Oh no, where’d I put that Prius order form!!!

I love V8s, but you don’t need one to have a good time. I have a V6 I’d like to supercharge sooner or later…more power than a Charger R/T.

Inline 6

Word to our young contributors: If you have the wherewithal to buy one of the current North American V8 powered cars either currently in production or soon to be released- do it. Buy the rarest, best optioned example you can find and hide it. Your parent’s garage, your buddy’s garage, rent a garage- whatever, just do it. Don’t make the same mistake so many past-their-best-before-date old f*cks like myself have made and let this pass you by. And for gawd sakes, don’t let a piece of skirt talk you out of it. Remember, never trust anything that bleeds for 5 days and doesn’t die.

I agree w/ JC above..

Though sad, this is inevitable with the increasing competition for available oil resources from China & India (so they can make and sell us cheap ****) as well as the rest of the developing world.

The majority of the remainder of this planet drives smaller and more fuel efficient cars and pay a lot more for gas so what makes the US so special? Well, nothing, except a foreign policy subservient to oil companies..

johnnycanuck is right. This is 1972 all over again. Although the V8 won’t truly die until the internal combustion engine does they will get more and more rare. In 30 years we’ll be looking back at 2008-2011 as the end of the second era of muscle cars and SRT8 versions of the “new” challenger will be selling for over a million inflation adjusted.

Good thing my Excursion has the V-10.

PS-It can get 16 mpg on the highway.

I really don’t understand why Chrysler says HEMI isn’t the way of the future. It has the potential to be more fuel efficient, it’s just not used on smaller engines. Besides that fact, Chrysler engines are in the craps concerning refinement in the first place, I know fairly well. Haven’t driven the Chrysler 300, which sounds like a really great car though.

JohnnyCanuck- Dodge Challenger, Ford Mustang, Chrysler 300C, Chevrolet Camaro, Ford Thunderbird… Those are going to be the only cars that will really be viable to buy with a V-8 and resell later. Not all cars with large engines will be worth alot.

Fairlight Racing- It’s economically possible. In the name of Global Warming, our Congress denies rights to it though. We could also pump Alaska and the Gulf of Mexico for more oil, also.

My problem is this: why can’t they make fuel economy cars look good? Is it so hard to make a 4 cyl engine that “looks” like a man car?

jayjc08: that’s kind of implied. I’m sure as f*ck not recommending anyone blow their wad on a Crown Vic. And what Thunderbird are you referring to?

Well, perhaps now is the time for GM and the other Domestics to invest heavily into new twin-turbo V-6, or better yet, twin-turbo I-6 powerplants.

affliction, I feel your pain. Hybrids are also plagued by this. The Prius has always looked like ****. I guarantee you fuel economy cars will sell like crazy if they’d actually take the time to design one that isn’t all limp-wristed and retarded looking.

im taking johnnycanucks advice and getting me a challenger for sure. just when the domestics were releasing exciting cars again…….oh well i know ill have one.

JohnnyCanuck: and in 10 years those V8’s are going to be inferior in perfomance to the modern V6’s. Why bother if not for the sake of the car being a classic itself?

Cars or truck looks are personal matter. As rule of thumb ugly cars don’t sell; or if you don’t like those that sell good looking cars don’t sell. Personally, I was on both sides of this equation. As far as V8’s go, they anachronism like analog TV, old touch tone telephone on my night table and a turntable in the stereo cabinet. The difference here is that I hardly use my anachronism, yet if you buy V8 car or truck you got to fill it up to go anywhere.
My favorite rental car is Chevy Impala. It has v6, handles great, gets 28-29 on highway 24 combined and much better car then Caprice V8 I had years ago. V8 for recreational shall pass like analog TV and hopefully V8 will be replaced by diesels for truck. Already Dodge Sprint (aka Benz) is available with only V6 and diesel and it is not loosing any ground to GM or Ford vans.

Well written JC!!! If only I had enough money to buy a nice V8 sedan and store it! If I could though, I’d probably go for a Vette, Viper, or Mustang (do they still make a Cobra?)

^ I meant sedan or coupe

Veda: that’s not the point. There are 6 cyl cars right now that can run rings around some of the most coveted muscle cars from the 60’s and 70’s.

They say it doesn’t happen but lightning has struck twice. A future classic is about more than just performance specs. It’s about holding on to a piece of an era that enthusiasts may never see again. Like M Power says ‘this is 1972 all over again’, although I’d put it at about 1968. The difference is we know what’s coming down the pipe. Very few people back then could have predicted that by ‘74 it would be all but over.

You watch. There are a ton of guys of my vintage that are already planning their Challenger/Camaro/Mustang purchase. And even if we never see the numbers the classic musclecars are pulling at Barrett-Jackson it’s still going to be a f*cking hoot to pull one of these babies out of the garage in 20 years in a world full of hydrogen powered Smart cars and lay a big V8 smoky patch down Main street.

In the 60’s car makers offered all their cars with 6 cylinder engines. The V8 was an option.

Why not offer those kinds of cars again ??

Chrysler is doing it.

There are plenty of bad-ass V6s that will give V8 performance.
You only need a V8 to Tow.
DrFill

‘V8s losing ground in America’. Oh, the irony.

JohnnyCanuck: That’s assuming they’re not banned from the road due to excessive emission. Who knows what lawmakers can come up with nowadays. Though I understand your point regarding the V8’s being an investment art piece.

Agree to buying a Challenger, **** – it’s pushed me into mid life crisis …but to just store it and look at it – bull **** – I have to drive it, and drive in hard. That’s what it’s built for. So I get a scratch or a dent, whuppie ****, it’s worth it.

My turbo flat-4 isn’t wimpy. Not a lot of lag, good torque, sounds mean.

“Already Dodge Sprint (aka Benz) is available with only V6 and diesel and it is not loosing any ground to GM or Ford vans”

That’s because cheap corporate America buys them as work vans. However the drivers of these things will take a V8 Ford or Chevy in a heartbeat than the absurdly slow Sprinter.

And what’s with all this “V6 Turbo is as good as a V8″. Yeah and a man with corrective surgery and hormone treatment is just as good as a woman. Believe it or not its not all about the performance. I love the sound of a V8. I hate whiny or empty sounds. Nissan’ VQ sounds like crap. I hate the sound of forced induction, high pitched and unpleasant. Plus there’s the driving character. A Turbo 6 may put up similar numbers, but it won’t feel the same. No turbo 6 is going to produce the off the line torquey feeling of a V8. No Turbo 6 is going to rumble down the street.

If V8s disappear from cars again, I guess I’ll always be driving trucks.

Im following johhnys advice and gonna get me a z06.

What matters isn’t the # of cylinders, but the horsepower and torque an engine provides. If you have two engines with identical output, but one’s a V6 and the other’s a V8, the V6 is a better option because it weights less and takes less volume under the hood. To put it in context, at the beginning of the 20th century V12 and V16 were not uncommon. As technology improved, these engines became less competitive against the smaller V8’s!

Tha fate of the V-8 is NOT up in the air – that’s one of the dumbest comments I’ve heard in a long time.

The V-8 will not become extinct – it will just be sold in fewer numbers and will be installed in fewer applications. Large pickups, SUV’s, performance luxury cars and sports cars will always have V-8s, as long as there are fossil fuels to burn in an internal combustion engine.

The media is kidding themselves if they think forced induction smaller displacement 4-cylinders and 6-cylinders are the answer to better fuel economy versus a V-8. Just look at the fuel economy numbers of the Evo, STi, and RX-8 – they’re all much worse than the fuel economy of the 6.2L V-8 in the Corvette while making less horsepower. Another example is the Acura TSX – its naturally aspirated 4-cylinder gets far worse fuel economy than most V-6 powered sedans.

“My turbo flat-4 isn’t wimpy. Not a lot of lag, good torque, sounds mean.

Comment by Fletch, posted on February15 at 5:50 am ”

There’s no such thing as a mean sounding 4 cylinder. A V-8 will always sound meaner than the meanest 4 banger. No contest.

Not a lot of lag? How about NO lag with a V-8.

@global_lightening,
Compare GM’s 3.6L DOHC V6 and the small block Chevy V8. The small block is pretty much the same size and probably even lighter. The LS7 looked smaller than the SIDI CTS V6 at the auto show. Pushrod V8s make good power, good economy, and are extremely well packaged.

And power for power = go with the 6 right? That is certainly intuitive, but not always true. Compare the SIDI 3.6L with the LS4. both are 300hp, go with the SIDI V6 right? Not exactly, the LS4 is much torquier and a heavier FWD Buick with the motor and a 4 speed will smoke the CTS in a drag race while returning better fuel economy. That Buick will eat a G36 sedan too. If I wanted power and economy the LS4 makes more sense than the SIDI V6.

All in all GM’s V8s are very efficient and compete with V6 motors on economy. I imagine the SIDI 4.9L V8 with AFM will be superior to the 3.6L V6 in economy. Ford, BMW, Lexus, Merc, etc V8s all suck gas down with reckless abandon, but that doesn’t mean GM’s V8s have to also.

@Z06ified,
Thank you for putting it straight. You just can’t replace the V8 that easily. I’ve driven what’s pretty much the ultimate turbo car. I was fortunate enough to get to drive a 96 Supra Turbo (college = rich friends, and me as somebody who doesn’t drink always gets to DD, and because I didn’t have a car of my own I’d drive other’s cars and this car was one of them). Supra felt SLOW off the line before the boost kicked in. Then it was crazy fast, but I still would prefer the feel of a V8. There was nothing smooth about Supra’s power delivery.

Nothing sounds meaner than an Olds 455 with a good exhaust. If you’ve ever heard a 1970 Cutlass 442 with that motor fired up, you’ve just heard automotive nirvana.

How do you like your Z06 btw? I’ve been considering buying a C5 Z06 as I really do love the LS6 engine.

Better this better that, you are all letting your personal pasts rule your myopic minds. If you grew up into muscle cars you cant imagine a car being cool w/o V8, thats that. If you grew up in the 90s in love w/the Fast and furious you cant imagine a cool car that is not Turbo charged. Each group likes their sound, their look and their style. Mainly because they associate it with their youthful or “best” years. One group can’t even imagine what the other group sees in its taste. These 2 groups could not be more opposed if they were the blood and the crips.

So does this mean all the cop cars will lose their V8’s and have to settle for 4bangers or V6’s?? – So when the time comes I can swap in a monster V8 and out run them.

@Swerve,

While I agree with you that’s not entirely true. I’m a young person (just graduated college a few years ago) of the fast and furious generation and I love muscle and hate turbo. I grew up riding in big GM V8 Station Wagons. I drive a big GM V8 Wagon and a Chevy truck. I want to get a used C5 Z06, Charger SRT8 or a Challenger R/T as a “fun car” to drive around. I have no interest in any AWD or FWD cars, no interest in little cars (Vette excluded), no interest in anything that ain’t an American pushrod V8 driving the rear wheels.

Its more of a personality thing than anything else. A V8 muscle car is a cruiser, its laid-back and its power delivery is raw and beastly. A turbo car makes for a terrible cruiser, delivers power in a gradual explosive fashion and features advanced technology. An appropriate analogy is that a turbo car is like picking the lock to get in to a house to steal stuff, while a muscle car is like smashing the window and door open with a sledge hammer. Same result, different method. The muscle car is violent, using brute force to accomplish its goal. The turbo car is sleek, using high tech innards and savvy to accomplish its goal.

The feeling of raw power appeals to me, but others like the techy turbos. But at the end of the day its what you like.

@jumpoffit,
Cops haven’t had a fast car since the 90s Caprice. The Crown Vics may be V8 but they’re slow (though amazingly receptive to boost for big power). An average pickup truck or SUV can outrun one. A lot of cops are riding in V6 3.5L Impalas these days anyways. The few cops with HEMI Chargers you gotta worry about though.

Besides you can’t outrun their helicopters

frylock350: I come from the other side where I prefer the most silent but truly quick cars so your point of needing rumbling sound to complement your driving experience sounds like those who still cling to manual trans as opposed to the faster DSG’s. It’s all a matter of taste and unless we start talking real performance numbers, everything else can be argued until eternity.

“Besides you can’t outrun their helicopters ”

Except of the new KITT of course. He he…

Fry: Sounds like you and I agree on issue. Myself, I grew up in middle of two groups so I like both for their distinct personalites. Base my prefernce on purpose of vehicle its in. Own 4 cars , 1 V8 (in 4×4 Titan truck), 1 4cyl (Mazda 3), 1 turbo four (WRX), one straight 6 (’95 M3). Got it all covered, my dad has and will never own a car w/o V8

wanna V8?, watch F1

Kill me now. I don’t want to live in a world without V8s.

At the end of the day you can thank the environmentalist wackos.

The sound of the engine is developed by muffler. Either 4 cylinder or 12 cylinder sound awful without muffler. It is not a convincing argument that 8 cylinder sound better then 4 or 6. Engine is to propel a car or haul truck and its load. If 4 or 6 cylinder can do the job with less fuel consumed then there is no need for 8. For aural pleasures there is MP3 player or iPod.
Veda on the topic of enjoyment of manual transmission. DSG is faster shifting, yet it is not available in large number of cars (actually only VW peddles them and I refuse to be a guinea pig). Manual requires skill to drive. You are probably right it is a dying skill like ability to paint or draw in the age of photography. But if you can paint, would you stop because there is cheap camera available?

autonut: A dying skill in US, not to the rest of the world. In some countries a used car with a manual resales better than the same car with an auto.

Veda, I see a lot of automatics in London. Every time I visit there are more of them. Like herpes they spreading through the old continent. 8 years ago I haven’t seen single automatic in Paris, it dos not mean there were absolutely no automatics in Paris, I haven’t seen them. Last year I saw them even in Madrid – a relatively poor capital. Albeit in Madrid it automatic Lexus – you can’t get one with manual. The guy driving it was shifting anyway. Auto’s are spreading, I don’t disagree with that, but I love the skill and the feeling.

While Manuals are often touted for having better fuel economy, any automatic can achieve the same numbers with more intelligent and flexible programming. That issue has been provoen more than a few times, but the majority of automakers still use autos with fewer gears and shorter shifting programs. Adding a manual shift mode to allow the driver to make better use of power under harder use, performance for example, will help.

It is try that more and more people in the US and around the world are not as enamored with manual shift, and they don’t need to be. All this attention is given to the engine but you could see very obvious improvements in F/econ and performance by paying some attention to the tranny.

Not just making it smoother, but making the auto smarter and more flexible.

Their is a lot of short-sighted panicking going around DETROIT with these new standards. It is foolish for these companies to seek to hedge back on everything because suddenly they are being required to go further on a gallon of gas.

There have been great advancements made to maintain power while using less fuel. These are important. It is not enough, however, the engines are only the start. But that is what this article focuses on and, it seems, the readers.

While I am a advocate for Hybrids, hydrogen, and fuel-cells, I also know that this technology is still only just becoming marketable and/or even ready to leave the lab.

For now I recommend a complete re-evaluation of the automobile. We know even the best internal combustion engine is at best 40% efficient. The transmission must make better use of the power put in. I wouldn’t be put off by a 12, 14, or 16-speed Tranny using a 6, 7, or 8, speed tranny and using a kind of “High-Low” gear to double your available ratios and extend the range of the trans mission, not unlike a 12-speed bicycle. This, only if there is a real improvement in F/econ. Not the usual 1-2 miles per gallon that usually comes of it.

More intelligent Trannies, and more efficient engines – not necessarily having fewer cylinders but using them more intelligently, lighter more intelligently built cars will save the V8 and maybe resurrect the V12 is American automobiles (FORD and GM used to make them back in the 1920s to 1930s). The core mechanics haven’t changed in over a century, only the technology and that just needs to be implemented more expediently and cost effectively. Stop saving the best stuff for the hyper-priced luxury and sports exotics.

A smartly built Mustang (as an example) with a V12 (Not some over-priced F1 derived block made of unobtainium) with the latest technology and the smartest engine and transmission management system for the money, that gets over 40 mpg, can reach 180mph could easily be possible by 2020. But DETROIT has to stop panicking and start really putting their engineers to work.

As long as the price is right and the vehicle does what we want and need it to do, within a certain realm of reality, we will buy it.

I just bought a V8 powered car. A 2001 BMW 540i, 6 speed manual. Oh well, I”ll have to enjoy this V8 power while I can.

Shocking isn’t it? What did they expect, for them to go up? Wow gas is nearly triple what it used to be, I’m gonna go buy a hemi charger. Anyhow, I’d be able to deal with V8’s being for niche vehicles and trucks. There’s enought tech out there to get performance from smaller engines.

The issue has more to do with not making the best use of the technology available. We could have V12 muscle Cars today if DETROIT had invested in better tech sooner. Now they are panicking because they tried to ignore the warning signs.

LmborginiZ, I just checked my hunch on cars.com and I was right. V8 in your 540 generates 282 HP and 324 lbs of torque. 2007 turbo 6 generates 300 HP and 300 lbs of torque. On highway V8 will go 23 miles per gallon I6 will do 26. I drove 335 coupe and after 250 miles measured over 30 mpg. Granted that 3L turbo was not available in 2001 but with about the same technical characteristics 6 cylinder does save fuel.

The sound of the engine is developed by muffler. Either 4 cylinder or 12 cylinder sound awful without muffler. It is not a convincing argument that 8 cylinder sound better then 4 or 6. Engine is to propel a car or haul truck and its load. If 4 or 6 cylinder can do the job with less fuel consumed then there is no need for 8. For aural pleasures there is MP3 player or iPod.
Comment by autonut

Thanks for dictating to me what constitutes aural pleasures. Its not exhaust that determines sound. Exhaust can tune and amplify sound but not significantly alter it. To use your music analogy its like having Britney Spears sing Satisfaction and say “same thing” as the Rolling Stones. Cubic inches and intake produces alot of the sound character you hear. A pushrod sounds different than a DOHC. Big cubes produce that deep rumble, and you can’t replace that. Plus there’s the sounds V8 fans don’t like. Turbo whine for example, or the high pitched squeal a DOHC V6 makes. Rip the muffler off a DOHC V6 and its the same whiny empty sound, just a whole lot louder. Rip the muffler off a big V8 and its the same rumble, only louder.

LmborginiZ, I just checked my hunch on cars.com and I was right. V8 in your 540 generates 282 HP and 324 lbs of torque. 2007 turbo 6 generates 300 HP and 300 lbs of torque. On highway V8 will go 23 miles per gallon I6 will do 26. I drove 335 coupe and after 250 miles measured over 30 mpg. Granted that 3L turbo was not available in 2001 but with about the same technical characteristics 6 cylinder does save fuel.
Comment by autonut

Because the 5-series and 3-series are the same size…. 2008 G8 is competitive with that Turbo I6’s mileage and it doesn’t demand premium. The G8 is also a significantly heavier car. Corvette’s 425hp V8 exceeds the mileage of the I6 turbo 3-series. Then there’s the fact that off the line the I6 produced horrible power. I’ve driven a Supra, a faster car than the M3 and even it felt weak until the boost kicked in. Turbo engines do not replace the driving character of a V8. They don’t replace the sound, the immediate surge of power, none of it. If you don’t get that that’s fine, but those of us who do would like to keep our choice.

Frylock,

“Amen, Brudder!”

What I don’t understand is with all of the wherewithall on hybrids, why the companies with V8’s aren’t looking to bolster the economies on these motors by making them fuel conscious out of the gate, at least optionally? Let’s be honest… GM has shown huge improvements in mileage #’s with their hybrid V8-powered SUV’s and pickups. To me, a hybrid powered Camaro would change the entire image of a hybrid and likely boost the Camaro’s potential fuel economy in cruise mode significantly, without turbo-charging and in any way altering that V8 burble so many love. That isn’t to say that there’d not be room for a fire-breathing performance model sold in low volumes that’s all about weight savings vs. providing a mainstream performance/efficiency model, but for those that want that burly guttural sound of a V8 but want their efficiency… I don’t see a problem with offering a V8 hybrid powertrain in these cars, and perhaps with cylinder deactivation as well, maybe with a “defeat” switch of some sort when the car is in performance mode. The greenies may not like that defeat switch but let’s face it, regardless of what they want or believe in… people are going to buy the car closest to what they want and drive it EXACTLY how they want to drive it. If someone wants to buy a Prius and flog the snot out of it, turbocharge it, drop it, gut the interior, and go Ricer with it… that’s their prerogative. No environmentalist is going to stop them from decking it out the way they want to.

It’s already been proven that the biggest gains in terms of efficiency and economy are on the larger motors (was noted a number of times by GM’s execs, which is why just about every big truck has hybrid options now), because they generally are the one’s with the most to gain. When you’ve got a V8 that’s towing around a lumbering mass everywhere that’s a constant burden on the loud pedal, your mileage is going to suffer more than a lightweight economy car that already has less weight to lug around and is already built to a higher efficiency level.

Compared to some of the older 80’s Civic’s, the Prius’ mileage doesn’t really resonate. Even some of the later normally aspirated, non-Hybrid Honda’s put up super low emissions comparable to what the Prius does. I mean, the Prius’ EPA #’s always sounded great until you compared them to some old 80’s and early 90’s Civic’s and Geo Metro’s and saw that there were other cars putting out 60 mpg without all of the gimmickry. Yet finding an SUV with a V8 that put out mid-20’s to 30 mpg with all of that mass, is more than a bit impressive IMHO. I’m not an SUV guy, but I definitely believe GM worked quite a bit of magic with their big SUV’s this go-round, and the EPA #’s are nothing short of miraculous IMHO compared to what they’d had on the market before.

When I keep hearing GM floundering back/forth on what to do with their big cars, I just shake my head. Toyota is already gunning to put a hybrid drivetrain option in everything they do. GM has already done this with the trucks. To me, if GM wasn’t already planning a hybrid drivetrain for Zeta… they missed the boat in the planning stages. I think the recent Denali concept highlights that there are Hybrid plans for Zeta, so why GM doesn’t just bite the bullet and commit is beyond me. E-Flex and the truck platforms shouldn’t be the only thing with a hybrid drivetrain option, every vehicle in every line should have one. The real key is engineering it so it provides gains and increases the cars overall efficiency, without just being an extra bit of weight that while giving a return, also shifts the dynamics towards heavy burdens (weight). Weight, in terms of CAFE #’s, is ultimately the enemy.

Now mind you… That isn’t to say that a performance-minded driver won’t flog the snot out of it a good percentage of the time and circumvent the efficiency gains… but driven practically, the car should be able to meet the new CAFE standards… not every car will be driven practically and efficiently, but that goes for those driving 4-cylinder cars like mine. Performance cars will always be there, will always be a major force, and whether the greenies like it or not… not everyone is going to want to mope around at pedestrian speeds watching a digital readout in the center stack of their car noting the best ways to get the greatest efficiency (ala Prius). I do think, however, that a Camaro, Mustang, Vette, Challenger, and any other performance car buyer wouldn’t be remotely against a car that when driven at more modest speeds on a trip, couldn’t get them great mileage so they save a little cash to burn when they get to their destination and want to do a little spirited driving.

I appreciate all cars (I tend to lean towards smaller and sportier, not necessarily a muscle car… but something that has a bit of oomph)… I just feel that the preaching of the death of the V8, while perhaps inevitable, should only be seen inevitable as much as the death of the internal combusion engine is. I do expect the higher displacement V8’s to go first, but that isn’t to say that I don’t believe there’s not a way that the gap between the last production V8 and the last production I4 can’t be within the same or similar decade. Whatever automaker spends the energy to figure out how to keep these on the market ’til the very end, is the one that’ll get the last laugh. Well, assuming they’re prepared for the next big thing (and for that, a performance EV or Fuel Cell vehicle = the next move).

More proof that this country is losing its toughness. First, wide-scale dodgeball bans, now this.

gay! they shood just try to make the V8’s more fuel efficient