::points and laughs at 1487_GM_Sales!!!::

I’d just like to beat GM_SALES to the punch:

YES THIS IS A GOOD THING FOR GM. GM FOR THE WORLD!!!!!!!! GM MAKES THE BEST CARS EVER!!!

go go go

Ah! Rob beat me beating GM_SALES! How interesting.

The Tundra is a solid truck. It runs forever and its interior is far superior to GMC. Of course if I were running a business needing a pickup I would buy the cheaper, no frills GMC since its wouldn’t be a truck I would have to drive/ride in.

I cant wait to see what lies GM_Sales will say to this story. Maybe he’ll claim he get 1000 Tundra trade-ins a day from people switching to Sierras. That sounds like something GM_sales would write.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t like to see any American company suffer. I’m a Republican after all. BUT it just cheers me up to see news like this and THEN get to watch apologists who are so deeply and mindlessly biased and in-denial like 1487_GM_SALES try to weakly reason their way out of these things. Makes me even happier when they start to cuss people out when they’re unable to defend their stances. It entertains me greatly.

I’d take the Tundra just for the rear window down feature, like on the 4-Runners. Saw a fully optioned Tundra yesterday and thought it to be very nice. I predict GM_SALES will arrive at 4pm EST…LOL

I only like toyota’s LC and 4runner which is all for the us line-up. I like the gmt900 series though. the silverado is nice. despite the recalls from the tundra, it also drive well.

Driven: The toyota is the worst full-size truck on the market. To wit
1 Chevy/GMC
2 Ford
3 Titan
4 Ram
5 The
One
You
Ough
To
Avoid

htay: I’m never buying another toyota, but the land Cruiser would be the one …

I would say GM_SALES is the real winner because you guys have fell right into his trap. I don’t think he even believes half of what he says, but I’ll bet he sure gets a rush out watching you guys take the bait. Just like the signs at the Zoo says, (”PLEASE DON’T FEED THE ANIMALS”)!!!

Hehe, Driven I actually traded in my Silverado for one of the old Tundras in the early 2000s, then traded that Tundra in for one of these new ones when they came out just because. Got absolutely sick of the GM’s scrappy quality (Needless to say NONE of the four GMs I’ve previously owned since 1991, kept their value very well). The Tundra is an absolute workhorse (I DO use my trucks for WORK), and it’s just as – if not more – capable as the GM, and the build quality is far better inside and out. If any GM-phile wants to argue stats and numbers with me, be my guest. I’ve driven both and I know which is better.
My brother-in-law’s family owns dealerships here in the Bay Area (VW, Chrysler, Toyota, Ford). The trade-ins from GM trucks to Toyota ones are actually pretty steady Before you call me biased, my oldest kid has a Dodge Ram that he’s equally pleased with.

jackjimturkey: You keep posting these “LISTS” ranking these trucks… yet you NEVER CITE what they’re ranking or where they’re from. I’ll just assume that these are all your subjective rankings without any real basis on anything, and, therefore, could just be dismissed as one man’s baseless opinion. That’s a little irresponsible of you to not cite your sources or what these “rankings” are, in fact, RANKING Now, I could easily just find legitimate lists elsewhere that contradict yours, but there are far too many and I don’t want to tire myself. You could find those on your own, I’m sure… smart man like yourself.

Regarding the topic at hand, why would any American in their right mind cheer on the Imports? I have driven both the new Tundra and Sierra, and my money would go to the Sierra. Not to mention the fact that the new 5.7 powering the Tundra has already suffered many failures, as has the 6 speed tranny supporting it. Not to mention the fact that the Tundra was the only fullsize truck to not receive a 5 star crash test rating.

jack: I do agree tht the silverado is the best full size in the market. I know some owners love it. I tried it and it was superb.

^^^^thats the problem you live in the bay area everybody hates america there .
anyways who cares all theese trucks are so friggin slose in the damn stats it just comes to personal preference…..nothing else.
i am a reluctant to buy a toyota due to a problem with my old 1986 that wouldnt go uphill and i lived on a mountain in lake arrowhead, but that in no way means the tundra or tacoma are bad 21 years later.
at least there are 100000 customers that can not complain about trucks on the road.
a truck is a truck is a truck is a truck.
p.s. who the hell wears a hardhat while driving?

I dont know if I would call it a success. They’ve had big time incentives on its hood since it came out.

And the number of retards gets greater!
More Tundra buyers = more retards buying it.
REAL pickups are American (or American with Japanese badging!).

CTS DRIVER: are talking to me?

htay500 the bay area crack was towards robcali you and mhw posted a little quicker than i did, i agree whith what you said.

i have no room to talk my truck is a 2000 nissan crew cab v6 and i love it, but i would prefer the silverado as a full sized truck.

If I had to buy a new full-size light-duty today, you’d better believe I’d give the new Tundra a look. That is one good looking truck, I admit (better than the current F150 or Silverado). I have heard of some cam issues with it, and that the frame is not fully boxed which may lead to safety and rigidity issues. Those would put me off somewhat.

Back in 02 I needed a truch and compared the F150, Tundra, and Silverado, and bought the F150 with a 5.4 liter. Best deal all around, the Tundra was not better out or in but cost more, and the GM salespeople were the most arrogant asswipes. 70k reasonably hard miles later, the only unplanned maintenance was 2 sets of wiper blades (BFD) and it is running like a champ, no issues, and gets an on average 21.5 mpg or better on summer blend. Not a bad deal, but the new F150 turns me off.

jackjim, whos list is that? Your list of the best or is there a source? You may claim Sierra is number one and Tundra is 5 but sales numbers dont lie. Tundra sales are on the way up and GMC sales are on the way down. Thats not to say the GMC is bad, just that Tundra is pretty good. I would still buy a Toyota for personal use and GMC for business use.

RobCali, I agree with you. The only reason I woudl pick a GMC for business is because it costs less and still gets the job done. If I only bought one truck for biz & personal use it would be the Tundra. I like the Tundra over the Sierra and judging by the sales number so does an increasing number of buyers.

musclemustang, th Tundra incentives are few and far between. If you want to talkabout incentive look at GMC and you will see thousands upon thousands in incentives. American car makers lead the industry in incentives that only go to increase short term sales and decrease long term value of their own vehicles. But short sighted returns are what GM is all about. Go incentives!

Well, Toyota has come a long way since the 80’s, and they are only now getting serious in the truck end of things. This is their first competitive entry into the full-size arena. Just think- GM/Ford has been doing this forever, and they’ve stagnated. Toyota comes along, and is already making waves. Also, “American” is soooo overused today. I’m American, and it’s funny that Americans can buy everything else from China or Japan, but cars are off-limits. For some reason (UAW??), Americans like spending $20,000+ on xxxx products. They’ll poke and prod a $400 device for quality, but lay down the bucks on a piece of crap vehicle. Funny…

CTS DRIVER- I live far in the East Bay, in a town that’s hardly “America-hating.” And I’m as REPUBLICAN as they come. So what is your point???

TOZO: The Tundra was designed and is built here in the States… primarily for the U.S. market, FYI.

RobCali: I know, but the money paid for Toyotas goes straight to Japan. UN-American. And the brand – Japanese.

so let me get this straight, if we guess the number of sierras that were half tons, and use that data (removing heavy duties) against the tundras we think it sold more?

lol.. Talk about an idiotic exercise in voodoo accounting.

why don’t we take out Ford Super Dutiy sales from the f series sales next and compare the estimated f150 sales to the price of tea in china… lol retards..

p.s. how anyone with functioning eyes could call the new tundra interior better than the new GMCs man I will never know…

but yeah congrats to toyota on the increasing sales of their most important US launch ever – with the help of 5-6k worth of incentives on a brand new model lmao.. If this happened to a domestic, it would be mocked from here to nagasaki by every import nutswinger in the land.

Another thing, CTS- If you wanna take a crack at Bay Area drivers trading in their GM trucks for Tundras because they’re “Anti-American”, I also happen to know that Tundras are pretty popular in Texas where I often visit (also where many the trucks are actually built). I don’t think call the Tundra’s demographic “Anti-American” at all.

In regards to MHW- I’m not “cheering on imports.” I’m cheering on the truck that I’m most satisfied with from experience, and it happens to be the Tundra.

TOZO: Do you know how many AMERICANS are employed by the Toyota company? Frankly, I don’t really care where the money goes- as long I’m getting a decent product and as long as my money’s not going to people who are gonna try to blow up city here in the states. You, sir, are basing your comments on a False Dichotomy. Foreign products are not necessarily Anti-American products.

At any rate, I’d like to invite you to go take an inventory of every single thing in your home, big and small, and as count how many were made here in the states and how many were made overseas. By YOUR definitions of “American,” sir, I’m betting that by the outcome of that inventory you’d be able to classify yourself as an “Anti-American.”

Stating the obvious

*** and count how many were made here in the states and how many were made overseas. (typo)

TOZO: “stating the obvious” huh? Took you pretty long to realize the “obvious.”

robcali there is no point i was just joking the smiley didnt pop up, until recently i was a rnc member but they hounded me for too many “donations” but i still generally lean towards the gop as far as my votes go.
but i still stick to my other point about all theese trucks are so close in specs that it just comes to personal preference.
still i love my jap truck so i can not poke at the tundra without being 2 faced.

^^ True, the Tundra’s had some BIG incentives as of recently.

Toyota’s considering recalling 2007 Tundra’s to replace the V-8’s in them.

I also heard Toyota’s supposedly recalling (or have been planning on) Toyota Tundras with short beds.

The older Toyota trucks were really reliable, and so were Nissans… now they’ve adapted some car like technologies and adaptations to make them more comfortable, but less reliable.

Personally I think the styling on the Tundra is ugly, but I have nothing else to say about that because I haven’t sat in one.

TOZO, by that logic no one should have been buying any Chrysler product for the better part of a decade so no money goes to Germany.

wow rob sorry for the bad joke didnt mean to offend,thats why i quickly stated my truck is japaneese, i dont need a full sized truck and the new frontiers im looking at are still better than the colorado/canyon, i will be the first to say it too.

How is this news?? This is only HYPOTHETICAL that Toy is gonna sell more TUrdas than GMCs. If it beats Chevy, that’s news – not this.

This is hardly a surprise either because Toy has TWICE (or more) the rebates that GM gives on their trucks. Of course sales are gonna be up if their mosterous gas-guzzling POS trucks give $3000-$4000 in rebates compares to only $1500 or so from the American trucks.

One more thing. Where the xxxx are the tree huggers that constantly complain about GM trucks killing the planet or whatever?

Robcali: you’re lying.
People who do real work don’t buy toyota “trucks.”

R-Head: you’re talking like someone who knows trucks. It’s clear that to some extent, you do

Driven sales numbers do lie

RobCali: Is the Tundra built or assembled in the U.S. Far as I know, toyota has never built a car in this country. I used to live in Alameda

CTS your “jap truck” is a nissan. I’d take a 10 year old nissan over a new toyonda

With all respect, CTS, I knew that was a joke. But I do know for a fact there are certain people on this board who actually bear those sentiments.

jackjimturkey: I’m not lying. You’re in denial. I built my home of about 4,000 square feet using a Tundra, and helped my brother-in-law build his. My son and my step-daughter are show-jumpers in the Central Valley and I use the Tundra to haul BOTH of their animals to shows. I could go on but I won’t bore you.

And yes, the Tundra built in the US, along with some other Toyotas… namely the TACOMA, which is put-together in a town that I’m sure you’ve heard of coming from Alameda, and the town is called Fremont, CA…. why- that town is even in Alameda county!! Can’t believe you didn’t know that.

jackjimturkey: I’m not lying. You’re in denial. I built my home of about 4,000 square feet using a Tundra, and helped my brother-in-law build his. My son and my step-daughter are show-jumpers in the Central Valley and I use the Tundra to haul BOTH of their animals to shows. I could go on but I won’t bore you.

And yes, the Tundra built in the US, along with some other Toyotas… namely the TACOMA, which is put-together in a town that I’m sure you’ve heard of coming from Alameda, and the town is called Fremont, CA…. that town is even in Alameda county! Can’t believe you didn’t know that.

[woops- sorry for the accidental double-post!]

robcali dont you hate it when lln double posts?

Yep Tundras are built in San Antonio and us Texans love em, a friend bought one, and that thing hauls ass. I was impressed by the newer ones, not so much the older Tundras because if you were 6ft I would hit my head hitting in sometimes, the newer Tundras have plenty of space. For the longest time the Japanese would forget Americans are taller and I feel they got it right with this revision of the Tundra.

Toyota tucks suck. Toyotas are bought by retards.

Okay, so RobCali is certifiably a fan of Tundras. Relax dude, we get it. You are just as guilty of denial or RA-RA cheerleading as you are accusing others of. FYI, Car and Driver, an esteemed automotive magazine, rated the Tundra 3rd behind the Chevy and Ford. And the Chevy won by a long shot.

With that said, I think the new Tundra is a nice looking machine. They’ve finally made a truck to be considered full size. Good power, good performance. I’d still buy the Chevy though. There isn’t a truck engine out there that I trust more than a Chevy V8. You’ll get better gas mileage.

On the other hand, I’d buy a Frontier over a Colorado, Ranger, or Dakota. And Tacoma would be a close 2nd choice. The Japanese have had the midsize truck market wrapped up for some time now. I drive an XTerra and wouldn’t trade it for anything else in it’s class.

TOZO: You accuse Toyota owners of retardation, yet you can’t even spell “TRUCK.”

Anyway, it would just be so awesome if you could just bring something of substance to the table other than “import bad – domestic good – imports for retards.”

XTerra, like most “gen Y” cars doesn’t work for me. But I do give toyota credit. After a decade, they finally seem to understand what a full size truck is. The t100 was a joke, the initial Tundra was week and lousy, but now the Tundra is up for notice. Only thing is the big 3 have been making these things for decades, and the guys from smyrna came with a real truck the first time. Toyota is in last place, but this time around they don’t get lapped

yes, I now about NUMMI, but that’s a joint venture.

RobCali:
Toyota conveniently highlighted all of the Tundra’s deficiencies in its brochure. No amount of third-party competitive comparisons, GM awards, or anti-Toyota jargon does a better job. It is, by every account, an inefficient truck. Some of the things I know of:

Firstly, the Tundra uses a stamped C-channel frame in the mid and rear-sections and a boxed front section. That results in higher stress at the bends of the frame, contributes to lower payload and towing capacities, and subjects the body to movement because it can’t withstand large volumes of torque (just look at the gap tolerance between the chassis and bed). To combat this, Toyota built a heavier frame. Going bald? Don’t go on medication. Just start gluing the old folicles back to your head. By the way, the frame is ALMOST as strong as the GMT-800 frame.

Secondly, the powertrain is over compensating. Although the 5.7L V8 gets rave reviews for its high acceleration, the engine is compensating for inferior design. High horsepower and torque is necessary for even being within shooting distance of Ford and GM. Toyota mated it with a six-speed transmission to assist in towing, produce higher fuel economy numbers, and aid in acceleration. But those aren’t benefits. Those are NECESSITIES. The Tundra’s only competitive advantage comes from acceleration. In order to claim best-in-class in towing capacity, Toyota offers the engine in a 2WD regular cab. There is no competition in that because there is no market for high towing capacity in 2WD, regular cab, long wheelbase 1500 trucks.

Lastly, Toyota is using a rear-end combination that would otherwise be entirely unnecessary. The standard rear axle ratio with the 5.7L is a 4.10. With a trailering package, it is 4.30! A 3.73 is industry standard. In addition, Toyota only offers a limited slip differential, not a standard locking rear differential.

Although these are smaller issues, I’ve noticed a few things that many real commercial truck users do or do not appreciate. For instance, Toyota only offers a 5-year, 60,000 mile powertrain warranty. Also, GMT-900 trucks don’t have exposed bolts in the bed. Even Ford trucks have bolts that are below the load line. The Tundra, however, has bolts protruding from the bed that get in the way of loads. And I won’t argue with you on ‘build quality’ because it is entirely subjective. But I’ll probably never understand why so many Toyota fanboys think that cheap plastic materials and spotty interior design looks good. If you can explain it to me, then please, do so.

did it post…?

there we go.

We’ll see how well the Tundra keeps selling when the rest of the cam shafts break.

Just to add, the Tundra is the worst thing to ever happen to Toyota. It may sell ok but the problems are plaguing Toyotas reputation.

.

Does anyone read the reviews on things befor they buy the, headed to head the tundra still isnt as good as the gmc. You can slap the name toyota on anything in todays market and its seen by the public as superior. It seems most on here are city boys who dont use pickups for what they are meant for. If you really really use a pick up, this article shows thats so many people dont know what they are buying and are just buying it cause of a name. And someone said Tundras go forever…..how the hell do you know…..they havent been around that long to say that.

Nobody makes pick-ups like the Big 3 do. This bullxxxx vehicle doesn’t even come close! Sure, many fools will be convinced by ghee-whiz marketing slogans and “it’s Japanese, so it must be good” crap. But at the end of the day, we’ll see who’s truck is left standing. The American pick-ups has a proven track record and they deliver, we’ve yet have to see what this one’s reputation is going to be…

Bryce: You’re talking pure sense, like a real “work-truck” user

The Tundra has higher quality, better reliability, better looks (in my opinion of course), can do everything the GM’s can do if not better (towing, carrying, etc), and will hold its value 100X better than the GM twins. So many people aren’t even remotely open to the concept that Toyota really can build a truck better than the “Americans”, when it’s truly the reality.

1c3d0g: hahahah you’re at your retarded bullxxxx yet again. Keep believing the propaganda, you clearly love it!

Bryce…the interior materials on GM cars and trucks are all identical. They are all black plastic and/or cheapo wood look plastic that wouldn’t fool a 5 year old. At least Toyotas and other makes, like Nissan, etc, have different interior designs for their different vehicles, and use materials that weren’t fished out of a Fisher Price leftover bin.

LamborghiniZ:
Where is the higher quality? Where is the better reliability? And since WHEN has Tundra beaten a domestic in resale value!? This is unproven ground for Toyota. They’ve never had a full-size truck before. And the interior design of these new trucks is great. In fact, many GM interiors as of late are remarkable.

‘You can slap the name toyota on anything in todays market and its seen by the public as superior. It seems most on here are city boys who dont use pickups for what they are meant for. If you really really use a pick up, this article shows thats so many people dont know what they are buying and are just buying it cause of a name.’ – Comment by anyclearer, posted on August3 at 5:46 pm

What’s funny is there was an article not too long ago about the effect of brand on the perception of vehicles. Evidently the second you put a Toyota badge on a Chevy Cobalt, peoples opinion of it goes up quite a bit.

By the way, at least in the late ’90s, toyota was buying a lot of the same interior stuff for camrys that the general was using in Acheivas and grand ams. Either that or it was Delco stuff.
I liked the cup hulder on a camry, because they wer the same ones on the Achieva and Grand Am.

Lambo, you’re right. The Tundra can finally run (a few miles behind, maybe) with the big boys, but it’s using components that don’t belong in a ‘half-ton’ truck. And, like I tried to iterate in my earlier post, it’s using those components just to compete. Ford, for example, has designed a truck that uses 4.30 gears and a more poweful gas engine. They limited that truck at 15,000lbs of ball/hitch trailering capacity and called it a Super Duty. The truck was engineered intelligently.

And one more thing for the Toyota crowd: GM, Ford, and even Dodge learned to rate their trucks based on decades of experience. Conservative payload and trailering estimates have dramatically reduced warranty claims. If Tundra owners aren’t aware of what the truck will actually do, Toyota will see another flood of warranty work. And, with how Toyota is marketing and how wound-up owners seem to get with their Tundra, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit. I guess it’ll be a crash-course.

“The Tundra has higher quality, better reliability, better looks (in my opinion of course)”

Well that’s not true. Every forum I’ve gone to about the Toyota Tundra has either complained about:

-Transmissions that don’t handle the power well. I’ve heard magazines as well as friends remark that the transmission wasn’t well built enough to handle all the power.
-Pending recalls over the V-8’s, camshafts, and something to do with the crew cab (unsure what exactly is causing problems)
-And pretty much what bryce said…

Compared to the F-150 and GMC Sierra, I think it looks better. I’d rather hold my bets on the F-150 though until it’s the redesigned model is released.

Is it me, or does it seem sort of picky to take 2/3rd’s of 1500 GMC Sierras, without it’s identical brother the Chevrolet Silverado, and compare that to total sales of Toyota Tundras? Seems like someone was really desperate to make a point…

jJay, you cant use forums to judge quality for any brand. Forums by nature are where people go to find solutions to problems. Few people log on to write how great the car is doing. You need to use the reliability ratings by CR or JDPower that put all the complaints through an equal system to determine which is better. Cite a reliable source not what youcan dig up at a forum because I’m sure the other side can dig up just as much, if not more, on another forum.

I work on a Toyota lot and can tell you more than some about the Tundra.

It’s good. Really, it is. All of the debate about which truck is better is from enthusiasts who have nothing better to talk about or commercial truck people who REALLY know their stuff (Bryce, that was the most intelligent post on here, thank you). For at least 90%, this truck is as good as the F150 or Silverado or Ram or even the Titan, in the same way that the majority of Americans, all biases aside, really would be happy in any one of the Camries, Accords, Fusions, and Altimas of the world.

As someone who washes the cars, I get to judge based on appearances. And man, this Tundra is such a “me-too” truck that tries so hard to make a tough statement that it just comes off as a Ram poser. (and i used to think that Rams were too bloated on steroids!) Front end aside, the exterior is pretty good, albeit on ‘roids. The Limited front end is much better than the SR5 (you wanna talk panel gaps? check this one out), which in turn is much better than the base models. That being said, the front still looks weird.

The interior is, and I’m sorry to say, atrocious. Yes, it’s functional. Yes, it does some cool stuff. But again, they tried to hard to make a statement that the design lacks any kind of visual appeal. Get one with a bench seat; it looks better than the console. You can’t argue taste, but dang.

Most people are buying these for the 5.7L. I’m serious. Probably 3 out of every 4 that I wash has that monstrosity in it (and boy, does it go!). The remaining 1 out of 4 has the 4.7 and really, is still a good engine. We’ve only sold MAYBE one or two of the base models, and we don’t have any on the lot right now.

The drivetrain feels refined…The Limited should get a decent interior, a revised front end, and call itself a Lexus. THAT would be sweet and would make the Mark LT look like a total chump.

Still an ugly ass truck

All I see in Tundra’s are suits and ties. More of an image truck then a worker. Using a Tundra for heavy work is kinda like going for a hike while wearing a pair of sandals.

But it’s not JUST forums. If you had read my comment, Driven, I remarked friends and magazines.

I apologize that I forget the name of the magazine, but I do remember they featured a comparison test on the front cover of Americas big pickups. The magazine stated it had great performance, but the transmission was incapable of holding that power (and I’m not talking about overdrive gears on the past Tundras either).

Don’t even start on CR; I consider it one of the most biased magazines out there.

Well my sisters friends cousin wrote on a forum that all trucks suck. I guess we can take that as fact since I am quoting a forum and a friend.

My point was simply listing problems you read about on a forum is bad form. For every problem you can list the opposition can find 10 items against your product on another forum. It would be a never ending meaningless list.

Do you really think Consumer Reports is the most biased of all mags? They are the only one that buys their test vehicles off lots, not supplied by the manufacturers. They also don’t advertise for the products so there is no monetary gain as with all the other test mags. I would say they are the least biased of comparison magazines.

They’re biased in terms of what they look for. To them, the safety is more important than handling; “fit and finish” (a VERY subjective thing) more important than price or functionality.

wow….there is a big flame here….lol…I had test drive all the light duty pick up trucks in the market (including the new models). I would say I like the Ford F-150 better although I really think Ford built a lot crap cars. Well…it’s just what I like, you can like something else.

Regardless of which you prefer both are built in the USA by American workers.
Toyota will sell 200,000 units this year. It appears to be a small number, but a decade back they sold zero full size pickups.
Toyota took the time to understand the USA market and made mistakes- remember the Paseo, Echo, Previa, 1st generation Prius , T-100??
But instead of keeping failures around for 8-10 years like Ford/Chrysler/GM do (until the next scheduled product cycle) , they reengineered the cars and took them out of the market in 1-2 years.
The Previa became the Sienna (a success).
The T-100 became the Tundra (a success).
The Echo became the Yaris (a success).

Toyota is on a roll globally, not just in the USA.
If you don’t like their cars, at least buy their stock.

How do you figure they will sell 200,000 this year… it’s a lofty goal and I doubt they’ll make it, unless of course they throw even more incentives at it or just give it away. How is this news and why does it matter? Oh no! Toyota beat the General’s upscale model. As it’s been said before, the Sierra and the Silverado combined sell more than the F150. Giving your vehicles away shouldn’t count as sales… I’d love to see how many they would sell if they actually sold them for profit.

As much as I despise toyota i can admit when they have built a quality machine. As a matter of fact most of their vehicles are Grade A good. But when it comes to building pick up trucks America (GM/Ford) has got Toyota beat by a mile. Bottom line is when you toyota lovers add up the sales of all the GMT900’s (Suburban, Escalade, Tahoe, Yukon, Sierra, Silverado, Avalanche) you will see that we put a good ol’ American foot up the ass of those Japs! Toyota wishes they could sale one vehicle across those many lines.

out of all the trucks out there thats my favorite one it kinda looks like a tonka

“Secondly, the powertrain is over compensating. Although the 5.7L V8 gets rave reviews for its high acceleration, the engine is compensating for inferior design.”
“But I’ll probably never understand why so many Toyota fanboys think that cheap plastic materials and spotty interior design looks good. If you can explain it to me, then please, do so.”

Bryce: Logically speaking, you didn’t say much in your argument. You pointed out some weak points in the Tundra’s frame, yet you then said that Toyota combatted the problem. Fine- Toyota combatted the problem and you no longer have a solid argument. Then you say the powertrain is over compensating for the inferior design, which makes absolutely no sense. The design aspect is an entirely subjective issue. I happen to think the interiors of the GM trucks look cheap and spotty (and I’ve owned FOUR), but in reality it has absolutely nothing to do with the powertrain and you know it. You even took the time to criticize Toyota’s design, so, in essense, you can’t say that the powertrain is overcompensating when you don’t even approve of the design in the first place.

And before you try to get off calling me a “Toyota fanboy” I happen to dislike a few vehicles that Toyota’s put out and like a few vehicles from Detroit… I wouldn’t be caught dead in a Scion or a Prius, but unlike some people I judge a car individually and from my experience with the brand. I’m not a knee-jerk, borderline xenophobe like quite a few of the people in here.

Bryce, aesthetics aside you really doesn’t have much facts to argue why the Tundra is the worse choice so shut the xxxx up already…

I completely agree with you, lanapat7. The problem with GM is that they fail to respond to trends in the industry efficiently. (e.g. Why in HELL did they keep that hideous Pontiac Aztec on the market for so long?) As far as I care, GM-philes have no right to call Toyota designs “boring” when almost every generation of GM trucks looks pretty much like the last. The public eventually gets tired of these “evolutionary redesigns” and begins to crave something that at least looks “new.”

Toyota also seems to put a lot of priority in watching the trends of the market… in this aspect, they seem to be one of the more responsible auto manufacturers out there. Examples: (1) The T100, Echo, MR-S, etc. were killed off and their replacements became hugely successful or are currently in the works. (2) Lexus is in no rush to produce the LF-A, taking time to gague consumer interest, which explains the redesign before it has even been released, a redesign that was well-recieved, by the way. But a rush to produce something like this without proper and thorough market analysis would be corporate suicide, and Toyota knows it. It’s a trap that I could easily see Lutz and GM falling into for some reason. (3) Toyota killed off it’s first plans with Hino of producing a heavy-duty Tundra in response to the public trend towards more fuel-efficient cars, and is therefore considering the possibility of producing a heavy-duty *diesel* version (Tundra 2500/3500HD) once sales hit 200,000 (this information is from both Motor Trend and Car and Driver). Toyota even has diesel/electric hybrid technology available overseas, a technology that could find its way into the U.S. Tundra soon. The list goes on.

SO… while Toyota (and a few other manufacturers both domestic and import) will recognize failures rather quickly and address them rather quickly (pulling vehicles from the lineup entirely and introducing newer, better replacements), GM’s fatal mistake is stubbornly sticking with the status quo- (1) new trucks look like older ones, (2) they rely too heavily on badge-engineering (which is becoming a huge turn-off to the car buying public [and Toyota/Lexus has even seen that]), (3) and too little is done to “freshen up” appearances mid-generation. The list could go on.

I know it’s such a shallow thing to base a truck on appearances alone, but that IS what consumers look at first. (And we all know that the Tundra has far more going for it thatn appearances, though many people on here won’t admit that )

Driven: the minute you suggest that the racist scumbags at CR or the racist scumbag of all racist scumbags, John David Power, should be trusted, your credibility vanishes like a blast from a small water on a summer afternoon in Phoenix

CR doesn’t talk about what a”problem” is. It makes no distiction between a radio knob that comes off in you hand (typical GM problem) and a rear wiper that doesn’t work in the rain, but come a 105° day, and it’s like a Peter North movie (a problem I had on a honda, along with busted head gaskets numerous other electrical problems, oil leaks and a hatchback that wouldn’t open)

Brendino: The Mark Lt is a chump, and faux-luxury
divisions suck! Also, safety ratings are a good red herring; I doubt if there are more than 10 crashes a year in which a ***** rating saves a life that a **** rating would not have

I an’t no hypocrite, and I’m never buying another toyota, but the Previa (though crap) only failed because it was too innovative

Rompn4x: Nobody who does real work uses a toyota truck

Yoda: regarding toyota quality all my relatives who once owned them all drive something else, though my little sister now owns a camry (her first toyota)

RobCali: I know, but the money paid for Toyotas goes straight to Japan. UN-American. And the brand – Japanese.
Comment by TOZO, posted on August3 at 3:50 pm

Its built here, so you’re saying also that all the employees are Japanese immigrates

Alright, Bush… Let me put it to you this way.

The money that workers are paid in factories, and the net-income of dealerships stay in America. That’s pretty much it.

The major net profits of the foreign companies go back to headquarters overseas, product design and developement. They don’t stay in the American economy, besides the wages Toyota pays and the money dealerships make from selling cars it all goes overseas.

Robcali, more or less Bryce was saying that Toyota simply covers up it’s problems, such as the inferior frame design. Although they did beef it up, that means to compete with other trucks they need a more powerful engine; and to compensate for that more powerful engine they need a six speed transmission.

CR IS biased, thats the end of this argument. What they find as a problem in a Chevrolet they won’t list as a problem in a Honda. But also they don’t know what to look for in a truck persay.

With all the pending recalls, Toyota no longer is a dependable truck; end of that argument, it comes straight from Toyota sources. Just look it up, you’ll see exactly what I’m saying.

jackjim, do you even know the definition of the word racist? If you do then please expand upon your last post and explain how they are racist. I think your credibility goes out the door when you start throwing around words with disregard for their meaning.

jJay, care to provide any actual proof CR reports problems on Chevrolets and not on Hondas? Thats a big acusation to make and not cite any sources or proof.

Or are you just pulling it out of your arse so you can write things like “CR IS biased, thats the end of this argument”? You provide no actual proof for them being biased and yet you just keep making that argument. Give us an article, website or CR issue month that makes your point beyond what you perceive in your head to be true.

Alright here’s some proof, or what I provide as proof…

One example is the Chevrolet Colorado. Although I consider it one of the worst built trucks available, they drive it around trailering and what not like a sports car, not like a truck. After all that, they claim 13.6 miles to the gallon. Biased?

Another thing is what they look for. CR doesn’t care too much about the performance numbers or trailering when it comes to trucks. But when it comes to home grown cars, they only base their tests on safety and quality, not factors such as performance, capacity, etc.. Take for example, the Honda Ridgeline, which was ranked #1 on CR’s list… although it’s fairly innovative when it comes to trucks, it doesn’t have the towing capacity, engine and doesn’t have the same market share as let’s say the F-150.

And yet I presume they rank the new Toyota Tundra as better than most competitors, even with all the pending recalls and such…

LamobrghiniZ: ahaha…Toy Ota WILL go down, you stupid bastard! They’ll NEVER, EVER beat GM, Ford or Dodge in this market. Never! We got your ass 0wned, boy!

Bush: Of course some of the money goes here to the plant workers (Texans!)and even the US dealers, but most of the money (the money that counts) will go to make Toyota bigger, fatter, & more dangerous to the rest of the industry. Toyota is an octopus sucking money from everywhere successfully. And now the quality problems are starting to increase and show, but the public hasn’t figured it out yet. I thought the Prius was a bad launch, & then the 07 Camry & Avalon set a new low. And now the Tundra lowered the bar yet again! How LOW can Toyota go, & still keep sales & profits booming?

jJay: saying “CR is biased” is like saying an egg is egg-shaped

TOZO: As long as retards keep reproducing and these dummkopfer keep thinking every U.S. branded vehicle is the 1982 Chevy Citation

1c3d0g: The article above seems to disagree with you.

Tozo, it will take decades. Look at the decades the Big3 was producing crap. It took a long time before people got fed up and started buying the competition. Now the Big3 is building good stuff but it will take decades of sub par quality Toyotas before the customers return in droves.

The only problem is Toyota isnt building complete crap so people wont run away as fast as they ran away from the Big3 which, at the time (not now), was building junk. The other problem for the Big 3 is Toyota, Honda, etc have proven they can make fast changes if they start to loose customers, something the Big3 should have done decades ago. Better late than never.

Automobile media outlets I swear are just salivating over anything that will show Toyota beating GM. Even if they have to adjust numbers and so forth to make it look that way just to get the headline. Its like they just cant wait to break any news that shows GM falling. How ridiculous and a bit antiAmerican.

Driven: you have a point — therefore my ‘82 citation comment.

jackdev, automotive “journalists,” not wanting to knock topyota is akin to rock critics continually praising U2, even though they’ve not made a decent album since Achtung Baby

The General will be ok, but there’s no room for error. imagine if the REALLY DID make lousy vehicles?

“Fine-Toyota combatted the problem and you no longer have a solid argument.”
RobCali:
Combatted the problem but didn’t eliminate it. Toyota is masking the problem by labeling the parts as bigger and better. Not just the powertrain, either. ‘TripleTech’, the brake rotor commercial, and the glorified 5.7L V8 all come to mind. My argument is like a rock.

“Then you say the powertrain is over compensating for the inferior design, which makes absolutely no sense.”
The powertrain is overcompensating. You just don’t understand my post. You should re-read it. If you do, I think that you’ll understand that my argument isn’t about interiors at all. In fact, I tried to avoid the topic. There are three sentences about the interior at the end of my post.

I personally liked the old Tundra just fine. The old bodystyle in the Crew Cab configuration was a nice truck. I’m just not a big fan of this new one. I got a chance to drive all 5 makes back to back and there were just a few things I didn’t like about the new Tundra especially the 6 speed transmission. It shifts out of first too fast which makes it feel like its falling on its face in second gear. I know acceleration figures don’t lie but the Nissan Titan just felt stronger and I thought was more fun to drive.

^^^^^tppp now that is an extremely fair and unbiased comment. thank you.

Just to quickly refute some of the “interesting” statements a few of you are making, with things like the Toyota Tundra “running forever” and being “tried and true and tested”, I just want to know how long Toyota has been selling a full-sized pickup in the US? Just wondering!

I forgot, who won truck of the year again? Oh, that’s right, NOT the Toyota Tundra! Who’s the most energy efficient full-size truck on the road? Oh, that’s right, not the Toyota Tundra!

Also, the whole premise of the article is sad and really does reach a lot to create a news story. They only take one brand of GM full-size pickup, then they only take one variant of that pickup and then and only then does the Tundra magically (maybe) beat GM in truck sales. Beat what?

I was surprised they didn’t include a subset of features like Toyota selling more trucks than Ford F-150’s that are blue, with leather seats. POINTLESS!!!!!!

How about posting this news article LeftLane: Toyota sells (has to give away) 97,000 Tundras so far in ‘07 while offering 0% interest and $5000 in rebates, while GM sells around 357,000 with almost half Toyota’s incentives. Ford sells the most full-size trucks with a total so far running at around 411,000!!!!!

When Toyota sells about 200,000 Tundras for the year and Ford and GM sell close to 1.5 MILLION of their trucks, we’ll see how this is reported in the America hating mainstream media. Sickening!

Oh, and let’s not forget that every third commercial on TV this year is a Tundra commercial. Usually of a Tundra magically doing things no one on planet Earth would do in a truck… EVER!!!! You’d think after spending the amount of money Toyota is spending on advertising and designing a whole new truck that they would have done better stealing a little more away from Ford’s older designed F-150. TOTAL TOYOTA FAILURE!!!

did you know the tundra is so powerful that if you floor it driving east the earth actually slows down. yup thats rite, with 2 of them on the same road time goes backwards too.

This is the Tundra’s awakening. Consumers using the Toyota drug now are much more likely to use it in the future. In my opinion, it would be foolish for the Big Two to ignore this threat. Unfortunately, I think that they are. I think that GM corporate is still too concerned about fighting Ford for sales. Of course, Dodge is a lost cause; Nissan is squandering its potential (and Nissan has a better truck!).

I’ve previously written about how weak Toyota is. That Toyota’s competition is Dodge and Nissan and that GM shouldn’t be concerned. And that will remain true this year, the next year, and for several years after that. The issue seems to me now, however, that GM and Ford aren’t putting enough emphasis on the more distant future. The Tundra now is only a thorn in GM and Ford’s side. They can’t let that thorn get an infection and spread. GM and Ford shouldn’t have to fight for sales against a much inferior product. The end is coming. I wish I had an answer.

Didn’t mean to post that. The end will come if GM and Ford do nothing. I think that more effective advertising would help. If I had to choose the better of two truck commercials, one GM and one Toyota, I would choose Toyota in every instance. It’s just more visually appealing. I’d love to see a GMT-900 doing things that the Tundra is doing.

Doing things like chaining a 53 foot trailer to it and then pulling it up while it hangs over a cliff? Or maybe driving up a huge upside down triangle and stopping at the other end? Ah yes, I too remember all those times I had to do stuff like that with my pickup truck.

Trust me, I’d much rather watch a commercial with the song “This Is Our Country” playing and checking out the almost 100 years of history and tradition, instead of a Toyota commercial that insults my intelligence.

I have to agree with Bryce on this one. The Ford & GM commercials sell patriotism and not the truck. They can get away with that for now, while there is inferior competition. GM & Ford could make it harder for the competition if they started touting the merits of their trucks instead of slow motion shots with “This is our country” playing. Those commercials aren’t selling the trucks, the trucks are selling themselves. Why waste the money on advertising?

I think Bryce nailed it when he noted the complacency of Ford & GM in fighting the competition in advertisements. Why not squash Toyota, Nissan, etc when you have the better product? You would think GM would learn from its mistakes in the past with car sales and not wait until there is an equal or better product before changing their focus.

Those patriotic ads wont sell many trucks once a competitor has a better product. GM & Ford need to get a new ad agency that is aggressive and not stuck on what worked back in 1980. The Big 3 have never been good at long term plannng and focus. That has to change.

Driven, I won’t disagree with you on your points, but I am positive the patriotism marketing angle is the result of a million dollar research study. If I had to guess, the bulk of pick-up truck owners are conservative, patriotic, laborers. American made and they’re proud of it. With that said, why not a dual ad campaign? Personally I like Ford’s commercials with Mike Rowe. They’re great.

dmbpearl:
Driven is right, both of the commercials are pandering to emotions. Toyota is doing it more effectively. I’d rather see that than listening to freaking John Mellencamp. They could’ve at least gotten a better, more American musician. Hell, even Ford has Toby Keith. Remember the recent commercials with a Silverado 3500 dually ‘pulling’ a train? Why not make it real? I’m sure a truck could get at least one railcar moving. Maybe even tie down a few crushed F-150’s or Tundras. There, that’s it: Silverado 3500 dually pulling a real railcar full of crushed Ford, Dodge, and Toyota trucks through a midwest corn field (E85 bump) while Hank Williams Jr. plays in the background.

Dmpearl: they try to insult your intelligence by selling you a tundra.

I’ve longs aid that toyota and honda make the best commercials. that’sm not the same thing as making the best (or even acceptable) vehicles.

Driven: I’ve said for a long time that GM is pussyfooting with its ads

Dodge has a new 1500 truck coming out next year with higher powered Hemi’s (possibley with higher hp and torque then Tundra) 6 speed autos and rumored Cummins Diesel offerings. Supposed to be a significant change in style and direction over the current one. Ford’s new F-150 is just around the corner as well, will diesel offerings and rumored to have newly revamped v8’s as well. I’m sure Ford’s still got some tricks up their sleave to not give up that number one spot without a fight. Trust me the Big 3 are paying attention to the Tundra and they will respond on the near future. Toyota entered themselves in the biggest battlefront going on in North America for the last several years and they have done an excellent job. But its time they roll up their sleaves cause its about to get dirty.

Now those two just need to come up with some good ad campains that really move you like the Toyata commecials, which they seem to have had a problem with in recent vehicle launches…or at least Dodge anyway. Toyota’s add campain on the Tundra to me seems similar to what Dodge used back in 94 and it was successfull back then and obviously successfull today.

My only point was that this entire “news article” was ill conceived. Does anyone agree with me that comparing all Toyota Tundra sales against GM sales within a division—and then a lesser still partial segment of that particular GM division—is not news? Let’s just compare apples to apples. Trucks sold by all GM divisions against trucks sold by all Toyota divisions. I guess it’s true, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

I’ve been trying to keep up with GM and the auto industry in general over the past ten years and considering the situation—whether it was self-inflicted or not—it seems GM is working miracles. Think about what they’ve done. They cheapened their products over the past few decades by selling hundreds of thousands of units to rental car companies because of terrible UAW contracts that required workers to be paid whether they built cars or not. Now that these horrible contracts are getting corrected and the company is right-sizing their work force, they should be able to correct this issue and are already drastically reducing fleet sales. This will of course increase resale value, which in the truck department are not that far off already (especially with the rebates Toyota is offering). Also, considering the dollar to the yen right now, then it’s even more of a miracle what they are doing right now just keeping pace against the Japanese automakers.

Yes, GM signed these xxxxty UAW contracts many years ago when globalization was a concept and protectionism was king, and it’s their fault that they were getting killed under them. Almost every piece of market share they lost was due to these union contracts. GM built cars with tons less money per unit (because most of it was going to fund retirees health benefits from 20 years) and because of this built cars less appealing to the masses. Those days are almost over if not completely gone.

GM sold more cars than Toyota last quarter world wide, and I look at their lineup of future cars and believe they are going to remain the world leader. They may slip a little next year like they did last year and in the first quarter of this year, but the more China and India come online, the more they will out grow Toyota. Check out the market share in those two regions by company. I’ve put my money where my mouth is and have bought a lot of GM stock so I’m hoping this is the case. I sleep well at night, so we shall see. If GM stock tanks and you read about a guy in Florida jumping off a building then it was probably me.

As far as I’m concerned, both companies advertise basically the same way, but you’re right about GM needing to go for the Toyota throat now. The Japanese companies try to do the same patriotic thing by telling us their cars are built in America and how many US employees they have. GM shows us how they won World War II and crushed the Japanese. Both give you a reason for feeling good about having one of these automobiles parked in your driveway.

Toyota can “make” the best commercial (in your opinion) if they want and spend ten times what GM spends on advertising and discounting their trucks, but that won’t change the fact that if you already have a preconceived notion that one is better than the other then the ad won’t change your mind (most of the time). The media in this country has done that service for Toyota. People are buying Toyota trucks more than ever now because they feel it’s just as American as GM (cough, cough, bullxxxx!, cough). The news media is the only reason for this, not advertising. Good advertising can make you think you need that Girls Gone Wild DVD or convince a retard that a ginsu knife cutting a tin can is worth $19.95, but not whether or not this country needs a manufacturing base and domestic auto industry. That’s up to the media.

With that said, I do agree that GM needs to do more of a side-by-side comparison like they are doing with Saturn cars. Especially since we all know GM trucks out perform Toyota trucks in most ways (including fuel economy). So, okay, I concede to you that. Get off you’re ass General and go for the throat. Toyota is using these ridiculous rebates while the Yen to dollar is in their favor and GM should fight back. Don’t just give them trucks like you did cars without a fight.

110 comments? xxxxing hicks.

dmbpearl: good poust, but it shuld be “media are,” not “media is.”

112 posts now, deantj. make that 113.
Hicks care about trucks

dmbpearl:
You make very valid points. It’s good that you appreciate GM advertising. GM wouldn’t spend millions on a crappy marketing campaign. It seems to me that the advertising could be more effective, though. Don’t you think that that would help? It certainly wouldn’t be a hinderance. Perception can change. I remember reading statistics on a particular subject once. It said that a certain substance causes annually (I don’t remember the real numbers, but they were gory and dramatic) $2 billion in property damage, 250,000 deaths, is the number one cause of greenhouse gasses, and is found in nearly every home in the U.S. At the end of a long string of facts it revealed that the substance is water. I’m using this as an analogy because I know that anything can be put under any type of light. Against all odds, even poor perception, GM can change public opinion. After all, people are still buying GM vehicles.

Off topic: I’ve been wondering lately if Toyota’s marketing may backfire on itself. They’re trying to drape themselves in the American flag. Toyota became successful in part to the premise: Japanese is good. Toyota is Japanese. Therefore Toyota is good. If Toyota, in the public mind, is no longer Japanese, will it continue to be good?

but getting back to the title of the article “tundra to topple the GMC Sierra” how bout they compare tundra sales to the sales of GMT900’s then see who is toppling who??

LETS SEE WHAT THE RESULTS IS GONNA BE LIKE IN TERMS OF SALES.

BOTH OF THEM ARE NICE TRUCKS, BUT ONE WILL EXCEL MORE THAN THE OTHE….WHO WILL THAT BE AH AHHHHHHH!!……LETS WAIT AND SEE.

EXACTLY masteryoda… all the sierra is is a rebadged silverado, which sells 10 times the amount the sierra does. Same goes for colorado/canyon… how many canyons do you see on the road in comparison? not many. Do the japs think we are that stupid?