Comments on: Toyota tops 1 million U.S. hybrid sales

By: Kaizen

Kaizen — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:51:30 +0000

Convincing people that diesel is better option requires money. Money to advertise, add incentives to switch and reinvest into improving the product. All the other manufacturers have let Honda and Toyota use their resources to make hybrid technology mainstream and popular. Now everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon. It would take a prolonged and concerted effort over the next decade for a manufacturer to really push diesels as a better alternative. The problem with this is that everyone knows that oil is a finite resource. Therefore, diesels are not the long term answer. They’re a stop loss, with no applicable technology toward energy independence. Hybrid technology is paving the way towards all-electric vehicles, high capacity batteries and viable hydrogen technology. Diesels had their chance. the public couldn’t justify their benefits back in the 80/90s and now will only be viable in some type of hybrid form.

By: DrFill

DrFill — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 03:32:08 +0000

You do know that efficiency test, as well as gallon size, is vastly different between here and there
Don’t you?
Whatever can get high EPA here, is here, and it’s a very short list

Having driven them all, the hybrids, many times, it is true that they aren’t meant to be driven, at least the Prius and Camry Hybrid, as they drive like electric cars.

The Highlander Hybrid is a real treat to drive, and I highly recommend a test drive. It is so choice!
Smooth efficient power!
DrFill

By: Borat

Borat — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:56:57 +0000

Actually most of diesels in Europe do that. Mini with Toyota sourced diesel is better then 50 mpg and blast to drive. I am not belittling mileage, I am stating that old Prius (both very old and current that is getting old) are not pleasure to drive, but they are frugal. And there is a segment that must be seen in “green” machine, I will not dispute that. The rest is questionable. Honestly, I haven’t driven hybrid Camry or Highlander, but either one was not high on my list with regular motors, so hybrid could not help either. Different strokes…….

By: DrFill

DrFill — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:33:08 +0000

50MPG ain’t hype my friend
Find me a diesel that will do that
DrFill

By: beatusmongous

beatusmongous — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:40:34 +0000

We need more KY Jelly for GM so they can rape NMOFGM again tonight.

By: Borat

Borat — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:35:53 +0000

Dr.Fill,
The fact that some of us like diesels better then hybrids just makes a lovely technological conversation. I am not Toyota hater (I drove one in disguise), but diesels make more sense. Maybe not for politicians and masses in general, but from pure engineering point of view.
The reason diesel egine fail to entice US public can be attributed to couple of reasons:

1. failed effort on part of domestic industry to build diesel engine domestically and bad press surrounding it
2. cheap gas
3. horrible diesel fuel
4. political ties of oil industry that prevented fuel requirements to match of West Europe

You are right that Toyota would bring diesel here if it could, but piss poor quality of our fuel would not allow it. However, from driver perspective driving RAV-4 with diesel and one without, there is a HUGE disadvantage for those of us who love to drive of not having diesels. And I fail to see advantage of hybrid, except hype and profit for salesman, when gas is expensive (which it will be again).

By: HoosierHero

HoosierHero — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:11:38 +0000

You haven’t been laid off yet NMOFGM?? Surprising…

By: Need more oil for GM

Need more oil for GM — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:28:10 +0000

And yet only 1/16 of them are still running. “Hype”rids are just like any other POS Toyota product, cheap, crappy, unreliable garbage. If you need a hybrid, the ones that GM offers are much morereliable and cheaper too. GM is way ahead of Toyota as well, look at the Tahoe and Escalade hybrids, something that sh1tty little Toyota doesn’t have the ability or the talents to copy. They just hang their hats on the Peeous and call themselves leaders. Everyone knows Toyota is just a sham. Everyone would rather drive a GM vehicle.

Buy American. Buy GM

By: HoosierHero

HoosierHero — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:20:21 +0000

I agree with DrFill. Diesels has their chance and people didn’t like them. They smelled horrible and got a bad rap. Even with the clean diesels, I still think people picture the old technology. Hybrids/Electrics are the future and I’m glad to see the them evolve. You might think they are crappy now, but can you imagine driving a Model T in the early 1900’s? People in the 50’s were laughing at that technology. It’s just a matter of time. Give them another 10-20 years and you’ll have some great stuff! HOPEFULLY the algae technology will be feasible…

By: DrFill

DrFill — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 03:44:53 +0000

Borat
Dude, turn around and read these posts!
Everyone has a snide remark, or think diesel is better
And you only underscore my point
If Toyota sells diesels everywhere, and can save a ton on R&D by bringing proven product over here, instead of making a Hybrid market, virtually from scratch, why didn’t they do it?

If diesel was so great, they would sell more than 5000 here and there, and Toyota would move every diesel in here they could
If Toyota could save a plum nickel by using an old engine over a new engine, they’d do it in a New York minute

Toyota should be applauded for their innovation, leadership, and guts.
Everyone here can’t wait to throw stones at Toyota.
But they ignore one simple fact
Toyota is right!
Nothing more. Nothing less

If you want diesels to be the next big thing, run to VW or Mercedes and get them over the more efficient hybrids.
Show a little interest
Thank you.

BTW I’ve SOLD Priuses for Toyota, so I know more than anyone here about market comparisons and the value inherent inside one.
DrFill

By: Borat

Borat — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 01:22:32 +0000

DrFill, I hate to say it, but you sound more and more like Toyota version of NMOGM. There is no hate here. We are just discussing technology. FYI, Toyota makes great diesels for Europe. I have news for you: 75% of all Toyotas in Europe are diesel powered. Also 100% of Mini diesels are Toyota powered. So you can get off of Toyota painted soap box, because most of the time you did make sense and had some humor. Unless those recalls got you down .
As far as diesels in US: Jeep sold all 5000 CRD Liberties before they got out of the factory and all of them at list price (imagine for Jeep?). Benzes peddle diesels regularly and so does VW and the residual is much better on a used one (heard of KBB or Edmunds? check it out for yourself don’t trust me). I would much rather drive smallish sedan/hatch with 1.6 L diesel then concoction of technology under the hood tied to a CVT. Have you driven Prius? Sucks just like old Insight I drove, minus third pedal, which did make things a bit more tolerable. Those are appliance, not cars worthy of LLN, and then there is Audi powered by diesel – and it is LLN worthy.

By: DrFill

DrFill — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 00:04:06 +0000

Calm down on the Hater-ade!
Jeez
Diesels have had their chance, and have not made it to the US in large numbers here due to not passing stricter US emissions regulations (California has some of the toughest rules on Earth), and they don’t provide the level of performance and efficiency (Look up tests of the Mercedes BlueTec vs RX400h, for example)

If diesels were so great, where are the products? Where are the buyers?
Jeep, VW, Mercedes have all tried, but the Prius stays ahead of all of them on price and efficiency
In every battle there is a winner and a loser
Toyota has won this contest
Whether you like it, or you don’t like it, learn to love it, because it’s the best thing going today
WOOOOOOOO!

DrFill

By: Mutant@DCX

Mutant@DCX — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:15:49 +0000

Q. How long does it take 1 milion lemmings to leap?
A. Ten years apparently

By: ricky_b

ricky_b — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 21:09:27 +0000

Image some of the newer TDI technology from Europe MATED to a hybrid. Can you image the mileage from that combo?

By: bolex

bolex — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:53:30 +0000

eh..definitely a successful niche (for the time being) since it’s more about making a statement than anything else. i’ll take regular gas engine anyday.

By: TornadoGTI

TornadoGTI — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:19:40 +0000

Agree with Borat. I would take TDi over hybrid. I do not like diesel either but if I had to chose. TDi gets better performance for the cost (torque monsters) and acheives better gas mileage.
Plus, they look like normal cars. It seems like hybrid cars have to let the world know they are hybrid. Case in point, besides the obvious Prius, are GMs vehicels. Like the Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade hybrids and the Vue hybrid. They have these HUG gaudy HYBRID stickers all over the side panels and windshield. I mean, come on. This technology has been around for almost a decade in civilian vehicles . i dont recall seeing NAVAGATION stickers on cars when that came out, or DIESEL stickers for that. Just a discrete TDi badge on a NORMAL looking car.

By: Borat

Borat — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:03:28 +0000

I would call it an achievement if I liked hybrids. The truth is, that diesel can be more efficient, and actually is more efficient in European version. Diesel pollutes as little as hybrid (or about the same, but a “better” pollution gas). Diesel engine is cheaper then hybrid. Even gasoline engine of hybrid is as expensive as diesel, it is not your old gasoline engine; it is 5 cycle engine.

By: TornadoGTI

TornadoGTI — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:43:15 +0000

Who cares. I dont know about the rest of you, but hybrids still have a ways to come to impress me. The ONLY one I even remotely like is the Lexus GS450H and maybe the LS600H, though I would never pay $106k for a Lexus. For that price I could get an S8, S550, or almost a Quattroporte, and steal gas from the hybrids of the world. But do so in a very fast, and beautiful manner.

Anyways, the rest are just silly. A Prius is one of the worst cars as far as anyone who likes cars is concerned. Slow, ugly, plasticy, and expensive for what you get…nothing. It is designed for people who don’t like cars but need a car. I don’t get it. Tesla doesn’t count because it is all electric, not hybrid.

Anyways, just my $.02