“accused of blatant protectionism”

Do you think???
Really???

Remember that saying – “what goes around comes back around”. Is it really a good idea when you consider that GM and Ford most profitable companies (at the moment) are all not in america. What they are doing is actually putting the final nail in the coffin.

Plus non-domestic companies can always find a way around like Aquiring or merging with the big three.

Ahhhh … your democratic congress at work again.

Wouldn’t it be funny if the rest of the world put up taxes only on american cars

I don’t think this is an issue. What’s going to get taxed? The Benz ML made in Alabama, or the Camry made in Kentucky?

Aside from cars like Ferraris and Porsches, this is too convoluted to enforce.

I’m not sure this would really effect import branded cars created in the US. Isn’t Honda officially American Honda Motor Co? They ARE a US based company for all intensive purposes.

The only way I can see to enforce this is a tax only on cars not produced in the US. This wouldn’t work as many Ford and GM’s are produced in Canada and Mexico under NAFTA.

If we really want to protect US interests, we would not allow auto makers to hide all their profits in tax exempt “free trade zones” in Latin America. Ever wonder why your water pump is 300 dollars OEM? They hide profits in corporate owned factory somewhere else…..Taxing that would be the best thing the US could do to protect US jobs.

Please don’t assume that a trade restriction will have any real negative effect of positive effect. Anyone remember the “Harley Tax” in the early 80’s on any imported motorcycle over 750cc? The japanese just slightly reworked the displacement on the same motors, increased the HP of the new 700cc models and kept right on rolling….dont see too many Honda, Suzuki, and Yamaha crusiers out there do you?

This would be blatant protectionism, but it’s no different than any other country taxing imports. Look at Japan with U.S. autos…

This is true HoosierHero. It pisses me off when the US says “ok enough is enough, lets do something to protect ours” and everyone gets all worked up in a big old burt hurt party and goes “thats not fair!” Look at Austrailia for example, they dont even let people migrate there, and I’ve never heard anyone say anything bad about it. Yet, the US is trying to make it easier for people to move here because immigration became an issue and no one wants to hurt anyones feelings and just say “look, youre from mexico, we have too many people here, please stay away.”

musclemustang94, if you’ve spent some time there you’d realize unless you’re some 60 year old who’s retiring, the damn place is so barren and empty with some sporadic racist whites here and there. Check out the process of buying and selling a house in AUS and you’ll realize the system is set up totally one sided against new comers. Regardless, if you’re a real car enthusiast you can’t bear to live there anyway due to the very strict speeding laws.

People are bitching about US getting tougher on the immigration issue simply because there are too many damn mexicans living there already. Of course they want their family to come over and live off the social security. Everything for the sake of anti-discrimination… we don’t want to offend the latinos in our ghettos.

I was just using AUS as an example of a country with very strict immigration laws. I never said I wanted to live there….except I do want an FPV Falcon

so… is this going to make american cars sell better?

This seems fishy

This would put the kibosh on Ford bringing Euro models over then too, even if Ford is deemed a US company.

I have to say this is one of the dumbest ideas that’s come out on here for quite some time. What other stupid ideas does your Government come up with?
Star a war?

Oh.. hang on… umm…

“so… is this going to make american cars sell better?”

LOL, I can see the great minds in Washington thinking so. For me, it’ll be “Can I afford that Toyota now?” or “xxxx, I have to buy a Hyundai!”

“xxxx, I have to buy a Hyundai!”

No they’ll say “Damn, I have to credit a Saturn”

They shoiuld just outright ban imports of cars.

I’ve got a complicated idea for that, but it would work and cost no american jobs

If you read the article, it says “Foreign badged cars”. This would include TOYOTA, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, BMW and the like, regardless of whether or not the car was made on US soil or not.

FORD and GM, and Chrysler (who makes most of their stuff in Canada and Mexico) would not be effected.

But Protectionism? I would have to agree with the immediate implications of such a bill. I do think that it would effect foreign investment in the US, which is one reason why this bill may not pass. The problem is getting a fair and reasonable share of that money through taxation that does not penalize foreign companies. Of course, one cent above what is now would upset most of theses companies.

But there is the more pressing problem of domestic companies being taxed out the butt to bring some of the money they make overseas home and invest it back into the US. The rate is high and the tax code for it is painfully complex. FORD, let’s say, makes a killing in Europe and wants to build some new factories or some such in the US, but sees how much they will loss to taxes compared to how much Mercedes -Benz or Toyota would have to spend to set up a new factory and Ford simply says, forget it we’ll keep the money over in Europe or we’ll go to China.

this is uncalled for…

“They shoiuld just outright ban imports of cars.”

Yeah, and domestic automakers shouldn’t be allowed to peddle anywhere outside of the US.

We should also ban all sales of foreign oil here in the US as well.

Is there a special election right now in Michigan that the dems need to garner votes on? This BS will never fly, but some people will think
….. “yah, dey doin tings fo’ me so dat eye git uhhhh guuuuud job. Dem foren
……. bastids dey dont deeeserve da work dey juss wanna skroo da merican
……. peeps. Duhhhhhhh. Me vote democrat.”

If you had read the article it says all subsidaries of foreign companies… regardless if those subsidaries are based in the US.

It’s sort of hypocritic to me. Ford’s strongest sales are in Europe right now, not in the US. Although it’s most potential value is to be met in the US, it’s making more profit in Europe.

So ban/tax companies that are making a profit that are foreign based? That’s not the solution…
If this went through, and let’s say they banned Ford and GM from the European market, we would most likely have no car market at all in the US.

Those are the politicians that you voted for…so…it’s really your voice.

Garbage:

We should stop worshiping these foreign oil companies. There’s oil here, too

head: what kind of racist “ebonical” **** is that?

jJay:

Honda and toyota wouldn’t give up the market.
Part of my complicated plan would allow you to buy a foreign-built cvar abrouad and import it yourself. People would do that with a Ferrari, not with a toyota

Elvio:

I didn’t vote for those criminals

JackJim, nothing at all racist about it, senor.
You might look at that and think “pimp” but I can hear dumb white trash talk that way all day. Just because someone substitutes a “D” for a “TH” or types “fo’ ” for “for” doesn’t mean they are playing race. People of every persuasion talk that way, and if you don’t see that you need to look around a bit more.

i think this bill probably wouldnt even make it out of committee.

Head:

I live in sothern california.

Used to live in nebraska

that sounded like some stereotypical dumb detroit aoutoworker who thinks the white man owes him something

I’m not sure that this was targeted at the auto industry. I’m pretty sure our congress, as always, was trying to protect something else but made the wording too vague and it encompassed all foreign investment.

Stopping foreign investment (in any form) here would be the stupidest thing we can do right now. The U.S. economy is surviving because the world economy is booming. We supported the world through the last world recession, and now they’ve got our back. Not intentionally, it’s just how the markets work.

I hate politics, and politicians even more.

Other countries do it why can’t we? Its always this do as I say not as I do bull****… We can do it but America better not. I say all is fair in love, war and auto sales =P

So JackJim, autoworkers are a specific race to you?
You did say “racist ebonical” did you not?
Racist = race, ebonical = black?
Is it now politically correct to say “Autoworker-American?”

I was unaware that all autoworkers are black but I guess since you are from Nebraska and southern Cal that makes you the expert on this mysterious “autoworker race.” Oh, and mind you, not all autoworkers are from Detroit the last I checked, not that it matters because the last I checked Detroit also has diversified beyond the mysterious “autoworker race” about which you seem to be an expert.

Must be like, righteously awesome JimJack-dude, to like, be from Nebraska and soCal dude, because you like, know like everything ’bout the autoworker race & ****, dude.

“The tax proposal is designed to discourage foreign investment in the U.S.”.

That’s brilliant — tax Toyota, Honda, M-B for producing their import brand vehicles in the US and employing American workers. Who will employ these people when said carmakers decide to import 100% of their product instead of pay the tax?

R-head:

lots of black folks came to detroit from the South to work in auto plants (equal pay eith whites)

when people want to disparage american auto workers now, they often portray them as picaninnies or something.

I was actually born in Michigan and lived in nebraska 5 years.

The detroit metro area is heavily segregated

you are sooooooooooooooooooooo bogus, like gag me with a torque wrench

“Detroit autoworker,” in this context means a UAW member who builds personal vehicles.

Robert:

Foreign investment is not a bad thing. Foreign debt ….

RetartedHead,It looks like English, but I can’t understand a word, You must be a retarted to understand stuff like that, When anyone starts talking to me like that on the street i just want to punch him in the face. and just so you know i hear alot of black and white people talk like a retarted rapper, The fact that no one understands you doesn’t mean you’re a retarted rapper it just means your a retarted person that no one can understand.

I was actually portraying the general Michigan electorate (jokingly). I wasn’t even thinking autoworker, although every jackoff politician knows what sounds good for the domestic car industry will favorably influence Michigan voters. The joke to me is that politicians think we voters are a “retarted” (sic) as I wrote that.

So the “imports” built in America will get more expensive while the “domestics” built in Mexico won’t.

It’s like some twisted Escher painting. It’s like a jackass drawing another jackass in front of a mirror, forever.

I say keep it a free market. If the US automakers want to sell more cars, then by the love of whatever you hold high, make them that much more appealing. GM has made great strides lately, even Ford in ways, but the lost ground is yet to be recovered.

Shark, it’s not a free market.
There’s all kinds of govenment regulation.
Cali: Hybrids can use the carpool lane

BOT ONLY TOYONDA HYBRIDS!

Are you ****tin me, JackJim? Only Priuses and Insights? A Ford Escape Hybrid (with one driver) can’t use the diamond lane. **** Cal – am so glad I left that ****ty state.

Like other countries don’t offer any protection for their domestic brands…gimme a break! They’ve been doing this for years. Let’s move forward with this bill, it’s time to move America ahead!

Ricardo Head – Bloody brilliant!! What I find amusing is you spell out a few sentences with what is perceived as an uneducated dialect. Others, read and in their own minds link it to blacks and ebonics, then call YOU racist. I love it. Thou doth protest too much!! It’s similar to when the busty woman in the office wears a slightly tighter shirt, arousing the men, and they get bent out of shape crying dress code because of the way it made them feel ‘funny’. Proof that people really do not mature beyond high school. LMAO! A little introspection people.

What I also find funny is some of the same people who cry for more taxing of “the rich” in this country complaining about a tariff increase on rich foreign companies. Gee, is there any reason why we wonder if libs really do hate America?? Don’t misconstrue this as support for this tariff increase, because I don’t. But I can say my reasons for not supporting it are completely different. If they raise the cost for them to manufacture, they raise the cost for us to buy. Quite different from simply feeling it’s ‘wrong’ to tax a foreign company in the interest of our economy. Someone here with apparent above average intelligence did correctly point out that most other countries on this tiny planet do protect their own interests, because they have PRIDE.

Jackjim… Of course I full understand that Honda and Toyota will most likely never leave the American market, they will find a way around that or else find a way to produce cars cheaper to counter-act the tax.
And there’s oil here too, and America has one of the largest possible resources of oil, and future oils like this new source of fuel they’ve been talking about at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico (I apologize as I don’t remember the name of it… I saw something about it on Discovery Channel not to long ago).
What’s the details to your plan Jackjim? Are you saying only foreign hybrids?

California has quite a few weird things to it…

And besides that, if taxes are created, and Honda and Toyota loose market, what’s the point for GM, Ford and Chrysler to keep moving on with this restructuring plan? Then we’ll be complaining…

This would be very difficult to enforce on all Toyotas, Hondas, Nissans, VW’s, etc, sold in the U.S., as they’re sold in SUCH large quantities. Never mind the premium makes..as the only truly good premium makes (save Cadillac…kind of) are foreign made.

Ricardo:

Ford, as you can imagine, was extremely angered at having the law written away from them.

jJay: There would be a ban on importing, not on a foreign owned company building products here. I think it’s assinine that two companies doing the same thing should be taxed at a different rate.

I’m not saying add taxes, I’m just saying, get other companies to build stuff here.

You didn’t even metion the Alaskan oil

Piablo: there’s a difference between being a racist and saying something racist. Hell, I say all kinds of politically incorrect stuff when I’m driving, but I love all stripes of women, from torrance to thailand, riverside to romania and Norwalk to nigeria

Lambo:

My plan would allow you to buy an italian-built Countach (Or a mexican-built VW) You’d just have to handle the importation yourself

jJay: I’ve only sen those stickers on Insights abnd Prii, but i think thhe Honda Civic is eligible as well.

For anyone who doesn’t understand what is happening here with this bill….

The US currently faces a large trade deficit, and has been for too long of a time. What’s wrong with importing more than we export? It has everything to do with where the money is going. Even though Honda, Toyota, BMW, Hyundai, and others manufacture vehicles here in the states, for all intents and purposes those vehicles can still be considered imports. The profits still head back to Japan, Germany and Korea. Our factory workers receive a very small portion of the profits, but it’s a drop in the bucket when compared to the overall profits being sent out of the US. Add up all of the exchanging money, what we pay for imports, and what we receive for exports, and this country is losing money. Our national wealth is diminishing. Think of your household income. If you purchase more than you make, you will eventually go broke. Think of Toyota as a your kid with a minimum wage job while they still live in the house. The money they make does not go to the household income, and they still reap the benefits of living in that household. Now think of having many kids in your house…. It’s time to raise the rent so they start contributing to the household income.

So there are a couple choices here: start levying these new taxes to help offset the major imbalance, or start looking at the laws that are hand stringing the US auto companies. Unions? This ridiculous healthcare system that allows ambulance chasers to sue the scrubs off the doctors, outrageous corporate taxes… I vote for the latter.

Jackjim – I don’t think he made a racist comment, nor is he a racist. Like I said, you inferred it to be racist because that is how you personally see black people speaking. I am not saying YOU are racist for inferring so, I am just getting tired of people being arm chair civil rights leaders by labeling everyone else a racist. Is it possible to criticize a black person today without being called a racist? Bill Cosby can’t even criticize black culture without being called an uncle tom, and he’s black!! The first step in problem solving is identifying the problem. That gets pretty difficult when we can’t even identify the problem without being labeled a racist.

Jackjim… unfortunately decreasing or banning importation won’t work, and neither will handling the trade personally. Honda and Toyota have major facilities and funding in America. They do import models, but they could make up that loss of importation by either purchasing more factories, such as the ones Ford and GM are loosing ground on, or building a new factory.

Building stuff here isn’t the solution either. With all due intent the majority of that money earned by these foreign based companies goes back overseas, as already stated. Even if they have factories here, they will be pulling more money out of the USA then they will deposit. The National Deficit will only increase. For the most part, imports are less common, and are brought over in smaller numbers.

What we need to do is get our market back- It’s part GM, Ford and Chrysler’s fault, being behind the market. Chrysler and GM in many cases have been behind quality, and so has Ford, albeit in less cases. But it’s not all to the fault of GM, Ford and Chrysler- Unions, health care costs and ignorant media is part of the cause too.

Taxes on automotive manufacturers that have home markets outside of the United States would help. Maybe having a limit on the amount of import automobiles produced in the USA would be a good idea- Ford, GM and Chrysler could get some of their market share back, but still have to compete with Honda and Toyota. A stringent limit isn’t what I’m speaking of, but a limit large enough to give automotive manufacturers founded and based in the USA some market back, and still have to compete. Like I said, if there’s no reason to compete, why should Ford, GM and Chrysler continue with this restructuring plan?

If we’re on the same page, HOV lanes that is Jackjim, I’ve seen Ford Escape Hybrids and Saturn Aura hybrids on HOV lanes too, with one or few passengers.

Piablo:

“This ridiculous healthcare system that allows ambulance chasers to sue the scrubs off the doctors”

The old “frivolous lawsuit” claim. ither the problem is dumb judges who don’t laughthe few frivoulos lawsuits that actually exist out of court immediately, or doctors who keep screwing up.

No legitimate lawyer’s going to take a case if there’s not a valid claim. “Frivolous lawsuits,” are invented by corrupt politicians at the behest of their owners, the giant, faceless insurance companies.

I’m going to let you in on a little secret — there are black folks who don’t know what the hell their doing, and if you call one of these people incompetent, you’re right.

Cosby is just keeping it real. I graduated from college, and nobody gave a **** — my family of course, but let one of the local thugs get out of the penitentiary, and it’s like V-J day, or astronauts coming back from the moon.

There is a lot of racism going around, but let’s not worry about the discrepancy in sentencing for crack and powder dealers. Let’s worry about raising teacher salaries and getting the thugs out of our schools.
Sink or swim.

jjay: Why blame the UAW? Unions are necessary. The only recent I have a geed wage/benefit, is the company’s fear that we’ll unionize.
UAW needs to make concessions, but the company should have gone in a different direction years ago, by giving the UAW stock. That way, the union and company’s health are interdependent

If you’ve seen an escape hybrid in a Cali carpool lane, it was breaking the law. Don’t know much about the aura hybrid, but as of November ‘06, only Prii, Civics and Insights are allowed.

I’m opposed to letting single-driver hybrids in. Or hybrid tax rebates. Fuel efficiency is its own reward

I hate it when I make a grammatical error and notice it after it’s posted.

Jackjim…
Talking about Cosby…Have you read the pound cake speech? Your last post seems reminiscent of it, talking about crack dealers and local problems. Just curious.

The UAW is necessary to workers, but it can create problems. When GM’s headcount decreases, they scream bad management. And they create a problem with workers not working hard, since they’re protected by the UAW. I’m not saying work them sweat and blood, but a lazy worker protected by the UAW is obviously bad. When they clear out the factory of employees, and with disagreements in health care which is an issue even I don’t even fully understand, then the UAW intervenes. There have been many problems caused by the UAW, noticeably since 1996 when Ford created it’s agreement with the UAW.

Not in a California carpool lane- I’m talking about the East Coast. I’ve seen American hybrids on East Coast carpool lanes, legal or not!

More or less the rebates are just there for more people to buy the cars- that’s part of the reason why they sell so fast. And then everybody argues that the fuel economy takes 3-5 years to get back what you paid for. Most people keep their vehicles for 6-8 years, so that’s nullified. You do save money with a hybrid, but just like dealers going below MSRP a rebate is partly to attract customers and get them off the lot fast.

Car pool lanes, with hybrid drivers and one passenger- is a bit stupid. Just another reason to get them off the lot.

California has some odd laws that I disagree with- don’t worry about spelling, most people have the grammar of a six year old anyways!

jackjimturkey, i can’t believe you wrote “The only recent I have a geed wage/benefit, is the company’s fear that we’ll unionize.”

If you believe that you deserve more compensation, but your employer doesn’t reward hard work, then you should seek out a company that does. I’ve done it. I believe that is the best way to deal with crooked or greedy companies; not by strong-arming the money mongers into sharing a greater portion of their spoils with you.

If enough people avoided working for stingy employers, I would assume they would either have to increase compensation packages or eventually risk being forced out of business for various reasons. But, unfortunately with our illegal immigration problem, cheap-er labor is only an unsecured border away.

Wait a minute, why the **** should we raise teachers’ salaries? For doing what, telling a bunch of kids to “settle down” every 10 minutes, teach decimals and fractions on a board, and **** right off for 3 months every summer?

**** that, they don’t deserve a penny more than the 30k they make. That’s more than enough.

^^ I think he was making more of a point, Deanster. In other words, I’d rather support teachers than drug dealers.
And aside from that, most teachers make a good more than 30k.
GMCsyclone#478, I know what your saying, and in areas with many different professions that’s easy to say. I know from experience that moving on to another business isn’t always the solution, and isn’t easy. Unionizing is a terrible, nerve racking way of raising pay, but it works.
My points about the unions were they can be over active sometimes, like with GM unemploying. And in 1996, when Ford began it’s deals with the UAW, only more problems came for GM, because Ford set the trend.

What I think we should do is:

-Limit the amount of foreign cars made in the United States based on car class. Luxury cars would not face the same limit as normal cars, bought by median income people.
-Put a minor tax on imported cars. If the amount of cars limited to be produced in America from foreign based companies, there wouldn’t be a need for a stringent tax- the importation costs would for the most part make up for that.
-Ban cars with low crash test ratings, from low cost markets. China’s one of these markets. For the time being, they need to get on top of their game, considering safety, materials, and style, but if they were to import an extremely cheap car to the United States that barely passed safety stringents then it would most likely take alot of market from low income, to medium income individuals. This wouldn’t effect cars made in higher cost markets.

syclone:

If we really wanted to end illegal immigration it could be done:
3 words
confiscation and auction

As far as not working for greedy, crooked companies, I think you’re right. If the best workers left those dogs, stuff would change

deantj: anybody who would be a good teacher would make more money doing something else. $30K would be OK in South Dakota, but in SOuthern California?
I hate having my kids in public school here, because their taking nthe same lessons they took in nebraska last year. Oh, Well.

Furthermore, I think the Automakers need to extract concessions from the UAW that allow them to easily get rid of lazy, incompetent workers.

R-head, as usual, you have an intelligent bit to add to the discussion

Jjay: China will have to make cars with better crash ratings, or they’ll never make it here

morr grammar errors

scheisse!

Yeah, that’s true Jackjim. When they get to the United States they may meet minimal requirements or not. I guess the only way to define such a car is a low cost market.

Big picture: US can use this proposed bill as leverage to decrease the extremely high taxes other countries put on American auto imports. Other countries reduce taxes on American imports and we wont increase their import taxes. In the end this part of the bill will be taken out and American automakers can make more profit from their exports. Of course more money for a US corporation means more tax money for the US govt & more donations to the politicians. And the special interests cycle continues.