GM/US, and some of you are pro-Toyota/Japan. And it’s absolute for the most part. Yet you rationalize your thoughts based on your sole opinion intertwined with a fact or two in an attempt to add credibility.

Even though I don’t intend to speak for them, I work for Toyota in Torrance. I can’t tell you how much I hate to see people wishing for the demise of US automakers. If GM, Ford or Chrysler fails, we all fail, including Toyota. Especially in a recession. One manufacturer going out of business or severely diminished will turn a recession into a depression. That effect would be wide-spread, to an extent you could not imagine.

Likewise with Toyota, to those who seek Toyota’s demise, it will have the same effect. Toyota directly employs over 32,000 people in the US alone. Add dealers, suppliers, and business that rely on employees of the dealers or suppliers and you have millions of people affected by how Toyota performs. And these are AMERICANS, not Japanese. 32,000 AMERICANS!!! (BTW, I’m not Asian as someone assumed a couple weeks ago).

I’d like to see Toyota to win, but we thrive off of competition and trying to do better than yesterday. It doesn’t always happen, but it is Toyota’s goal.

As far as Toyota’s quality concerns and GM resurgence in the US, no one outside of the people who follow the auto industry knows about it. The frankly don’t care. They are worrying about their mortgage or 401K plan. If you ask the normal middle age person what they think about Toyota, and they’ll say it is a quality car. That perception has been built for several decades and will not be easily broken by spats of bad news. It has the potential though. Likewise, GM’s perception of poorly made vehicles is HARD to get rid of. The ONLY way for GM to become relevant to mainstream America again is if they continue this level and improve upon it for the next decade or longer.

comparing the GMC sierra’s sales to a tundras sales is downright dumb toyota only has 3 brands in america one sells a truck i gurrentee gm’s 1500 series trucks out sold toyota i am also sure that toyota probably placed 4th for total trucks solid this year maybe third

Commodore
Who in the blue hell are you? Are you one of the guys who held a guitar while Lionel Richie sang?
Toyota makes and owns 100% of Scion, so I don’t see your point there.
I fell asleep during the rest of the blather….
DrFill

441
You bring up an interesting point, even though you missed it yourself
The Sierra did outsell Tundra by 10k or so in 2007.
How many of those were HD models?
Did Sierra 1500 actually beat Tundra?
Exactly!
DrFill

One more Ting
Toyota is off to a fast start for 2008!
Tundra: Motor Trend Truck of the Year.
#1 in sales Worldwide (If we don’t use the funny numbers GM does).
Toyota Rav4 wins Car and Driver comparison.
Sweet!
DrFill

Toyota USA’s profits do not go back to the Japanese. You lack the understanding of how Toyota operates in the US. Toyota Motor Sales, USA (TMS) is a distributor, just like Toyota Europe, Mexico or Canada. Toyota Motor Corp (TMC) sells TMS cars that they manufacture, whether that is in a US plant or Japanese plant…wherever. That’s where TMC and the Toyoda family get their profits from. TMS takes the risk, purchases the cars from TMC and tries to wholesale the cars to their dealer network. That’s where TMS gets their profit to pay TMS employees and used for marketing/incentives. The profits stay in the US; they have to.

We’ll use Ford as a counter-example:

This is the exact same as Ford (whatever is left of it) except the profits automatically go to the Ford family in the end. Ford, the manufacturer, allocates their cars to the US sales arm. They sell the cars to the dealer and make their profit. The profits from the sale go to the Ford family, also they pay Ford employees and are used for marketing/incentives.

So there are two different “profits” you are talking about. If you are upset that TMS is buying cars from TMC and TMC/Toyoda family is profiting, then you should be just as mad that the Ford family is profiting off of Ford cars. You make it seem as if the Ford family is dispersing their profits to the American public and that somehow by buying American brand products that you and the entire United States benefits. Wrong! That only happens if you own stock in the company and Ford is making a profit to offer a dividend.

Kaizen – wrong. These are Toyota’s holdings:

Holdings

Toyota reports on its consolidated financial statements 540 consolidated subsidiaries and 226 affiliates.

* Toyota Motor North America (100% – 2004)
* Toyota Tsusho – Trading company for the Toyota Group
* Toyota Canada Inc. owned via Toyota Motor North America
* Daihatsu Motor Company (51.2% – March 31, 2006)
* Hino Motors (50.1% – March 31, 2006)
* DENSO (24.74% – September 30, 2006)
* Toyota Industries (23.51% – March 31, 2006
* Aisin Seiki Co. (23.0% – September 30, 2006)
* Fuji Heavy Industries (8.69% – September 30, 2006)
* Isuzu Motors (5.9% – November 10, 2006)
* PT Toyota Astra Motor (49% – 2003)
* PT Toyota Motor Manufacturing Indonesia (95% – 2003)

As you can see, Toy Motor North America is one of them. Toy Motor NA in turn fully owns Toyota Motor Sales, USA Inc. therefore that is a wholly owned subsidiary of Toyota (headquartered in Japan). Toy Motor Sales is NOT a US corporation or in any way US owned. It certainly contributes to our economy (in the form of jobs mostly, but then again, every Asian car manufacturing job gained is offset by domestic car jobs lost – see Ford cutting another 13000 jobs article). All profits made by TMS go back to Toyota City, Japan where they are reinvested throughout the world but mostly benefit the Jap economy.

Just buy Toyota stocks, then some of the profits will go to you.

HaHa, Nice,read em and weep.

Commodore, nothing you listed contradicts what I posted. I never stated or suggested that TMS is a US owned company. TMC’s profits in the US are derived by TMS/TMNA purchasing the car. TMS’ profit is theoretically TMC’s and is reflected on TMC’s financial statement, however TMS still has to account for their own profit targets. So the money that TMC originally forecasted as being available could change based on additional marketing, staffing, incentives like on Tundra, etc. Conversely, if TMC one day decided to close shop in North America, all of the money TMS/TMNA has would be taken away back to Japan.

I guess you could phrase it this way: “All profits from TMS have the POTENTIAL to go back to TMC, but they have substantial obligations to maintain at TMS before going to TMC.”

And to speak to every Asian auto job gained is an American auto job lost: There probably would have never been a job lost if Ford/GM/Chrysler actually managed their demand, workforce levels and continued to make relevant products. Domestics employed too many people with too many benefits who produced vehicles a decreasing population actually desired. The job cuts at Ford/GM/Chrysler are an attempt to right-size, therefore it’s not a one-for-one exchange.

***The only reason why I started on the topic is because I think it is ridiculous to be upset that the money is going to Japan.*** The stakeholders (mainly banks), Toyoda family and other investors are not offering the Japanese population their profits. Only a few rich people in Japan. Likewise, the stakeholder (mainly banks), Ford family and other investors are not offering the American population their profits. Only a few rich people in America.

Commodore
Besides bringing the conversation into the guttar, the other thing you are good for is proving my points.
If you bought stock,let’s say you bought 2% of all Microsoft stock last year, and Microsoft sold a billion computers last year, do you get credit for selling a billion computers?
Or does Bill gates the credit, and you get a cut of the profit?
Ok.
So GM is done.
DrFill

Microsoft sells computers?

ironhide today is a new day, always start fresh everyday, never carry yesterdays baggage with you. just a little tip for a long healthy happy life. by the way good morning.

Are you saying I have a big thick dick? Thanks!

I have the thickest meat-flute of them all. Fat as a cow

Toyota is too afraid to split its sales figures in the US by brand, which would reveal that Scion sales are down (possibly by choice) and more imporatantly, that the Toyota brand is #2 in the US for 2007, second to Chevy.

I’m hung like a baby myself… 17 1/2 inches, 8 lb, 7 oz.

Is there anyway I can block having to read certain members’ posts here? I just hate having to scan over the posts of children calling eachother names to get through to the few intelligent comments here.

Anyway, I think that GM will actually be a bit RELIEVED to no longer be the number 1 automaker. They have been focusing of improving their product for some time now and I applaud them for it. If I were to purchase an American car tomorrow, it most certainally would not be a vehicle made by Ford Motor Co. or Chrysler, it’d be from GM. However, I’m still not to the point where I would feel comfortable purchasing a brand new GM-anything. As much as I really like the new CTS, I wouldn’t buy one brand new.

You guys who are still defending GM must really like wasting your money. If you still buy vehicles from the so called Big 3, you are getting kicked in the groin. Try catching up with technology, and do a little bit of research on the Internet. EVERYONE… that includes Motor Trend, Car and Driver, and Popular Mechanics, say that American car’s are crap. Actually, all you have to do is talk to someone who has an American vehicle and ask them how long they spend fixing the damn thing. Or, how about going for a drive and counting how many American vehicles there are dead on the side of the road VS the Japanese vehicles. If you do find one Japanese vehicle (doubtful) take a note of how old it is compared to the very young Chev, Ford, GM, and Dodge’s you find. Oh, and, if you are going to post on this board or any board for that matter, learn how to spell and type. There seems to be a direct correlation between those that buy American cars and those that can’t use proper grammar.

Ray: “GM should have chosen another car to make fun of.”

Yep

Who cares who the top seller is?

187out: Good point.

Why is everbody talking about pecker size? Who cares?