Off topic: I’ve been wondering lately if Toyota’s marketing may backfire on itself. They’re trying to drape themselves in the American flag. Toyota became successful in part to the premise: Japanese is good. Toyota is Japanese. Therefore Toyota is good. If Toyota, in the public mind, is no longer Japanese, will it continue to be good?

I’ve been trying to keep up with GM and the auto industry in general over the past ten years and considering the situation—whether it was self-inflicted or not—it seems GM is working miracles. Think about what they’ve done. They cheapened their products over the past few decades by selling hundreds of thousands of units to rental car companies because of terrible UAW contracts that required workers to be paid whether they built cars or not. Now that these horrible contracts are getting corrected and the company is right-sizing their work force, they should be able to correct this issue and are already drastically reducing fleet sales. This will of course increase resale value, which in the truck department are not that far off already (especially with the rebates Toyota is offering). Also, considering the dollar to the yen right now, then it’s even more of a miracle what they are doing right now just keeping pace against the Japanese automakers.

Yes, GM signed these xxxxty UAW contracts many years ago when globalization was a concept and protectionism was king, and it’s their fault that they were getting killed under them. Almost every piece of market share they lost was due to these union contracts. GM built cars with tons less money per unit (because most of it was going to fund retirees health benefits from 20 years) and because of this built cars less appealing to the masses. Those days are almost over if not completely gone.

GM sold more cars than Toyota last quarter world wide, and I look at their lineup of future cars and believe they are going to remain the world leader. They may slip a little next year like they did last year and in the first quarter of this year, but the more China and India come online, the more they will out grow Toyota. Check out the market share in those two regions by company. I’ve put my money where my mouth is and have bought a lot of GM stock so I’m hoping this is the case. I sleep well at night, so we shall see. If GM stock tanks and you read about a guy in Florida jumping off a building then it was probably me.

As far as I’m concerned, both companies advertise basically the same way, but you’re right about GM needing to go for the Toyota throat now. The Japanese companies try to do the same patriotic thing by telling us their cars are built in America and how many US employees they have. GM shows us how they won World War II and crushed the Japanese. Both give you a reason for feeling good about having one of these automobiles parked in your driveway.

Toyota can “make” the best commercial (in your opinion) if they want and spend ten times what GM spends on advertising and discounting their trucks, but that won’t change the fact that if you already have a preconceived notion that one is better than the other then the ad won’t change your mind (most of the time). The media in this country has done that service for Toyota. People are buying Toyota trucks more than ever now because they feel it’s just as American as GM (cough, cough, bullxxxx!, cough). The news media is the only reason for this, not advertising. Good advertising can make you think you need that Girls Gone Wild DVD or convince a retard that a ginsu knife cutting a tin can is worth $19.95, but not whether or not this country needs a manufacturing base and domestic auto industry. That’s up to the media.

With that said, I do agree that GM needs to do more of a side-by-side comparison like they are doing with Saturn cars. Especially since we all know GM trucks out perform Toyota trucks in most ways (including fuel economy). So, okay, I concede to you that. Get off you’re ass General and go for the throat. Toyota is using these ridiculous rebates while the Yen to dollar is in their favor and GM should fight back. Don’t just give them trucks like you did cars without a fight.

I’ve longs aid that toyota and honda make the best commercials. that’sm not the same thing as making the best (or even acceptable) vehicles.

Driven: I’ve said for a long time that GM is pussyfooting with its ads

I think Bryce nailed it when he noted the complacency of Ford & GM in fighting the competition in advertisements. Why not squash Toyota, Nissan, etc when you have the better product? You would think GM would learn from its mistakes in the past with car sales and not wait until there is an equal or better product before changing their focus.

Those patriotic ads wont sell many trucks once a competitor has a better product. GM & Ford need to get a new ad agency that is aggressive and not stuck on what worked back in 1980. The Big 3 have never been good at long term plannng and focus. That has to change.

Trust me, I’d much rather watch a commercial with the song “This Is Our Country” playing and checking out the almost 100 years of history and tradition, instead of a Toyota commercial that insults my intelligence.

I’ve previously written about how weak Toyota is. That Toyota’s competition is Dodge and Nissan and that GM shouldn’t be concerned. And that will remain true this year, the next year, and for several years after that. The issue seems to me now, however, that GM and Ford aren’t putting enough emphasis on the more distant future. The Tundra now is only a thorn in GM and Ford’s side. They can’t let that thorn get an infection and spread. GM and Ford shouldn’t have to fight for sales against a much inferior product. The end is coming. I wish I had an answer.

I forgot, who won truck of the year again? Oh, that’s right, NOT the Toyota Tundra! Who’s the most energy efficient full-size truck on the road? Oh, that’s right, not the Toyota Tundra!

Also, the whole premise of the article is sad and really does reach a lot to create a news story. They only take one brand of GM full-size pickup, then they only take one variant of that pickup and then and only then does the Tundra magically (maybe) beat GM in truck sales. Beat what?

I was surprised they didn’t include a subset of features like Toyota selling more trucks than Ford F-150′s that are blue, with leather seats. POINTLESS!!!!!!

How about posting this news article LeftLane: Toyota sells (has to give away) 97,000 Tundras so far in ’07 while offering 0% interest and $5000 in rebates, while GM sells around 357,000 with almost half Toyota’s incentives. Ford sells the most full-size trucks with a total so far running at around 411,000!!!!!

When Toyota sells about 200,000 Tundras for the year and Ford and GM sell close to 1.5 MILLION of their trucks, we’ll see how this is reported in the America hating mainstream media. Sickening!

“Then you say the powertrain is over compensating for the inferior design, which makes absolutely no sense.”
The powertrain is overcompensating. You just don’t understand my post. You should re-read it. If you do, I think that you’ll understand that my argument isn’t about interiors at all. In fact, I tried to avoid the topic. There are three sentences about the interior at the end of my post.

jackdev, automotive “journalists,” not wanting to knock topyota is akin to rock critics continually praising U2, even though they’ve not made a decent album since Achtung Baby

The General will be ok, but there’s no room for error. imagine if the REALLY DID make lousy vehicles?

The only problem is Toyota isnt building complete crap so people wont run away as fast as they ran away from the Big3 which, at the time (not now), was building junk. The other problem for the Big 3 is Toyota, Honda, etc have proven they can make fast changes if they start to loose customers, something the Big3 should have done decades ago. Better late than never.

TOZO: As long as retards keep reproducing and these dummkopfer keep thinking every U.S. branded vehicle is the 1982 Chevy Citation

One example is the Chevrolet Colorado. Although I consider it one of the worst built trucks available, they drive it around trailering and what not like a sports car, not like a truck. After all that, they claim 13.6 miles to the gallon. Biased?

Another thing is what they look for. CR doesn’t care too much about the performance numbers or trailering when it comes to trucks. But when it comes to home grown cars, they only base their tests on safety and quality, not factors such as performance, capacity, etc.. Take for example, the Honda Ridgeline, which was ranked #1 on CR’s list… although it’s fairly innovative when it comes to trucks, it doesn’t have the towing capacity, engine and doesn’t have the same market share as let’s say the F-150.

And yet I presume they rank the new Toyota Tundra as better than most competitors, even with all the pending recalls and such…

Or are you just pulling it out of your arse so you can write things like “CR IS biased, thats the end of this argument”? You provide no actual proof for them being biased and yet you just keep making that argument. Give us an article, website or CR issue month that makes your point beyond what you perceive in your head to be true.

The money that workers are paid in factories, and the net-income of dealerships stay in America. That’s pretty much it.

The major net profits of the foreign companies go back to headquarters overseas, product design and developement. They don’t stay in the American economy, besides the wages Toyota pays and the money dealerships make from selling cars it all goes overseas.

Robcali, more or less Bryce was saying that Toyota simply covers up it’s problems, such as the inferior frame design. Although they did beef it up, that means to compete with other trucks they need a more powerful engine; and to compensate for that more powerful engine they need a six speed transmission.

CR IS biased, thats the end of this argument. What they find as a problem in a Chevrolet they won’t list as a problem in a Honda. But also they don’t know what to look for in a truck persay.

With all the pending recalls, Toyota no longer is a dependable truck; end of that argument, it comes straight from Toyota sources. Just look it up, you’ll see exactly what I’m saying.

Its built here, so you’re saying also that all the employees are Japanese immigrates

CR doesn’t talk about what a”problem” is. It makes no distiction between a radio knob that comes off in you hand (typical GM problem) and a rear wiper that doesn’t work in the rain, but come a 105° day, and it’s like a Peter North movie (a problem I had on a honda, along with busted head gaskets numerous other electrical problems, oil leaks and a hatchback that wouldn’t open)

Brendino: The Mark Lt is a chump, and faux-luxury
divisions suck! Also, safety ratings are a good red herring; I doubt if there are more than 10 crashes a year in which a ***** rating saves a life that a **** rating would not have

I an’t no hypocrite, and I’m never buying another toyota, but the Previa (though crap) only failed because it was too innovative

Rompn4x: Nobody who does real work uses a toyota truck

Yoda: regarding toyota quality all my relatives who once owned them all drive something else, though my little sister now owns a camry (her first toyota)

Toyota also seems to put a lot of priority in watching the trends of the market… in this aspect, they seem to be one of the more responsible auto manufacturers out there. Examples: (1) The T100, Echo, MR-S, etc. were killed off and their replacements became hugely successful or are currently in the works. (2) Lexus is in no rush to produce the LF-A, taking time to gague consumer interest, which explains the redesign before it has even been released, a redesign that was well-recieved, by the way. But a rush to produce something like this without proper and thorough market analysis would be corporate suicide, and Toyota knows it. It’s a trap that I could easily see Lutz and GM falling into for some reason. (3) Toyota killed off it’s first plans with Hino of producing a heavy-duty Tundra in response to the public trend towards more fuel-efficient cars, and is therefore considering the possibility of producing a heavy-duty *diesel* version (Tundra 2500/3500HD) once sales hit 200,000 (this information is from both Motor Trend and Car and Driver). Toyota even has diesel/electric hybrid technology available overseas, a technology that could find its way into the U.S. Tundra soon. The list goes on.

SO… while Toyota (and a few other manufacturers both domestic and import) will recognize failures rather quickly and address them rather quickly (pulling vehicles from the lineup entirely and introducing newer, better replacements), GM’s fatal mistake is stubbornly sticking with the status quo- (1) new trucks look like older ones, (2) they rely too heavily on badge-engineering (which is becoming a huge turn-off to the car buying public [and Toyota/Lexus has even seen that]), (3) and too little is done to “freshen up” appearances mid-generation. The list could go on.

I know it’s such a shallow thing to base a truck on appearances alone, but that IS what consumers look at first. (And we all know that the Tundra has far more going for it thatn appearances, though many people on here won’t admit that )

Bryce: Logically speaking, you didn’t say much in your argument. You pointed out some weak points in the Tundra’s frame, yet you then said that Toyota combatted the problem. Fine- Toyota combatted the problem and you no longer have a solid argument. Then you say the powertrain is over compensating for the inferior design, which makes absolutely no sense. The design aspect is an entirely subjective issue. I happen to think the interiors of the GM trucks look cheap and spotty (and I’ve owned FOUR), but in reality it has absolutely nothing to do with the powertrain and you know it. You even took the time to criticize Toyota’s design, so, in essense, you can’t say that the powertrain is overcompensating when you don’t even approve of the design in the first place.

And before you try to get off calling me a “Toyota fanboy” I happen to dislike a few vehicles that Toyota’s put out and like a few vehicles from Detroit… I wouldn’t be caught dead in a Scion or a Prius, but unlike some people I judge a car individually and from my experience with the brand. I’m not a knee-jerk, borderline xenophobe like quite a few of the people in here.

Toyota is on a roll globally, not just in the USA.
If you don’t like their cars, at least buy their stock.