finally one thing i can be somewhat in agreement on with the UAW…

There is no sole recipient for the blame…it is a result of many players and factors. I am not against unions, but this statement by Gettelfinger is just as tacky as the propaganda video by the Big 3. Maybe they should get together and better coordinate their propaganda as a team?

This is like a cancerous tumor blaming the host for dying.

and LLN, no other automakers are in such “dire straits” because no other automakers have the deep rooting in the US like the Big 3 do. 40-50% market share, infinite plants around the country, the largest dealer networks in the country, and they certainly rely heavily on the miserable credit market. If GM had been making subpar vehicles for the last 5-7 years MAYBE this would be a different story, but they are not, and they are in just as bad shape as the other two.

i do agree that the UAW needs to get shut down if this loan is handed out though.

he is right. Whoever created this post for LLN is a moron however. The UAW did not cause this CURRENT mess. Most of highly paid UAW workers have left the BIg 3 so they are not on the payroll. High gas prices and the credit mess have led to 2008s problems. As soon as one began to fade, the other problem started and ruined any chance for a recovery. The only reason the Japanese arent doing as bad is because they dont have retirees and thus have no legacy costs. You cannot blame the UAW for 20 year old contracts that were signed by the automakers at a time when they thought the terms were acceptable.

The whole 30 years of mismanagement thing is a crock as well. Just another vague accusation thrown around by “journalists” with limited ability to think on their own. That “30 years of mismanagement” has brought vehicles such as the minivans, Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon, Focus, 300/Charger, Mustang, F150, CTS, Impala, Malibu, Corvette, Silverado/Sierra, etc.

I fail to understand how people are more angry at the UAW than the people who created the liquidity crisis. It boggles the mind. Its like people are obsessed with the demise of the UAW even though labor costs are 10% of a car’s cost. I notice this entry doesnt quote any of the facts mentioned in Gettelfingers article about plant efficiency and vehicle quality or how in 2010 the domestic automakers will have lower labor costs than Toyota. Why werent those things mentioned?

I’ll bet Gettlefinger would have made a hell of a goalie in the NHL. He seems to have a knack for deflecting everything away from his own net.

Complete and utter BS. If this were true, then why did Ford mortgage the entire company in 2006? Why has GM been on bankruptcy watch for 2 years? Why was Chrysler valued at $0 by some that looked at buying it from Daimler?

Right, Ron, the unions, the products and mismanagement have nothing to do with it. A statement like that proves that you’re clearly not just part of the first item in that list, but the third, as well.

Please do not be so ignorant to say that the United States can not build an automobile with the quality of an import. When you have only one hand to build the car and the other must be used to wipe the ass of the people that are building them, you are at a bit of a disadvantage.

@johnnycanuck, if all these players (Big 3, UAW, politicians, et al) were assigned positions on a hockey team the whole damn rink would be red a few minutes into the game..
.
I have to give credit to the Big 3 for showing up in Washington. Why the hell didn’t Gettlefinger show up too?

Yep its not the sorry ass products desigined and engineered by highly paid MANAGEMENT, it by the guys like me who want a decent wage, and goes to work dily to build managements f-upped cars and trucks, management from the line superviser up to Detroit didnt give 2 ****s about the product, they just wanted as many possible vehicles out the door in 8 hours period.

Considering the UAW’s hourly cost per unionized worker at the Big 3 in the U.S. is about 70% more than the hourly cost of a non-UAW worker at a Honda or Toyota transplant in the U.S., Gettlefinger has some ’splainin to do.

Years of union extortion tactics (strikes) to win huge pay increases during the economic boom times had big costs in the future. That future is now, and it’s time to pay the piper. The airlines go throught the same knee-jerk cycles: when they make money in good times, the unions order strikes to get a piece of the company’s profits through pay raises, then the cycle turns, and the airlines quickly go bankrupt because they can’t afford to pay the high wages they were just forced into by the union. Then the union agrees to concessions, the company returns to profitability for a short time, then the union wants more money again. And the cycle repeats. It’s got to stop.

The collapse can only be blamed on the consumer. They were the ones who f’d up and bought foriegn trash instead doing your duties of supporting GM. Now all of you will be standing in the same unemployment lines and paying for your mistakes.

Go GM! An American Revolution!

Yes, the cost of union labor and retiree support is killing the Big Three. No, it’s not solely the fault of Big Labor. Management should have grown the spine to stop appeasing the UAW years ago. Who wrote these cushy “Generous Motors” contracts? The suits.

Gettlefinger sounds like one of those “full pay to the last day” guys. But if he doesn’t change his tune, he’s going to have to explain to his rank and file why they’re all going to end up as Wal-Mart greeters. Because no government aid package is going to get approved if GM and Ford can’t get their cost basis under control. If there is not a reasonable expectation that the bailout will return these companies to profit, it won’t happen.

Who was it who said GM has bloated into a huge health insurance provider that happens to make vehicles on the side?

One thing that trips me out in that GM video is where it says the Big 3 employ 239,000 people directly but support the health and retirement of 775,000 people. That math is insane – to pay the retirement of 3 times more people than you employ?

It’s sick because some of these stats make me totally oppose any bail-out, but my understanding of the absolutely devastating general economic effects in the next 5 to 6 years makes me support it (with conditions). People say the demand will shift to the foreign makes, but what they don’t get is that if 3 or 4 million people are on the streets, the ripple effect will absolutely kill demand for almost anything beyond the necessities. When money stops turning over, demand vanishes.

Is all MISSMANAGEMENT between UAW and big 3. They knew this is going to happen, they just ignore it. GM need to drop the low proformance brand and dealership, and restracture the company. Ford has been doing a good job, but really need to restracture them self to make it better.

@johnnycanuck and @lariat

It would be a scene from Slap Shot. A bench clearing brawl before the refs are on the ice. Marvelous.

Mmmm, I seem to remember it was because of the UAW that I had to sneak around the plants on Saturdays and Sundays because according to UAW rules a design/product engineer is not allowed within 20 or so feet of the production line. They had a three strikes and you’re out policy at Chrysler, If you were written up by a UAW member three times you were banned from the plant. You could be written up for something as harmless as wearing a tie (of course thats not what it said on the ticket, but thats why you got one). The UAW is absolutely against any form of efficiency improvement. I was involved in projects at a number of Chrysler plants and I have never in all my career seen anything like it, It was like going back in time. The plants were like something out of the dark ages, 40% of the people in them don’t actually seem to be doing anything and seemed to take great exception to you watching them do nothing. Comparing it to plants in Europe or the Japanese plants it was like night and day.
And as for the comment “30 years of mismanagement” has brought vehicles such as the minivans, Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon, Focus, 300/Charger, Mustang, F150, CTS, Impala, Malibu, Corvette, Silverado/Sierra, etc”, Its just such a typically blinkered view that I am almost lost for words, Not a single vehicle on that list would even have been considered cutting edge, nay, adequate in Europe ten years ago, except the Focus, but then that was designed in Europe and thankfully the Euro spec vehicle never had to put up with the awful American spec interior.

Mayer_ray_nagin: you are absolutely right. It’s outrageous that these companies have been driven right off the cliff like this, and both management and labor have been grievously irresponsible, and I don’t see why the hell those of us who live within our means and pay our own bills should step up to bail out these drunken pigs. But if we don’t we are all screwed for years.

Every time I see Gettlefinger’s name, I immediately think of Middle Finger. Go figure…

I sometimes deal with union reps at work. They are disgusting low-life pigs. In a world of absolute justice, Gettlefinger would be disembowled, drawn and quartered, flayed alive, and castrated.

It is the union’s fault (outrageous cost of building a car), and the management’s fault (continuing to spend money on developing the latest Escalade and Durangos instead of spending a better chunk on the smaller cars), and the economy’s fault, but don’t blame the consumers. They’re buying what they want. They aren’t required buy crappy products, no matter where there made.

That being said, there’s no getting around the outrageous cost that’s associated with unionized Big 3 workers. If that idea can’t get through this PR hack’s head, they’ll never recover from the sorry shape they’re in.

Hmmm… perhaps if they didn’t have to pay such high labor costs, they could have invested that money into building better products.

That the nature of reality is lost to the UAW is evident by Mr. G’s comment. Prosperity is the result of manufacturing goods not the making of work. It comes from doing the work not avoiding it. It comes from continually looking for and implementing a more efficient and productive method/s of manufacturing, not fighting tooth and nail to sabotage these methods in the interest of preserving the status quo. It comes from making and REINVESTING profits, not seizing these profits for the benefit of slackers who do all they can to prevent these profits from being earned in the 1st place. GM, Ford and Chrysler would certainly not be in the situation they are today if were not for the decades of abuse and extortion heaped upon them by the UAW. The $$s to produce will always go the folks that can produce the best product for the least money. The results of this are obvious in the North American market. Imagine if all the money spent on exhorbitant wages and servicing health care had been spent on product development. Without the UAW the US industry might have had a chance and would probably be employing a whole lot more workers.

“The majority of union workers have been overpaid for decades, evidenced by the UAW’s recent concession to cut wages in half.” You’re editorializing, LLN.

“According to Gettelfinger, Detroit’s current situation has nothing to do with past UAW contracts …” He’s wrong.

“it really doesn’t look like Toyota or Honda will be picking up a UAW contract anytime soon.” Toyota workers have been resisting the UAW for years. if they do unionize, they’ll pick another union.

Lariat Luxury Locomotive Liner No.3: “There is no sole recipient for the blame…it is a result of many players and factors.” You’re right.

sj79: “You cannot blame the UAW for 20-year-old contracts that were signed by the automakers at a time when they thought the terms were acceptable.” Good point.

“That ‘30 years of mismanagement’ has brought vehicles such as the minivans, Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon, Focus, 300/Charger, Mustang, F150, CTS, Impala, Malibu, Corvette, Silverado/Sierra, etc.”

Unfortunately, it also brought us the Celebrity, Fiero and Sebring.

Need more oil for GM: “The collapse can only be blamed on the consumer.” The consumer is the one party this collapse CANNOT be blamed on.

The people who bough so-called “foreign trash,” are the reason Today’s Malibu isn’t a celebrity.

Catiadesigner: “The UAW is absolutely against any form of efficiency improvement.” I’m not buying that.

howsmydriving: tell us how you REALLY FEEL!

The credit situation certainly did not help the auto industry, as much as any other industry, but when the money is not flowing and problems get exposed, the UAW is absolutely responsible for a great deal of their troubles. Look at how much it costs them just to maintain their lazy workforce, which is full of people who demand way more money and benefits, and at the same time demand to work in the least efficient manners possible, it’s disgusting. And American cars are about as great as new American TV shows: they just recycle old crap, and make different versions of the same thing, and try to call them ‘revolutionary’…it’s all pathetic. If Toyota or Honda tried to unionize, they would either laugh, fire them, or shut the plant down, but many Americans have this mentality that they are ‘owed’ something, and it’s a big reason why we are losing quite a bit of ground…

Well said Terk

And “Need more oil for GM” made the stupidest comment I’ve ever heard, ignorant redneck

I am sick and tired of all this UAW bashing! I would really like to know all those who bash the unions, what job ii is you do!

“Unfortunately, it also brought us the Celebrity, Fiero and Sebring.”

ah and there is the problem with all you american car haters, refusal to get out of the past. The Celebrity is at least 20 years old. In your next post you will reference the Cimarron which is about 25 years old. I’m sorry those vehicles were made and I’m sorry they offended you but 20 years is a LONG time.

“They aren’t required buy crappy products, no matter where there made.”

Who is making crappy products in 2008? This isnt 1970. You people are like a bunch of 4th graders in terms of your vague complaints. Do you honestly think that ANY car from any country in this market is crappy? Even Hyundais are nice. The simplistic attitude of the people who post here is sickening. Because they personally have a UAW vendetta they feel justified in saying that domestic products are crappy. The CTS, Enclave, Vette, Flex, MKS, Aura, Cobalt SS, F150, 2009 Ram, etc. are crappy to you?

BTW, all the people attacking Gettelfinger based on LLN’s biased excerpt from his article shoudl acutally read the article before commenting further. He never says there has been NO mismanagement in the history of the Big 3. He said that THIS CRISIS wasnt called by bad management or the union. He is correct. He and the current leadership of the Big 3 are the ones who have slashed labor costs so I dont get why people here are trashing these folks. If you want to be mad at leaders from the 80s so be it, but this group of guys is actually making headway. Thousands of workers have been released and hourly wages for new hires will be 50% of current rates. Why is everyone complaining?

The unions and management are both to blame. They can finger point all they want, but at the end of the day they both f’d up. Poor foresight, brand management, product development, pricing, union contracts, and market forecasting doomed domestics. It just tooks years to come about because of their large market share.

NMOFGM- it’s not the American public’s “duty” to buy crappy products. I’m not saying all domestics are crappy, but they haven’t offered (obviously by sales) what imports have. Automobiles are the only thing that I see people whine about buying American. They can buy foreign for anything else, but oh no if they buy foreign autos! Pfffft…Oh, I’ll come visit you when you are at your new job as a Toyota salesman.

sj79, they have nothing else to bitch about, our insurance sucks, our new hires are making $14 an hr, they got VEBA, over last summer everyone one here was clapping GM for finally “Sticling it” to the Union, GM gpot what they wanted and then some, but that isnt good enough for LLN bloggers, ill tell you ladies something if you want me to make $14 an hour thats cool, you can pay for my house 2 cars, credit cards, and everything else that i cant have, go to hell pussies.

well you have to remember that many people are mad because they know line workers are making more than they are so they wish death on the union and the automakers. I think any reasonable person can agree that the good times are over the the UAW so I see no reason to want them to suffer more. They have made the necessary concessions but the economy has tanked before the Big 3 can realize the serious savings. BTW- one thing no one has mentioned is that much of the cash burn experienced by the Big 3 in recent years has been related to buyouts of highly paid workers. Those are NOT recurring costs.

mayer_ray_nagin, the first post was priceless. There is some competition to Johnnycanuck left south of their border!

If this crisis wasn’t caused by management or the union but rather by giant economic forces that affect everybody equally, then why are the Big Three dying while Honda and Toyota are making money and Audi sales are up in 2008? If Gettlefinger was right, they’d need the government to come squirt milk in their mouths too.

So, Gettelfinger is trying to save some face. The (original) article isn’t actually as bad as LLN makes it out to be. Still he’s trying to get some sentiment for the UAW, because not many people have much. If GM was able to cut the unions pay in half, then why was it so high in the first place? A lot of you piss around the bush talking about how it’s GM’s fault for allowing the union to come in the first place. You think it’s that simple? It’s obviously not, or any of the Big Three would have done this years ago.

And aside from that, the union is out to look for the well being of it’s employees… Don’t you think with that sort of responsibility, they would have recognized they were helping set up GM for a crisis? With some simple common reasoning… the union isn’t the sole reason for the Big Three doing so poorly, but is on the top of the list. And it’s all the unions fault they made it that way, not Gm’s, and definitely NOT the consumers.

On a $20k car… for 120 minutes of labor it costs $2400.

Leftlanenews- Is it SO difficult not to post links or resources to the original article? You guys seem to have this issue with citing stuff. I’m not asking for links from the site you copied and pasted it from, just the original article.

Catiadesigner- Interesting post. What exactly did you do at Chrysler? Just curious.

sakio- Why blame it on GM and Ford for continuing to make products that people want?

You people fail to realize that Americans really like our large SUV’s. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a small minority that’s constantly bashing American automakers for developing SUV’s instead of smaller vehicles. We don’t enjoy renting a van to carry our stuff or tow it very occasionally, or having a second vehicle to carry around the kids and groceries. I could criticize Europe for not having large enough vehicles just as much as they could criticize ours for having larger than needed ones. Just get over it, it’s preference of choice.

TomF- But it’s not that simple. Once just a few plants were unionized, they could shut down nearly all of Ford/Gm/Chrysler operations. Now, they (the UAW and CAW) could shut down nearly the entire worlds automotive operations.

So when you say “the suits did it”, the suits may have done it to avoid going six feet under.

*I’m not asking for links from the site you copied and pasted from, just a link to the original article

1, Quot……”According to Gettelfinger, Detroit’s current situation has nothing to do with past UAW contracts, the 30+ years of mismanagement”

NO…..paying some one $35.00 buck$ a hour to put a FX4 sicker on the side of my truck, that’s didn’t do it…

2, Quot……”or even the inferior products that have been rolling out of Detroit until just recently.”

A product that who put together?….
” Ya I know the cake I made taste like $#-it, but it was what i put in to it that made it taste like that, I now the cook book told me to do it their way, but I had my smoke brake, and then my coffee brake, then my just my brake, and then it was lunch time, so you can imagine how hard my day was, and on top of that I had to make this stupid cake…

3, Quot……”Instead, Gettelfinger solely blames the economic downturn for the imminent collapse of the Big Three.”

It’s so, so, so easy to point a finger….

Give me a brake, as if he’s union is not going to benefit from the bail-out….
No one see’s him saying “No don’t give it to them” he’s just say it was not his fault…
Ya,….. and my sisters neighbor hood did go up in flames over the weekend….
>L.A. fire’s if you saw the News, and yes we’re okay<

union workers… this is the guy that’s in charge of you all. i see that sh*tty mind set starts from the top and goes all the way down to the over paid lazy fat f*cks that work at the shut down SUV plans..

ya! great american revolution my a*s!! where’s the revolution at? i told you long time ago that you’re f*cking going down, b*tch!

One main comment to make. Use spell check please everyone. Reading through some of your posts is just awful and makes me cringe at the incomprehensible grammar errors made by nearly all of you. Didn’t you go to school and at least pay a little bit of attention?

Now… UAW has to take a big hunk of the blame, but so does GM. It was said earlier that you can’t blame GM for signing 30 year contracts which appeared to have reasonable terms. Do you realize how sad that statement is? Who signs a 30 year contract? Who assumes that a 30 year contract has reasonable terms? Honestly, did the automakers assume that the World would continue to be on the up and up forever and there would be no repercussions?

Another… as a few have said… how could UAW afford to cut pay by 50%? They are finally bringing wages down to what they should be for a job like that. Yes, I understand to design a car and turn it into a mass production item is difficult, however, placing a dashboard in a car while on a line or installing the light housings is not. Those people do not deserve over $30/hr and they should know that.

400horseSS said “ill tell you ladies something if you want me to make $14 an hour thats cool, you can pay for my house 2 cars, credit cards, and everything else that i cant have, go to hell pussies.”
- Response: Let’s assume you make $28/hr (with the recent assumptions of 50% paycuts, I merely doubled that for those that didn’t understand). Well with that assumption, how in the hell do you need credit cards? Do you realize, honestly, how much money that is annually? 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year and you’re at $58,240 before taxes. Live within your means dumbass…

NeedMoreOilForGM said ”

The collapse can only be blamed on the consumer. They were the ones who f’d up and bought foriegn trash instead doing your duties of supporting GM. Now all of you will be standing in the same unemployment lines and paying for your mistakes.

Go GM! An American Revolution!”
- Response: You have got to be kidding me (I really hope you are sarcastic). I blame your ignorant mindset for what is wrong. I will buy what I want to buy, so f*** you for trying to say it is my fault for doing otherwise. I leased a Tundra before my current car that was BUILT and SOLD in America you idiot. In my home state actually. Go out and read a book and learn what the real World is like. Oh and un-plug the computer until you figure that out.

That’s enough for now. I had to register. It was a fun little read while I wait for dinner to get ready. You guys (some of you) are really making me feel good about myself. Thanks! The others that aren’t… thanks for using your heads!

I look at the UAW as a corporation, similar to any of the Detroit 3. The difference is that while GM supplies cars to consumers, the UAW supplies man-hours to carmakers. Unfortunately, the UAW has carved out a monopoly (regarding the Detroit 3), and has acted accordingly… thereby contributing to this mess. Perhaps the UAW could be broken up (similar to how AT&T was split up in the ‘80’s) in order to spur competition.

Unions have every right to exist, but just like any large corporation, when they become monopolistic it’s time for them to be restructured.

Just to give you guys some more perspective…

The senate released Monday a statement saying that 355,000 auto workers are employed in the U.S. (I’m not sure if they mean just American owned factories, but I’m assuming so as it’s similar to other statistics I’ve read about the Big Three). An additional 4.5 million are working in related industries. That doesn’t count the one million retirees, spouses and dependents who rely on the company for health insurance and retirement.

Just assume 1 million of those people are out of jobs, one sixth of the actual number… the results would be tremendous, and the scope of it very wide.

Do the letters BS mean anything (in regards to the root cause for the Big Three troubles). Product, Product, Product is the main cause that customers shopped elsewhere. The economic down turn only pushed it along further to cause them to burn through cash faster but they were already down this dangerous road before credit went south and gas prices went north.

The UAW, like the Big Three, are just trying to divert the attention from where the real problems are with these companies. THEY DID THIS TO THEMSELVES. If they survive, I hope some one put a huge hole in their golden parachutes.

I think if the Big Three get a bailout, it should be under the condition that the UAW must cease to exist.

Trouble is, the democrats LOVE unions.

DBro: “Look at how much it costs them just to maintain their lazy workforce, which is full of people who demand way more money and benefits, and at the same time demand to work in the least efficient manners possible.”

Oh, really? Where do you get this stuff?

Toyota and Honda don’t unionize because those companies have set things up nicely for their employees, who don’t see any reason to unionize. Many of them think if they got in the UAW, guys from Michigan might come down and take their jobs.

sj79: ” “ah and there is the problem with all you american car haters,”
C’mon, I drive a Buick. My point was that the fact that the Fiero and Celebrity are from the ’80s, doesn’t help GM change perceptions. Some people are still living in the past, and the big three need to combat that. No matter how good the CTS is, to some people, the Cimarron will spoil it.
Not fair, but they’ve got to figure out a way to make it clear that things are different now.

hich is about 25 years old. I’m sorry those vehicles were made and I’m sorry they offended you but 20 years is a LONG time.

HoosierHero: I’ll say again, when times were good, management should have given the union stock. That’d make everyone’s common interest more obvious.

“I’m not saying all domestics are crappy, but they haven’t offered (obviously by sales) what imports have.”
Sales are more of an indication of what people like, than of quality. That’s why britney Sells a billion albums and pavement sells 39.

sj79: “well you have to remember that many people are mad because they know line workers are making more than they are so they wish death on the union and the automakers.”
I think there’s also a jealousy factor of people doing work that’s less inherently “manly.”
I used to make cable assemblies for jets, so I don’t really get this, but there are some people who are angry because they’re not tough to handle a blue-collar job.

SG328is: I don’t owe anybody anything, except my Bank on a four year car loan that’ll be paid off this spring, less than two years after the drive-off.

DetroitWatcher: I look at the UAW as a corporation …. when they become monopolistic it’s time for them to be restructured.” Good stuff.

SG328is, suck a dick, properly of course.

jimjackturkey… when did I say you owed anything? Good for you to pay off a car early man. Glad to see your priorities in order.

400horseSS… that is about the response I expected from you. Make me laugh actually.

WOW…It sure does sound like some of you are against high paying jobs & retirement???WTF?? Im not currently employed by the big three however I did a 10 year tour in a 110 degree smoke filled stamping plant in the ninetys..FoMoCo!! You can all say these workers are overpayed when youve walked a mile in thier shoes…Obviosly some of you have nothing better to do than bitch about something your clueless about or you are jealous becuase you couldnt pass the written test or the drug screen to work in an auto factory??Its hot dirty back breaking work..If you want UAW to go down and workers to lose pay then your obviosly a loser..Oh and if you like the way the Japanese do things MOVE TO JAPAN drive thier ****ty little 2 cent cars and live on 20 bucks a week..NO ONE HERE WILL MISS YOUR WHINING ASSES…..

Let’s all spend our money in new cars from Detroit so that its worthless managers will not fire thousands of American workers.
Its just like paying ransom to terrorists…
Unbelievable GM needs to DIE !

Guys, as an outsider looking in.. I’ll never buy another big3 product as long as it’s union made. Maybe being an outsider, I don’t get it… but making 25-30 bucks an hour, with full pension, health care, etc for bolting down an engine block? What’s up with the GM “Job Bank”? 8000 guys go “to work” every day, and get paid for doing nothing?

The idea that you can get a good job with a high school education is about 20 years old.. we don’t live in that world anymore. “My dad and grandpa worked their whole lives at GM.. ” Whatever.. The only action I’d suppot in a bailout is Ch 11 bankrupcty for the big 3, where they throw out the labor contracts and start new. Detroit must be full of people willing to work for $10 an hour.. Sorry, I have no sympathy. Maybe big 3 management sucks, but the UAW’s been right there to suck every concessoin they can out of these guys. Time to go..

Hello again…in response to Justin ..Do you really think GM just set up a plan to pay 8000 workers for nothing..Thats part of the job security of a good job..TAKING CARE OF THOSE WHO MAKE YOUR MONEY FOR YOU…What these workers make isnt the problem..IM A MASTER AUTO AND TRUCK MECHANIC WHO WORKS ON A COMMISSION ONLY BASIS AND I BUST MY ASS AND MAKE VERY SIMILAR WAGES..and MY boss IS NOT BANKRUPT!!. COMMISION IS A WORK HARD GET PAID GOOD or DONT WORK HARD DONT & GET PAID AT ALL SETUP AND IT KEEPS LAZY PEOPLE AWAY…BUT AS I STATED ABOVE I HAVE WORKED FOR FORD IN THE PAST AND I HAVE A MUCH EASIER JOB NOW SO DONT KID YOUSELF INTO BELIEVING A LINE WORKER IN THE BIG 3 IS OVERPAID..I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME OF YOU BEND AND LIFT 600 75LB BUMPERS OVER YOUR HEAD EVERY HOUR FOR 12 HRS IN 120 DEGREE HEAT…..IVE DONE IT…I LOST 35LBS IN 6 WKS AND IM NOT A FATASS.. THE management of the big three is mostly to blame along with 4.25 a gallon gas…Truly justin do you want to work for 10 bucks an hour??? Hopefully your job will NOT be affected if the big 3 fall.. Mine will not as Im certified to work on jap junk the same as fine american cars & if no one can afford new cars then they will be paying me to repair their old ones,,HOWEVER Im not like those of you who want to see peoples familys go hungry..KAHRMA will find you!!!

I LOVE TO TYPE IN ALL CAPS SO PEOPLE CAN’T SEE THROUGH MY BULL ****!

Sorry I had to. I’m sorry the shop is 120 degrees, I’m sorry it is physical labor, but monotonous labor on an assembly line does NOT merit 25-30 bucks an hour and you should realize that? There is no free-thinking required for the most part and it is a mindless job. I am NOT saying that the people that do it are mindless. Let me repeat. Most of the workers doing this are NOT mindless. The job is though for the most part. $15-17 an hour is reasonable wage for the working conditions. You guys also received (maybe you still do) tremendous benefits packages because of the conditions. Guess what, your benefits package is part of your salary. In total, with benefits I would be ok with you equaling out to 25 bucks an hour, but to be your straight wage and then get full benefits on top of that? You have got to be kidding me…

I love the people saying foreign cars are trash. Give me a reason why Honda and Toyota are at the top of consumer reports while GM and Ford rank near the bottom. This is actual data on the reliability. And I will also state again. My truck was built in Indiana. Most likely, my truck was built more in American than many American cars in this day in age…

to you, “get a clue tofu farters”. You should get a clue.

JustinJJY… I agree with you. No car from the big three will see my garage until they are restructured and can prove they know how to spend their money. The only ROI they have right now is NASCAR and even that hillbilly of a sport is sinking…

Ah, thanks everyone for the great reading and laughing. It is making my day at my desk job that much better

To you SG328is JUST AN FYI..I HAVE NO TIES WITH THE BIG 3 ANYMORE..I WORKED 10 YEARS IN A FORD STAMPING PLANT FROM 1990 UNTIL 2000 ! when they raised the Visteon flag out front and told us we were no longer a Ford plant I walked out and never returned..(QUIT) I had all my mechanic certs before I worked in that ****hole so I went back to a job I enjoy ..AND I do respect your passion for unamerican cars but Im ‘guessing” even if it is made in the US the profit is going overseas anyway .I really see no need to keep going back and forth with this as we have TWO TOTALLY different views..one from a desk job person (and I assume a well paid desk job person) and one from someone like me who couldnt sit still all day if I were getting paid $150 an hour. I do hope we agree on the fact that the U.S. economy is trashed and many families are likely to suffer!! I personally care..Im not sure if you do but as I said in response to Justin..Hope your job doesnt go to **** …..I do not think any of us are totally immune to the bad things this economy could bring unless some of you are very wealthy & if you are get the HELL get off of here and go live it up!!!!!!!!! Happy holidays to all and I do enjoy sharing everyones opinions..especially yours 400horseSS ..I have an SS or 2 sittin around from my wilder days both big block 4 speeds ……………..

FYI People. I read all of your bashing of the Big Three and then one or a few of you spoke of Toyota.. Well, if you had been listening to the news, Debbie Stabenow, MI, stated that ALL of the big three hourly UAW employees were making less than Toyota (Chrylser & GM were making 20 and 30 cents less and Ford UAW employees were making 1 dollar less BEFORE concessions). Where do you all get off speaking with such outrage over what the UAW workers have made. Contracts don’t come easy.. lots of harassment and haggling. The benefits have been dwindling out the window over the last 12 or so years and other than the cost of living adjustment there is NO raise in the hourly wages which by the way have been forfeited during this last contract negotiation. All of this coupled with the fact that the UAW hourly employees pay 2 hours each month of their wages into union dues doesn’t give them the advantage over Toyota… oh and by the way, Toyota is also begging for money from their government (and rightfully so since they send all their profits back to their own country). All of the foreign companies have had all sorts of incentives to move their businesses here to this country (much more than they have done for the Big Three who are actually AMERICAN companies, or at least they were before they moved alot of the manufacturing to Mexico). It’s true that Toyota has no legacy costs (retirees) since they have not been here long enough to have any retirees and who are you people to deny any retiree his/her pension…. they have all done their time, have come away with illnesses and infirmities that disable them from working another job. They deserve every penny they get and more. It’s because of them that places like the big three are not sweat shops… look at your history and see why unions were formed in the first place. Look around you and see why people you work with make even as much money as they do. Remember that if the wages fall for the big three, yours will too eventually and do you want to be equal to one of the third world countries in your standard of living. Everything has a trickle down effect so before you go bashing the big three, you need to take a look at your own standard of living and remember that what goes around comes around.

You people hating on the UAW are pathetic. If any of you had one of those jobs, your position would be the opposite. Admit it, you’re consumed with jealousy, its not the UAW’s fault that you haven’t been as successful as you’d want to be. Stop laying the blame on others and do something about your own situations whiners.