Wow. It doesn’t look like there’s any debate…

That is pretty impressive. However, I would really like to see it tested in more conditions to make it a little more comprehensive and therefore more legit/definative. Something like snow and ice, gravel, tarmac etc. Although I guess one of the two manufacturers already does that pretty regularly on in the WRC.

I also wouldn’t mind seeing the winner against some of the AWD luxo SUVs too. Now that would be interesting

Not sure how old this video is, but my decision to purchase a 2005 forester 2.5xt is slightly reinforced after watching that. I’ve had nothing but good times offroad in it and have never gotten anywhere near stuck.

I don’t know a damn thing about the mechanics of either system so maybe someone can clear up some of the oddities in this video. Why didn’t the back wheels of the xc70 turn? They did slightly in the first test but not at all in the second. The Subaru’s victory seems more than clear but can it be so obvious. Is Volvo’s system absolute crap? Seems suspicious to me but again I don’t know anything about the systems and have never driven either car.

Yeah, wow.

That looked pretty lopsided, but I’m in the same boat as Jon’O. Can someone help clear this up?

Do they have equal tires? Otherwise, they’re just testing tires.

What he said.

It appears like the Volvo AWD system is not even functioning… I find it hard to believe that if this video is actually representative of a Volvo XC’s performance that there wouldn’t have been lots of complaints about it. (I’ve heard of none - but I don’t own a Volvo XC). This video is suspect. I wonder if the guys doing this test are really Subaru dealers trying to spread FUD? If so, congratulations LL for giving them a helping hand:-)

Doesn’t Subie have symmetrical AWD? That would explain why it didn’t slip. Now it is really odd that Volvo’s AWD system didn’t kick in the RWD when it detected wheel spin up front.

……Ya, dey put slicks on the Volo and pumped’m up to 60pounds! Cheaters…

Besides: there’s no hills in front of Country Day School or Whole Foods market anyway!

j i m

#6…. they are not testing tires if the Volvo’s AWD system FAILS to even transfer torque to the rear. Clearly a design flaw if the Volvo actually has AWD. It looks a behaves like it only has FWD.

In the video the guy says that the cars have got exactly the same tires, and that both are automatic. I have read about problems with the volvos 4WD before, where the volvo could’nt pull a boat up a hill on sand, and just started spinning. It looks like the TC just cuts the power on the video, in stead of allowing a little bit of wheel spin on all wheels at the same time. Also this is an older video, and volvo uses another type of clutch after the latest facelift, so it probably won’t occur with a new car.

let me clear things up a bit..
the language the guy is speaking is swedish and
the test seems to be sort of a re-test after volvo complained about the results of an earlier test.

the guy says they used exactly the same kind of tires on both cars. and the reason the volvos back wheels didnt spinn is that it’s AWD system gives 75% of the power to the front wheels and the remaining 25% to the back while the subaru gives 50% to each.

Not enough info to tell for sure since you don’t know what kind of tires each car has or how worn they are. You also don’t know if the subbie had 18 lbs of air and the volvo had 55 lbs. There could be some weights in the back of the subbie to help the rear tires get traction as well.

Additionaly that is nto the correct way to ascend a hill either. You should start out on flat ground get a little bit of momentum going and then gradualy reduce throttle pressure as you climb to keep from losing traction.

I can’t see volvos system being that bad as they have borrowed some 4wd tech from Land Rover as well.

Another amusing factor to point out is the engine noise, listen to how much throttle the volvo is getting immediately from the jump compared to the virtually silent application on the subie.

No all wheel drive/four wheel drive system in the world can overcome an idiot behind the wheel mashing the pedal down.

This was the most bogus test of vehicle dynamics I’ve ever seen, although I can vouch from real world experience that Subaru’s AWD platform is superior to the setup on the XC70, but it’s certainly not night and day like this video shows. Short of ice you’ll never notice the difference if all other material on the two vehicles are the same.

I have never seen any 4 wheel Drive system work that bad. And I would have to say that it was almost like he had the parking prake on. I have gone up bigger hills in mud in a two wheel drive something is wrong with that video. And in a real wheal drive LTD up a hill better than what he showed in the volvo.??

I agree with 18. It sounds like he gave the volvo too much throttle from the beginning and broke traction on the tires. As soon as mud starts filling in those tires then they become useless.

it’s been established they used the same tires.

The difference is that Volvo’s AWD wasn’t meant for offroading. It doesn’t transfer enough torque to the other wheels. That’s why only the front kept spinning.

The Volvo AWD system is crap. Why is this so hard for some of you to accept? Subaru has spent untold millions in WRC developing their system, is it really surprising that it is superior? The blind idiots following Volvo need to turn off their Mac and refresh their lattes.

LOL my cousin owns a volvo, i will show this to him for sure and laugh in his face while he is watching it. volvo for life! haha..

People are saying it does not transfer “enough torque” to rear wheels - but in fact from the video it looks like it isn’t transferring ANY! The rear wheels would have spun at least a little if any power was delivered to the rear wheels - right?

unless the Volvo has a LSD in the back the right rear wheel may have been spinning- allwheel drive is quite often one front and one back. Audi had it right with the diff. locks.

isn’t a vulva part of a woman’s genitalia

Subaru may have a better awd system than Volvo but that is also all Subaru has going for it. Who would by a front wheel drive Legacy if it were offered? Volvo is worth considering in fwd form because they are decent cars. As awd is becoming an option with most brands Subaru is going to have to evolve or it will go the way of Isuzu.

hmmm… race bred versus… safety bred. who could win that?
looks like volvo has created the worst AWD system ever. one that looks to be FWD.
then again who the hell goes offroad in a volvo anyways?

i am sure everybody knows this but the volvo is running on an haldex awd system. which has been proven to be sh*te.

to simplify, it is a fwd until slippage is detected. there was definately slippage, so why the rears didn’t kick in, i have no idea.

go with either a torsen (audi) or symmetrical (subie) awd system. that said, i also read the new haldex systems (R32 / MS6) are quite decent. so.. I DON”T KNOW!!!!!

I have driven and rode in a few Volvo’s. They’re nice cars, pretty safe too. That being said, Jon O. knows nothing about Subaru’s so take his words lightly. Mentioning Isuzu in the same breath as Subaru completely distinguishes his credibility. As a Subaru owner I know they are awesome cars that have been evolving since the 70’s. They may not sell as many as Honda or Toyota, (also great cars) but they have a growing and loyal following (see NASIOC and LGT.com, among others). Japanese technology, safety (as good as, and in some cases, better than Volvo) incredible power, and great AWD. For the performance-minded and grocery-getter-minded, all in one package.

I think Subarus and Volvos are for very different purposes. I own a Subaru (2.5RS Impreza), and a relative of mine owns 2 Volvos (850 Turbo & S60R). I can say that the Volvos are incredible. Well, the 850 has always been a great car, then Volvo kind of died a bit, then the S60R is just equally incredible. However even my cousin admits that the AWD drive isn’t really AWD, it’s FWD and sends only minute power to the rear. Plus the whole system was designed for driving on the road, not on mud.

Whereas Subaru’s AWD system was designed for offroad use from the get-go. It is not a FWD w/ clever TC and other gadgets that sort of makes it AWD. Like-wise Audi’s Quattro is an AWD system from the start. BMW’s…. well… that’s just a pathetic attempt to build an SUV to make lots of money.

But despite the lack of AWD ability, it doesn’t make Volvo a worse car, doesn’t make Subaru a superior car. If we’re to race in a straight line, for example, on tarmac, the Impreza WRX STI would smoke Volvo S60R from first to third gear, but beyond that Volvo would pull ahead simply because the gear ratio in the Impreza favours the first three gears. Does that mean Imprezas are inferior? I don’t think so. For my purpose it’s fantastic.

So if you are buying a car to slug through mud most of the time, and you picked Volvo, that’s just a bad choice, not a “bad car”. Just like if you intend to trek through the jungle and picked a Subaru Legacy Outback, you’ll equally suffer (that would be Range Rover territory).

The video is flawed. First of all, the language barrier prevents us from interpreting the test correctly. There is’nt enough information to deduct which system is more effective. In addition, the Volvo is not a 2006 XC70, but rather an earlier(circa 2001) model without the new instant traction system. Lets see a test with NEW systems on NEW cars, and lets not see how an older Subaru will do compared to an XC70 in a rollover, side, or frontal impact real-world crash. There is more information needed to fully deduce which system is most effective. This test simply makes it seem like Volvo has a poor system, which is hardly the case. This video is a shamefully unfair claim that should be taken with a grain of salt. This is like making a video in another language and putting a BMW 3 series against a Camry to compare handling and saying that the Camry is ponderous and unsafe by watching the footage and not interpreting the facts of the test. Further research and tests in our language need to be done fo reach a true, solid verdict. For now, I’d say this is just plain ridiculous.

This test is obviously sponsored by Subaru Sverige. I own an XC7O and use it occationally for like purposes, of which none of which has happened as that being displayed. IT DOES, appear that the parking brake is being used. Not surprising given Subaru’s internal rivalry with Volvo, safety, wagons; all leading to jealousy or envied brand strengths and public perception. This test is clearly skewed and those conducting said test are obviously needing external funds to add to their government allowance. Next trial: Mercedes G-Class vs. Ford Maverick/Escape. Edge of seat here…….

haha i agree 33, just another example of flawed tests to fool the public. next week we’ll see videos of Smart against a Bugatti in the quarter mile

ps. i agree with 32.

both are great cars… for different purpose…

i currently own a subie.. but grew up with a 240..

he may have been revving the volvo, and it may have different tires but the point is that the rear tires ’should’ have been spinning at least reagrdless.
ill take the subi awd thx.
and i looove volvos…

Volvo have time to build their AWD system - Scoobies had it locked for years - no rally volvos really eh?

All in good time

Audi’s Quattro would have been interesting to see also.

Regarding the parking break comment, if the handbrake is clicked on even slightly it will turn off the AWD on many volvos.

thats right 38, the system will disengage so as not to stress the components, which would explain why 1 set of wheels were working. The whole test is unacceptable.

The test appears to be real world, and rather benigne. I would expect most FWD vehicles to pull that muddy track without too much difficulty. I wouldnt even put my Z71 Silverado in 4hi for it.
25% of power to the ‘optional’ wheels is marginal for any kind of significant differentce on nearly any kind of road surface.
I believe the Suby is a superior car in nearly every way compared to the Volvo except maybe in a crash and in the weight of the window sticket.

#41
Subaru beats volvo in safety for every car they compete with. Volvo is riding on its safety reputation, Subaru is building one.

this is silly..

yes, the car is circa 2001. in fact, both cars are 2001. the video is done in 2001. so it is not like either car is recent. this has been discussed elsewhere during 2001. we are like 5+ years late!!!!

why is this being ‘re-introduce’?

anyways.. did more homework.. it wasn’t until 03 that volvo used the haldex system. so the volvo in question, was using something else..

Something is very fishy here. I am not doubting that Subaru has a superior off-road AWD setup. Haldex manufactures Volvo’s AWD system (as well as Audi’s Quattro System) and they are know to design excellent AWD systems. To boot, I have driven XC70’s off-road and they have no problems with muddy hills like the one in the video. Also, the limitation on rear wheel torque is not 25%. Prior to 2003, the vehicle started with 5% rear wheel torque and within one wheelspin could send up to 75% of available torque to the rear. Traction control was integrated into the system and could transfer torque left to right from there. For 2004 and 2005 Volvo went to a faster reacting system that could transfer power within 1/7th of a turn. 2006 Volvo went even further in that 59lb feet of torque was precharged to the rear axle giving ‘instant traction.’ There was also no limitiation on the amount of torque that could be sent to the rear wheels for 2006. This video is pretty clearly a hoax or a malfunctioning car. Here are some pics of an XC70 on 18″ wheels with SUMMER TIRES (terrible combo) tearing up an offroad track: http://forums.swedespeed.com/zerothread?id=60665.

subaru is clearly the better off-road vehicle. if the tires are the same there is no question. volvo has a good reputation for safety and very high prices. subaru is building a good reputation for safety and moderate prices. ask dennis coates if you don’t believe me. he is a wealth of information. best to kevin

If its true that this video is from 2001 then the results of the Volvo is correct. It had a visco back then and it was a really crapy system. The Haldex system would not allow so much slipage even though it needs a certain slippage between front and rear. Volvo aslo has a realy crapy slip-prevention system called TRAX which has improved but is not as good as with some of it rivals.

Most of you are right in the saying that Volvos AWD system sucks but that was only from 2005 and under because Volvo was aware of theyre crapy AWD and fixed it now they have an AWD system called instant traction wich does not let what you saw in this video happen Volvo may have errors like any other car brand but they always fix them making Volvo one of the safest car brands in the world

My buick Grand National could have made it up that hill, something ain’t right

to all you guys that think the video is flawed you’re an idiot. they used the same tires and the volvo dose not use all time awd nor is it a 50/50 split like the subie. the subarus awd system way out does the volvos. end of story. i cant belive how stupid some of these comments are. do a little research befor you just post anyhting.

In response to 27 (i know i’m a little late), but subaru has everything going for it as well as the AWD, if all subaru had was AWD, the forester XT wouldn’t have been rated best small SUV by car and driver 3 years in a row. Subaru’s in general wouldn’t be rated some of the safest cars over all in the automobile industry, and the 05 Legacy wouldn’t have won car of the year in japan a year or so ago. I Have a 05′ Forester XT, and i gaurentee it’s safer, more capable, and way faster then the volvo’s, and probly cheaper too

extra little note: I like volvo’s they’re darn nice cars, but i feel subaru gives you more bang for your buck i mean the volvo XC 70 starts at 36,000… you could probly pick up a new Outback XT for 26,000 out the door if you bargain hard enough

Whooo Subarus!!! but then again vovlos arent bad either, i have an 06′ WRX and it kicks but rain or shine and id choose an subaru over an volvo anyday (given that their in the same price range)

This test is for a 2002 V70 XC with a viscous coupler - pre-Haldex (in 2003 the V70 XC changed to the XC70 and changed to the Haldex system). Haldex AWD is also used on some Audi’s and Volkswagen’s, not to mention the Bugatti Veyron. It can proportion up to 100% torque to either front or rear based on need and it works incredily well.
Regardless, the viscous coupler should have transferred enough power to the rear wheels to make at least one of them spin. Even though this is an old video with out-dated models, something still is not functioning properly with that Volvo.

Wow, something’s got to be wrong!!! - a subie beat a volvo. Lot’s of touchy Volvo ego’s in this thread. Haldex has come a long way but it’s still a fwd system that can act like awd for short periods of time. Try keeping a haldex system working for more than a couple of minutes and I’ll bet it heats up more than a Sedona brush fire.

Interesting video, I couldn’t tell if it it was rigged or not, nor did I understand what was being said. I think all it was meant to show was the AWD strengths between the cars. But based on that, I’m not really surprised with what I saw. I should note to you readers, I once sold Subies in 2003 and I own a ‘97 OB and a ‘99 sedan, so I’m a bit biased. Aside from all that however, my Subaru sales training taught me how Subaru’s AWD system works.

If memory serves me right, torque actually varies on the vehicle model and transmission type in it. I think there are actually 5 different ways the Subaru AWD system works, depending on the model. For example, on all 5 speed models, torque is distributed equally 50-50 between front and rear wheels at all times (with some also having an anti-slip rear differential). The automatic transmissions used in most Outback’s, under normal road conditions, distributes torque 90-10 (here in favor of the front). But then, with the slightest slip or slowing of any wheel from all others, the torque will instantly (and I do mean instantly) change in value up to a 50-50 split. All Outbacks, like that in the movie, have anti-slip in the rear differential, so the back wheel with the most grip gets the most torque applied to it. Be mindfull too, the anti-slip will instantly change from side to side as grip conditions change. Another example, in recent Legacy GT models, the automatic works a bit different from the Outback. The automatic in GT’s normally provide a 45-55 torque split, herein favoring the rear wheels. This is for a more traditonal sporty driving feel. But it also will instantly become 50-50 should any front or rear wheel experience slipage. Here again, the anti-slip diff works the same as the Outback. Based on my experince with all their vehicles, having driven some in 3+ foot deep snow, about the only way to stop a Subie is to get it high centered. Aside from that, if any wheel can get a grip it will be moving rest assured!

If you want to experince something neat, take this simple test. Test drive any manufactures model on the market today sporting AWD or 4WD and do the following. At a complete stop, turn the steering wheel as far left or right as you can, then proceed forward or backward. With rare exception, nearly all will produce a binding sensation throughout the entire drive train. You will feel the car body shudder and shake, especially through the steering wheel and gas pedal. This binding effect is caused by all wheels turning at a different revolving speed. The drive axel’s are all binding or grinding against one another. My experience in turning tightly a late model Volvo wagon made the vehicle really shudder and it fought the maneuver violently. Now try the same test in a Subie! I can assure you that you will NOT feel a thing, with either automatic or manual, it makes no difference! Subaru has their system so well designed that you will not have any indication that all 4 wheels are actually receiving torque (but they are). It’s absolutely amazing! What’s all this mean to you? This means their system will go for years without breaking or wearing something out! No wonder they are loved by their owners for sure footedness, quality and reliability! When you actually learn how Subies work you will wonder why no one else does the same. In my book, they are amazingly well engineered.

Now as for safety, no question Volvo makes a safe vehicle and a good car. They are built like a tank (and drive like one). I once owned one myself for that same reason. But then, all Subaru’s consistantly get the highest national safety standard award rankings possible and have a very strong owner following. But can all this mean Subies really are all that great? Do not take my word for it, do your own survey. Walk up to any Subaru owner and simply ask then how they like their vehicle. I’ve done it hundreds of times. And believe it or not, I always get the same response! I’m willing to bet 9 out of 10 Subie owners will all say the following ‘I LOVE MY SUBARU’. I have yet to find an unhappy owner. So for my buck, to have such sure footedness, realiblity, comfort and quality it means I’m going the Subie route. Thanks for listening!

Found the following that might help to answer #3 and many of the other comments. Take this link, which may help to explain why the Subaru shines and the Volvo goes nowhere!

http://www.4×4abc.com/4WD101/volvo.html

Sorry, but for some reason the above link in #52 doesn’t want to work??????. So try this!

Copy and paste the following in your browser and it should hopefully get you there.

http://www.4×4abc.com/4WD101/volvo.html

What year cross country is that? I have a new one and have taken it through ice, snow, all up in the Cascades and Sierra Nevada’s through primitive rural areas and scary steep hills and windy muddy roads and have never experienced any problems. Perhaps older cross countries may have had some probs, I dunno, but my ‘06 XC70 has been great. I used to have a more rugged 4×4 SUV and it at times complained up in areas where my xc70 just zooms along no prob.

I think “subies” are great cars, too… but i think this video isn’t a fair representation. Go test drive both cars on your own - they are nearly the same but you’ll be more comfortable and feel safer in the volvo. I test drove them both and the Volvo felt safer and more solid so that’s the one I went with. I’m glad I did.

This video is old, 2001. The reason for this test is that the same magazine did a test with several AWD vehicles. One of the tests was to put the vehicles on rollers and the Volvo’s rear wheels did not turn. The editors contacted Volvo, who said that there was a software malfunction on the AWD system. The magazine was given a different XC to test and this video is part of the test. If you google this video there is a full translation of the article. There is likely nothing bogus about this test. There is a reason Volvo switched to the Haldex system.

As I understand it Volvo’s system reverted to FWD above a given speed or RPM range. This may explain why the driver in the video cut the power. Trying to get the Volvo’s old system to kick in.

Hi guys, i drive a V70 XC 2.4T 2002 and YES I know: VISCO SUCKS!

1.
A few years a go (VISCO was not yet stuck) I was forced to call a “tow - truck” to ‘free’ my car from a little wet grass bump (my front tyres sunk half in it) and no way I could free myself. None of all 4×4 tricks could help me.
Really ridiculous!
I sure hope that the HALDEX - versions are far better but I don’t believe they will beat Subaru’s 4×4.

2.
My VISCO is stuck now (the car has 205.000km and is 6 years old) and I was told it would cost me 1500 euro to fix it. I know drive 100% FWD (not a huge difference with a normal Visco and I still love my car but I really miss the “push from behind” (not to be misunderstood ;-).

DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO EASY FIX VISCO wthout high costs?

OR IS IT POSSIBLE TO CHANGE TO HALDEX AND AT WHAT COST?

Yes I suppose it is not worth the cost for a car from 2002 but still, I hope to drive another 100.000km with my car…

Thanks a lot in advance for your comments!

Kind regards,
Hans