Sorry I had to. I’m sorry the shop is 120 degrees, I’m sorry it is physical labor, but monotonous labor on an assembly line does NOT merit 25-30 bucks an hour and you should realize that? There is no free-thinking required for the most part and it is a mindless job. I am NOT saying that the people that do it are mindless. Let me repeat. Most of the workers doing this are NOT mindless. The job is though for the most part. $15-17 an hour is reasonable wage for the working conditions. You guys also received (maybe you still do) tremendous benefits packages because of the conditions. Guess what, your benefits package is part of your salary. In total, with benefits I would be ok with you equaling out to 25 bucks an hour, but to be your straight wage and then get full benefits on top of that? You have got to be kidding me…

I love the people saying foreign cars are trash. Give me a reason why Honda and Toyota are at the top of consumer reports while GM and Ford rank near the bottom. This is actual data on the reliability. And I will also state again. My truck was built in Indiana. Most likely, my truck was built more in American than many American cars in this day in age…

to you, “get a clue tofu farters”. You should get a clue.

JustinJJY… I agree with you. No car from the big three will see my garage until they are restructured and can prove they know how to spend their money. The only ROI they have right now is NASCAR and even that hillbilly of a sport is sinking…

Ah, thanks everyone for the great reading and laughing. It is making my day at my desk job that much better

The idea that you can get a good job with a high school education is about 20 years old.. we don’t live in that world anymore. “My dad and grandpa worked their whole lives at GM.. ” Whatever.. The only action I’d suppot in a bailout is Ch 11 bankrupcty for the big 3, where they throw out the labor contracts and start new. Detroit must be full of people willing to work for $10 an hour.. Sorry, I have no sympathy. Maybe big 3 management sucks, but the UAW’s been right there to suck every concessoin they can out of these guys. Time to go..

400horseSS… that is about the response I expected from you. Make me laugh actually.

Oh, really? Where do you get this stuff?

Toyota and Honda don’t unionize because those companies have set things up nicely for their employees, who don’t see any reason to unionize. Many of them think if they got in the UAW, guys from Michigan might come down and take their jobs.

sj79: ” “ah and there is the problem with all you american car haters,”
C’mon, I drive a Buick. My point was that the fact that the Fiero and Celebrity are from the ’80s, doesn’t help GM change perceptions. Some people are still living in the past, and the big three need to combat that. No matter how good the CTS is, to some people, the Cimarron will spoil it.
Not fair, but they’ve got to figure out a way to make it clear that things are different now.

hich is about 25 years old. I’m sorry those vehicles were made and I’m sorry they offended you but 20 years is a LONG time.

HoosierHero: I’ll say again, when times were good, management should have given the union stock. That’d make everyone’s common interest more obvious.

“I’m not saying all domestics are crappy, but they haven’t offered (obviously by sales) what imports have.”
Sales are more of an indication of what people like, than of quality. That’s why britney Sells a billion albums and pavement sells 39.

sj79: “well you have to remember that many people are mad because they know line workers are making more than they are so they wish death on the union and the automakers.”
I think there’s also a jealousy factor of people doing work that’s less inherently “manly.”
I used to make cable assemblies for jets, so I don’t really get this, but there are some people who are angry because they’re not tough to handle a blue-collar job.

SG328is: I don’t owe anybody anything, except my Bank on a four year car loan that’ll be paid off this spring, less than two years after the drive-off.

DetroitWatcher: I look at the UAW as a corporation …. when they become monopolistic it’s time for them to be restructured.” Good stuff.

Trouble is, the democrats LOVE unions.

The UAW, like the Big Three, are just trying to divert the attention from where the real problems are with these companies. THEY DID THIS TO THEMSELVES. If they survive, I hope some one put a huge hole in their golden parachutes.

The senate released Monday a statement saying that 355,000 auto workers are employed in the U.S. (I’m not sure if they mean just American owned factories, but I’m assuming so as it’s similar to other statistics I’ve read about the Big Three). An additional 4.5 million are working in related industries. That doesn’t count the one million retirees, spouses and dependents who rely on the company for health insurance and retirement.

Just assume 1 million of those people are out of jobs, one sixth of the actual number… the results would be tremendous, and the scope of it very wide.

Unions have every right to exist, but just like any large corporation, when they become monopolistic it’s time for them to be restructured.

Now… UAW has to take a big hunk of the blame, but so does GM. It was said earlier that you can’t blame GM for signing 30 year contracts which appeared to have reasonable terms. Do you realize how sad that statement is? Who signs a 30 year contract? Who assumes that a 30 year contract has reasonable terms? Honestly, did the automakers assume that the World would continue to be on the up and up forever and there would be no repercussions?

Another… as a few have said… how could UAW afford to cut pay by 50%? They are finally bringing wages down to what they should be for a job like that. Yes, I understand to design a car and turn it into a mass production item is difficult, however, placing a dashboard in a car while on a line or installing the light housings is not. Those people do not deserve over $30/hr and they should know that.

400horseSS said “ill tell you ladies something if you want me to make $14 an hour thats cool, you can pay for my house 2 cars, credit cards, and everything else that i cant have, go to hell pussies.”
- Response: Let’s assume you make $28/hr (with the recent assumptions of 50% paycuts, I merely doubled that for those that didn’t understand). Well with that assumption, how in the hell do you need credit cards? Do you realize, honestly, how much money that is annually? 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year and you’re at $58,240 before taxes. Live within your means dumbass…

NeedMoreOilForGM said ”

The collapse can only be blamed on the consumer. They were the ones who f’d up and bought foriegn trash instead doing your duties of supporting GM. Now all of you will be standing in the same unemployment lines and paying for your mistakes.

Go GM! An American Revolution!”
- Response: You have got to be kidding me (I really hope you are sarcastic). I blame your ignorant mindset for what is wrong. I will buy what I want to buy, so f*** you for trying to say it is my fault for doing otherwise. I leased a Tundra before my current car that was BUILT and SOLD in America you idiot. In my home state actually. Go out and read a book and learn what the real World is like. Oh and un-plug the computer until you figure that out.

That’s enough for now. I had to register. It was a fun little read while I wait for dinner to get ready. You guys (some of you) are really making me feel good about myself. Thanks! The others that aren’t… thanks for using your heads!

ya! great american revolution my a*s!! where’s the revolution at? i told you long time ago that you’re f*cking going down, b*tch!

NO…..paying some one $35.00 buck$ a hour to put a FX4 sicker on the side of my truck, that’s didn’t do it…

2, Quot……”or even the inferior products that have been rolling out of Detroit until just recently.”

A product that who put together?….
” Ya I know the cake I made taste like $#-it, but it was what i put in to it that made it taste like that, I now the cook book told me to do it their way, but I had my smoke brake, and then my coffee brake, then my just my brake, and then it was lunch time, so you can imagine how hard my day was, and on top of that I had to make this stupid cake…

3, Quot……”Instead, Gettelfinger solely blames the economic downturn for the imminent collapse of the Big Three.”

It’s so, so, so easy to point a finger….

Give me a brake, as if he’s union is not going to benefit from the bail-out….
No one see’s him saying “No don’t give it to them” he’s just say it was not his fault…
Ya,….. and my sisters neighbor hood did go up in flames over the weekend….
>L.A. fire’s if you saw the News, and yes we’re okay<

And aside from that, the union is out to look for the well being of it’s employees… Don’t you think with that sort of responsibility, they would have recognized they were helping set up GM for a crisis? With some simple common reasoning… the union isn’t the sole reason for the Big Three doing so poorly, but is on the top of the list. And it’s all the unions fault they made it that way, not Gm’s, and definitely NOT the consumers.

On a $20k car… for 120 minutes of labor it costs $2400.

Leftlanenews- Is it SO difficult not to post links or resources to the original article? You guys seem to have this issue with citing stuff. I’m not asking for links from the site you copied and pasted it from, just the original article.

Catiadesigner- Interesting post. What exactly did you do at Chrysler? Just curious.

sakio- Why blame it on GM and Ford for continuing to make products that people want?

You people fail to realize that Americans really like our large SUV’s. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a small minority that’s constantly bashing American automakers for developing SUV’s instead of smaller vehicles. We don’t enjoy renting a van to carry our stuff or tow it very occasionally, or having a second vehicle to carry around the kids and groceries. I could criticize Europe for not having large enough vehicles just as much as they could criticize ours for having larger than needed ones. Just get over it, it’s preference of choice.

TomF- But it’s not that simple. Once just a few plants were unionized, they could shut down nearly all of Ford/Gm/Chrysler operations. Now, they (the UAW and CAW) could shut down nearly the entire worlds automotive operations.

So when you say “the suits did it”, the suits may have done it to avoid going six feet under.

NMOFGM- it’s not the American public’s “duty” to buy crappy products. I’m not saying all domestics are crappy, but they haven’t offered (obviously by sales) what imports have. Automobiles are the only thing that I see people whine about buying American. They can buy foreign for anything else, but oh no if they buy foreign autos! Pfffft…Oh, I’ll come visit you when you are at your new job as a Toyota salesman.

ah and there is the problem with all you american car haters, refusal to get out of the past. The Celebrity is at least 20 years old. In your next post you will reference the Cimarron which is about 25 years old. I’m sorry those vehicles were made and I’m sorry they offended you but 20 years is a LONG time.

“They aren’t required buy crappy products, no matter where there made.”

Who is making crappy products in 2008? This isnt 1970. You people are like a bunch of 4th graders in terms of your vague complaints. Do you honestly think that ANY car from any country in this market is crappy? Even Hyundais are nice. The simplistic attitude of the people who post here is sickening. Because they personally have a UAW vendetta they feel justified in saying that domestic products are crappy. The CTS, Enclave, Vette, Flex, MKS, Aura, Cobalt SS, F150, 2009 Ram, etc. are crappy to you?

BTW, all the people attacking Gettelfinger based on LLN’s biased excerpt from his article shoudl acutally read the article before commenting further. He never says there has been NO mismanagement in the history of the Big 3. He said that THIS CRISIS wasnt called by bad management or the union. He is correct. He and the current leadership of the Big 3 are the ones who have slashed labor costs so I dont get why people here are trashing these folks. If you want to be mad at leaders from the 80s so be it, but this group of guys is actually making headway. Thousands of workers have been released and hourly wages for new hires will be 50% of current rates. Why is everyone complaining?

And “Need more oil for GM” made the stupidest comment I’ve ever heard, ignorant redneck

“According to Gettelfinger, Detroit’s current situation has nothing to do with past UAW contracts …” He’s wrong.

“it really doesn’t look like Toyota or Honda will be picking up a UAW contract anytime soon.” Toyota workers have been resisting the UAW for years. if they do unionize, they’ll pick another union.

Lariat Luxury Locomotive Liner No.3: “There is no sole recipient for the blame…it is a result of many players and factors.” You’re right.

sj79: “You cannot blame the UAW for 20-year-old contracts that were signed by the automakers at a time when they thought the terms were acceptable.” Good point.

“That ’30 years of mismanagement’ has brought vehicles such as the minivans, Explorer, Tahoe/Yukon, Focus, 300/Charger, Mustang, F150, CTS, Impala, Malibu, Corvette, Silverado/Sierra, etc.”

Unfortunately, it also brought us the Celebrity, Fiero and Sebring.

Need more oil for GM: “The collapse can only be blamed on the consumer.” The consumer is the one party this collapse CANNOT be blamed on.

The people who bough so-called “foreign trash,” are the reason Today’s Malibu isn’t a celebrity.

Catiadesigner: “The UAW is absolutely against any form of efficiency improvement.” I’m not buying that.

howsmydriving: tell us how you REALLY FEEL!

That being said, there’s no getting around the outrageous cost that’s associated with unionized Big 3 workers. If that idea can’t get through this PR hack’s head, they’ll never recover from the sorry shape they’re in.

It would be a scene from Slap Shot. A bench clearing brawl before the refs are on the ice. Marvelous.

It’s sick because some of these stats make me totally oppose any bail-out, but my understanding of the absolutely devastating general economic effects in the next 5 to 6 years makes me support it (with conditions). People say the demand will shift to the foreign makes, but what they don’t get is that if 3 or 4 million people are on the streets, the ripple effect will absolutely kill demand for almost anything beyond the necessities. When money stops turning over, demand vanishes.

Gettlefinger sounds like one of those “full pay to the last day” guys. But if he doesn’t change his tune, he’s going to have to explain to his rank and file why they’re all going to end up as Wal-Mart greeters. Because no government aid package is going to get approved if GM and Ford can’t get their cost basis under control. If there is not a reasonable expectation that the bailout will return these companies to profit, it won’t happen.

Who was it who said GM has bloated into a huge health insurance provider that happens to make vehicles on the side?

Go GM! An American Revolution!

Years of union extortion tactics (strikes) to win huge pay increases during the economic boom times had big costs in the future. That future is now, and it’s time to pay the piper. The airlines go throught the same knee-jerk cycles: when they make money in good times, the unions order strikes to get a piece of the company’s profits through pay raises, then the cycle turns, and the airlines quickly go bankrupt because they can’t afford to pay the high wages they were just forced into by the union. Then the union agrees to concessions, the company returns to profitability for a short time, then the union wants more money again. And the cycle repeats. It’s got to stop.