yay veedub, they know where the fun is and if they don’t keep R&D departments like this, how will they ever get the gallardo engine inside the new iroc? haha mmmmmmm…. that’d be fast

“A jumbo jet takes off at 250 km/h, whereas a Bugatti remains safely on the ground at 400 km/h.”

Wouldn’t that jumbo jet hit something if it didn’t take off around that speed? The comparison seems silly to me, one is supposed to stay planted on the ground whereas the other is meant to fly. Not to take anything away from the car though, stable at 250mph is awesome!

I just hope this does not stop development of the new Sciroco. VW has been very good for Lambo and Bugatti. I hope that continues and the Veyron really isn’t Bugatti’s last car.

this VW boss is an idiot. Obviously a jet is gonna take off at that speed cause it has wings and is designed to do that. A Veyron isn’t meant to take off, it has tons of downforce so it doesn’t. Stupid comparison.

I still want someone to explain to me what “no more toys” means. WTF was the Carrera GT, if not a toy? The 911 Turbo almost competes with the Gallardo…that makes it a toy as well. Frankly, one of the world’s most venerable sports cars firms can’t complain about toys seeing as their cars are basically that: toys.

Jon.

——–>TIMEOUT JON: you said “The 911 Turbo almost competes with the Gallardo”…….What on earth are you SMOKING?? LOLyou got it backwards, u meant to say “the Gallardo is MILES away from competing with the 911 Turbo”…..lol…..

His “toys” comment was reffering to the fact that the Bugatti and Lambourghini brands are not serious profit makers for the VW group, and the Veyron in particular was the VW chairmans pet project, and couldn’t possibly make a dime. He wasn’t reffering to the cars themselves or their usefullness to the consumer.

Seriously was there any doubt? As for Winterkorn being an idiot I agree if they in fact do not bring the AUDI S3 HERE!!

His airplane comment was valid as an analogy to the stability of the Veyron in comparison to its high speed competition. The McClaren F1 did 241, but from what I read, it was a skitish, white knuckle experience.
As for downforce and high speed, as Porsche about their GT1 problems at LeMans. THAT is what happens at high speed when your Aero isn’t perfect.

An airplane is supposed to fly, the wings are designed to create lift, whereas a car is meant to stay on the ground, flying in a car is a bad thing. lol I just don’t think it was a valid comparison. Now if he said something like the Veyron was capable of being stable at 250 mph vs. a very risky 241 mph in a McLaren F1, I wouldn’t have said a word.

bb_454 – Exactly.

Cool that Bugatti and Lambo are staying with a car company
I’m not sure how having Lamborghini and Bugatti under VW Group hurts Porsche though. Porsche does not directly compete with Lamborghini and can keep it that way by force on the VW board.

Since Bugatti is sticking around for a while with the VW family we’ll hopefully see a W16 Beetle one day! The VW family of brands is one interesting collection of automobiles.

454,
A car body is actually pretty wing shaped. The basics of aerodynamic lift come from the distance over the top of an object being longer than the distance under it. That means the air on top speeds up, and thus the pressure lowers, creating lift. That’s why most cars generate lift as speed increases. His point was that at speeds high enough to make a 100 ton jet get airborne, is car is glued to the ground and stable. Most cars aren’t.

1×4d0g,
“pos” cars? Porsche? How are we supposed to take anything from you seriously now??

Score one for the L-Squad

not sure why that link doesn’t work, here it is again:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/b3cdc6b2-bbd0-11db-afe4-0000779e2340.html

About the airplane comment, I agree that it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense at first. Read norby’s first post under this headline. Porsche’s GT1 problems considered, this might have been a jab at porsche to tell them to mind their own business, VW brands actually learn something from R&D…..

Not that I’m saying that, but they might be.

chill the fukc out bout the veyron-jumbojet comparison

I think the airplane/car anology is pretty good. Norby is totally correct. And it takes far more than just slapping on a few aerodynamic effects to correct the problem. Having driven more than a few street cars in excess of 120mph (not bragging, it was a ’safe’ area and well planned but still very very stupid)I can vouch for their airworthiness. In other words they get real floaty and difficult to steer in a straight line. This was true except for the Porsches which were rock solid at these speeds, from the 944S to the 930 turbo, one hand on the wheel at speeds approaching publicized top speed.
The fact that Bugatti has achieved what is has is more than impressive.

no doubt the bugatti is an amazing car but i think lamborghini is better, not looking from a performance point of view.

Porche is just mad that they have to compete with cars that are so much better looking (Lamborghini) in basically their own company. They’re scared they might have to hire an extra designer for their 911 team.

porsche keep their style of the 911 the same, becuase it should be reflecting the history of the classic 911 and porsche makes shore that the 911 reflects that porsches never change and always stay the same character.

But in my opinion i think that lamborghini are the best looking cars. second comes aston martin.

vwjamesmc –” The VW family of brands is one interesting collection of automobiles.”

needs to said again. They really do have quite the names under their egis. Lotus just added.

Maybe now the $60K Bugatti will make it market.

I understand what your saying about the car/airplane analogy, that its impressive that at xxx mph a 100 ton jet will lift off the ground whereas at even higher speeds the car stays on the ground, and stable at that. But if you think about it, the airplane isn’t supposed to stay on the ground, its intended purpose is to take off as quick as possible in order to do its job. So the analogy just doesn’t work for me. Their designed to be the opposite of each other, lift/down force. I guess were just having to agree to disagree on this one. I never thought about it, but VW’s profile is quite impressive, Lambo, Bugatti, Lotus, Porsche themselves included. Was it Bugatti that had an 18 cylinder motor? I saw a vehicle that had one when I was at the Detroit auto show many years ago, but I can’t recall who made it.

Lets see:

Lamborghini Gallardo: 520 bhp, 196 mph, 0-60 in 4 seconds.

Porsche 911 (997) Turbo: 480 bhp (+ on demand overboost which adds 45 lb-ft of torque), 193 mph, 0-62 in 3.7 seconds (tiptronic).

Seems pretty damn comparable to me.

Jon.

Must be a slow news day

Gallardos and 911’s are for two COMPLETELY different types of people. Yes many of us would be happy with either of them, but for the people dropping $140-180k on a car, they know what the hell they want going into the purchase. The Gallardo is extreme, showy, radical, and cool; while the 911 Turbo is subdued, sophisticated, and stealthier than anything lamborghini is offering. They may have similar performance numbers, but sit the two cars next to each other and theyre entirely two different tastes for actual buyers.

A4,

Well, yeah… but my point was to answer SRT-4Ken’s comment.

Jon.

the Koenigsegg CCX has the record for a speeding ticket at 241 mph in texas.

thats 388 kph

yeah i wasnt necessarily calling you out about it, but porsche needs to get the hell out of VW’s hair. If they turn them into toyota ill hang myself.

THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FINALY SOME CAR COMPANY HAS SOME BALLS!!!!!!!!!

A4,
The goal of the Porsche CEO’s comments might have been to light a fire under the VW brass and get them thinking about profits again. The Veyron, really, was an exercise in ego, not a sound business plan. When it comes down to it, a car company is supposed to make money, period. We really have no idea about the backroom dealings between the companies, and with Porsche now a 20% stockholder, their financial well being is tied to VW’s success.
Perhaps it was a shot across the bow?

They caught the car at 241 mph? with what? A helicopter?

Jon.

^ lol

I doubt there were too many Koenigsegg CCX driving around, probably would have been pretty easy to figure out who it belonged to. More than likely was a good citizen and just pulled over and waited 15 minutes for the cop to catch up.

I agree with A4 about the Gallardo/Turbo comparison, yes the numbers may be similar,. but that really means nothing. Compare the Murcielago and the Gallardo, the 0-60 numbers are pretty close but that has nothing to do w/ the character of the car, the character of the buyer, and the way in which they drive. The Gallardo and the Turbo really couldn’t be more different in terms of purpose, intent, and style.

As much as VW is getting bombarded about the non-profitability of carrying these ubber brands, i don’t think their executives would be quick to drop them. The marketing appeal they bring to the whole company is just too good. You have to think how this would influence the consumer as well as benefit the whole company. Currently Audi is just having a wild day throwing Lamborghini engines into it’s family station wagons and what not. In my opinion having theses brands in the vw group does increase the desirability of even its cheaper products. For instance a golf owner might feel more important knowing that they bought a product from the same company that makes the world’s Most Expensive & Fastest Car!!!….you see my point? I think desirability is more important than profits when it comes to sustaining a brand in the long run. You can use Detroit as an example for this, which i think is guilty for overlooking this point and thats why it is in such chaos right now. Think about it we loved our american cars more when they had outrageous engines and other cool stuff . However Detroit sold their souls and started doing things the Japanese way, profit first.
Which is what i think Porsche is going to try to mold and bully VW into as it’s increasing stake in the company gives it more of a say in how things are done.Soo ya like you said Meekin111.. f#ck Porsche!

camero: If they started doing things the Japanese way, as you say “profit first”, then why aren’t they making any profits, and why in fact, are they losing big money? They clearly aren’t doing anything the Japanese way, because they’re sure as hell not making money. They are, however, doing things the ****ty American way.

i should have been more clear, i should have said they TRIED to do things the Japanese way and they failed miserably. The Japanese don’t even do what they do, Detroit tries to save on production cost and maximize profits by just making one car and re badging it a bazillion times. “will just make a ford, put some extra chrome on it and call it a Lincoln” like what kind of desperate marketing is that. What does that do to the individual brand’s desirability. Of course nobody is going to want a Plymouth if they can get a Chrysler or Dodge that is EXACTLY THE SAME. They kill off a car like the Prowler that brought desirability and individuality to the brand, and then they populate the whole line up with some cheesy rebadged dodges and expect not to go out of business.
The Japanese don’t stupidily rebadge thier cars! at least not any more, Honda and Toyota were guilty of reworking some of their cars into their luxury brands but they saw how stupid it is and have recently cut loose most if not all similarities between their luxury and cheaper brands.
The only way Detroit is ever going to be profitable is if these mega car corporation break up, or if they organize themselves and start making individual and desirable products for each respective brand like VW does. You know make the Veyrons, R8s, Murcielagos, Pheatons etc

I’m not sure I like this whole thing where anyone can buy a super car. It would make those Bugatti and Lamborghini owners feel less about their car. The people who do go out and buy these cars buy them for name, and speed. If car companies start to bridge the gap between these super car companies, and everyday car companies money will be lost. Sure you are giving the middle/lower class family, Studant, even teacher a chance to enjoy the power and such, but that would only mean we would
a) Lose companies like Bugatti, and Lamborghini. Because why would you go out and buy a Lamborghini when you can get a VW that’ll go the same speeed for a fraction of the price and watch the person whose worked his ass off to get his Lamborghini in your rear view mirrior. Really gives you a cheap feeling if you ask me.
b) People wont really work as hard as they can to earn a car they want because there is another one wich is almost alike that it would be easyer to get that.
I think if they kept the distance where it belongs then people would have more respect for cars in general. How they drive, work, feel, look, etc.
Side Note
I think that BMW And Merc have it right in some ways. Like M Power and AMG. You still have that desire to buy those cars even though you may have a 335i coupe with all the bells.

sorry just ranting i guess