All the US automakers have to do is start making good stuff like the Germans, instead of making crap.

… and you’re an idiot. When I see stupidity in writing, as you’ve so perfectly presented ‘Madman’, I understand why the world has disappointed me to the degree it has.

Anyway, the dollar is DEAD. The USA is bankrupt. Buy gold.

lol impulsive you basically said what i was going to about Madcapp.

You see Madcapp, with few exceptions, the domestics ARE making very competitive models now. While a large part of their problem is the fact that they ignored product for 20 years, it has more to do with a conflux of external conditions (credit markets, recession, high fuel costs).

It would be a travesty, on many levels, for these companies to fail just as they are beginning to turn the ship on product. The fact that they are both HUGE components of the U.S. and international economies and are strategic to U.S. technological and industrial know-how, there is no chance that they will be allowed to fold. No chance whatsoever.

Oh and Impulsive, the dollar isn’t dead – in fact, it has seen significant rise in value the past month or so. Are you insane?

sounds like a better idea than giving it to the 9 largest banks in the US, then they turn around and hoard the money to bolster their book value, and pay this year alone more than 100 billion in bonuses to the bozos that put us in this situation. The US car industry has to survive…or I can’t wait to see the new Honda Super duty or the Toyota Silverado pickup??

Interesting philosophy. Ordinarily you pull the string after the bleeding has stopped.

You can assert all the nonsense you want to, I don’t see Mercedes Benz, BMW and Volkswagen hemmorging billions of monetary units every quarter. Fact of the matter is that you’re the idiots..the raw numbers prove that beyond any further speculation, conjecture, or opinion. The dollar strongly favors US automakers, and peanilizes European automakers profitibility…and yet they continue to do well because they build relevant, desirable automobiles.

The domestics are making good vehicles
After 20 years in better vehicles, with them now available at 0%, the stampede, and the calvary. may not make it to Custer’s Last Stand
Give the domestics a shot of capital
Make it count.
Last dance, ladies.
DrFill

‘Architect’, it’s DEAD. All you’re witnessing is the chicken running around headless … fundamentally, it is worthless. Watch its fall shortly. I’ll happily remind you.

‘andy’, anyone can see obvious delusional behaviour. We just happened to acknowledge it publicly.

I like Ron Tonkin’s idea to issue a $2500 tax credit to buyers that purchase a vehicle from the domestic automakers.

There are only so many tax credits you can give

You can’t cut taxes on 95% of the people and pay them $2500 to buy a domestic car, which would be hundreds of Billions of dollars, and provide a stimulus package, and bail out the banks, and car makers, and give tax credits to small businesses per job created.

Not to mention we just spent $700 Billion dollars!!

Somebody has to pay for this, because it will be 2-3 years before we see any savings in leaving Iraq, and that will only save about 100 Billion annually

Let’s keep one foot on planet Earth.
DrFill

The US gov’t will have to intervene, just like they did in the early 80s to bail out Chrysler. The situation in 2008 … far worse since all 3 of the ‘big 3 domestics’ are in dire straits.

No one will argue the quality of domestic vehicles are vastly improved to the crap-mobiles they built in the 70s … but the years of neglect regarding quality over design has been the achilles heel for US manufacturers. The consumer’s opinion regarding quality is difficult to change. No one wants to use their hard earned money toward repairs on a product, so they have flocked to foreign manufacturers (what have you), so the US Big 3 have themselves to blame for this (not the union since the union puts together the parts … not design the parts).

Now … the question remains if or when the US gives the domestic Big 3 the money they desperately need. Although ‘right wing’ economics would tell you the gov’t should not intervene (ie Adam Smith fundamentals of a free market), it would devastate the US economy if that were allowed to happen. For this bail out package to work, the US automotive industry has to be included.

Protectionist programs such as tariffs on foreign cars or rebates to people who buy domestic vehicles is a short term “fix” … these policies do not sustain themselves in the long run and in fact, may hurt the auto industry. You make the product cheaper to the consumer but does not give incentive for the manufacturer to fix what’s wrong in the first place. Have you people not noticed why US cars have gotten so much more reliable? It’s because they were losing market share and were finally listening to what the customer wants! And more importantly, it brings the product to a price people will pay for. That’s how a free market works for society!

Wouldn’t work ZoomZoomer. People have to see the value beforehand which a tax credit merely enables them to take advantage of. Too many people simply refuse to believe years of quality reports showing the Accord and Camry well down the rankings in quality for midsize cars, behind domestic vehicles. They refuse to believe the Malibu, Cobalt, Sierra, Tahoe etc offer best-in-class fuel economy. It has also been suggested, numerous times, that a tax be placed on import-brand vehicles or products to fund pensions and healthcare. To be fair though and to avoid a trade war it needs to be imposed on every product and service sold, to relieve all American manufacturers of the retiree benefits, healthcare and pension obligations new competitors, importers and offshore service provides do not face, and to fund the impending shortfall in social security, thus benefiting all Americans. It wold mean the end of $10 toasters made in China, but may restore the market share of $15 toasters made in the USA. Plus you’d get less lead paint and heavy metals in your toys and less melamine and other suspect additives in your food and toiletries. (Retailers have replaced cheap American candy with slightly cheaper Chinese candy, putting dozens of companies out of business—but you’d have to be mad to eat it, as it could contain anything).

The US dollar may have little inherent value because of the attractiveness of US investment or goods at the moment, but unfortunately you still need to buy plenty if you want to acquire any other currency. You simply can’t trade Yen for Euros, You always have to buy dollars first. You can’t buy most major commodities with another currency. You must use dollars. No matter how little people want to buy US goods, or invest in the US, they must have dollars and lots of them to do any other trade. The $US dollar, no matter how poorly the US economy is doing or how able the US government and companies are of repaying their debt, will remain largely unaffected, as it has been made the de facto global currency. As such it remains a safe haven for investors, which is why it has risen despite all the bad news. It has risen because of all the bad news. As you can imagine, this has been terribly bad for US producers, not just now, but for decades. This must be changed if the US is to ever recover, but I do not see it happening.

Oh, and carmakers globally are struggling, not just the Detroit companies. BMW is cutting investment, Honda is cutting investment, Toyota is cutting investment, laying off workers worldwide and losing hundreds of millions of dollars in the US, and things could get worse still. VW not so long ago lost a billion dollars in the US, a lot of money when you consider how few cars they sell compared to the Big 3. Toyota has been building hundreds of thousands more cars than they sell for years. One wonders where they have all gone.

The companies have tens of billions of dollars in assets which they could mortgage to raise funds. Ford did so years ago, and a has a big cash hoard to work through, but the others can’t because no-one is lending. Congress authorized $25billion in funding for high-economy vehicle projects, but the money has not been made available. Pelosi, despite the letter, is extremely unlikely to support more funding for Detroit now that the election is over. If they run out of money before Obama takes office, too bad, they can always blame Bush (hence the letter), even though congress has to authorize any funding. She is not alone, and as speaker will probably get her way, although other democrats such as Dingell have a real concern about the effect on employment, national security and the survival of America’s middle class. GMAC and Ford Credit may reorganize as bank holding companies (which they actually are anyway) and qualify for support, but treasury has already ruled that the automakers themselves do not qualify under the package created by congress. Without further legislation by congress the
letter then is nothing more than an attempt to shift the blame: “We asked the treasury to give them money (just don’t ask us to give them the legal authority to do so). “

Impulsive…

The dollar has historically tracked on a 7-year up, 7-year down cycle, currently trending back on the upswing. Most experts expect the dollar to continue to strengthen over the next 2 quarters, as it has this quarter.

All you’ve provided is some silly chicken allegory. Do you have any data to back up your drivel? Please enlighten us…

(Note: thegriffon has also provided some nice data/insight into the dollar’s resiliency)

I’m with johnnycanuck. I love reading posts where people disagree, but put a lot of effort and thought in. Far more interesting!

I don’t know and don’t want to think about all this economic issue.
However, I would buy a german car over a us car any day, that’s what i know.

p.s. i drove a cadilac last month, and oh my god, the car is like floating. There is no sense of driving at all. The steering wheel is like, i don’t know, whatever…

Finally more people are seeing that the domestic automakers ARE making great cars and that their models really should be competitive in the segment. And Madcapp you are a F#%King moron if you are comparing GM and Ford to MB and BMW. Yeah they are really relevant segments. Cadillac is one of the stronger GM performers and is the least of their worries. That is the only competition for those brands. VW is the ONLY one in the marketplace that is CURRENTLY stable, and VWAG is godlike as far as im concerned and they are going to see the downturn very soon – I can guarantee you that. What happened to everyone saying toyota is so superior to GM and Ford? Now that the eye of the storm has actually hit their shores they are no longer being praised for being better? what happened everyone? exactly. the domestics are making the BEST cars theyve had in maybe forever and they deserve the help. If their products were just crap then fine, let them rot, but they are trying harder than any other companies out there right now.

even with the big 3’s (primarily gm’s and ford’s) improved product lines in the future, a big chunk of jobs are gone forever. the big 3 do not hold 50 % market share anymore, they are down to 30% and they may fall lower so there is no more need for x number of jobs (however many thousands of jobs that equals to, i don’t know 20%?) and then there are y number of jobs they need to cut for all the other reasons to weather the economic storm/ survive. basicly the american(big 3) car industry is not going to be “the economic back bone” to the states anymore as some refer to it, i mean even after the economic storm. i think ford and gm will survive. they will just shrink and that’s all that matters. chrysler? nobody really cares.

I think ford and GM will survive with or without any bale out cash from the government, they do seem to be at least heading in the right direction in terms of product, there are still some atrocities out there, Cadillac interiors for one ( the SRX I climbed in at the autoshow looked like it had been assembled by children), but given that these two have been scrapping it out in Europe and have had to raise their quality standards to match rivals like Peugeot/Citroen, Renault, SEAT, Fiat, Mini, Alfa Romeo as well as the VW’s Audi’s BMW’s and Mercedes. Chrysler, without a major partner is finished, the product they produce is the worst I think I have ever seen by a major automaker and having been involved in several of the current models I can tell you that its not through lack of effort on the part of the engineers, the whole culture in the company is wrong.
I do however see a rise in the cost of new vehicles in the USA, I don’t think that there is anywhere else in the world where vehicles are so cheap, even given the economies of scale of the US market I can’t see these low prices being maintained. Just for perspective, A new mid range 3 series BMW in the UK would cost approximately a years wages, here in the US, according to cars.com I can get a new 328i from as little as 35% of my years salary. Thats a huge saving.

BTW, go up and down their lineups, some companies are defintely making great cars. Some aren’t

Name a great car or truck Ford/Lincoln makes. F-150 gives up 70-80 HP to it’sa competition, and struggles with a 10k load towing. Overweight and underpowered, and it took a step back style-wise, but it has Microsoft Sync, so I guess it must be a great truck.
Ford is in no rush to get the new Fiesta or Focus here, evidence of bad management. The US is looking for great small cars, and Ford says wait 2 years. Nice!
Mustang wasn’t that good 4 years ago, and now with the Camaro, it’s done.
The Fusion Hybrid has a chance to be great, so that might get Ford up to one great car.
Ok.

Lincoln isn’t even worth mentioning. Overweight and underpowered is their slogan

Chryslers after Ram and Viper and Wrangler are mediocre. 300 is played-out.

GM is making the best domestic cars, but is the biggest posterchild for overpromising and underdelivering.

From Olds Achieva, to Chevy Blazer, to Cadillac Cimarron, to Pontiac Fiero, to the last Chevy Malibu, to C/K pickups that expplode in side-impacts, GM has cried wolf once too often, and has DRIVEN Americans to foreign makes. America just doesn’t like GM anymore. I think it is personal.

They have the most talent, and the least credibility of any domestic.

A tale of three baseball players

Chrysler primps itself in the mirror, hits a home run, or fouls a ball off their nards, then cries for a better contract with a 200 average.

Ford sits there and eats hot dogs, and chants USA. Jokes around. Swears and keeps everyone loose. Like a retard at the bowling alley, you don’t expect much, but cheer wildly when they make a good effort.
Can’t name a vehicle they make I’d even consider buying.

GM is the aging icon. Lied, cheated, and stole, but sits on top. A P. Diddy, if you will. Has access to talent and resources, but the puppets are smarter than the puppetmaster.
He has an on-again, off-again drug problem, and needs to be replaced by a younger, quicker, smarter player. But you can’t get rid of him because he is your best player

See Barry Bonds. Or the New York Mets. Acrfes of talent, but, wow, is something missing, and it ain’t money.

People just don’t like him. Has talent, but makes a bad first impression, and the second one’s a loo-loo.

Obama can write all the checks he wants, and try to get this AA meeting on track, but loser is as loser does. Management killed the US auto industry, with an assist from the unions.

Brand equity is the real problem. Their names are mud to the American consumer. Everybody else has just done it better, for decades. Better cars, better management, better strategy. Focused on the consumer.

Chrysler doesn’t make the best minivans anymore.
Ford doesn’t make the best LD pick-up anymore.
GM doesn’t make the best luxury cars anymore.

What did you think was going to happen?

DrFill

Too much government intervention; too much good money to be thrown after bad; too late to make a real difference as the government and the US car manufacturers will have to gamble on yet unproven vehicles that have no historic record of residual value, maintenance history, or consumer confidence. These bailouts, as this is what they are, will not work. What will happen is that those in the car companies that see the trouble will simply line their pockets, along with their cronies with US taxpayer dollars, and be comfy before it all hits the fan.
.
I would love to think the US dollar is forever the benchmark for currency trading, but there are countries out there today trying to change all that as they see what the dollar is now founded upon versus what people would like to believe. America needs to roll-up its sleeves and start doing the correct thing versus selling its propaganda. It is not as if the US cannot do so as we have done so before, but the black hole of bailouts will achieve very little to nothing other than the false sense that it will save the day, and money thrown away for naught.
.
There was a time when this country actually paid its dues, now it wants to pawn them off on others—in this case the US taxpayer. Good to see the car company shills onboard here as they love to spread their propaganda thick as cow-s-h-i-t.

Who are the automakers going to sell cars to after we give them our money?

We should take a lesson from China. With a $3.5 trillion economy, they invest cash in their country which will result in an increase in consumer spending and create a demand for goods and services which will cause prices to rise and put more people to work.

With a $14 trillion economy, we borrow and give $2.5 trillion to the banks who sit on it which will cause more companies to fail, more people to be laid off, fewer goods and services to be purchased, and prices to drop.

Someone paid attention in class and someone didn’t or was it the $32 million that the poor banks spent on campaigns to get the bank bailout bill passed. When the population recovers and starts buying things again, the banks will start handing out the money and it will cause inflation.

We deserve it. We re-elected the people who voted for the bill.

http://ewebsmith.com/finance/financeindex.html

Let’s compare apples to apples
That’s like comparing New York City to Utah
China is just starting to figure out what a car is, what a road can be.
Forget that they are a communist regime!
DrFill

If our country helps the Big 3, it’ll be only the second time in recent history that they’ve done so (Chrysler in the 80’s), but it’s something that foreign countries do with their auto companies every year. It’s no wonder they have such a big advantage. Our country has always (pretty much) been, if ya fail your done. But over seas they help their own.
Whether it’s right or wrong, I feel it’s fair to help out our companies.

I’m opposed to this bailout

simonc: well f*cking said. Everyone who wants to see the Big 3 fail and still live in the U.S. should GTFO!

DrFill, I would tear every bit of your comment apart, but I don’t think it’s worth it. So lets just look at what you’ve said about Ford…

Name a great car or truck Ford/Lincoln makes.
Focus, F-series, E-series, Explorer, Expedition, Fusion, Mustang. They’re all class leading or near class leading.

F-150 gives up 70-80 HP to it’sa competition, and struggles with a 10k load towing. Overweight and underpowered, and it took a step back style-wise, but it has Microsoft Sync, so I guess it must be a great truck.

Overweight and underpowered? I own an older F-150 that weighs about the same as the new one, and about 3/4ths the power. I’ve also driven the most recent F-150. It’s not underpowered, you just assume it is because Dodge and Tundra offer near 400-hp figures. Truth be told, Toyota’s current standard transmission was never made to take 400 hp without modifications.

And most people don’t need 10,000 pounds of towing. F-150 is still class leading in that respect. Looks is your opinion, but I like the F-150’s styling. Evolution over revolution.

Ford is in no rush to get the new Fiesta or Focus here, evidence of bad management. The US is looking for great small cars, and Ford says wait 2 years. Nice!

Demand is once again changing. After this, it will change again, and I can guarantee their outlook will change. The new Fiesta only just came out. I would agree that 2 years is too long however. The Focus is due to come out with a major update/redesign in only one or two years. They just came out with the new one, so this should be good news.

Mustang wasn’t that good 4 years ago, and now with the Camaro, it’s done.

Who says the Mustang wasn’t good four years ago? And the Camaro is going to cost thousands more, while we don’t know most of the details about the new Mustang.

The Fusion Hybrid has a chance to be great, so that might get Ford up to one great car.
Ok.

Yes, and all of Fords other hybrids are doing fairly well also. The Ford Escape hybrid has always done very well.

Lincoln isn’t even worth mentioning. Overweight and underpowered is their slogan

MKS, MKX is great. They have a few products in the pipeline. I’m willing to wait and see.

jayjc08, don’t be so hard on the good Doctor. Every so often he has to empty that vacuum cleaner bag he calls a brain and that’s why so much dust comes out. It’s also mildly amusing to see someone who whiffs on every post attempt a baseball analogy.

JC isn’t worth responding to.

Jay makes an attempt at defending Ford, but he can’t even convince himself that they are competitive. When you say Lincolns are great, you lose all credibility. If they are great, your standards are mighty low. Mediocrity breeds mediocrity.

After spending three years in Ford myself, I am more than happy to leave them in my rearview mirror.

I’ll refrain from asking if you know what class-leading means.

DrFill

‘Architect’, you and ‘griffon’ are out to lunch.

Why has the US dollar ALREADY fallen to .7100USDX if it’s SO fundamentally worth something? And that won’t be the bottom. It will break .70 to .62 and eventually to .52 all within three years, maybe much sooner.

For me to argue with the SHIAT you both have posted is an insult to intelligence. Neither of you have a clue. Watch as it unfolds before your eyes. You’ll get your clue and you’ll get the answers you seek. At least buy gold and save your a$$e$ since you can’t save your brains.

Impulsive – yet again, you have given no reasons, only your predictions. Give us a reason to believe you.

Well, the government already f’d it up by doing a bailout in the first place for the mortgage companies. Might as well not screw it up twice. Just put the automakers in there. They don’t know how they are going to spend it anyways to help. Somehow they got $700 billion passed without a plan, and I guess, and arbitrary number…

The Big 3 will get the aid. The UAW is too important to the dems to have them all lose their jobs on the donkey-watch. It’s that simple. Letting the Big 3 die overnight has the serious potential to add up to 5 million people to the unemployment roles via direct jobs, supplier and sub-supplier jobs, and the jobs created when those people spend their money. It’s cheaper to pay a bail-out than it pay unemployment to all those people and also forego their income taxes.

Am I for the bail-out? Not really, but the germans certainly protect their domestics pretty well, and so do the Japanese, and China takes the cake when it comes to protecting the locals (via mandatory partnerships, severe limitations on repatriation of earnings, and heavy import tariffs). See also the article with the Aussies injecting funds. No I don’t like this stuff, but it seems to be the only way to keep the field slightly level in tho tough times. I agree I would tie the loan guarantees to certain performance objectives regarding new product (basically mpg and emissions) and thus it becomes a take-it-or-leave-it deal for the automakers, plus of course limitations on bonuses and exec pay, and if the execs accept the bail-outs then those limitations should be transferred to any future jobs they hold at any company until the bail-outs are repaid in full (that way the individual execs take the long-term heat for their crappy decisions).

Also, since everyone else gets bailed out by me and the other productive citizens, from losers in California who buy houses they can’t afford to the idiot bankers who dont know business to the morons who get knocked up because they cant control their biologicval urges long enough to use a condom, then why not GM & Ford? GM & Ford have proven they can do the job right everywhere else on earth, but just not here.

So the US taxpayer is now in the business of subsidizing failure and incompetence?

Any bailout aid should come with BIG strings attached. First and foremost the executives that ruined GM and Chrysler should be forced to resign AND to forfeit their Golden Parachutes. Every single penny! Second they must present a plan to actually start making money again. Pouring more cash into the furnace is not an option.

The only exception would be Ford, they have new management and they appear to have a PLAN to turn the company around. Then again I don’t think Ford really needs bailout bucks anyway, they mortgaged the farm before the banks went bust. Ford has a nice pile of cash to keep operating. I think they are showing up at the party looking for free money just because they can.

‘Architect’, the reason is staring at you in the face … it’s the answer to the question I asked in my last post.

I don’t care about your disbelief. I know what is coming and it gets worse. This is only the beginning.

Keep posting here for the next nine months and we’ll discuss things along the way.

$1250 gold is the target.

Why is that people are ignoring the obvious about the US car industry. Most sections of GM and Frod make money, the bits that don’t are the US sections. GM make acceptable cars in Europe, Ford make some good cars in Europe, they make bad cars and petrol heavy bricks in the US. The European Ford Focus looks a heck of a lot better than the US one. The european engines are economical, whats the problem with them acceptng they need to draw the american model in line with cars used across the rest of the world.

The days of muscle cars (crude fast in a striaght line ones) and trucks (never saw the point) are over, the management in Ford and GM did not see the cahnges that were comming and did not react to them. I’d suggest you need to look at the unions and management to figure out why things got as bad as they have. GM and Ford should bring in knowledge and models from thier europe operations and stop making vehicles that people can’t afford to run.

I drove some American cars last year and to be frank they are poor uncomfortable cars. I’ll stick with Audi and Mercs thanks. In fact I’d rather drive a british spec Mondeo than any amerian ford.

I’m not in favor of a bailout for the Big Three unless they fire their executives. Chysler was bailed out over 25 years ago and they still continued to build crap cars (K Car, Omni). They started to turn things around 10 years ago but focused too haevly on SUVs and trucks because they were profitable. GM is finally turning it around with the Malibu. and CTS. I’m not sure you bail them out because history has shown they they will revert to their own bad habits.

Lots of discussion going on, so we’ll see what I can squeeze into the tail end of a lunch break….

First, fundamentally, I’m opposed to the $700B bailout, but mostly just because I have been struggling and am still making my mortgage payments, at the sacrifice of other non-necessities (I still pine for an S2000 on a warm fall evening….). A less disciplined Scarface03 with the same job, etc., might be in a position to get help at the cost of the taxpayers, but that’s not me.

Still, when America’s economy teeters on the brink of collapse, the world holds its breath. We need ecnoomic stability, so the bailout is probably a necessary evil.

The U.S. auto industry is in a similar situation. Sure, better management and a conscious effort to divorce itself from legacy costs years ago might have made things better. Maybe even avoid the current crisis. But right now the Big 3 are hurting. Rumors abound that Cerberus has approached Daimler to buy up the remaining 19.9% of Chrysler. In these times, that can only mean that Cerberus wants the bill of sale to be free-and-clear.

And if GM buys up Chrysler, we will not have one company with the power and influence of 2. It will be a merger of hurting companies, with wholesale cost-cutting and product reduction going on. It will be a sad time for the U.S. auto industry.

So, if the taxpayers are going to bailout anyone, why not bailout the company that might be making my future Camaro SS or Shelby Mustang? I’d prefer that to bailing out the dumbass at the end of my block with a part-time job who bought the house with a full basement because a mortgage company said he could….

A question for some of the posters: What is the likelyhood a group of investors, along with the UAW, could purchase any of the Big Three?

Impulsive – again, yet again, you give no straight answer. You said the “reason” is the answer to the question in your last post. So, what is the answer to your own question, since you didn’t offer one? By the way, gold is down about 50% from mere months ago. Please provide some rationale as to why the dollar is a poor investment. You have no credibility with until you can defend your position.

Correction (typo)…gold is down about 30%.

On a Canadian dollar basis (I think Impulsive is Canadian) gold is actually down close to 50% off ti’s peak.

I am Canadian.

‘Architect’, why did gold go to $1032 in March? Why did the dollar fall to .71 USDX?

The answers will explain why gold will go to $1250 near-term. I am not here to explain to you, in detail, everything you want to know. If you cannot figure out the answers to these questions, you deserve to suffer. Do your homework. I’ve already given you the lottery numbers, now play them and win. The difference between a two year old who asks WHY, WHY, WHY and an adult who finds the answer to WHY is the gap you have to bridge.

I couldn’t care less whether I have credibility with you. I know I’m right and you’ll see how foolish you are when things come to pass. Ignorance is bliss … keep it up.

Impulsive – I suppose this is getting way off topic, and I really don’t care who’s right or wrong. I’m just pointing out that if you’re going to make an argument, the first rule is to back it up. Defend it. Prove your point. You still haven’t done that. As such, no one has any reason to believe you.

Intelligent people would have solved the great mystery you have yet to uncloak. There is no debate about who is right or wrong. I will, yet again, show to all that I post FACT here where the rest of these chimps are clueless about most issues.

When gold does what I FACTUALLY state it will do, you can look back and kick yourslef as to why you didn’t understand what is so simple to see.

Please go back and read AGAIN my last post as you seem to be spinning your tires on this one. I don’t care whether anyone believes me … get it throught your thick skull. I am right and that’s all that matters. Your view or anyone else’s does NOT matter.

Impulsive – I’ll have to give it to you, you’ve done a better job of proving my point than I have.

What’s that? The FACT that you have the mental capacity of a two year old who only knows how to ask WHY WHY WHY?

Yup, I do a good job at everything I do. Buy gold.