Sounds like typical political narrow-mindedness. It’s better to prop up a seriously dying US automaker then a US automaker with an alliance with a foreign automaker (which might actually allow it to survive in the long-run). Go figure.

i agree with senator menendez. i do NOT want my tax dollars being spent on a foreign owned corporation.

On the subject of not making the taxpayers money not going to waste, that didn’t stop Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey from being one of the loudest voices in favor of a salary hike for all senators.

They don’t own it Jordan

If these senators want to do something, it’s not a matter of who owns/controls or where the execs reside… it’s more a matter of the commitment they have to the American workforce. If any foreign company wants U.S. aid, they should be open to it as long as they commit to building a rash of product on U.S. shores using U.S.-sourced parts… whether from their own manufacturing plants for said parts, or from U.S. companies that deal in the auto industry with U.S. manufacturing and assembly a major criteria. For every car with 90% U.S. content or greater, they should be eligible for x-amount of funding. For every car line with 90% or greater U.S. content, they should be eligible for another tier of funding. If they export product worldwide from U.S. factories, with 90% or greater U.S. domestic sourced content… that should make them eligible for additional funding. For every car manufacturer agreeing to work towards higher MPG cars to help ween the U.S. dependency off of foreign oil, and agreeing to build said products in the U.S. for U.S. and foreign consumption… they could then be eligible for another funding tier. Rather than give out free hand outs to a bunch of companies that are likely to be dictated on what they can/can’t build, what brands they can/can’t keep, to me it makes more sense to keep all of the brands afloat by whatever financial aid they can… and keep even more competition in the marketplace regardless of where the headquarters are located, as long as they have a strong commitment to the United States in terms of manufacturing and assembly, a commitment to helping export product abroad to increase U.S. manufacturing viability, and to help make the U.S. a far more sound market for it’s people.

The point here is… don’t hate on who owns them, hate on those seeking to dodge out on U.S. labor laws by building across the borders. For that; GM, Ford, and Chrysler are all equally as much non-deserving of U.S. funding while some imports have INCREASED their U.S. workforce and U.S. product content even as the American companies have diminished. Even our own government is pulling the wool over people’s eyes as they count Canadian-sourced product as American when most U.S. citizens that are that nationalistic that they want an U.S. sourced car with U.S. content are led to believe that their cars are American (U.S.) when they are Canadian. Even Mexico or Brazil by that standard could be considered American since they live on one of the two continents with “America” in the name. That is not the definition of “American” that most U.S. car buyers are looking for. That’s not to be hating on the Canadians, the Mexicans, etc… but for as much crap is spewed on here in a racist fashion, it’s rather humorous when you see “Buy American” lemmings standing in line to buy a product that might *say* it’s American, but that doesn’t mean it’s the same definition of American that they walked into the dealership waving their little flag over. What they want is stars and stripes… what they’re getting in return could be more of a Maple Leaf or Red/White/Green affair instead.

complain about giving them money then complain about them trying to get through this by forming alliances. i dont f**kin understand it.

@IVIIVI4ck3y27, sorry not buying it. Keeping companies afloat for the sake of keeping them afloat is a vile waste of US taxpayer money; nothing more than a monetary cancer. Americans need to place more money in its educational system and less money into financial abysses.

Isn’t Jersey a foreign land? bada bing

@Mutant@DCX, damn, now that’s funny!

“POSTED BY:
Lariat Luxury Locomotive Liner No.3
@IVIIVI4ck3y27, sorry not buying it. Keeping companies afloat for the sake of keeping them afloat is a vile waste of US taxpayer money; nothing more than a monetary cancer. Americans need to place more money in its educational system and less money into financial abysses.”

Don’t get me wrong or read me wrong on this, I don’t disagree with you…

But…

It’s being done and since it is… it at least ought to remain fair. Chrysler is just as American, even in a Fiat buyout, in many ways than GM or Ford is. After all, both of those companies have had a larger “World” investment going back to the early 1900’s. Manufacturing has existed in Europe and Asia for both companies for almost a century now.

I mean, I don’t particularly think anyone should be bailed out (I’m a Libertarian by nature if that tells you anything), at least not the financial institutions’ and their workers that screwed the whole thing up in the first place and maybe even the people that bit off more than they could chew by signing into mortgages without checking the terms and the interest rates and calculating whether or not they could truly afford it. Yet if we’re going to bail everyone out including 2 automakers that are selling everyone down the river already and have been for years… I don’t see what’s wrong with giving the same allowance to the 3rd. Hell, considering that Honda and Toyota and Nissan, etc. have been some of the few to “increase” their domestic content from non-existant in the 70’s to where they’re at now today, they might actually deserve the $ more than the Big 3 do.

I don’t give a rat’s ass who owns Chrysler, the incentives should be about getting an increase in manufacturing in the U.S. from all 3 and about embracing ways forward to help the U.S. long-term, of which… new technologies and an effort to ween us off of foreign oil = one of the ways. We might not ever see the President’s and CEO/CFO’s of the Big 3 showing up in Washington with a big ol’ checkbook giving us repayment (even if they were to turn it around), but if we put more people to work and guarantee industrial might… then at least we get something back for it and that could potentially be more valuable anyhow as more of us might actually *SEE* the benefits, rather than see the politicians in Washington spend it on something else completely pork barrel. Giving cash to GM, Ford, or Chrysler so they can continue to use labor from Canada, Mexico, and Brazil (all 3 which exist in the America’s… that’s not to mention the increasing growth in China, Russia, and other areas of Europe and Asia) and skew their domestic content ratings, with the help of the Feds, by classifying these “other Americans” as the same as those that live Stateside and that are watching their economy get plundered via colossal debts and national counterfeiting to me is flat-out worse.

If you’re going to bail out *ANY* of the big three, the incentives should be to open plants in the U.S., to increase the # of jobs, to use U.S. sourced parts, built in U.S. factories, in U.S. car assembly plants all of which are filled by U.S. workers. It should be to increase our dependence on foreign intervention, petroleum being a key element (whether we find a way to mass produce synthetics, work on large scale Ethanol, Hydrogen, or even putting in an electric grid… [which I agree, I'd prefer to see privatization vs. a state-owned grid]) and trying to further our country by increased jobs, advancement in technology, and by independence. One of the #’s that declined for years is the # of U.S. factories as more and more of our companies have pushed production overseas, often in 3rd world countries, and often in regions of the world where civil labor rights aren’t adhered to on the same level as the U.S., Europe, and other parts of the world.

Errr… increase our independence on foreign intervention is what it should say in the last paragraph above.

With MERCEDES-BENZ looking to unload CHRYSLER shares and FIAT only seeking 35%, I would not be too quick to cut any cords. So quick to hurt than help, a true Republican behavior. If you got a better idea then propose one rather than looking to hurt someone for your own fleeting gain. Helping Foreign companies who are getting help from their own governments and not helping those in your own country. I can already see another DEMOCRATIC and/or INDEPENDENT sweep next election cycle.

Since FIAT has not spent any money on this partnership, I would not be surprised if CHRYSLER tried to get FIAT to buy out MERCEDES-BENZ without increasing their share.

This “Free Market” dogma is not working and trying so hard to hang on to it when it clearly is not helping is just stupid.

Just hold on and stop being such a churlish child. Let’s give them a chance to work this mess out. CHRYSLER knows what kind of a gun they are looking down the barrel of. Let them work and stop expecting instant results. If the world really worked that way the “War of Terror” would have been over in 3 months or less.

Here is perspective from a foreign land: New Jersey. Senator Menendez never runpolitical campaign for Senate and received his seat when His Majesty Governor Corzine bought NJ Governorship for about 60 million bucks. For his seat Senator Corzine paid 50 million bucks.

Menendez is a poor schmuck from wrong side of the tracks. He knows that next Senator has to have a war chest for the the Seante seat war of at least 20-30 millions. He does not have even third of it. Cerberus is in NYC and Cerberus CEO Feinberg lives in NYC. But a lot of execs do live in NJ. He is shaking them up for campaign contribution. Basically, as I see it, if serious money is not flowing into his war chest from Cerberus via proxies who live or do biz in NJ, the deal goes south. Feinberg is in the serious hole with ChryCo and if FIAT walks he is screwed with 6 foot foot for a long time. He will pay and Menendez will not complain.

What makes me think so? A months ago when I inquired why NJ senator (Menendez) support bailout of GM & Ford the companies which deserted state of NJ, I received reply that in NJ 60 thousand people are benefit from auto industry. Now the same senator says that 1/3 to 1/4 of those beneficiaries are not of his concern?

Aurivederchi, my foreign friends

POSTED BY:
Blakkarr

Just hold on and stop being such a churlish child. Let’s give them a chance to work this mess out. CHRYSLER knows what kind of a gun they are looking down the barrel of. Let them work and stop expecting instant results. If the world really worked that way the “War of Terror” would have been over in 3 months or less.

Like I said, if GM and Ford are going to receive bailout $, Chrysler should to. It is of *LITTLE* importance where the national headquarters is of a company and more important what they’re doing to help your country. That is why, while I’m no fan of bailouts… our country is already full of them. What do you ultimately think the U.S. Welfare system is? How about Medicare? Those are longstanding bailouts/supports.

If a merger with Fiat can help Chrysler make the most of their bailout $, I say more power to them. If it means we get the 500 and MiTo… splendid. Granted, I still think one of the requirements of the bailout should be the shifting away from Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and other North American/South American countries being lumped in with the U.S. when it comes to domestic product. I also think that to receive the larger sums of the bailout $ there should be a large list of requirements to be met. I’ve addressed many of those concerns prior. My theory, as I said before, is that since we’re obviously going to bail them out since that’s already been pushed through even though many of us might not agree with it… we might as well make the bailout stand for something and have a greater potential to benefit a portion of the people of the U.S., as well as to help build up our economy for the future. Even using U.S. production for worldwide consumption is a tremendous benefit. It helps increase our exports which as a country, is beneficial to the U.S. overall. You always prefer to export more product than you import, if at all possible.

I’m also a huge proponent of new legislation to allow the U.S. automakers to open up union restrictions. Anyone that wants to sign up for a U.S. automaker as a non-union worker should have that right to be able to do so. The Big 3 (and for that matter… any automakers… including the import companies that set up shop here, which should still be encouraged and perhaps even rewarded) should have the ability to set up wholly non-union plants to a certain degree to smooth out the ebb/flow between unionized and non-union workers. It’ll keep the UAW honest in their negotiations and help prevent some of the ridiculous and cancerous contract requirements that they, somehow, blindsided the automakers executive staffs with. I don’t want to see the abolishing of unions as I do think they have their place, but I think that requiring GM, Ford, and Chrysler to go completely unionized only puts them in a perilous situation that doesn’t help them as a company and quite frankly, hurts the U.S. economy. Our government is set up on checks and balances, and I firmly believe the auto industry needs some (it’ll improve flexibility and efficiencies and give an air of freedom to manufacturing stateside). That said, as a Libertarian (generally are very against centralized governing which is against what our forefather’s are for), I still think we need regulation with regard to derivatives to prevent the fuel price gouging that occurred in the last couple of years. When companies like Morgan Stanley and others are controlling the price of petroleum as much or more than an Exxon-Mobil, Citgo, BP/Amoco, et al… something is HIGHLY wrong with the system.

Grrr… Chrysler should too. (first paragraph) Not to.

Here’s your zoo key President Obama. If you think this guy’s annoying just wait until all the animals rattle their cage at the same time.

Why would fiat buy Chrysler? To make money, correct? If so, then they need to pull more american dollars out of the country than they put in. The only way we come out ahead is if the cars that they manufacture here are sold in another country.

But obviously this Meendeezzz has no problem when his lame-duck bailed-out US companies asks for government aid from other countries… Stupid hypocrite…

Fiat wants the partnership with Chrysler because they have wanted to return to US for a long time but the cost to start up the infrasturcture for sales (esp in this economy) is too costly. By joining up with Chrysler, they get access to already established dealer networks and distribution. Keep in mind that these dealings have been going on behind the scenes for quite some time, most likely before any talk of formal bailout came about. Also, where Chysler is lagging behind is in efficient powertrains and small cars. That’s where Fiat help come in. I don’t think they can afford to just rebadge Fiats as Chrysler to make their money either. Look at what’s happening to GM. The Euro models that they import as Chevy and Saturns are struggling financially because they the labor is Euro and they make more. The way for GM, Ford and Chrysler/Fiat to make their profits will be to take the tooling and designs from Europe and build the models in North American plants.

Personally, I’d love to see what the Chrysler/Fiat could pull out together. Chrysler has had some phenomenal concept cars in the last couple of years, ones that would interest me. If they have more modern mechanical and powertrains. This could be their second salvation.

Senator Menendez, While you’re recouping the money sent to Chrysler for our taxpayer burdens, could you also get us the money back for the Toyota, Honda, etc factories that were built here in the US using our tax dollars. I also want my money back from AIG, NOW!

This whole deal of the “bailout” is the front for the goverment grab of the manufacturing sector so they can control what is built for the “masses” under the leadership of the “car czar” and is evidenced by many things, first and foremost is Ford’s structure and unwillingnes to play which in retalliation Barney the fag’s committee leaked terms of the requested line of credit regarding the sale of Volvo. Secondly the actual terms of the GM, Chrysler loan, strike clause, time line, super stock requirement. Make no mistake about it the powers that be and even some on this blog do not want you to have a choice as to what you can drive, they want “gas guzzlers” gone. With Chrysler under foreign control it greatly diminishes any hope for a “Car Czar” that would have any credible power to direct product or the dismantle of unions. Again what the Congress and Senate tried to do to Ford and Mulally borders on unconstitutional, I truely believe as I watched the hearings and the political manuvering that the ultimate goal was and still is the removal of freedoms in what we can drive, only the Ford family is the fly in the ointment for now. Good for Cerebus…..F%$# the Senator dumb ass……got out smarted by those guys who can’t run a private company

wbent – Problem is that folks who have been in government think that anything can be ruled by committee. Industry doesn’t work that way and those that try usually fail. I agree, I think Mullaly is on the right track with Ford and it’s good that he negotiated the funds to be used if Ford gets to the point of desparation like GM. I think he can steet them away from that (at least for now) and that Ford will be a better/stronger company for it. I’m also one who can see the potential benefit for both Chrsyler and Fiat if things are do right. The company I think may be in the most trouble will be GM because they had to dig into the funds so soon and therefore will be under the tightest of scrutiny. I’m betting they’ll either be forced to make super deep cuts or the money will be recalled. Either will result in severe scars for them.

Well, that’s rich considering the same people want to float $1000 to people (most of whom don’t even pay taxes) only to see 80% of that money spent on products made in China, or oil imported from people who want to kill us. At least Italy doesn’t fall into that category – yet. I thought the whole point of these bailouts was to save jobs, and this clearly will, and a LOT more efficiently than the proposed $1T “stimulus” plan they also cream their pants over… If it weren’t so serious, I’d be laughing.

I move for cliff notes of these novels some people are posting. I mean honestly… why.

Oh my gosh do you people seriously expect anyone to read your 5 page long answers? Keep it short and simple./\

Bada Bing,Bada Boom!

I could care less how Senator Robert Menendez got his seat or how he acts, what i do care about is what he said. i don’t want my tax dollars going to a company who is going to form an alliance with another foreign company. That, to me, show’s how much they care about their role in the domestic world called the US! fnck off chrysler…go live with FIAT and make little fiat pandas!!

Good, he’s a credible source of reasoning, especially since he’s on the Senate Banking Committee, the ones that didn’t see this #$^#^’n mess come up so fast in the first place and bite us all in the a$$.