Gettelfinger screwed the pooch weeks ago.

Let them fail, think about it Cerebus was a receipiant of some of the intial bailout money in Oct, and now they want more via GM,GMAC??? They had the chance to be competitive and lost. The wouldn’t listen to consumers wishes on smaller hatchbacks, and look at their history about Hybrids and words spoken. As of 2004-05 All 3 companies felt Hybrids have no place in the US market along ith smaller sized european model cars, and whats most popular now? Minis, Fits, Smarts, Suzukis come on.

Ron Gettelfinger has shown that the UAW is not the big bad monster everyone thinks they are. They have given back before and they’re still giving today.

I hope that the people who put the UAW down will admit their opinion about them may have been wrong.

D3 unwillingness to build reliable cars got them in this mess ! THATS IT !

The Big three having to make concessions on their product because of the cost to manufacture their vehicles over the competition helped them into this mess. The union has some of the blame on this Tripleonefive. and heck, their products problem is hardly reliability, it’s more of a quality (RE: cheap interior materials) and efficiency of the business model issue.

Cheap interior material is correct but people will overlook that if the car wouldnt break down so often
D3 is dead and I hope they dont get a dime

1115

Cheap material is bad, but with GM’s reputation they have that AND bad quality. I love GM, but honestly they didn’t live up to expectations before, and now? I just don’t know.

How about we level the playing field?

Pay for healthcare like what the Japs and Germs and S. Koreans do for their autoworkers?

How about those countries’ markets allow US cars to be sold there?

I’m sick of this **** that it’s the union’s fault.

It’s the goddam Wall St a-holes who took in bad mortgage securities, and the damn credit market is dried up!

Simonc- Are you serious? If they weren’t all finally going to be out of jobs, and on the streets with no other job skills, he never ever would have made those concessions. Open your eyes, he didn’t do this last week, or two weeks ago, or any other time when they’ve been struggling in the last year until the Union was affected, as opposed to just the company.

The UAW said they would “suspend” the job banks, not “eliminate”. In this case, it’s not necessarily permanent. It’s “we made it sound permanent but we reserve the right to do it again at some time down the road”.

In my company management was informed last week that salaries were frozen for 2009. We were also told our variable pay (performance bonus) was also under review. Somebody asked the brilliant question about our bargaining unit (union) members and whether their variable pay was also under review. The answer was no, because it’s guaranteed in their contract no matter what. As is a pay rate increase for 2009. And undoubtedly despite managements best efforts to curtail it there will be overtime just because sh*t happens.

DBro is right, the union doesn’t come out from behind its rhetoric unless it absolutely has to.

UAW agrees? They have a choice?/! I don’t blame the workers; I blame the system. I know people who work at Toyota’s plants in Kentucky, Texas and Cambridge Ontario Canada(management, engineers and on the line), a few are ex UAW, never hear any complaints from them – they love their job.

DB9

FACT!!!
Japanese Auto Makers can pay 12, that’s “12″ workers for every 1, “THAT”S ONE” U.S. factory Union Worker, FACT!!! the minimum a union worker will make is $33.00 per hr. tag on $18.00 to $24.00 in benefits per hr. and that’s including money for “THE JOB BANKS”, where you have to be at for 8 hours a day siting around so you can still get 95% of your pay!!!

For all you UAW member’s don’t forget US DEALER, YES THE ONE’S THAT SELL THE CARS AND TRUCKS YOU BUILT READ THIS WEB SITE DAILY, AND TO HEAR YOU SAY… THE THING’S YOU SAY, AND US TRYING TO FIND EVERY WAY POSSIBLE TO STAY IN BUSINESS, NOT TO SAY TRY TO MAKE A SELL…

IF WE CAN NOT SELL THE CARS YOU MAKE, AND WE ARE FORCE TO CLOSE OUR DOORS, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO??? SUPPLY AND DEMAND… NO ONE IS BUYING, CAN YOU SEE THE NEWS, THE BIGGEST UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN YEARS… HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO SUPPORT YOU, IF WE HARDLY SUPPORT OUR SELFS!!!

THINGS ARE BAD, SANTA IS NOT COMING TO TOWN FOR THE HOLIDAYS!!!

YOU SAY YOU ARE SICK OF THE BASHING THE UNIONS…
WE ARE SICK TO HEAR HOW GOOD YOU HAVE IT, WAY’LL WE CAN’T SELL THE CARS YOU MAKE,

THE AVERAGE OVER HEADS FOR A “SMALL” DEALER ANY WERE IN THE U.S. IS $100.000 A MONTH, HOW MUSH YOU THINK WE MAKE IN SELLS, PARTS, SERVICE, DID YOU KNOW SOME BANKS PAY US IN 60 DAYS AFTER A SOLD CAR ROLLS OF THE LOT, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO TELL OUR EMPLOYEES? SORRY CHUCK, YOU GET PAYED IN 60 DAYS FOR WASHING THAT CAR, OR SELLING IT, OR CHECKING IT OVER BEFORE IT WAS GOOD TO SALE…YOU THINK YOU HAVE BILLS TO PAY, WE STILL HAVE A ELECTRICITY BILL, WATER, SOME OF US LEASE THE BUILDING WE ARE IN, WE HAVE STATE AND LOCAL TAX TO PAY MONTHLY,

DO YOU SEE THE BIG PICTURE?
DO YOU SEE THE MESS WE ARE ALL IN, CAN YOU? AND IT IS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, NOT JUST IN SUNNY CALIFORNIA, NOT JUST TEXAS, NOT JUST FLORIDA, YOU CAN NOT DENIED THAT THE CONTRACTS OF THE UAW HAS NO PART IN THIS MESS, YOU CAN NOT…

SO ” I ” A PART OWNER OF A DEALER GROUP, SMALL-SMALL PART, BUT STILL PART OWNER, HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO FILL, HEARING YOU SAY YOU HAVE NO PART IN THIS… HOW?

And the company I work for let’s any employee buy in, where do you think I spent the money form my refi of my house, to bad can’t get it back right now…

I love all of the arguments that GM & Ford just don’t build cars that people want. They should build small cars… that is what people want. They should build Hybrids… that is what people want. BS. Has everyone forgotten that for over 30 years full size trucks have dominated in sales numbers. It has only been in the last few months that trucks lost their luster just a little bit. Even so, there have still been about 1.3 million new full sized trucks sold in the US through the first 10 months of this year. How did that happen if people don’t want to buy them? The top two best selling models this year will be full sized V8 powered trucks. In the face of records gas prices big V8 gas guzzling pieces of Americana still sell the best. I wonder how many they would sell if people actually wanted to buy trucks. Folks, this is the USA not the EU. Americans like big cars & trucks. We always have. We have big distances to cover and we want to be comfortable. This current cyclical slowdown has much more to do with lack of consumer confidence and lack of financing options than is does with a shabby product offering from the domestics.

Home sales are way off… does that mean that we just don’t build house in America that people want to live in? Electronic sales are way off… I guess that the Asians just don’t build TV’s that we want to watch? Shoe Pavillion is closing… I guess nobody wanted to wear name brand shoes at discount prices.

As far as Hybrids go, they are truly the biggest scam perpetrated on the American public since the carpet sweeper. They are highly overrated. For everyone that considers the Europeans a progressive society that has better ideas than Americans, take a look at what they drive. Clean burning, efficient, diesel powered cars that get well over 50 MPG. For the average Hybrid driver, the idea of driving a Hybrid has much more to do with a feeling that they are doing something for the enviroment than it does with saving money. Think about it, Hybrids are very expensive and really don’t pencil economically. I guess my favorite argument from Hybrid drivers is that they are doing something now for the future generations. My question is… really? What about all of those spent batteries in the Hybrids… what are the future generations to do with all of those batteries?

As for letting the automakers fail… that is a terrible idea. First off, that is a popular idea only with people that resent Big Business for all that it has while at the same time forgetting all that Big Business really does. They are the same people that think profit is a bad word. The same folks that think that wealthy people should be taxed until they have the same amount of money in their checking account as the non-wealthy. The people that are botherd by an executive flying in a corporate jet rather than a commercial jet… as if that really had anything to do with the core problem the industry faces. If the domestics were to fail many people would be out of jobs. That is one direct effect that those workers would feel. Further all of the businesses directly connected to the automakers would begin to fail. It would create a vortex that would eventually consume many businesses that most people don’t even consider at all connected to the auto industry. Read up on what really happened during the Great Depression and also what went on in the 20’s leading up to the Great Depression. It is very similar to our current situation.

One final point to set the record straight, foriegn automakers that build their cars here are not American automakers. They are foreign businesses doing business in America. Sure the salaries they pay stay here but the profits they make go overseas and are used to improve their companies, infrastructures and homelands. Make no mistake about it, they will always over the long term take home more in profit than the salaries they pay the American worker. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be here. So buying a Tundra built in the Texas is in no way equal to buying an F150 built in Dearborn. In fact, it would be better to purchase a Fusion made in Mexico than to buy an Accord made in the USA. People of America, it is time to support our American businesses. It is time to support your local businesses. It is time to support America and be proud that we are Americans. No is not the time to be bitter and reluctant to help. We can get through this if we all do our part. That is what sets America apart from the rest of the world.

“An unemployed worker in the job bank typically makes close to full wage and receives full benefits.” Holy s***!!!!! I’d like to sleep in, play video games, and go to the bar all day every day and still make $20-$25 per hour with full health benefits!! Christ! If you’re unemployed, that means that you find a freakin’ job to pay the bills!!

The whole job bank concept is one of the largest rapings of the Big Three ever. It costs the automakers BILLIONS every year, and its been going on for decades, thanks to union extortion tactics. NONE of the foreign automakers or their U.S. transplants have job banks with nearly full pay. NONE.

These fat-assed congressmen should be asking more about that B.S., and grilling the UAW, rather than asking why the CEO’s used a private jet to get to Washington. And while they’re at it, they should be asking about what that $150 BILLION to AIG will be used for. Congress required detailed plans from the Big Three for their $50 billion LOAN (not grant) to help save 2.5 million jobs, yet AIG gets $150 billion (one company!) with no questions asked, no plan, no CEO scruitiny, nothing. And the media laughs it up, trying to portray the Big Three executives as stupid beggers. This country is really pathetic sometimes. With this kind of behavior, no wonder most of the world hates us.

The Japanese government bailed out Mitsubishi a few years ago, with BILLIONS of their tax payer’s money, and that company was in far worse shape than the Big Three, and no one here made fun of them, or compained about a damned thing. Freakin idiots.

bigjimid – $20-25 an hour?? Try $50 per hour, plus $20 per hour worth of full benefits (full healthcare coverage for everyone even remotely related to you, with no co-pays, no deductibles, no limits (hell, they probably cover vetinary bills for your pets), full pension, you name it. The AVERAGE all-in hourly wage including benefits for a Big Three UAW line worker is $70 per hour. THAT is a problem.

I think this story just goes to show just how pervasive the burden of the UAW is on automakers. Does anyone here work for an employer that will lay you off but basically still pay you your salary and benefits? I wonder what’s the total number of workers in the job bank and how long, on average, they stay there. I also wonder if they have the audacity to moan about the fact that they’re losing their job of not having a job.

I think it’s also informative that the retiree healthcare trust has an $80 billion burden on the Big Three, and it was negotiated into the labor contract ONLY LAST YEAR. Was the writing not on the wall last year? I don’t know who’s more to blame for that one, the automakers for agreeing to it, or the UAW for doing what they can to make sure the Big Three stay on their knees.

How much would U.S. automakers save if they just paid for UAW wages and standard health insurance, disability insurance, and whatever else *normal* employers have to pay, and just pitched all the fringe benefits that no one, except UAW, seems to get.

Z06, I was giving them the benefit out the doubt for the lowest possible pay. But yes, the highest pay available is in the $50 range with full benefits, which totals out to more than triple, almost four times, what I make.

scarface – “I also wonder if they have the audacity to moan about the fact that they’re losing their job of not having a job.” Lol, I do too. “You mean I’ve gotta lift a box today!? Damn!”

The Americans job in today’s global economy is to import goods and consume (by any means necessary) while exporting inflation. The goal being the transfer of wealth.

LLN: “In a bid secure billions in low interest loans …”
You need a “to.”

Pro-union though I may be, the reality is that the Big Three can’t afford their labor situation.

tripleonefive: “D3 unwillingness to build reliable cars got them in this mess.” WHAT??
JakeK66: “their products’ problem is hardly reliability.” You’re right.

Lau: “GM’s reputation they have that AND bad quality.” When will the General shake that reputation. Anyone who’s paying attention knows it’s no longer deserved, but who’s paying attention?

rds130: job banks need not be a bad idea. They are, when there’s no real hope of demand swinging up soon.

DB9: “I know people who work at Toyota’s plants in Kentucky, Texas and Cambridge Ontario Canada(management, engineers and on the line), a few are ex UAW, never hear any complaints from them – they love their job.” That’s why Toyota workers will not go UAW. Nothing to gain.

sequoiatrader: “This current cyclical slowdown has much more to do with lack of consumer confidence and lack of financing options than is does with a shabby product offering from the domestics.”
You’re about as smart as your name suggests you are.

“For the average Hybrid driver, the idea of driving a Hybrid has much more to do with a feeling that they are doing something for the enviroment than it does with saving money.”

again, very smart.

“buying a Tundra built in the Texas is in no way equal to buying an F150 built in Dearborn.” For one, the F-150 is a much better truck.

The Accord is better than the Fusion.