Strike! Strike! Strike! I could be wrong here, but I don’t see how that helps UAW members to keep a job and get PAID for it.

Good, put them both (and GM_Sales) out of their misery.

9 days of negotiating. Wow, that’s pretty diplomatic. Thank God we don’t fight wars that way. 9 days, and they want to strike. Every UAW leader should be in prison.

400Horse – Happy now?

Strike! Then send the company into a downward spiral and end it all for good.

The UAW is like a cancer that needs to be excised in toto. KEeping this organization of fat TV-obsessed middle american lardies going with constant concessions is like giving a palliative patient a feeding tube and ongoing chemotherapy. Pull the plug and get over the short-term economic consequences of GM’s downfall. They had nothing to offer anyways.

“In every case, our members went the extra mile to find reasonable solutions”

Solutions for problems caused by the UAW in the first place.

UAW = uneducated ass wipes. Idiots just don’t get the havoc they have caused an American manufacturing icon.
Unions are unneeded in the 21st century.

Unions are anachronism at this point in society, as foreign transplants show (Honda, BMW, MB, Toyota). However, how do you put a tag on poor management? We all know that health care cost GM about $1,200 per car. How much per car cost them models they could never sell: Aztec, Malibu, GTO, Ion?Unfortunately it is not all that black and white. Lets assume for a second that UAW will go away and GM (or the rest of former big 3) can re-negotiate with workers: does anyone thinks that they will be as good employers as transplants? Do we have any evidence of that?

Fantastic. GM finally gets their quality up approaching where it should be, and now the UAW marks them for strike. The one decent U.S. car company will go under. God bless the U.S.A.

It’s a free market. Manage correctly, or die a forgettable death. GM allowed themselselves to get to this position, now they’re paying for it. Somewhere along the line, someone in upper management should have grown a set of balls and threatened to xxxx the whole UAW as hard as possible if this continued. Instead, they’re eating the UAW’s xxxx daily to keep everyone happy.

very happy piablo i dont picket till friday if it last that long jackass, management brought this on themselves by making xxxxty cars and trucks and tried to push it on the union

400horseSS,
I read this in another article on the strike: “Ron Gettelfinger: ‘We did everything possible to negotiate a new contract, including an unprecedented agreement to stay at the bargaining table nine days past the expiration of the previous agreement.’”

You’re mimicking his statement exactly. Making yourself out to be a victim. It’s hard for me to argue that buying American products supports American jobs when those same Americans don’t even want to work. The only benefit I have is that it’s supporting my own job.

They need to go ahead and produce every car somewhere else. To hell with the UAW

Just tack on another $3,000 so the UAW can get more benefits and upper management can get their bonuses. Isn’t that what it boils down to? Honestly, does the UAW thing they are underpaid lol?!?! Then they can slowly dissolve away, and we won’t have to worry about either one of them anymore.

End of the Unions is now in sight.

all i hear is this free market, capitalism, xxxx wich means ship all jobs to the cheapest 3rd world country and try to sell here, complete bs

I think GM got some great news: they don’t have to shut down any plants to reduce unsold backlog. The strike does not affect plants in Canada, Mexico, Australia and Europe, so they can test how well new models sell.

time to replace teachers on strike with mexicanns too

UAW doing what they know best by forcing the hand of GM. Autonut has a point. GM has a lot of unsold vehicles on lots. Dealers can sell through 2007 models and a few 2008 models that were produced before today.

“all i hear is this free market, capitalism, xxxx wich means ship all jobs to the cheapest 3rd world country and try to sell here, complete bs”

The damn thing’s been happening even to third world countries due to China. That’s the way it’s going and it’s not going to stop anytime soon. At the end of the day it’s all business and if American manufacturers have to import cars to US to stay in the game then so be it. You talk about how management makes crap products and that you are forced to build it. Basically you just stated that you can’t get a job anywhere else so you’re stuck in a ****ty job. It’s not their fault that you’re an incompetent overpaid employee. Remember, you are nothing but an employee, quit thinking like you own the company and have the power to make up your own salary. ****… a bunch of lazy asses complaining is BS completed.

And this is the bull**** GM has to deal with that Toy doesnt. Very fair indeed

I just hope GM doesn’t give in. Cut the loss’ and take the lashing. SOmeone need to stand up to the uaw. I hope Ford and Chrysler have the balls to do the same.

400horseSS- Capitalism is what made the U.S. what it is today. Without it, we wouldn’t be at the top of the heap. Businesses are there to make money- bottom line. That’s what anyone who incorporates wants to do. By shipping low paying jobs overseas, the market is forcing people to specialize more in order to compete for better jobs. Everyone is pissed at the unions because they’ve altered this process by blackmail. People screwing in a nut shouldn’t be making $80,000 a year. It’s something that needs to be corrected and that’s why it gets so much attention. As for the teacher comment, they are one of the specialized fields.

Commodore, Toyota provides very well its employees in Japan and I did not read gripes from US workers either (I may not read it but gripes in US may exists). As a matter of fact it is extremely difficult to get a job at Toyota in Japan and it is involves tests etc. You don’t; become #1 in the world wide sales because your employees are second rate.

The UAW is a bunch of morons. They will all be unemployed before long. I just feel bad for GM – they have been making a lot of good moves lately. I look forward to the UAW idiots to try this with Cerberus – my money says Cerberus will tell them to go to hell.

we dont make 80k we make 50k i just wanted to point that out management make 80k and i know of noone just screwing a nut, i would be nice to see someone come work a summer as a temp to see what really happens then that person could run their mouth

I wonder if some of you all who bash assemly work have ever done it, it is not always easy and yes, can be quite boring. In my experience, the folks that work and repair the vehicles and parts usually have the best ideas for improvement and are always the real experts.

I hope for a day that the UAW can represent the workers who want to work and not the ones who work the system.

If the UAW doesn’t want the job anymore, there is certainly someone out there willing to do it for cheaper.

Hoosier hero: I call BS. Nobody’s is getting $80K for screwing in a nut.

Fletch: you’re taling the most sense, but I think teh UAW is going to have to get realistic about some things, or GM will break the union.

I worked in a cable-swaging plant, and figured out quickly that I dodn’t want to spend my life doing that. But, somebody’s gotta do it, and that should be paid well.

autonut: The UAW has failed several times at organizing toyota in KY. The workers there seem to like the pay and benefits, and think that unionizing meens guys from detroit will take their jobs

I think the previous Ford article sums up what is happening to companies sticktly because of the UAW.

400Horse, even $50k and lifetime health care is overpaid for a blue collar job in Michigan (low cost of living state). The health care and salary is equivalent to making well over $100k in LA. Anywhere else that would be an unheard of salary for a blue collar job only needing a high school education.

The funny thing is everyone involved with the UAW thinks they deserve all those benefits and an above average salary (based on location, skill set & education). And the UAW doesn’t see that slowly killing the Big3 will mean no jobs for anyone.

If the Big3 is that bad of an employer why not find another job? We all know why, its because you know you wont get anywhere near the pay and benefits anywhere else and you will work longer hours to get less anywhere else.

The U.S. automakers estimate they pay $25 to $30 more an hour to American factory workers than Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co. do at their U.S. plants. Just look at the contracts. With benefits UAW workers are definitely up there in that range. I’m calling anit-BS on myself lol.

Driven’s on the money, although I think 400horse and jackjim’s right to some degree–working the line I’m sure is more complicated than screwing in a nut, and maybe a summer temp would have a rough start in the plant, but the point is–could you teach one of us your job in a summer? less than a summer?

I’m not saying you’re stupid, by any means, but if labor is not that specialized, and if the gains had by seniority don’t translate into a better product that the market will pay more for (e.g., I’ll pay more to have a brain surgeon with 25 years of experience operate on me vs. a first-year resident), then there your pay and benefits have to be held in check.

I noticed from the article that the UAW has focused on its past concessions in order to give the impression that UAW is doing its part to make an agreement now. My response is, “Who cares?” I don’t buy that making past concessions somehow gives the union the right to not make concessions now. Sure, there’s a give and take between management and staff, but to the UAW: if you decide to earn a living and provide for a family by working for a company in a business with dying market share, innovation, and business sense, you will have to make concessions for as long as that continues. And you can’t just say “enough is enough” just because times have been bad for a long time. Enough may never be enough.

autonutt – http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070828/AUTO01/708280352/1148

Toyota should thank the Japanese gods for not being unionized here in America.$20 an hour competitve advantage for Toy over GM is pretty comfy

I don’t see a thing that a UAW worker can do that a robot can’t, tell them all to go find the better jobs they all think they can get and mechanize the whole factory. That will fix the retirement problems and health care issues. Most line workers work hand and hand with a robot why not just take the worker out of the equation and just have the bot do the work.

where is our buddy gm_sales??? god i would love to hear what he would say. its maybe because GM is far superior to everyone else, the cars make themselves like in I Robot, thats why GM doesnt need their 73,000 employees

This article probably made GM Sales’ head explode. He cant speak favorably about one part of GM without putting down another part of GM (company vs workers).

Idiots just don’t get it at the UAW.

400Horse – Dude, don’t hate me because I loathe the union. You obviously don’t know it, but I am on your side. At some point, you and the rest of the UAW workers will have to ask yourselves, how do Toyota, Nissan, and Honda all do it without the union? Toyota alone has quite a few factories here in the US. How is it that their workers get along without the protection of the UAW? Do you think their workers are being abused? From what I hear, they got an average of $18,000 for a year end bonus last year. That’s what happens in non-union companies. What was the average dues last year a UAW worker had to pay?

Mr. 400Horse, the UAW does not protect you, it abuses you. Good luck Friday.

BTW – Instead of one of us working in a plant to see what you do, why don’t you tell us what you do? You have a forum here, we’re all eyes and ears.

The ones who think the entire workforce can be replaced by robots obviously haven’t spent much time in assembly plants. The vast majority of Body and Paint Shops are robots.
I think these negotiations might be on the right track. GM guarantee to keep jobs in the USA, but I don’t see this happenning without health care and wage concessions.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k148/WaaaaHoooo/UAW.jpg

“This article probably made GM Sales’ head explode. He cant speak favorably about one part of GM without putting down another part of GM (company vs workers).” lolololol Driven

Commodore, if $13/hr per article you provided is less then half of Toyota hourly wage, then Toyota compensates its workers above UAW level. 400horseSS states that UAW workers get only 50K/year which is about $25/hr.
There will be always debacle of part-time workers: unions don’t like them because they can not be unionized and therefore not a money maker for unions. However,we the people, love to pay lower price of a car. Non-specialized work can be achieved with low-skilled labor at half the full timer salary. Actually, in Japan Toyota is fairly strict about workers education: its a must (hence strict selection process). I was part-time worker while going through college and paying for it, not at auto factory: could not get in it was well paid job.
In my humble opinion, church groups should focus their pastors pedophile activities and we all would be better off for it.

Let’s all play BLISS ! ! ! ! !
……………………………BIG CHANGES AHEAD. DUHHHHHHHH!

Now…UAW need to blame Mexicans steal their jobs.

Even though over 800 union officials have been “convicted” since 2002 of financial fraud (siphoning off penion funds, etc), their Democratic allies slashed the govt’s budget by 25% to reduce investigations and I’ve heard union members defend them over this. Personally, I would be pissed! Also, the Democrats are going to keep the unions alive by changing organization standards so a business can be unionized without secret balloting. They are going to reintroduce thug and peer pressure tactics by keeping employee’s votes public. This is their solution to our economy, sounds sane doesn’t it?

Like the first stage of a three stage rocket the UAW helped secure jobs, protect its members and create a better working environment for all industial jobs in America in the 20th century. Now its time for the UAW to detach. They are now the drain on the syatem that they helped to create. Basically set stages of responsiblity for health care something like
if currently retired – get current benies
if retirement age- 10% – get current benies – 10%
new hire starting salary is cut by 10%
no changes to current salaries.
current healthcare cut by 10%.

Employers do not have to provide healthcare. They do it to make themselves attractive to employees.

Northwest arilines anyone??? Break the union. At first NWA was going to keep 5,000 workers, they they struck, and I believe only a little north of 2,000 actually got a job after the strike.

The writing has been on the wall, guess no one at the UAW knows how to read it..

Anyone remember the NWA mechanics? How did that work out?

CNN just stated GM has enough inventory to last until near the end of the year. So GM can still make money selling cars while not spending money making cars. UAW better be ready for a long strike & lots of concessions in the end.

One of the biggest sticking points, according to CNN, is job security. UAW workers need to wake up. No one has had job security for decades. Its foolish to think they deserve to be guaranteed a job in this age.

If I were a young UAW worker I would spend my strike time looking for a new job not controlled by an outdated organization that has their hands in my pocket.

autonutt – its more than just the wages, which no matter how you try to spin it GM pays about 73 dollars an hour for labor while toyota pays 48 (with wages, healthcare, and everything included) That is PER HOUR, PER CAR. The point is that GM is in a severe disadvantage compared to their competitors and I am glad they are standing up for themselves rather than giving their employees the ridiculous benefits they are demanding. Guess what UAW? People buy Japanese cars now, hence they don’t buy GM cars, hence GM is not healthy financially, hence you can’t live the life like you have been living it for the last half a century.

”
where is our buddy gm_sales??? god i would love to hear what he would say. its maybe because GM is far superior to everyone else, the cars make themselves like in I Robot, thats why GM doesnt need their 73,000 employees
”

Are you kidding me? You are gonna try to say that this is GM’s fault that their employs are on strike??? And when did GM ever say that they didn’t need their employees. Are you brain dead?

hey gmsales? Isn’t a better union a happy union like you said? lmao. too bad your too scared to even both answer.

Yo Autonut you stated “The strike does not affect plants in Canada, Mexico, Australia and Europe”

The Canadian fallout from GM’s strike is already being felt immediately. As between 80,000 and 100,000 workers in Ontario and Quebec employed by GM and its various Canadian suppliers could be laid off after the United Auto Workers launched a national strike.

Here are the details:
Oshawa, Ontario
Car Plant 1 Builds the Impala and Monte Carlo, will cease operations at 3 a.m. Tuesday.
Car Plant 2 Builds the Grand Prix and Allure, will close at the end of Tuesday’s day shift.
Truck Plant Builds the Silverados and Sierras – can go about three days on its current stock of parts (End of the Week)

Windsor, Ontario
Transmission Plant is already shut down.

St. Catharines, Ontario
Powertrain plant will begin shutting down within 72 hours.

The ripple effect in Canada could be “quite significant” if the dispute is a long one.

“One in seven jobs in Canada and one in six in Ontario are tied directly and indirectly to the automotive sector, so there will be a number of additional indirect workers affected if this strike lasts any length of time.

This will not help UAW Case!

F*cking bastards! I hope everyone who contributed to this strike burns in hell!

commodore….how you gonna say that its NOT GM’s fault. UAW gave them a ultimatum and they didnt meet their deadline of 11am. I think Hoffa said it best about not giving in until their demands are met. GM didnt even come to a half way point to meet the UAW. if they cared about their employees they wouldnt let 73k damn employees walk out.

this strike just makes GM place more emphasis on new factories overseas.

Its not about Employees anymore its about profit and loss. Why is anyone in here even worried about a strike? Just keep driving your Aussie designed and manufactured GTO’s, and your Ferrari cloned Corvettes. Why are you concerned?

sik59rt
You seem to not understand anything pertaining to the auto industry. GM didn’t “LET” their employees walk out. The UAW organized a strike which means that the Union told its members not to go on the job in order for the Union to have more leverage in the negotiations. If it was GM’s choice, they would NEVER let their employees walk out. GM doesn’t have to meet the demands of the UAW, they are ridiculous and make GM uncompetitive against Toyota and Honda (who pay thousands less per car in labor and benefit costs). Hoffa is a UAW negotiator, he spins it to make the UAW look like people who are neglected and underpayed by GM while in reality they are extremely overpaid by industry standards. This negotiation is crucial because there is not going to be another one for a while, and if you want there to be another one the UAW needs to make concessions so that GM doesn’t go bankrupt before the next contract negotiations. On top of everything, the UAW’s explanation for calling a strike is that they want “more job security”. Are they brain dead? This is how you get job security? I love America, but if American workers aren’t willing to work at competitive wages and call strikes all the time, GM’s president would have no choice but to offshore more work.

if GM wanted to come to a half way point they could of, but they didnt. The UAW obviously did authorize a strike because it will be beneficial for the workers in the long run. and yes gm DOES have to meet their demands or come pretty damn close to it or the union leaders will keep their members out of work until something is agreed upon. what does knowing the auto industry have to do with a strike?? a strike is a strike no matter what industry you are in. union leaders are elected to help their members get what they want, not what a mfg tells them they want. the union leaders dont work for a auto mfg, they work for the 73k employees at gm. they are on strike because they dont feel like they are being treated right and or being paid right. everyone in America knows that their job can be farmed out to other countries…it happens in my industry with Koreans, Malaysians and now Mexicans taking the electronics manufacturing to their countries.
and as this article stated, the GM employees stuck with the company through all their bs, and they feel they deserve what is due to them, however crazy it may or may not be. they are also looking out for the retirees as well. are you union? because if you were, you would want the same hard nose mother f’ers working for YOU and your co-workers.
oh and btw….Hoffa is dead

The National Union of Miners tried this tack in Britain in the 80’s and thought they could hold the country to ransom by stopping production of coal which was vital to Britain’s energy needs. The strike lasted for almost one year during which the miners starved and the government used foreign coal. Government changed the long term strategy to other forms of fuel. Within ten years the British coal industry was dead and buried. The NUM called the strike due to worries about job security.
.
The UAW should bear in mind that it is a lot easier for car buyers to switch from GM to Toyota than it is for a country to switch from coal to gas power stations. Their refusal to accept the economic reality that their labour charges are klling their employers’ competitivity will only accelerate the outcome that they are so worried about.

Got Handling, not only that but GM and Ford are also now a bit more diversified in their countries of product origin, and can source product elsewhere. As a result of stuff like this we may even start to see more of the good non-US cars head this way so that in times of strike GM can leveraage the common design and manufacturing facilities to bring over basically the same models but not built by UAW employees.

GM’s got a few month’s worth of trucks and big cars sitting around to cover the time, and a lot of their small stuff is imported and so will not be too affected. So GM can pull down excess domestic inventory and add to that GM’s quarterly cash flow situation will improve (not having to fork out for production to add to inventory).

The areas that may take a hit are intro of new products like the CTS, or some hot stuff like the Corvette. Although it would suck to not have a few of those one the road, these unions need to be broken because, instead of being a healthy body part, they are like a cancer slowly killing what was once a strong domestic industry.

Hey guys, listen to this:

Oshawa Ontario laid off 3000 workers this morning from their GM1 plant as a direct result of parts supply disruption stemming from the US strike. They’re predicting the closure of GM2 plant in the next 72 hours if it continues, and eventually, if there is no agreement reached, a pootential of 60,000 to 100,000 employees canned outright over the next month.

Well, that was ****ing fast as hell! I guess the CAW is fuming now at this situation.

GM will cave! Its too bad that the Union grip cannot be broken. They switched early on from Ford to Gm to target. They knew that Ford would have a better reason to bargain harder than GM…GM is healthy and profitable for now. I suspect this all will be resolved by the weekend. Too Bad we all cannot have GUARENTEED jobs no matter how bad it gets…this is a right of all of us?? If you are a UAW worker, it is. Let the market force the production/employment of autos in America, not the Unions. There is NO relationship between quality and union employment. We are not guarenteed any more quality in the products union workers produce than the non union across town rivals produce. Lots of people get hurt by unions and very few benefit. Consumers don’t benefit one bit….too bad no one can weather this strike out…too bad.

Deanster, do you have a link for that story?

YEah, here:

http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/TopStories/ContentPosting.aspx?feedname=CTV-TOPSTORIES_V2&showbyline=True&newsitemid=CTVNews%2f20070924%2fUAW_strike_070925

Holy crap, Gm is responsible for the health care of 339,000 retirees/spouses???? WTF? That is sick, man. If I were GM I would stick to my guns and break this stranglehold fast.

skit59rt, you should do some research on the subject before you post. Your thoughts of what the UAW and GM want is a little off. Also, Hoffa & the Teamsters are not the UAW. I am unsure of Hoffas role in this strike other than the Teamsters will honor the UAW picket lines.

Furthermore, James P. Hoffa is James R. “Jimmy” Hoffas son and James P is still alive. I suggest getting your union information from more than the movie Hoffa. James P. Hoffa is the current President of the Intl Brotherhood of Teamsters.

Dealer told me yesterday: best thing for the public to do, is keep buying cars. Edmunds says a long strike could screw customers. But if there’s no supply, customes will just go on to Ford or whomever. This strike needs to be ended as soon as possible

“The UAW should bear in mind that it is a lot easier for car buyers to switch from GM to Toyota”
Comment by Got Handling?
You are right and this has already started as more than half of the vehicles bought in the US are imports. But the UAW doesnt care. The UAW needs to get as much as possible from GM so it can continue to line the pockets of the Union leaders.

Ricardo, over the years UAW has forced GM into giving workers above average wages, unbelievably good health care FOR LIFE, great pensions and job security (you cant be fired). Its time the UAW workers wake up to the real world or get replaced.

Wouldn’t it be great if GM reworked the supply chain to keep the Canadian plants working overtime to produce a decent amount of cars. Then GM could start hiring in the US for new workers making an industry average base salary with basic benefits. Those on the picket lines will only get the picture after their jobs are long gone to people willing & wanting to work for reasonable compensation. Best thing is the jobs dont have to leave the US to allow GM to compete. The UAW workers just need to be replaced by non-union, reasonably compensated persons.

JJT, you really think a dealer is gonna suggest that people don’t buy cars?

Driven, GM needs to do to the UAW what Reagan did to the striking Air Traffic Controllers — just nuke them all and write it off. I was pretty young then but recall how it was predicted that we’d never get a plane off the ground again without union air traffic controllers to show the way. Instead Reagan showed them the way, and we are a better country for it.

Good article Deanster. I’ve been reading a few others as well and it’s amazing how the media is making the UAW out to be victims. The only comment from GM is “…we’re disappointed…”. I find it pretty hard to believe that is the only thing they have to say. Libs today… between Columbia College kids cheering on Ahmadinejad and the media being so pro social-ism, I really don’t see a bright future ahead of us.

On a good note, I am sure Michael Moore is busy at work producing his docufarce, “Rick and Me”.

400 horse SS, how can you strike getting $50,000 a year, health benefits, all on a high school education. Were i come from, Canada, that’s a good wage for a college graduate. (Outside of Alberta, with the Oil boom.) Perhaps Gm should move more of it’s plants to canada, and refuse to unionize them. They could pay the same wages,(which is the same cause the dollar is on par now.) Their shipping costs wouldn’t even be that much higher if they kept in in southern canada.

Shipping costs may even be lower if they used non-union truckers after breaking the UAW.

Ricardo & 67_L-88, both good ideas. UAW and its workers are so far out of touch with reality because the Big3 has given into their demands for far too long. Let the UAW workers look for new jobs & they will soon realize how great they had it. Maybe its the lack of higher education that holding these UAW workers back from understanding they can cut their benefits in half and still be better off with the Big3 than anywhere else.

CNN still says the major sticking point is job security. Why does the UAW think they deserve jobs even if the company is struggling. The UAW claims GM isnt working with them to resolve the contract disput. It sounds like the other way around. The UAW isnt working with GM to help the company stay in business. If the UAW workers want job security they should try to find it somewhere else.

R-Head: no, but the suggustion was that people should ONLY buy GM cars, delaying their purchase until their local GM dealer finally has inventory. Not gonna happen.

Driven: when times were good, management shouldv’e given the UAW stock. Then, they’d have less of an adversarial relationship than they do now

we are not striking for pay we are striking for retirees benefits

driven…i dont seem to remember me saying Hoffa had anything to do with the UAW. and my thoughts about what they want is not off. i stated facts from what this article said and what other articles have said. this strike is for the union member’s benefits and the retired members’ benefits, which i stated already. and no i dont get all my info from movies like Hoffa…but i do get it from Gung Ho. Michael Keaton knew what was up

JJT, according to GMs annual report stock options are held by more than 53,000 GM employees. This is yet another perk of working for GM on top of a guaranteed job, lifetime health care and above average wages. I’m sure GM will gladly give workers more stock options if they will give in on guaranteed jobs, agree to a reduction in wages or give up lifetime health care.

400HorseSS, CNN confirmed with GM and UAW spokespersons that job security is the major sticking point although there are other issues. If you are striking for retiree benefits then why is the major sticking point job security – a benefit for exiting employees? Maybe someone better tell your UAW negotiators what they are striking for. I think they lost sight of that when they were adding up how much money they can collect in dues if they keep everyone working until GM declares chapter 11.

400Horse, I think most people understand you arent striking for more pay. But the UAW does want to keep a guaranteed job and lifetime health care. That just isnt realistic in todays world or even the world as we knew it 15 years ago. There are no guaranteed jobs in life and lifetime health care is a ridiculous perk that most CEOs dont even get after decades of running a company.

Why should tens of thousands (or is it hundreds of thousands) of former employees get that benefit from a company? If the UAW wants to supply health care for life they can take some of that money they skim of the top (look up how many UAW leaders are caught stealing from the members) and put it toward a fund for former GM employee universal health care.

400horseSS, here’s a thought:….

….. since you are striking for retirees benefits, why don’t you and your buddies
….. instead go to work today and contribute 100% of your earnings to the UAW
….. retirees? That would be showing true “brotherhood,” right?

sik59rt
No, GM cannot come to a halfway point with them because GM needs to make its more competitive against Toyota. As I said, Toyota has a BIG competitive advantage over the Big 3 and GM needs to close that gap. Trust me, GM does not want a strike because they are losing billions right now. Also, this strike won’t (hopefully) last long. The UAW president called the strike in order to scare GM into signing a few of their last ridiculous remands, because the two sides are close to an agreement. He used it as kind of a final push to get what the UAW wants. In other words, it might not have been a last resort. GM is not doing well finacially right now, so the workers have to understand that. Lastly, a strike would not be beneficial to workers in the wrong run because what they are doing right now could potentially drive GM to bankrupcy (not probable, but still possible). They might just lose their jobs over this because GM could choose to offshore more labor after seeing what the union chose to do.

My prediction on how this will end (& it will end shortly): GM will partially fund VEBA and the UAW will get agreements that GM will continue production of new cars/trucks in the numerous, costly UAW plants. For example keeping all of the 5 US assembly plants dedicated to full sized pickups and SUVs even though that market is softening and demand is down.

The problem is keeping too many plants, all being costly US UAW plants means GM will continue to be in a bad financial situation. In order to do right by shareholders GM will need to become lax on quality materials to make up for keeping all those costly plants open & UAW workers in jobs.

In the end it will be the customer that suffers by getting an inferior product and GM will continue to loose market share.

Depending on the length of this next UAW contract GM may be in worse financial situation years from now or they will declare bankruptcy before the decade is over. All due to keeping open UAW plants even though demand doesnt warrant the need for all those costly plants.

I forgot the best part. If driven into bankruptcy by the UAW, GM will be able to restructure all those agreements and only fund a small part of the pensions, health care and other retiree benefits.

Just as the retired pilots learned all those years ago, the UAW retirees will be left with a minimal amount in retirement. And current workers will get virtually nothing when they retire – if their jobs last that long.

It should make the current workers on strike happy to know their demands now will mean nothing for them when they retire. Think Social Security… you are paying in now and it wont be there for you when you retire. Your GM health care and pension will be the same way in 15 years & you only have yourself to blame.

RicardoHead: see? This is the kind of bullsh*t GM has to deal with. And everyone else bitches and moans about them not performing well financially. Well, how the hell can they do that (build awesome vehicles) when they have to support a zillion people each with their own medical expenses, pensions etc.? Huh? Answer me that, bitches, and I’ll show you a green dog. F*cking idiots just don’t get it. If they kill GM, a quarter of a million people or more will lose their jobs, directly or indirectly because of this catastrophe.

if they want job security, wouldn`t working be your best bet. this strike will only hurt GMs image, and scare away potiental customers. or, scare away more customers when they go to the dealership and theres no cars there.

So people should not blame on imports….blame UAW….it is them who drive up the cost of American’s auto industries…it is them who built unreliable cars and trucks…it is them who try to sink the company and themselves…..so stop blaming the import brands. It is Americans who shot their own feet.

Driven: i don’t think that’s enough. i think back in good times, the Union membership should have owned a 30-40 percent share of the company. That way, there’s more incentive to make quality Job one, and get rid of work rules that undermine productivity.

I predict either GM will break the union or UAW will come to its senses about healthcar premiums. I covered a few near-strikes at goodyear, and every time, they lost a little more of their medical benefits, especially the retirees. But the rank-and-file should be loathe to trust upper union or management with its future money

Elvio: I don’t think imports CAN be blamed on this one

Elvio

American UAW workers are not at fault for building quality cars. Toyota uses the same kind of american workers as GM does, except they are not unionized. If american workers are at fault for building low quality cars, than I guess Toyotas such as the Camry that are built in America are also of poor quality

Commodore – I would say yes, it is the American worker. Reason being, well there’s two different types of workers here. You have the non-unionized worker who is able to be promoted, has ownership in the manufacturing process, is involved in decision making, and is not treated as a mindless retarded slave. Those workers happen to work for Toyota, Honda, Subaru… On the other hand, you have union workers who hate their jobs, hate the people they are working for because they feel they make too much money, who’s only future in the union is to be promoted to working on a different machine across the floor, and who also are trained like monkeys to use brooms and crescent wrenches. There’s a different mentality between the two workers. If I worked for a union, I wouldn’t have a good work ethic either. Of course the problem is the UAW brainwashes them into thinking they are victims of ‘the man’ and the company is there to ass rape them. But the generous and understanding union will be there to protect them and act as the great equalizer between directors and workers. They are one of the largest Marxist groups in the world. Toyota on the other hand employs a strategy called Kaizen where the lowly worker is actually in charge of the manufacturing process. They have direct lines of communications to the engineers so when problems are identified on the shop floor they are solved on the shop floor. If you ask a union worker to do anything above and beyond their contracted job description it immediately is translated into more money. Only in the UAW does a worker feel they are entitled to lifetime benefits when they haven’t even completed a 2 year associates degree.

Where Elvio is mistaken, nobody is blaming Toyota for GM’s troubles. People like me, we just don’t like Toyota save for a few particular vehicles. Ragging on the import wankers is by no means blaming Toyota for anything. He also happens to be mistaken about GM building unreliable cars and trucks. That’s just a flat out nonfactual statement. They do however cost a heck of alot more to build.

Ok the real Truth is GM wasn’t fully paying into Retiree’s accounts during the 80-90s and it has finally come back to bite GM in the keister. We all know what happend then, we closed a ton of factories and America began outsourcing to Mexico and around the world. GM has been mismanaged and its going to take them a longtime to get back if ever. I

So you are saying that thousands upon thousands of UAW workers purposely mess up when building cars, but non-union Toy workers are very happy with their company so they devote their lives to building the best cars out there? I’m sorry, but I think that is a PRETTY FAR reach.

Also, GM has quite a few non-union plants in the US, more than you would expect. So you think that even those plants produce cars with lower build quality than the comparable US Toy plants?
I doubt it. This is just one of quite a few reasons of why Toyota’s build quality is not any better than GM’s.

At the rate things are going, we will be paying for cars with yen. It’s shameful. The automobile was invented in this country. We dominated the market for years. Vehicles are the #1 consumer product in this country (in the world, in fact). And we are losing it. All due to piss-poor management (which has been much better – especially at GM), and the UAW – which is as completely stubborn, greedy, and ignorant as ever.

Unfortunately, you are mostly right Vertical. With people like 1115 and sunshine that have become devout Japanese car consumers, America’s auto industry might go the way of our consumer electronics industry (how many domestic TVs and DVD players do you have in your house? Just to help you out, look the companies up before you post them because many of them like Olympus and Pioneer sounds VERY american)

For the record, one more time: the UAW is a communist organization that is the economic downfall of the US. Buying an American car is tantamount to supporting a communist regime that is screwing the country from the inside out.

Buy American and screw your fellow AMericans. No matter what the consequences of GM collapsing, there’s no way it’ll be more expensive than feeding this bottomless pit billions of dollars for the rest of eternity.

Just wondering..how old are you Deanster? The money you spend on an American car goes towards the development of future cars, and the parts and materials of the car you bought, and to paying the workers who assembled the car. GM does NOT pay ANY money to the UAW. GM’s employees may choose to join the union which will then represent them and negotiate on their behalf. NO GM MONEY GOES TO THE UAW. It only goes to the workers, not to the organization itself. Got it?

Secondly, you seem to hate the UAW, I certainly agree with you on that. But I really doubt that the UAW has the power to bring about “the economic downfall of the US”. This strike they are on right now might destroy GM, but it can hardly destroy America. And if you want to support America, it would still be better to buy from a unionized-american company like GM rather than the imports. I am pretty familiar with your past posts, so it will be interesting to see how you will bash me in your next comment because you disagree.

Nah Commodore, he’ll bash you because you are a posterior passage plundering pederast, and then he’ll probably point out that he never said that GM pays any money to the UAW.
.
Vertical, I’m sorry to disrupt your national fervour, but the automobile was not invented in the USA, it was invented by one of those fiendishly clever Germans, in Germany. You might have heard of his company, a small outfit known as Daimler-Benz.

Got Handling – your right, it’ll be interesting to see what he says. He is currently busy copying and pasting his last comment on every GM-related article on LLN so he won’t post here again until he is done. And wasn’t the automobile invented by both Daimler and Chrysler (almost independently in the two countries?)

Commodore, here’s how I choose to bash you since you’re familiar with my past comments:

“**** YOU AND YOUR WHORE MOTHER. And the drugged up donkey the skank rode in on!”

How’s that for mature? I’m 31, btw.

In all seriousness, (sorry Commodore, I didn’t mean that, I’m just playing around), I stand by my comments for a variety of reasons – to see why, skip to the latest GM strike posting (where they reach an agreement) and read it! …to be continued….

Commodore – Purposeful sabotage versus religious life devotion is certainly an extreme and far fetched. What I explained lays more in the middle of that. If an entire work force is at odds with its employer, chances are they are not working to their full potential. Is that far fetched? Promotions are different in the union. Since everything has to be “fair”, personal performance does not necessarily factor into the equation. Seniority is heavily weighted. Where’s the incentive there to perform?
Toyota on the other hand operates in a way that empowers it’s employees. Same type of work, just done differently. It comes down to HR management. Employees have a future, they have a greater impact, and they have incentive to perform. A $20,000 bonus certainly gets my butt in gear. When was the last time any union worker got any type of bonus?
Now, I have no idea what GM plants out there are non-union and what their capabilities are. If you do, I would love to know. Are they building vehicles? Or are they factories owned by another company manufacturing parts for GM?
I’m calling it the way I see it. I am as red blooded American as they come and I’m not bashing American workers. I am criticising the system that they work in. And to an extent, Deanster is correct. Before you gasp in horror, (I know, I’m gagging myself), hear me out. Everyone complains about the US manufacturing base disappearing and being sent over seas. Our manufacturing base is what created the wealth that the US now enjoys and takes for granted. Buying and selling services to ourselves is simply redistributing money between entities and does not create any wealth. Manufacturing, selling overseas, brings new wealth into this country. How can anyone not expect our manufacturing base to move overseas when we have unions demanding that uneducated workers be paid the same as college graduate engineers? The death from within that Deanster is talking about occurs in the slow death of our manufacturing base. So do you disband the UAW and try to reindoctrinate the workers into a capitalist work system? Do you grant amnesty to illegals in hopes that they create an instant manufacturing base? Unless something changes, yes, it will be a slow death.

Piablo:
“On the other hand, you have union workers who hate their jobs, hate the people they are working for because they feel they make too much money, who’s only future in the union is to be promoted to working on a different machine across the floor, and who also are trained like monkeys to use brooms and crescent wrenches.”

Where did you get that insight?

“If I worked for a union, I wouldn’t have a good work ethic either” Then, you don’t have one now.

“Toyota on the other hand employs a strategy called Kaizen where the lowly worker is actually in charge of the manufacturing process. They have direct lines of communications to the engineers so when problems are identified on the shop floor they are solved on the shop floor.”
That actually makes sense, and it’s this sort of thinking that would save the Big 3.

“Buy American and screw your fellow AMericans,” deantj, that makes no sense.

I don’t think Chrysler were selling automobiles until well into C20, I know thatKarl Benz sold his first in 1888 and on this side of the pond Mercedes-Benz’s claim to be the inventors of the modern petrol powered automobile is regarded as incontestible.

JackJim – I have close friends who worked for New Process Gear in Syracuse, NY. My co-worker’s father worked at the GM plant in Baltimore before it was closed down and now works at the Delaware plant. I have pretty close ties with people who have worked in the factories and under the UAW. I have been told there is required training for the most mundane of tools to ensure proper usage. I have heard about the contract rules where if one guy is out for the day and another fills in, then he gets paid for his normal job as well as the other! I have been forced to read countless studies regarding what makes people happy in their jobs through my MBA study and I can tell you that scripted jobs to the Nth degree is not what makes people happy. With that, if UAW workers are generally happy with their jobs, I stand corrected. But clearly, if they were happy, there wouldn’t be any strikes. There’s a big difference between being thankful for having a job,. and being happy with it. I will give you this though, if my work ethic deteriorated while working for a union, yes, I never had it in the first place.

Again, I’m not trying to bash the union workers. I simply do not support the existence of the UAW. I suppose it’s like the libs who support the troops, but don’t support the war. If the shoe fits…

You can support the troops without supporting the war. I ‘d have prefered not invading Iraq, but having decided to do so, we should not have done it in a half-assed manner. Probably should’ve (this is where you realize I’l no tree-hugging liberal) nuked that ass.

I say take those ridiculous ROE off the board and get our folks home!

I truly think workers should vote to de-unionize themselves, but ….

BTW. Syracuse ain’t no town for punks!

LOL! Very true. Have you been up there?

Yeah.

THEY WILL COME TO SOME AGREEMENT