In a weird way, that makes sense.

CA36GTP: “At first glance it looks capable, but the Tundra is simply not a well-built truck.” I drove the Tundra, and it felt solid. The news came later. But, it didn’t at the time say to me, “you should pass up the Silverado for this.” The current F-150 isn’t as nice, in my opinion, but 30 years has told me that it’s a dependable truck.

Sell the damn things at a loss if they want to – there are just so many Americans that are going for it.
Nobody thinks the big 4 are going to give ground – do they?

Comment by lucklaster: “5th overall is where this slug is going to stay.” I expect it to eventually pass the Sierra.

rms492: Only thing I don’t like about the Titan is that it seats five at the max.

hateful83: “I’m suprised that the F150 remains on top, the competition has passed it on alot of fronts.” That may be true, but the difference is not so great that Ford loyalists will leave their favorite rig. And a new one is coming.

RicardoHead: last Ram I drove, I thought the interior was swell.

Commodore: “I hope sales only get lower from here on.” I don’t, not really. As long as people THINK a Toyota is better – false though that may be – more improvements will be on the agenda for other manufacturers.
Bryce: “Toyota has no place in the full-size truck market.” I disagree. I think Toyota’s place is to force continual improvements.

gbb: I like the raw, masculine look of the tundra. But I also like the “when-you-got-a-big-dick-you-don’t-need-a-Mercedes simplicity of the GMT900.

Commodore: I think full-sized trucks are the Big 3’s best products. Toyota trying to sell such a thing not only has to convince the consumer he should buy one, but also has to show him that he should abandon his durable F-150 or Silverado. Sort of like running against an incumbent: you gotta show why you deserve the job, but also why the other guy doesn’t deserve to keep it.

jayjc08: “I’m a Ford guy, partly because I’ve had a great experience with Ford.” What a novel concept!

injunraiv: “Who gives a shit about europeans?” good comeback.

LP640: “The toyota trucks that are in use in Dubai, Japan, South Asia and Africa are of much much better quality.” They have to be.

mazdaman: once again, talking sense. But it was Motor Trend’s Truck of the year. (Snickers)

“No person with sense will even consider a GM Malibu over an Accord or Camry when shopping unless they (sic0 are a devoted “patriot.”
No person with sense would post about cars on a truck thread. Unless it was relevant.

‘Families dont (sic) buy Hick Up trucks they buy passenger cars.” So all these were bought by individuals?

Commodore: not to mention that the guys working at the construction site that would be the Tundra plant drove there in F-series and Super Duty rigs. I immediately suspected 1115 and Dr.Fill were one and the same. But I have no PROOF.

“’they [GM] have a reputation (and facts to back it up) for poor build quality.’ Really? You have FACTS now? I would absolutely be delighted to see them!”

Here are some facts that prove GM makes crap and ONLY crap. 1983 Cavalier. Wrecked in 1998 with 190K on the Odometer. Regular maintenance only. 1999 Olds. Traded in with 128K on the odometer. Credited more than the theoretical resale value of it toward the Buick.

“Its (sic) patriotism that sells the domestics (sic) not quality.
If that were the case, the celebrity would sell a million units a year.

Z06ified: “And they got there by building the best.” Agreed.

I disagree, if this had a GM or Ford badge on it everyone would be bitching about how the domestics made a horrible truck. It’d be plastered everywhere.

(This has been provided for anyone who has ever had to suffer through a reading of the painfully pointless ramblings of you know who.)

And just for mention to anybody else, I don’t celebrate a winter holiday, which was why I was up in the morning arguing with 1115. And seriously, arguing with tripleonefive is pointless, it was fun but a few pages of information later and he’s bringing up the same points, it’s overused and stupid. We all can see he has no life, why give him one? He hasn’t “earned it”, he hasn’t had that great “reliability” or “sales” (just to his local redlight district “economy”) and he obviously has no facts.

Post the Kia Borrego LLN so Commo and Jack jim (nice posts on urban dictionary btw) can see why the Lambdas are in for

1115 – “they [GM] have a reputation (and facts to back it up) for poor build quality”. Really? You have FACTS now? I would absolutely be delighted to see them! So please share them with us in your next awesome post, because you know going back to the patriotism issue is not going to cut it, especially since no one here has ever suggested to buy a Malibu because of patriotism. But wait, why are you going back to the Malibu? I though that case was closed after I showed you countless reviews and links that put the Malibu in the same category as the Camcord. And remember, all I tried to prove was that the Bu is in the same league as them, not that YOU should buy it. Anyway, try to stay on topic next time 1115. This article is about the Tundra, and what a POS it is and how it did not even beat the GMC Sierra which is absolutely pathetic. The Sierra is not even the mass market truck, the Silverado is, so its very disappointing that the Tundra didn’t beat it. A little bit of good news for you: you were talking about Toy not beating GM this year or something? I am pretty sure that Toy did overtake GM in total sales this year, where did you read that they did not? Anyway, Toy has done it! It’s dreams came true! It beat GM in sales…..maybe now it will go back to working on quality..

cardesigner5 – I am not glorifying gas guzzlers. I am simply talking trucks. And don’t pretend that the Tundra is not more of a gas guzzler than the Silverado/Sierra which by the way have the best fuel economy in the class. Second, I have a life. Unlike 1115 who I later found out was continuing to post meaningless sht about how much America sucks into the wee hours of Christmas Eve, I…..wasn’t. Also, I am not GM’s bitch, I am simply defending GM against the crap 1115 posts about them. He made the argument primarily GM vs Toy so that is what we have been talking about. Next, you really need to educate yourself A LOT more on the auto industry because you try to talk about it. Ford, as you already mentioned, has a great presence in Europe, but that is pretty much it. GM on the other hand, is truly a global automaker and has a presence in all of Europe with Opel which is VERY successful and also in specific regions like the UK with Vauxhall and in Scandinavia with Saab. In addition, Holden is very dominant in Australia and the Middle East, and Daewoo is a strong 2nd/3rd in sales in Korea after Hyundai. Daewoo is also huge in Europe and Russia where they are sold as Chevy’s (which is okay because the cars are sold in different markets – it doesn’t matter what they are called). Lastly, GM is #1 in China, selling a million units so I would say that they are pretty dominant worldwide

sanfranmac – great, san fransisco idiots have invaded LLN. The part I find difficult to applaud is how Toy is doing things. First they have the old Tundra which was even worse than this one, and then Toy makes the new one HUGE. They somehow think that making a truck bigger and putting a big engine in it makes it a competitive full-size truck. Yea, ~100,000 Toyoda loyalists bought into it, buy they were not conquest buyers – they were mostly people who traded in their old Tundra. Then Toyoda sold as many as they could to fleet buyers at half price and lastly they put $10,000 on the hood to move as many more as they could in order to reach their goal. Any kind of “success” from the Tundra was the result of hundreds of millions to build the factory and develop this POS. Then millions more in incentives. This was very unprofitable for Toyoda for sure. It is just sad that they are sitting on Billions of dollars, and with all that money, they still could move the full 200,000. They sold even less than the Sierra which isn’t even a mass market truck!!

Mazdaman- True.
Sanfranmac- Toyota’s been making trucks for a while also, about 35 years compared to Ford’s 50 or so years. Really it’s no longer a game of who’s been building the better product for longer, now the technology is shared and it’s available to any automanufacturer. Toyota just developed the idea that the reason why the Tundra wasn’t selling was because of it’s small stature, and they went with this ugly Dodge poser. And for a company renown for copying other vehicles, why wouldn’t they be able to copy a pick-up? It’s the fact they cut corners and don’t have a backing like Ford or GM.

No person with sense will even consider a GM Malibu over an Accord or Camry when shopping unless they are a devoted “patriot”. You seen these idiots with the “I spend it where I make it ” stickers They dont realize that GM was one of the first companies to close their US plants and send them to Mexico SO I guess these people are spending Peso’s.

Toyota has its reputation for quality. Now, they are #2 and creeping up on GM’s cheap car bulidng Malibu pushing asses.

GM needs to realize that they messed up big time and it will take more than one model with heavy marketing to sell a car. How can I tell this car is reliable when it forst comes out ?? You cant. The Honda sits on the same platform and uses the same in house engines that are proven reliable and that is why I see 5 Accords per day to one or two Saturn Errors or Maliboo’s. It will take years of a car performing similar to the Japanese That means 12 year plus with little or no problems a good ride and high resale
Toyota fell short but its still getting to the #1 spot in 08 and Ford GM and Chrysler will suffer. Families dont buy Hick Up trucks they buy passenger cars

-Europe
-South America
-The most of Asia
-Their own home market of Japan.

The only market Toyota or Honda have a reasonable following is America, obviously one of the biggest automotive markets in the world.

Also, not all of Ford’s European’s designs are not based over in Europe. The last generation Mondeo and Focus, which both were huge successes and really boosted Fords sales to what it is today in Europe, were both designed in America. More recently, Ford imported idea’s from their American van designers to make the recent Ford Transit.

It’s bullcrap that we can’t make a global car, GM has done it too (successfully). Seriously, look at all the rebadged Chevrolet’s and Saturns that are actually Vauxhall’s and Opel’s, obviously your just too angry or too immature to consider any of that.

I’m a Ford guy, partly because I’ve had a great experience with Ford (and Subaru’s pretty good too, Dodge is alright but crap interior and transmission), but I must say the Chevrolet Silverado is extremely nice. Not a great truck to get dirty in for the higher trim levels, but very smooth, high quality materials and an easy going truck.

On the point of the Silverado not doing better than it has: The Silverado is a great truck but, especially with the slowing pick up market, will remain the #2 truck for years to come (new F-150 is months away anyway). But don’t worry. GM is still the #1 seller of full-size pickups because their Silverado and Sierra combined generate over 800,000 units.

The Ford F-150 has more combinations of wheel bases, cab configurations, engines and and trim levels than most manufacturers have in their total models including cars. Then you can through in the Ford Super Duty line.

The video above looks like a segment of the “Truth about trucks” put out by Ford. You may do yourself a favor and stop by your local Ford store and pick one up. They’re free. Yea, I sell Ford trucks, and it pisses me off every time some rice burner lover slams the Ford truck when they don’t have a clue.

I guess 31 years of “Loyalty” means the majority of truck buyrs are just stupid….

But, Toyota is probably smarting here with a tinge of failure. Toyota is bound to have known that it couldn’t touch the Big 3 on sales. And with how close the Sierra was, Toyota probably had its eye on the number 4 spot.

Will greater exposure in NASCAR, etc. help (don’t be offended, but I’m assuming there are a lot of truck buyers in the NASCAR-fan demographic)? Of course, missing your quota by less than 2% probably just means Toyota could have made its goal by just being more aggressive with a couple of weeks of incentives.

Thats what pickups are about, choices, and the more the better.

It’s no surprise, really. At first glance it looks capable, but the Tundra is simply not a well-built truck. The true pick-up kings are the F-150 and Silverado. My friend owns a 1999 F-150, and the abuse that monster can take (driving it literally half-submerged in muddy water) is incredible.