does the fake plastic hood scoop on the tundra have anything to do with this increase in sales?

Well no xxxx..Toyota wanted 200,000 sales and they are sure as hell gonna get them. Which is exactly why they are giving away $3-4k rebates, so they can call it a success. I can’t imagine why anyone would buy this – its just a supersized angry-Japanese looking last-gen Tundra with a big gas-guzzling engine. And how much expertise does Toy have in building pick-ups compared to Ford, and GM, and even Dodge?

Great so that means I have to look at 200,000 ugly ass trucks on the freeway…

Have a look at this video. Shows how tough the Toyota is…

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EWjTbiYo3×0&mode=related&search=

Isn’t this the same story they ran two days ago?
I think it looks OK, but every other full-sizre truck on the market is better

I’ll be driving one Friday.
For Work

Knowing Toyota they will somehow “sell” 200,000 Turdras… then again, if they give the last 20,000 away will they still count as a sale?

oh god this damn argument again, have fun guys.

AMGoff, yes of course. Anything to meet their sales goals so next year they can run ads for “the best selling new pickup” or whatever

That is one sweet “angry-Japanese looking” truck. Wait-a-tick, there’ll be 200,000 of them by years end. sweet!

No Rompn4x’ that’s 200,000 trucks on the side of the freeway! I’m just kidding. I have nothing against Toyota, especially if it means better American trucks.

Oh boy, the debate rages on… I would hardly call offering rebates and incentives “giving them away”. They’re still making stupid money in the States… and the rest of the world for that matter. As a business, which it is, Toyota’s a huge success. That said, I can’t think of a single new Toyota vehicle that I actually like. Hopefully, the LF-A will change that. I miss the Supra.

me, you’re right. the better people think toyotas are, the better domestic cars will get

jamaican dude. The last supra was the closet touota ever got to selling a great car in the u.s. The jdm soarer was also a nice one.

Holy shiz bcjohnso99, that is one hilarious video! That’s pretty sad, considering the Toyota is newer than any of the competitors (is that a new, or old Chevrolet Silverado? Looks like the new one). “It actually dug right back into the cab itself”!

How much are they going to increase rebates/incentives now? They’re already sky high…

To all those saying Toyota is giving them away: Toyota is making a good profit on every car so they arent giving anything away. Its not like the Big3 that looses money on every car it sells. The Big3, especially Chrysler right now, is not only giving the cars away but also paying money to have the privilege to produce cars for their customers.

Dont hate Toyota just because they know how and when to use rebates to increase sales and profits. The Big3 should be taking notes on how a profitable business is run.

jackjimturkey:

I agree. But not just the Soarer. The V300 Aristo, (Same as the Lexus GS400, but with the Supra’s 2JZ-GTE under the hood) was also a beast. I owned one briefly and it made over 550whp on the stock motor. Heavy though.

ok so when i am following a toyota through a street full of speed bumps at an unsafe speed i should not tailgate it, is that what the video is saying? tools may be flung like a monkey flings poo.

I’ve said it before, but Toyota is just buying future businesses. If the next generation Tundra does debut in only a few years (like the GM sales trainers were spreading rumors about), Toyota may not have to pay customers to buy the trucks.

V300 Aristo? I’ve gotta check it out. JDM is way better than the crap they sell here.

With four great and proven American trucks available, why would any American buy an American wanna-be truck?

1. xxxxing ugly.
2. No reliability.
3. Weak structure.

So, what again DOES this POS so-called pick-up truck offer? Absolutely NOTHING!

Driven, we are not hating Toy at all like a lot of you hate domestics. And Toyota does NOT make profit on its new Tundra. The rebates are so high that they are about breaking even. They have a sales goal, and they are gonna meet it. Toy makes enough profit on the rest of its vehicles that its okay to have 1, the tundra, not make any money. After all, some people just want the best deal and that’s why many of them get Toy Tundras. Toy is smart though in the fact that selling their new Tundra, even at dirt cheap prices will build up a customer base and some loyalty just like the domestics have done in the past century with their trucks.

Commodore, I dont hate domestics. I dislike the UAW contracts, poor management and outdated/sometimes ugly designs. But I think the Big3 has potential to be what it used to be under new management. I equally dislike some euro & asian designs. At least they dont make foolish business decisions year after year like the Big3 management.

I’d like to see the proof Toyota isnt making a profit on the Tundra, as you claim. Toyota has lower costs giving them room for discounts while still making a profit.

I think Toyotas incentives on their trucks is very shrewd. The higher-priced, top model Tundras are all selling very well, outstripping supply (so says Edmunds). The higher-priced models have larger profit margins to absorb the biggest of incentives. With an industry average profit of $6k-10k per truck this is a great way for Toyota to move into the US truck market. All those new customers and each truck is still making a profit.

From Edmunds, the total cost of incentives in June 07
Dodge Ram Pickup 1500 $6,831
Toyota Tundra $5,083
Ford F-150 $4,272
GMC Sierra 1500 $3,644
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 $3,604
Nissan Titan $3,363

CTS DRIVER… The video is only to magnify the weak structure, let alone a truck that’s made to carry large loads and tow trailers.

And like I’ve mentioned before, they sure do have alot of pending recalls.

Personally I don’t see how they look good. They look alot “bigger” than the Chevrolet Silverado and Ford F-150, but it reminds me of a Dodge Ram without the lowered wheel wells, and aggressive headlights. While the Japanese are going for more aggressive designs, American designers seem to be going for more conservative designs.

Why does the xxxxING Tundra always generate record levels of comments? This is idiotic. Who gives a xxxxING xxxx!?!??!?

Another eloquent post. Do you realize your comment complaining about the level of comments just added to the count?

“Toyota anticipates that its marketing and incentive plan for the rest of the year should result in enough sales to clear 200,000.” Sounds a lot like the American companies in the beginnings of their declines.

I think Toyota is trying to take on too much too fast. It seems as though they beleive that they have an indestructible reputation. If they are attracting people to their vehicles through incentives (i.e., coupons) and marketing (i.e., propoganda), it will come back to haunt them. One example would be: some persuaded-Tundra owner’s will eventually talk with people that bought the competitors’ vehicles and/or read the unflattering reviews and start to question or regret their decision. GM was ahead of Toyota for years in numbers, not because of superior products; they were offering huge incentives and selling entire fleets to rental companies. We know the resulting drop in quality and reputation; which is now rapidly improving but at the cost of volume.

Basiically, i beleive that Toyota got to where it was because people generally bought their cars out of a firm conviction that they were buying the best product.

Driven, people have laid out (many time on this site) the main reasons the import brands can turn a profit easier than the domestics. And, profit does not direclty correlate to sales. Get ahead of the curve and recognize the trends playing out in front of us.

Not a bad first year sales figure, you guys can get deep about it, but that’s the truth.

LamboZ – no it isn’t a bad figure, but I don’t think it reflects demand for the Tundra – it reflects the amount of INCENTIVES place ON the turda. Which is sadly how domestics have been moving their cars for a while. That, and fleet sales.

Whoever said the edmunds comment – there was an article (pickuptrucks.com or something not sure) that said that most people are trading in an old tundra for the new one, whereas chevy/gmc are getting old titans and Toy SUVs in addition to last gen silverado/sierras.

I agree; too many comments on a dumb subject.
Will Toy sell 200,000 tundras: Yes. How?? Incentives
Who makes a better truck? Domestics, they’ve been doin it for decades (oh, and look at that video that someone posted earlier). Will Toyota rule the world? No

i was just being a smart ass jay, the video does show a lot actually, i spend a lot of time hauling my toys through rough ass dirt roads and this is actually very interesting to watch, i do love the titan commercial with the dirtbikes in the bed being flipped around like a circus acrobat.
if someone posted that i would have a crack about next time i do a double backflip in a pickup…. yada yada yada.
anyways the link was pretty cool, i got a good kick out of it.

NICE TRUCK

If this truck was produced by anyone but Toyota (even GM, Ford, Dodge and Nissan), it wouldn’t be getting nearly as much press. That Toyota badge makes all of us go crazy.

comnmodore: i think incentives create demand that wasn’t there. i’m driving the Tundra today, for work.

jack, hope you have a tow truck following you. You’ll need it.

Obviously a lot of people must not understand how incentives work. The manufacturers throw on incentives when they are not receiving enough orders to keep their plants running smoothly. Yes manufacturers may want you to believe that they are to gain sales but what they are mainly concerned with is how many orders they are getting. It has nothing to do with Toyota being smart to gain sales from the big 3 and anybody who buys that argument has been mislead. If Toyata could get away without the big incentives they would. Remember the Ford F-150 back in 2004 sold for almost a whole model year with very little incentives…now that was a truck!! Of course its a few years old now and needs a little help in the tough truck market that’s understandable. But throwing huge incentives on a brand new pickup like this is unheard of and people think that its some kind of genius plan by Toyota to gain sales….I don’t buy it. Plain and simple Toyota threw on the incentives because their inventories were piling up and needed to clear out the slower moving units such as the regular and extended cab models. The Max Cab is the only bodystyle that seems to be in pretty decent demand right now. But that’s just my opinon.

toyota can afford to lose money on theese and flood the market, prices speak for themselves, not everybody uses a truck to 1oo% of its potential, but most people sure do like a great deal.

True, I guess they can afford to do this so why not. Didn’t really think of it that way. they wanted to sell 200,000 so I guess they are hitting their goals. Next year they will probably have a better idea of how to set up their product mix with more Max Cab’s and less Reg cabs. Sounds like their biggest problem is they produced way too many Reg Cabs.

GM sales: A CHEVY tow truck!

jackjimturkey – yes, incentives create demand but as tppp explained, in this case toyota is using incentives to create demand for their tundra because there wasnt much demand without the incentives.

jack u need a tow trick with u rofl that pos will self destruct

My point was simply that in the past you never really heard the words “incentives and marketing” from Toyota (much less to meet the goal for their most important vehicle launch ever). Some of their products are still pretty good but I feel they have veered off course from what made them desirable. Meanwhile, companies like the domestics are regrouping and prioritizing things like quality, design and reputation. It would seem best for Toyota to try to stabilize itself before pressing forward.

Commodore: It stands to reason that demand would have to be created, if it did nopt exist.

Did’t get the Tundra, got a Kia Spectra. Not bad, for what it’s supposed to be. The tundra will be this weeik.

update this!!!!!!

jack u need a tow trick with u rofl that pos will self destruct
.

From Edmunds, the total cost of incentives in July 07:
Dodge Ram Pickup 1500 .. $6,739 1% decrease over June 07
Nissan Titan ……….. $4,835 30% increase over June 07
Toyota Tundra ………. $4,625 10% decrease over June 07
Chevrolet Silverado 1500 $3,995 10% increase over June 07
GMC Sierra 1500 …….. $3,883 6% increase over June 07
Ford F-150 …………. $3,574 20% decrease over June 07

The GM trucks don’t need incentives to sell. That number is bogus. People beg us and pay top dollar just to get into a Silverado. They’ll pay what ever markup we ask just to get out of their current POS non-GM car or truck.

Why was this updated?? It just says that Toy KNOWS that it will hit it’s 200,000 target. Awesome – so its no longer a prediction? Toy (and most automakers) would never predict a sales number that they can’t meet, especially Toy. And look at the incentives! – this is a brand NEW truck and it STILL needs 4-5 grand in incentives to be moved (and that’s just on average. I know a guy who lives by my cousin’s house that got a tundra for about 7 grand off (6,850) which is the reason he bought it. And the Ford has been on the market for years now and is STILL the lowest in incentives. So what did we add to this article to update it besides the obvious – Toyota made sure that they can sell 200,000 trucks with commercials (Toy definitely knows how to advertise though) and massive incentives and thru any other means necessary so that they can meet their “prediction”.

GMCsyclone, in your past two posts you make reference to GMs problems in the past and claim Toyota is bound for the same fate. Just because Toyota is growing doesnt mean it will make the same mistakes GM made in the past. Toyota has grown to this point and hasnt slipped in reliability ratings so far (edmunds, CR and JDP). Just because GM couldn’t hold it together doesnt mean any other company will have the same problems.

GM has a labor force whose high school graduates make an average of $145k/yr, overpaid execs and horrible contracts with their suppliers. Those overpaid workers started making poor quality cars and GM couldn’t recover. These are all problems GM had that brought them to where they are today. There is no correlation to Toyota as they have some of the best supplier contracts in the industry, an acceptable pay program for US employees and execs whose income is tied more closely to profits. Toyotas employees get incentives for quality. GMs UAW contracts make sure workers get paid no matter what comes off the line. Thankfully GM has gotten the workers to produce quality so things are improving. Toyota has yet to slip so I don’t see where they need to stabilize before continuing to grow.

Commodore, LLN added the update to edmunds incentive report. Many of the posts claimed Toyotas sales are due to incentives. LLN added the Edmunds report that Toyotas incentives are lower than originally reported, down from last month. And with the lower incentives Toyota still had a record selling month for the truck.

The rest of the story remained the same.

driven: when was the last time you drove a GM car? “poor quality?”

I don’t get it

jack i agree, id rather have a gm than a fake plastic hood scoop having tundra.

Its said the toyota had a record seeling month…..for that name plate, not compared to other brands.

Anyone who really need a truck to do truck work, knows this is not the truck.

This video shows another fact that the Tundra is just a big grille and hyped up bull****.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zRfE_XAk2mE&mode=related&search=

The Tundra still uses a non boxed frame???

jackjim, you obviously didnt read my entire post. I was responding to another members post that Toyota is going the way of GM. My post referenced when GM began making poor quality vehicles IN THE PAST. And I even wrote “thankfully GM has gotten the workers to produce quality” meaning that today GM is producing many quality vehicles. My post never claimed GM makes poor quality today.

Driven – are you kidding me? That’s bullxxxx that Toyota hasn’t slipped in quality. Their own CEO admitted it that they have to make changes after their massive number of recalls. It almost sounds like your blaming GM for the bad contracts they were forced to sign. UAW would go on strike or do whatever it needs to if GM didn’t sign their latest contracts insuring their benefist and medical coverage and all that BS a few years ago.

Also, you are telling me that LeftLaneNews updated the article with the “latest incentive information” because people were claiming sales were due to incentives? In other words, you are saying that LLN was defending Toy? Dude, if you by any chance work for them (and that’s how you got your explanation) than they really need to get their act together and stop defending imports and bashing domestics. THIS POST: Yay Toyota will sell 200,000 tundras. NEXT POST: Boo DaimlerChrysler (with the Chrysler logo as a picture) paid out 6 Billion dollars in warranty claims. And don’t tell me that those are just the news because I can find you news on other sites that are positive/negative towards the wonderful new turndra AS well as the american pick-ups.

Lastly, of course the tundra had a record setting month…its their first full-size that can be considered a real truck. If you compare it to the last generation, they have no where to go but up. That’s hardly news. This is the same, for example, with the Chevy Malibu. The old one SUCKS and when the new one comes out, sales are bound to rise. Simple as that.

Driven wrote: “in your past two posts you make reference to GMs problems in the past and claim Toyota is bound for the same fate.” When I really only typed this one sentence on the topic: “Sounds a lot like the American companies in the beginnings of their declines”. Check for yourself above. And I stand by it.

I dont think you read my entire post. I never called out specific parallels that the companies have experienced or are experiencing. We are talking about different decades with entirely separate issues for auto companies to deal with. GM entered into its problem-times in the 70/80s. I am alleging Toyota is entering into theirs now. My point, that I thought I annoyingly reiterated a couple of days ago, was that the first cracks are showing in the dam but Toyota loyalists are putting their heads into the sand singing songs about the good ol’ days. I was one of those die-hard domestic loyalists in the 80/90s. I denied clear evidence that imports (specifically Toyota) were building superior products, because of prejudice.

You wrote: “Toyota has grown to this point and hasnt slipped in reliability ratings so far (edmunds, CR and JDP)” and “Toyota has yet to slip so I don’t see where they need to stabilize before continuing to grow.” Huh? Instead of blind references (edmunds, CR and JDP) can you please link to reputable information that clearly states your claim? Please check out these two excerpts from a previous post:

According to Consumer Affairs (I know, I know, but numbers are numbers http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/07/toyota_recalls.html), “Toyota has now recalled almost 800,000 vehicles in July” and “Last year, Toyota’s recalls in the U.S. more than doubled as the number of recalls industry-wide registered a slight decline.” Industry-wide recalls declined, but Toyota’s more than DOUBLED.

and

According to MSNBC, “The automaker has received reports of 11 accidents and six injuries connected to the recall [of Tundra pickup trucks and Sequoia sport utility vehicles], said Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong.”

I agree with you about the American unions for the most part, but that’s another topic. I believe that Toyota is losing its edge.

I’m not gonna lie: I’ve seen as many new Tundras on the road as I have new Silverado/Sierra pickups. If Toyota had a stronger dealership network outside of the 50,000+ people cities, you might see more of the Tundras in rural areas. But in the city, it’s definitely been doing really well and holding its own. Seeing a 1:1 ratio of new Tundras to new GMT900s like I have gives me the impression that the Tundra will take more out of the domestic pickup market share than anyone might have originally expected. Toyota says that they’re going to start production of heavy-duty Tundras soon…that saga will be just as fun to watch as the one going on right now with the half-tons. Currently, the vast majority of the new Tundras I’m seeing are the Double Cabs. You gotta admit, they look pretty nice inside and out. I’ve sat in one, and there’s more storage in it than your refrigerator.

It’s fun to watch Tundra’s take away market share from domestics Phil??? That’s not fun. Domestics (and a lot of their employees) depend on these trucks. If they don’t sell, people lose their jobs, get early buyouts, etc. That’s not fun…that is people losing their jobs. And also, as you mentioned, the Tundra “looks nice” inside and out. That is what pisses me off…it only LOOKS like a full-size truck. It’s all show and no go.

Lastly, don’t be too happy about Toy taking away domestic market share…Tunrda is only taking away a tiny amount, the rest is taken away because the truck segment in general is on the decline.

god damn its a truck for cryin out loud, look at it this way…..its better than the ridgeline….now move on,jeeeeez.

Although i despise toyota and everything they do, touch, or breathe for that matter, they do make some indestructible trucks. I still hate this thing though, its ugly as sin, and says Toyota on it.

woo hoo, their third kick at a full sized truck and they have to stack 4-6k on the hood of each one to get 200k in sales, with a capacity between plants of what 400k?

HYUCK HYUCK, oh what a feeling..

Driven: I stand corrected.

Commodor: You mentioned people “depending” on domestic trucks. Ford and Chevy have proven themselves dependable

CTS: the ridgeline doesn’t even deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the Tundra, which doesa deserve mention alongside Ford/GM/Nissan/Dodge. It’s just a weak sissy bastard

worse jack its a honda with 4 wheels, blah real hondas have 2 wheels damnit.

CTS: Hondas with fewer than four wheels are allright to excellent

Drove the Tundra (for Work). I was surprised. It felt like a high-quality truck. I sat in the Xcab (NOT the double cab) in the back, and with the front seat all the way back, my 6′ ass was not at all cramped.
Plenty of power (5.7)
only thing was the knobs seemed cheap and garish, and the shifter was on the column. Of course, i didn’t haul anything, bvut it seemed like it could. Today woudn’t be my convern, it’d be 11 years down te road.
Gas milage is pathetic, even the TMC U.S.A. guy admitted that

They must have been whoring these things out in December to get to 196k.

Toyota’s got a profitable strategy. Those who were stupid enough to buy a Tundra in 2007 are more likely to get a second in a few more years.

RicardoHead’s right: they must have putting that date rape drug in the showroom coffee in order for that many buyers to get screwed.

Toyota was dishing out incentives left and right, as well.

It’s no surprise, really. At first glance it looks capable, but the Tundra is simply not a well-built truck. The true pick-up kings are the F-150 and Silverado. My friend owns a 1999 F-150, and the abuse that monster can take (driving it literally half-submerged in muddy water) is incredible.

5th overall is where this slug is going to stay. Sell the damn things at a loss if they want to – there are just so many Americans that are going for it.
Nobody thinks the big 4 are going to give ground – do they?

The Nissan Titan needs a regular cab if its to do well. Notice that all the other trucks (F150, Tundra, Silverado/Sierra, Ram) all have three cab styles: regular, extended, and crew.

Thats what pickups are about, choices, and the more the better.

I also meant to say – piss on ‘em.

One normally can’t place much credence in “sales goals” as being actual sales targets–because undercutting one usually saves face on the other.

But, Toyota is probably smarting here with a tinge of failure. Toyota is bound to have known that it couldn’t touch the Big 3 on sales. And with how close the Sierra was, Toyota probably had its eye on the number 4 spot.

Will greater exposure in NASCAR, etc. help (don’t be offended, but I’m assuming there are a lot of truck buyers in the NASCAR-fan demographic)? Of course, missing your quota by less than 2% probably just means Toyota could have made its goal by just being more aggressive with a couple of weeks of incentives.

I’m suprised that the F150 remains on top, the competition has passed it on alot of fronts. I guess it all comes down to Ford guys buying Fords, Chevy guys buying Chevys, etc. As far as Toyota, too bad. Like I was saying, it’s not possible to switch these folks from the brands they support. I’m glad for that too, it shows Toyota their worldwide conquest is going to be harder than they expected.

The you tube vids are great. And prove out my suspicions that the open frame crap they were selling is exactly the cost cutting thats until recently killed GMs product quality for the last 30 years.

LOL @ Nissan Titan. But I wouldn’t be laughing if it had a diesel.

There was article in NYTimes about the whole segment being affected. It scary for all manufacturers because SUV owners are known to be fickle and swap SUVs for CUV and jump from brand to brand. Not so with pickups. They are very loyal bunch and when they stop buying, there is trouble in the industry.

The Titan is actually a decent enough truck (I prefer it to the Tundra) but the interior is a piece of shït. Crappiest interior plastics/materials-quality of any truck, including the Ram.

i hate the tundra

Hmm, just where has the compitiion passed the F-150? Towing? Payload? Maybe the headlights?

The Ford F-150 has more combinations of wheel bases, cab configurations, engines and and trim levels than most manufacturers have in their total models including cars. Then you can through in the Ford Super Duty line.

The video above looks like a segment of the “Truth about trucks” put out by Ford. You may do yourself a favor and stop by your local Ford store and pick one up. They’re free. Yea, I sell Ford trucks, and it pisses me off every time some rice burner lover slams the Ford truck when they don’t have a clue.

I guess 31 years of “Loyalty” means the majority of truck buyrs are just stupid….

haha that’s pathetic!! As much as $10,000 on the hood of each of these, and they still couldn’t move 200,000? That is not even a big number in this segment – as LLN said, Ford and Chevy sells 3-4 times that. Even the GMC Sierra beat the Tundra (which Toy said was their goal to overtake). Pathetic. I hope sales only get lower from here on.

hateful83 – indeed, those toyoda faithfuls are impossible to convince to switch. And the F-150 is old, yes, but I hope you are not saying that it has been passed by the Tundra. Because the Ford is still better than the brand new Tundra. Also, why would someone who has been driving domestic trucks for years all of a sudden switch to a Japanese truck? The Japs have no experience building solid trucks, so they suck at them as the Tundra proved.

“Toyogurt” will NEVER beat GMC. GMC has a lot of history behind it so I don’t know why they’re not at least up there with the Silverado.

Commodore, I, as well as you realize that people who’ve been driving domestic trucks aren’t gonna jump on the Toyota bandwagon. (at least not over night) I just wonder why Toyota thought they would? Also, I’ve never read a comparison test between the F150 and the Tundra, so I really don’t know which is “better”. I just know I wouldn’t buy a Toyota truck, or car really. The only reason I was suprised by the F150 being #1 is the new Silverado, which has come a long way. I thought it might be able to overtake, guess not.

Scarface- What incentives? There aren’t any more incentives they could give away, they’d be loosing profit on every truck they sell (I’m/ I wouldn’t be suprised if they weren’t loosing money on every truck sold anyways)!

TKS, I want you to join upyoursale.com. It’s a forum for car salesmen. And I agree completely. Toyota has no place in the full-size truck market.

Agreed. Anyone who bought a POS “truck” like this deserves what’s coming to them. Toy Ota, give it up. The Domestics have the upper hand here and will win hands down in any kind of power/strength competition.

hateful – because so many people have jumped on that bandwagon already. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: all Toy is riding on right now is reputation. Their cars and trucks (with the exception of some like the Camry and Tundra) are on par with the competition at best. Other than that, they are nothing special. Toy expects Americans to continue to be the idiots that they have been recently and simply buy whatever Toy puts out; Camry, Tundra, Prius – Toy expects us to buy it all because of its so called reputation for quality. Now, with the Tundra, Toy needs to realize that anybody who has had a domestic truck knows that the Big 3 make perfectly reliable trucks – in fact, trucks are probably their best product. So Toy thought that putting up to $10,000 on the hood of all of their trucks would do the trick of moving 200,000 of them.

On the point of the Silverado not doing better than it has: The Silverado is a great truck but, especially with the slowing pick up market, will remain the #2 truck for years to come (new F-150 is months away anyway). But don’t worry. GM is still the #1 seller of full-size pickups because their Silverado and Sierra combined generate over 800,000 units.

Commodore- Just to make the argument more complicated for funs sake, consider how many F-series Super Duty pick-ups are sold compared to Chevrolet’s and GMC’s, added to the sales of their respective smaller pick-ups, and Ford still sells more F-series trucks.

I’m a Ford guy, partly because I’ve had a great experience with Ford (and Subaru’s pretty good too, Dodge is alright but crap interior and transmission), but I must say the Chevrolet Silverado is extremely nice. Not a great truck to get dirty in for the higher trim levels, but very smooth, high quality materials and an easy going truck.

commodore – get a life. you glorify nearly all american gas guzzlers and you’re always on you’re knees like GM’S little bitch . the truth is american cars companies can only build cars for america and cannot build a car that makes sense globally. the only reason FORD is so successful in europe (rightly so) is that the product is developed in europe by europeans same for GM’S euro brands (except the suck). The japanese have proven that the can build a product for the global market and have been successful, where as the rest of the world laughs at american cars.

Oh, please. Who gives a **** about europeans?

cardesigner- I think I should mention Toyota and Honda’s sales are fair to meager in the following markets:

-Europe
-South America
-The most of Asia
-Their own home market of Japan.

The only market Toyota or Honda have a reasonable following is America, obviously one of the biggest automotive markets in the world.

Also, not all of Ford’s European’s designs are not based over in Europe. The last generation Mondeo and Focus, which both were huge successes and really boosted Fords sales to what it is today in Europe, were both designed in America. More recently, Ford imported idea’s from their American van designers to make the recent Ford Transit.

It’s bullcrap that we can’t make a global car, GM has done it too (successfully). Seriously, look at all the rebadged Chevrolet’s and Saturns that are actually Vauxhall’s and Opel’s, obviously your just too angry or too immature to consider any of that.

Ford and GM have sold trucks since- well, before the Declaration of independence. Toyota just came off the boat (in truck design and selling terms). They set themselves a target of 200,000 and missed it by a smidgen. What part of this effort do you all find so hard to applaud? You can bet the third-gen Tundra will have the 100th-gen F150 looking nervously over its shoulder. Very nervously. Probably already is.

The Tundra is a **** truck anway. The toyota trucks that are in use in Dubai, Japan, South Asia and Africa are of much much better quality. The Tundra is just hopeless.

Sales expectations was not the only goal Toyota missed with this vehicle. It’s quite obvious that they also missed their goals concerning build quality and reliability. I think they should worry more about the latter than the former since their products are nothing without their accompanying “assumed reliability” image. If Toyota loses their greatest asset of “appliance-like reliability”, they will not have any other weapon in their arsenal to make their products stand out from the crowd in the market.

GM has nothing to stand on right now. They have a reputation (and facts to back it up) for poor build quality and their cars and trucks are not proven and it will be a hard sell over the Japanese and now Korean competition. At best GM is mediocre . They are nothing special. GM expects Americans to buy their cars out of a sense of false patriotism and that may fool people on this board but a majority of people know which cars are more reliable and they have Toyota and Honda badges on them.

No person with sense will even consider a GM Malibu over an Accord or Camry when shopping unless they are a devoted “patriot”. You seen these idiots with the “I spend it where I make it ” stickers They dont realize that GM was one of the first companies to close their US plants and send them to Mexico SO I guess these people are spending Peso’s.

Toyota has its reputation for quality. Now, they are #2 and creeping up on GM’s cheap car bulidng Malibu pushing asses.

GM needs to realize that they messed up big time and it will take more than one model with heavy marketing to sell a car. How can I tell this car is reliable when it forst comes out ?? You cant. The Honda sits on the same platform and uses the same in house engines that are proven reliable and that is why I see 5 Accords per day to one or two Saturn Errors or Maliboo’s. It will take years of a car performing similar to the Japanese That means 12 year plus with little or no problems a good ride and high resale
Toyota fell short but its still getting to the #1 spot in 08 and Ford GM and Chrysler will suffer. Families dont buy Hick Up trucks they buy passenger cars

Your fears are understandable.
This post was obviously put up to give domestics hope.
Whatever gets you to sleep at night.
Sierra WILL be passed next year, and Ram by 2010.
If we tried to list all the ways the domestic trucks have not gotten it done, we couldn’t fit posts on this page.
It’s Toyota’s World.
GM and Ford are just here to make Toyota look even better.
Toyota would buy either one, if they were worth buying.
But Americans don’t need to be told that.
DrFill

I say we all totally ignore tripleonefive.

Mazdaman- True.
Sanfranmac- Toyota’s been making trucks for a while also, about 35 years compared to Ford’s 50 or so years. Really it’s no longer a game of who’s been building the better product for longer, now the technology is shared and it’s available to any automanufacturer. Toyota just developed the idea that the reason why the Tundra wasn’t selling was because of it’s small stature, and they went with this ugly Dodge poser. And for a company renown for copying other vehicles, why wouldn’t they be able to copy a pick-up? It’s the fact they cut corners and don’t have a backing like Ford or GM.

1115, I noticed that during your little diatribe, you didn’t mention the Tundra once. Why’s that? It couldn’t be that you can’t think up a BS excuse for why it’s failing?

jayjc08 – if you want to complicate the argument like that by adding Ford’s 3/4 ton and 1 ton and bigger trucks, then you would also have to add in GM’s Silverado HD2500, 3500, and so on. They did sell their medium duty truck biz though (the Kodiak and Topkick are gone) so that might lower GM sales a bit. The point is that i love both Ford and GM trucks and they come out about even in sales at the end, maybe a slight lead for GM still. By the way, I prefer the F-150 to the Silverado (and I already like the new F-150 from the spy shots better). However, the GMC Sierra would be the truck I buy if I was in the market for one. Overall, Ford wins the Ford vs Chevy argument for me, but GM wins the FoMoCo vs GM argument.

cardesigner5 – I am not glorifying gas guzzlers. I am simply talking trucks. And don’t pretend that the Tundra is not more of a gas guzzler than the Silverado/Sierra which by the way have the best fuel economy in the class. Second, I have a life. Unlike 1115 who I later found out was continuing to post meaningless sht about how much America sucks into the wee hours of Christmas Eve, I…..wasn’t. Also, I am not GM’s bitch, I am simply defending GM against the crap 1115 posts about them. He made the argument primarily GM vs Toy so that is what we have been talking about. Next, you really need to educate yourself A LOT more on the auto industry because you try to talk about it. Ford, as you already mentioned, has a great presence in Europe, but that is pretty much it. GM on the other hand, is truly a global automaker and has a presence in all of Europe with Opel which is VERY successful and also in specific regions like the UK with Vauxhall and in Scandinavia with Saab. In addition, Holden is very dominant in Australia and the Middle East, and Daewoo is a strong 2nd/3rd in sales in Korea after Hyundai. Daewoo is also huge in Europe and Russia where they are sold as Chevy’s (which is okay because the cars are sold in different markets – it doesn’t matter what they are called). Lastly, GM is #1 in China, selling a million units so I would say that they are pretty dominant worldwide

sanfranmac – great, san fransisco idiots have invaded LLN. The part I find difficult to applaud is how Toy is doing things. First they have the old Tundra which was even worse than this one, and then Toy makes the new one HUGE. They somehow think that making a truck bigger and putting a big engine in it makes it a competitive full-size truck. Yea, ~100,000 Toyoda loyalists bought into it, buy they were not conquest buyers – they were mostly people who traded in their old Tundra. Then Toyoda sold as many as they could to fleet buyers at half price and lastly they put $10,000 on the hood to move as many more as they could in order to reach their goal. Any kind of “success” from the Tundra was the result of hundreds of millions to build the factory and develop this POS. Then millions more in incentives. This was very unprofitable for Toyoda for sure. It is just sad that they are sitting on Billions of dollars, and with all that money, they still could move the full 200,000. They sold even less than the Sierra which isn’t even a mass market truck!!

DrFill – hi 1115!! How many accounts total have you made?

1115 – “they [GM] have a reputation (and facts to back it up) for poor build quality”. Really? You have FACTS now? I would absolutely be delighted to see them! So please share them with us in your next awesome post, because you know going back to the patriotism issue is not going to cut it, especially since no one here has ever suggested to buy a Malibu because of patriotism. But wait, why are you going back to the Malibu? I though that case was closed after I showed you countless reviews and links that put the Malibu in the same category as the Camcord. And remember, all I tried to prove was that the Bu is in the same league as them, not that YOU should buy it. Anyway, try to stay on topic next time 1115. This article is about the Tundra, and what a POS it is and how it did not even beat the GMC Sierra which is absolutely pathetic. The Sierra is not even the mass market truck, the Silverado is, so its very disappointing that the Tundra didn’t beat it. A little bit of good news for you: you were talking about Toy not beating GM this year or something? I am pretty sure that Toy did overtake GM in total sales this year, where did you read that they did not? Anyway, Toy has done it! It’s dreams came true! It beat GM in sales…..maybe now it will go back to working on quality..

Not my dream come tru and I could care less about some Hick truck whether it be from Gm or Toyota All I know is that the Toyota brand vs the Gm brand the Toyota brand is the more reliable brand
Its hard to get hicks to switch from Fords Gm and Dodges bc they feel an allegiance to companies that lay them off and make inferior products Its patriotism that sells the domestics not quality
The Malibu isnt in the same leagus as the Accord and Camry and you dont have to worry about me buying one bc that wont even be a consideration until the GM cars prove themselves or some one give me one or I can trade a six pack for one bc thats what people do with american cars since they have no monetary value

Post the Kia Borrego LLN so Commo and Jack jim (nice posts on urban dictionary btw) can see why the Lambdas are in for

Commodore- No no no… I meant add on Chevrolet 2500 and 3500 sales originally, if that wasn’t so clear. If you added all the sales up, Ford’s total F-series sales would be higher than Chevrolet and GM’s truck sales, if you exclude F-550 and larger because GM just sold their top-kick business. I just wanted to add that to the mess, pick-up wars.

And just for mention to anybody else, I don’t celebrate a winter holiday, which was why I was up in the morning arguing with 1115. And seriously, arguing with tripleonefive is pointless, it was fun but a few pages of information later and he’s bringing up the same points, it’s overused and stupid. We all can see he has no life, why give him one? He hasn’t “earned it”, he hasn’t had that great “reliability” or “sales” (just to his local redlight district “economy”) and he obviously has no facts.

1115, why don’t you give up your obsession with the Malibu (you must really like it, thou doth protest too much) and actually talk about the focus of the article?

1115:
You doltish, half witted, deficient dodo.
You stupefied, witless, imbecilic moron.
You inane, senseless, cretinous dip.
You nonsensical, insipid, irksome loon.

(This has been provided for anyone who has ever had to suffer through a reading of the painfully pointless ramblings of you know who.)

Thank you, jayjc08. Seriously, what IS the point of arguing with 1115? It is obvious to me that he is just some kid who gets his kicks out of seeing people argue so he posts absolute BS to instigate. Either that or his last name is Lee.

And his grandpa’s name is Eugene.

DrFill, assuming you’re not, in fact, 1115, the Turdra will NOT EVER pass GMC in sales. You named yourself after THE phoniest person alive so you pretty much have no right to post any comments.

If this truck was produced by anyone but Toyota (even GM, Ford, Dodge and Nissan), it wouldn’t be getting nearly as much press. That Toyota badge makes all of us go crazy.
Comment by Bryce

I disagree, if this had a GM or Ford badge on it everyone would be bitching about how the domestics made a horrible truck. It’d be plastered everywhere.

Add the GMC Sierra and Chevy Silverado sales together (which are the same truck), and you have a clear picture of who is #1 in trucks: GM. And they got there by building the best.

Bryce: “Toyota’s got a profitable strategy. Those who were stupid enough to buy a Tundra in 2007 are more likely to get a second in a few more years.”

In a weird way, that makes sense.

CA36GTP: “At first glance it looks capable, but the Tundra is simply not a well-built truck.” I drove the Tundra, and it felt solid. The news came later. But, it didn’t at the time say to me, “you should pass up the Silverado for this.” The current F-150 isn’t as nice, in my opinion, but 30 years has told me that it’s a dependable truck.

Sell the damn things at a loss if they want to – there are just so many Americans that are going for it.
Nobody thinks the big 4 are going to give ground – do they?

Comment by lucklaster: “5th overall is where this slug is going to stay.” I expect it to eventually pass the Sierra.

rms492: Only thing I don’t like about the Titan is that it seats five at the max.

hateful83: “I’m suprised that the F150 remains on top, the competition has passed it on alot of fronts.” That may be true, but the difference is not so great that Ford loyalists will leave their favorite rig. And a new one is coming.

RicardoHead: last Ram I drove, I thought the interior was swell.

Commodore: “I hope sales only get lower from here on.” I don’t, not really. As long as people THINK a Toyota is better – false though that may be – more improvements will be on the agenda for other manufacturers.
Bryce: “Toyota has no place in the full-size truck market.” I disagree. I think Toyota’s place is to force continual improvements.

gbb: I like the raw, masculine look of the tundra. But I also like the “when-you-got-a-big-dick-you-don’t-need-a-Mercedes simplicity of the GMT900.

Commodore: I think full-sized trucks are the Big 3’s best products. Toyota trying to sell such a thing not only has to convince the consumer he should buy one, but also has to show him that he should abandon his durable F-150 or Silverado. Sort of like running against an incumbent: you gotta show why you deserve the job, but also why the other guy doesn’t deserve to keep it.

jayjc08: “I’m a Ford guy, partly because I’ve had a great experience with Ford.” What a novel concept!

injunraiv: “Who gives a **** about europeans?” good comeback.

LP640: “The toyota trucks that are in use in Dubai, Japan, South Asia and Africa are of much much better quality.” They have to be.

mazdaman: once again, talking sense. But it was Motor Trend’s Truck of the year. (Snickers)

“No person with sense will even consider a GM Malibu over an Accord or Camry when shopping unless they (sic0 are a devoted “patriot.”
No person with sense would post about cars on a truck thread. Unless it was relevant.

‘Families dont (sic) buy Hick Up trucks they buy passenger cars.” So all these were bought by individuals?

Commodore: not to mention that the guys working at the construction site that would be the Tundra plant drove there in F-series and Super Duty rigs. I immediately suspected 1115 and Dr.Fill were one and the same. But I have no PROOF.

“’they [GM] have a reputation (and facts to back it up) for poor build quality.’ Really? You have FACTS now? I would absolutely be delighted to see them!”

Here are some facts that prove GM makes crap and ONLY crap. 1983 Cavalier. Wrecked in 1998 with 190K on the Odometer. Regular maintenance only. 1999 Olds. Traded in with 128K on the odometer. Credited more than the theoretical resale value of it toward the Buick.

“Its (sic) patriotism that sells the domestics (sic) not quality.
If that were the case, the celebrity would sell a million units a year.

Z06ified: “And they got there by building the best.” Agreed.

LP640, jackjimturkey didn’t mean they have to be quality ONLY in those places you mentioned.
Think about it, JACKASS, before you post a thoughtless reply.