I am the best!
Can you spare $100 Billion dollars?
I’ve had a bad quarter century
Thanks.
(Suckers)
DrFill

Cap executive pay? Are you f*cking kidding me- that’s their big concession? He should be fired on the spot for that statement alone.

Dear GM Stockholders:

How much longer are you willing to keep Wagoner and Lutz around, until Chapter 11 or the stock goes under a buck?

GM lost my confidence (and more important, my $$,$$$) when you killed the Firebird in ‘02. Bad Move!
Oh wait, my ‘03 Envoy I got for 0% interest, yupjust got yet another recall letter on it this week.

You two have successfully destroyed General Motors, and to now have the b@lls to dictate a position of keeping the current management as “we have the best management team to run GM”…
Here’s my thoughts…
GO F YOURSELF Wagoner (you too Lutz!)!

This is bullsh**. Decades of corporate mismanagement should not be rewarded. Screw this guy and screw General Motors.

This guy is a class A bonehead. GM has got to be a miserable place to work. This bastard is going to force his engineers to work 100 hours a week to push untested and lousy cars to the market, further hampering GM’s lousy reputation. At the end, he will blame the American worker because he can’t “compete.” After the cars are on the market, he will hand them all pink slips and transfer the remains of the company to a tech center and a plant in the Guagadong province of China.

After this, he will collect $100 million and open up a lobbying firm in Washington, DC or a bank in New York so that he can push for more freeeeee trade type deals to further decimate the country’s industrial base. If this were another country, he’d be in jail, not lobbying for a bailout.

Let GM fall!! That way I dont have to pay for the new 2500 I just bought… kidding of course. Bottom line is our Govt will bail them out. The question is will GM learn from their mistake?

GM?
Learn?
HAAAAA HAAAA
HAHAHAHAHAH
LOLOLOL!
HAHAHAHHAHAH!
Oh man
I need a drink after that one
You know what?
Your a funny guy!
DrFill

I agree DrFill. I dont blame people for their mistakes however I do ask that they pay for them and GM being bailed totally negates their stupidity (i cant spell) they have done in the past say 20 years.

Not that I am a fan of the management types; but, it is starting to sound a lil’ like the French Revolution around here . . . hope there are no public squares in Detroit . . . sheesh.

p.s. Time to burnish my good proletarian credentials . . . I guess I should learn some basic carpentry or bricklaying to save my neck, or so I can take care of myself when . . . THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING . . .

no GM is not going to learn from this… they haven’t learned anything in 20 years so why will they now, especially that the same executive boneheads are going to be kept. they don’t see that they are doing anything wrong, they will just blame the credit/ financial mess for it and keep stuffing their pockets. i say they deserve to get brought down to their knees, clean up the management, their product line, and then give them some money … aaaagh screw GM

You idiots knocking the bailout do realize the European car manufacturers are asking for 55 billion dollars . The Australian’s are to receive 6.2 billion. I guess they had “Decades of corporate mismanagement” as well huh?

this guy needs to get a job with becky the retard wiping tables in a high school cafeteria
they need to get rid of unions and they need to kill of their **** mobiles starting with buick

Auto company bailouts have not worked. Does anyone remember British Leyland?

“I think our job is to make sure we have the best management team to run GM. It’s not clear to me what purpose would be served [by resignation].”

I think not. I’m starting to feel like I did a few weeks ago when Hank Paulson was ranting about how important it was to spend our taxes and the taxes of future generations.

Everyone seems to be lining up for a handout….

Wagoner is no longer a leader, he forfeited that title while waltzing around the primrose path at the expense of others within GM, and of GM itself. He, Lutz, a slew of others, and the Board of Directors, need to go to make any meaningful change.

wow, sounds like the apocalypse is near with all of these stories, I picked the perfect time to graduate from college and go into the auto industry…..
if it is still there by then

So, if Lutz/Wagoner are so inept, who should be hired to replace them? No doubt, GM is doing very badly. But during their tenure truly competitive products, such as the C6, G8, and CTS have come to light. Additionally, they’ve negotiated big concessions from the labor unions (who are arguably more to blame for this meltdown).

In the end, I think Lutz/Wagoner inherited a big mess, and are in the process of fixing it. Too bad the world economy in spiraling down the drain at the same time.

I think this has to happen immediately as I stated in a previous thread.
However, I also think Wagoner should step down.
He deserves to be fired just for changing the name of the Cobalt to the Cruze. What a maroon.

I’m not sure if i should get reeeeaaally angry or just burst into laughter. Even before thinking of pushing gov-money into any corporation, I suggest to review the company-(real)-success vs. the bonus payment to execs. I’m under the impression, that a lot of gov-support is just being used to compensate for the ridiculously high bonus paid to a few. How else can it be, that the gov is pushing 700b into the wallstreet and there are still 70b being paid out as bonus… strange times, if you ask me

One of the reasons the australian companies need help is they are in essence run by the same d***heads that are running GM and Ford in the US. We have only so much decision making power here and everything else goes through the US. EG. Ford Falcon rear wheel driver scrapped from possible export to the US. This is a car that could really have helped Ford at the moment, its a family rear wheel drive car, which for its size is not that bad on the fuel. Instead Ford want to keep selling really old towncars and stuff to the poor american public. I hope GM does fold and then someone else can buy GM Holden and maybe things will improve here too,

No Rick, you’ve got it backwards. The US economy will sink faster if they do bail out GM. Look at AIG. The same thing will occur with GM once the lifeline is extended, only a lot worse.

Chaotic times are opportunities. There are always those who will gain a lot from one time deals such as gov bailouts. To bail those corps out is to take over the mess of spoiled brats. They’ll never learn from their mistakes. It’s all politics… sad…

He may be willing to cap executive pay, but I bet he is not willing to take a pay but to save the company millions.

Time for GM to go.

To hell with the consequences, I’m sure we’ll all survive and this will be a monumental event in history. Go to hell Wagoner, and take your ****ty company with you.

GM needs to stay. The Big 3 account for over 10% of the US economy and if politicians have any brains (not likely) they’ll loan them the money but it should be like the loan they gave Lee Iacocca. He could only receive $1 per year until the loan was paid off, and low and behold it was paid off early. He brags about paying off the loan early but really we all know his motivation.

How are Toyota and Honda linked into this? I would have thought it would help Ford if it’s major competitor disappeared at least from a sales perspective, unless GMC dump loads of cheap vehicle (that no one wants) on the market. Surely GM in Europe are a separate entity and could continue to exist as would Saab?

Either way the captain should go down with the ship, no CEO is left in any of the bailed out Banks check them out. The board should go period, that much is obvious anything else shows a lack of self respect.

Think the Volt looks good personally, someone must be doing something right.

It is rarely the workers fault that cars are badly built, quality goes further than the people on the produciton line. It goes in to the design of the car, the design of the components and the design of the whole manufacturing process (only Germany and Japan seem to get this right). Toyota and Honda manage to build quality cars within Europe and the USA for good money why can’t GM and Ford manage the same thing?

The management at the top that either fix things or leave nothing else fits. After all if you take the paycheck deilver the goods or do the decent thing and leave without a large cash payout for failure.

Gentlemen, many of you make good points but looking at recent product offerings from GM, regardless of where they come from, you can see they’re taking steps in the right direction. Revamping a whole product line-up is very expensive and in a couple of years GM will have at least a couple of models you will want. But, this problem is bigger than GM. The American auto industry is just as vital, if not more so, than even the housing market. As Americans we should set our bias aside and work towards saving GM. Not because we love them but because if it goes under it will affect all of us to some degree, guaranteed.

Our country needs a strong auto industry to keep pace with the rest of the world. But at what price?

“Capping” executive pay? I would LOVE to have my salary capped at those levels. No, sir. If a buyout is offered by the Feds, the executives at the Big 3 all need to be looking at serious pay cuts (at least 50%) and they need to have all bonuses stopped and all stock options suspended until the companies are firmly back on their feet and have repaid the country that supported them in the first place.

Anything short of that and I would prefer they bite the dust.

PS I also disagree with Wagoner’s comment about other companies hurting if GM went belly up. Customers would have to go somewhere. Maybe the die hards would go to Ford and Chrysler first, but everyone else would also get a piece of that pie too.

All i can say in the end is not matter what country you are in governments should not be bailing out companies that can not look after themselves, be they private or public, be they big or small. If the company cannot survive then they should sink. Tax payers money should be put to better use.

The Feds should tell Wagoner GM can have the money. But first, he needs to resign and leave without a Fat Cat golden handshake. There has to be someone who can pick up the pieces of this company and successfully move it forward.

The money should also be handed out piecemeal, unlike in the case of AIG, where the executive pos can’t seem to help themselves from spending the taxpayers money at expensive resorts getting their nails done. Just to be sure it doesn’t happen again, they should rip all their fingernails out.

I hope that all those unAmerican fawks out there who chose to support all those foreign brands and ignoring your own country will be paying for the bailout of GM. It is because of you A-holes that GM is in trouble in the first place.

Good luck paying for your mistakes! Go GM!

Wow i was fealiing a little sorry for GM, Rick, Lutz, but after reading the above i must agree. If you surrender your ship how can you possibly demand anything? You are now a government owned corporation. I think Ralph Nader shold be the CEO! I also disagree that some sort of vortex will occour when GM folds, life will go on and sales will go to Ford, Honda, & Toyota, VW, Nissan etc. Maybe when GM folds Chrysler will come back.

Ur taxes are gonna go through the roof you unpatriotic pricks!

HAHAHAHAHA might want to rethink that purchase next time you step foot in that Toyota or BMW dealership! Not only will you be a complete embarrassment to your country, but you will also be looked upon as a terrorist f&ck who sold his or her country to the swine of the earth (Japan, Germany).

It is your duty as Americans to support Americans by buying GM. Otherwise face the consequences of your mistakes.

More Oil: What is more American, buying a car from a US company made in Mexico or Canada or a German/Japanese car made in the US?

Second it should be the auto makers “duty” to make vehicles Americans want to buy.

Get your head out of your ass

The money that ultimately goes back to the US is all that matters and should be the first thing that consumers should be concerned with. It is time we Americans stopped sending our money over to these slimeballs in other countries.

Who cars if we put japan or Germnay out of business? Even those who wrongfully consider themselves “Americans” who work for these scumbags selling import garbage should not matter to the consumer. These f&cks have already sold out their country by working for these scumbags in the first place. They should be the ones suffering, not the real Americans who work for GM , from the assembly to their fine dealerships.

Think of your fellow countryment. Do the right thing. Buy GM or leave

@Need more oil for GM, have you always been an insipid ass? Are you so myopic that you cannot see the forest for the trees? Are you a piss-water beer drinker who cannot appreciate the finer beers in life? If you are so American then go and pay-off the debt service to China that America has amassed. You sound like a neo-GM Nazi with all your rhetoric.

Money will go in some form to “Need more oil for GM” – some corporate sphincter muscle who posts here instead of working and demands now tax money for his productivity gains.
Chapter 11 is sufficient protection for any company. I would like see restructuring, before taxes are spend on arrogant anuses.

Sheesh.. Of course the Bush administration doesn’t want to deal with GM’s problem. It was Bush administration for relaxing the CAFE standard. If it had granted CA emission standards by in the early 90’s. This wouldn’t be much of an impact today.

The only care for designing the ugly cars (ie Ponitac Aztek). I wondered if they fire anyone for that project.

I think the Obama administration should demand that the entire Board of Directors and key management personnel (CEO, CFO, VP of xxxx) resign without the golden parachute, and buy back their stock options at 1/8 of the price as part of the agreement.. The government is showing that it willling to help but only if they can guarantee it would happen in the future. If they don’t agree, let them go down with the ship.

Not to mention, there always another company willing to fill the vod. I doubt any auto maker won’t enjoy taking the remaining market share from GM, it just extra money in the pockets.

Nature has a saying…..”Only the strong shall survive….”

GM WILL BK
Maybe not next year
But it is coming
And that may not be a bad thing
DrFill

Im pretty sure most of the high executive positions should forgo their pay for a little while as they no doubt have lots of money sitting in the banks. Caps should have been put in place a long time ago.

Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz are not the ones at blame here. We need to realize it is the f’n so-called “Americans” who continuously commit treason in this Country by supporting imports. These people need to get with the program or leave. This country will be much better off without them and their sniveling ways.

All you unAmerican A-holes who are working the assembly lines or the showroom floors at your Toyota and Honda dealerships need to wake up and understand that you are doing nothing for this country except selling your country to the slime of the Earth. You are an embarrassment to this Country and need to either get out of this country or die. This is GM country people, and you don’t belong here selling terrorists’ product.

Rick Wagoner and Bob Lutz are being wrongfully accused for the buying publics mistakes. They are both Martyrs and will go down in history as the greatest corporate managment in the history of this great Country. There is no reason to believe that they will bring GM back to greatness, even greater than they are right now. It’s just a matter of killing off the plague that is the treasonists across America.

There is no reason to believe that they can’t bring GM back to greatness, even greater than they are right now.

Let ‘em file for Chapter 11 just like everyone else… fire the idiots up top and ditch the unions, that’s the only way GM is ever going to have a chance.

So you are saying that one should buy what they think is a POS GM car made in Mexico where the Mexicans get paid to make it over say a Honda made in the US that employs US workers? It is called Free Market for a reason, if you feel everyone in the US should drive a GM why don’t you start by buying me a new Corvette, I wont even be picky and ask for a Z06 or ZR-1.

Bush is right, we shouldn’t bailout the auto market, just let them crash and burn like what GM did to AMC. Both Chrysler and GM already in trouble few years ago already, and the management keep f-up everything and try to walk out with few extra million dollar in their own pocket. AIG does the same thing too. The only reason Honda and Toyota is going to go down is they have partner with GM for a while now specially Toyota. All those CEO and top manager get pay way too much money already, and now they have totally mess everything up and still want to take home extra money.

The CAFE stander should be in the 35mpg long time ago, not 2012. What we need is a real car guy to run the auto business, instead those loser who think they can run this business. Look at all those GM and Chrysler car and truck looks like crap and ugly, that’s why no one want to buy it and the quility are sucks too. Some one just have stick their foot in to those CEO and top manager’s ass, and fired them one by one and reform a stander pay for CEO and managers.

If all of you think back to the year 2001, who was it that burned thru money like there was no tomorrow to help ou the country? If it wasn’t for GM & Ford coming out with the programs after 9/11 to stimulate & jump start the economy, when all of us thought the economic world was coming to an end, we would have been in a similar situation that we are in now. That’s when they offered 0% financing on all of their vehicles, at the time they had no idea whether there was going to be more money to borrow at GMAC or FMCC. Sure they benifited from it, but so did the american people. It could have failed miserably, they could have lost billions of $, but they put their faith into american. Why is it now such a terrible thing for them to look for a little payback. I do agree that they MUST limit exec. pay, those guys to need to get a taste of what the rest of us are going thru. But like I’ve said before, if the american auto makers go down, the whole country is in for a depression.

Are you guys sure this isn’t the unions fault, Wagoner should afraid wait very afraid to start any of his 20 cars in his garage.

All you unAmerican A-holes who are working the assembly lines or the showroom floors at your Toyota and Honda dealerships need to wake up and understand that you are doing nothing for this country except selling your country to the slime of the Earth. You are an embarrassment to this Country and need to either get out of this country or die. This is GM country people, and you don’t belong here selling terrorists’ product.

Needforoil
The only terrorists are bloggers like you and Management like GM’s
More evidence that you shouldn’t blog with handcuffs on
DrFill

the comments are starting to get cliche. why not wish for the bankruptcy of all the banks and other financial institutions while your at it. if everything happened what everyone here is wishing for this world would be a Mad Max era waste land.

“Wagoner said GM is willing to cap executive pay” …….LOL..LOL….LOL…..,
“But he’s unwilling to step down as CEO, and he doesn’t think major management changes will solve the problem.”…..LOL…LOL….LOL….

THE TRUTH TO THE FACT IS, THAT FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL BALE OUT THE BIG 3, THEY DID IT ONCE BACK IN THE EARLY 90′S FOR DODGE, THEY WILL DO IT AGAIN, YOU CAN BLAME WHO EVER YOU WANT THEY WILL GET IT, THERE’S GOING TO BE A DEMOCRAT IN OFFICE AND THE UNIONS PAID BIG MONEY FOR IT, IF THEY GET THERE WAY THERE WILL BE A NEW “IMPORTATION TAX” FOR FOREIGN AUTO MAKERS, MAKING THEM TO START BUILDING THERE CARS STATE SIDE, AND SO THE UNION WILL GET IN ALL THE U.S. PLANTS REGARDLESS OF MANUFACTURER…
“WHAT, DON’T TELL ME YOU GUY’S DIDN’T GET THE MEMO”…

Just buy gold and relax … it’ll all work out in the end just ike it did in January of 1980.

I guess I’ll have to re-post what I wrote on the other Thread. Yes, GM has screwed up product wise for a long time but they have been producing good product the last few years and they are coming out with even better stuff the next year (if they make it). To have such disdain for a home grown company is pretty repulsive to me.

Anyone who wants to see GM go down and all its employees lose their jobs is insane.

The suppliers who supply parts to GM, Chrysler, and Ford also supply parts to Toyohondasan. If suddenly the Big 3 go bankrupt those suppliers will not have enough cash to remain in business, meaning your beloved foreign auto manufacturers will not be able to build the cars you will only buy.

After the Big 3 go under, the suppliers go under, then every company that caters to these companies start to fall like dominoes-the restaurants, barbers, dry cleaners, office supply stores, advertising agencies, etc etc all go out of business leaving a mass of unemployed who will now be dependent on the Govmnt for unemployment, health care, pensions, then most likely welfare.

We are talking about millions of jobs and billions of dollars over what GM needs as a bridge loan to get them through this crisis.

And while they may have brought some of this on themselves product wise, that is mostly in the past, and they are competing against companies that do not have to pay health care for their workers, from countries that did not give the same market access as we gave to their companies.

Lastly, ALL of the car companies are failing right now-Toyota down 25%, Honda and Nissan and Mercedes down big time. Noone saw this coming, if it weren’t for the credit crisis this discussion would not be taking place. Since it is and they all have great product coming out next year when hopefully the credit crisis will have eased they need a bridge loan to get them there. This is not unreasonable considering the Federal Govmnt does absolutely nothing to aid our manufacturers while all foreign Govmnts do aid their industries.

To sum up-It will cost us MUCH more later than doing something now, both in monetary terms and psychological.
It may not bother you to see the USA have no Homegrown Auto companies left, but I guarantee it would bother Real Amercans a great deal.

As I said before
Give them money
Fine
Won’t solve the problem
Insolvency is the effect of their problems
Not the cause
DrFill

Need more money (for GM…) LOL

Everyone’s ‘favorite’ GM apologist has really been “drinking the koolaid” but sadly it hasn’t killed him yet.

If we the taxpayers are going to own a piece of this badly run company, I want some say about what it does next. Without adult supervision, the GM brain trust will simply take our $50 billion, power up the Suburban / Tahoe production line, call the UAW back to work at triple time, and proclaim all’s well.

These people learn nothing — ever.

As a potential new part-owner of General Motors I command that Buick, Pontiac, and Saturn be killed off immediately. Hummer must be sold by Friday to some Indian loosehead. Chevrolet, Cadillac, and GMC will continue with no more than ten nameplates sold at Chevy, five at Caddy, three at GMC. And GM will commit today to producing no more pure gasoline-powered vehicles by 2015.

Listen to your new owners, you idiots… the American people.

I forgot to rule on the fate of Saab. Either sell Saab to the Chinese or use new Saabs to make artifical reefs. Stop bothering the American people with dozens of nearly identical cars that you don’t know how to market or justify and that are designed to be sold fifteen years ago. That is all.

LET GM BURN. Its gonna be a cold winter anyway. And throw NEED MORE OIL FOR GM in the fire too.

its a shame, really. after 25 years of slacking they finally get decent products out, and run out of money.

Did Vegas run any odds on when GM would actually start giving a $@&! about the cars they made?
DrFill

@NMOFGM, though as I said earlier, GM should be helped, I disagree with you in that it is not the consumer’s fault for GM being in this position. The reality is that they did it to themselves. They relied heavily on trucks and SUVs while the rest of the market had a more complete line-up with better built cars. When the bottom fell out of the SUV market mainly due to high gas prices, GM took a knee. Add to that the fact that credit has nearly ceased in the US market, GM took the second knee. The difference is that they were finally starting to show signs of decent offerings. And if Wagoner needs to get the hell out of there for GM to survive, let me know. I’ll go get’m.

In my earlier post, I was supportive of trying to save GM. But, after reading the posts from Need More Oil for GM, I’ve changed my mind. Let GM go under. Not Chapter 11, under all the way. This way NMOFGM will lose his job cleaning the mens room at the GM plant. When that happens, he’ll no longer be able to afford his monthly ISP bill, and therefore, he won’t be able to post his intellectual thoughts on this forum. Only then will we be able to go back to having a healthy debate on the fate of the domestic auto industry. The fate of the imports too, I suppose.

I have to strongly disagree, Pronoun
Without the dinasours, what would become of our Jurassic Park?
I’d stop comin’!
(More potential upside)
DrFill

I’m a big believer in the “free market” system. But, the world market isn’t always a free one — to wit, many markets essentially prohibit GM from selling cars there, while we welcome cars from that market. Hardly fair to GM. Thank the government for that.
I don’t like the idea of bailing out GM — I’m a big believer in “you get what you deserve” — but we’re talking about millions of jobs that are at risk if GM goes under.
I’m not sure that Wagoner & Co. should be forced to resign. As one poster commented: he and his administration have made huge strides at renegotiating union contracts, trimming the fat, etc. And he inherited a product line that, frankly, he couldn’t just kill — it was the $10-15K per SUV that kept GM afloat while it got new products ready and streamlined operations worldwide. Those new products have just started coming to market, and they’re REALLY GOOD — probably good enough to “save the company”, if the company can manage to be kept around.
Lots of companies need loans to operate — small ones and big ones. GM’s at the size that a bank can’t do it — it needs the government’s help. And I’m all for giving it to them … if the government oversees how the money is spent. No massive executive salaries, no golden parachutes, and lots of wise decisions.
You can probably tell which brand I’m partial to from my screenname, but if I were running GM, there’d be one brand left in the US: Chevy. I’d keep the best models from each division (not necessarily just the ones that were selling), and ditch the rest. These are tough times and they call for tough decisions. The world has changed and GM’s old plan of numerous brands no longer makes sense — it costs too much and is too confusing in a world of 47,000 competing brands. But I’m an optimist: I believe GM can make it through this, and I believe it can again be the powerhouse it once was … only different.

Well, the other bad news for GM is that with their market cap around $2.9B, they will likely get delisted from the Dow 30. That will be a huge blow and will erode much of what’s left of confidence in the brand and the company. As others have posted above, they have finally come into their own with some of the quality offerings they now have and, have in the pipeline. As the old saying goes, “so much in life is timimg”.

…timing.

Be reasonable. GM’s current management inherited legacy costs which were unsustainable. Even in their best years they could not match the profit margins and R&D investments that could be made by Toyota and Honda. Wagoner and Co. took a system that was broken and began to fix it. They took billions out of costs, fixed product development, improved quality to a level at which the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry have not even placed among the best midsize sedans (which even Consumer Reports now belatedly acknowledges), eliminated redundant and duplicate programs in different parts of the world, poured money into competing with Toyota in Asia (one of their only growth and profit regions now), brought in a cheap subcompact at a time when not even Toyota could sell one and Honda didn’t even try, slashed daily rental sales which hurt resale values (resale values are now growing by leaps and bounds), negotiated an historic labor agreement to cut real wages and shift the burden of healthcare to the UAW, poured hundreds of billions into the company’s pension plan to ensure it would not be a future liability, they brought out fuel-economy class-leading products as oil prices spiked (not the year after). Analysts agreed that from 2010 when the new labor agreements really take effect, that the company would be in the position it needs to be to compete with Toyota and make the money it needs to.

But then oil prices spiked, catching everyone by surprise, even Toyota with a brand-spanking new big truck plant which has been sitting idle for months. Even Hyundai Kia, who picked now to bring out a new BOF midsize SUV just as the market tanked. And then the housing bubble burst, thanks to decades of government interference (at the instigation of Democrats and the acquiescence of many Republicans) in lending aimed at opening the housing market to more people (the ones now losing their homes). At first this crimped sales of work trucks favored by builders and contractors at every level, but as foreclosures boomed, lending losses began to spiral out of control, credit for all borrowers began to dry up, exacerbating foreclosures as people could no longer refinance. As housing prices plummet, home equity disappears. Businesses unable to refinance existing lines of credit begin to fail. Unable to access capital, commercial and consumer lenders cannot finance purchases of equipment, vehicles, homes, appliances etc. This particularly impacts car sales. Buyers cannot find finance. Dealers cannot finance inventory. In this environment not even Toyota, paradigm of efficiency and gross margins, cannot make money. North American losses of $353 million in the last quarter are just the tip of the iceberg. The true cost of doing business in North America for Toyota this last quarter was actually more than $US800 million, as export earnings from Japan crashed due to the correction in the value of the US dollar. With nearly 50% of the domestic market (supported by seven sales channels—Toyota, Toyopet, Corolla, Netz, Lexus, Daihatsu and Hino) and export earnings from other regions this loss has been absorbed by the Japanese arm. With sales continuing to fall there is worse to come for Toyota, but at least the currency losses will be contained by falling exports. All of which is merely to point out that if GM was run as well as Toyota, with Toyota’s margins, they would still be losing money in this market, hand over fist. Despite good performances in Latin America, Asia and Eastern Europe, they don’t have Toyota’s rich protected domestic market to support losses in North America. Having dug themselves out of a hole, with the light starting to shine through, the domestic industry has been shot in the back. Congress unfortunately agrees with most of you—they think this is GM’s fault, not theirs, and they don’t want to do anything about it. They will not recall congress to authorize funding because they think the domestic industry should be shut down. If people lose their jobs and the economy tanks, it’s ok, they can blame Bush, and people will believe them.

Don’t underestimate the effect. If GM fails, then suppliers will fail, if suppliers fail then Ford and Chrysler go with them. 3 million people in the industry and local businesses dependent on them will be unemployed, within months. Millions of people depend on GM alone for healthcare coverage, and the supporting funding has not all been transferred to the VEBA fund to support them. With an additional 3 million people out of work, the economic situation will be horrendous. The direct economic impact will cost governments several times the cost of rescue package, and unlike the investment being asked for, will never be recovered. That does not include the flow-on effect to the rest of the economy—an economic black hole sucking more and more people into it. Toyota’s recent North American losses will pall into insignificance. Businesses across the country will be forced to lay off more and more workers as spending collapses, At that stage the US government will not be able to finance the stimulus package needed. Social Security is nearly bankrupt already.The highway fund is already bankrupt. There is no cash hoard from past surpluses to spend. Tax revenue will crater even without further tax cuts. If the government does not spend the paltry $50 billion now to invest in Detroit now, it really will be the end of the world as you know it.

Ahhh, I’ll be glad when there isn’t a GM. Hey NMOFGM, how about” Need More Oil For Honda”? Hmm, sounds good…

I guess some of you haven’t noticed—GM is already killing BOF SUVs. The midsize models will cease production within months. The large trucks were to get a new program but with sales falling, that has already been cut. V8 engine programs have already been cut. GM’s money, what little it has, is going into mini-compacts, subcompacts and compacts. It is going into six-speed transmissions, 8-speed transmissions, small turbocharged engines, direct injection, a broader range of subcompacts, a compact rwd platform. Its going into the development of systems to produce ethanol from agricultural and household waste (Toyota and Honda lobby against biofuels because they are decades behind in engine development). What’s next? New compacts for Chevrolet, Saturn and Buick, a new small Cadillac like the 3-series. A smaller 9-3 and subcompact Saab. A smaller SRX. 4- and 6-cylinder crossovers to replace the BOF SUVs, with hybrid powertrains already developed for them. Even more compact crossovers based on a stretched subcompact platform. A new generation of compact minivans and subcompact MPVs (small 5-seat vans). It is going into light commercial vehicles like the original compact vans they produced in the early ’60s (they were small—no longer than an Aveo or Fit). Congress agreed to fund further investment in these areas because it is unclear that you will make the switch, but GM, and Ford, have already made much of the investment without government support.

The Australian government is promising a little more than $US2 billion, but not until 2011, by which time it may be too late to do anything but pay Toyota to switch production from the Camry to the Corolla. Ford has already decided to switch production from midsize to compact cars, and GM may follow, if the money can be found. Toyota is the holdout. They, like Ford and GM, are asking for tariffs to be maintained instead.

Should all have been done 20 years ago. GM, etc. have known since 1973 that fuel prices were unstable and prone to rising. They’ve ignored market realities and now the piper must be paid.

I remember 1973 very well. If you’d walked up to me that year and told me that 35 years later, General Motors’ key vehicle launch of 2008 would be a hulking quartet of 7-passenger CUVs that get 14 mpg, I would have laughed in your face. 14 mpg is what our ‘72 Plymouth Satellite wagon got. Even then we knew it was a dinosaur.

Piper? Play.

now honestly, would you want to buy a car built by a company that is very near bankruptsy?? GM’s bleak financial situation is only making things worse for their already poor reputation. Say hello to a new car company called United Motors. Its already in talks, a very possible outcome because the current situation with the big (sad) three can no longer continue. The American auto industry is almost dead. United motors is the only hope we got to keeping domestic auto jobs here.

I cannot believe some people think its because people are buying other brands that GM is in trouble. People would not buy other brands if GM offered what they wanted or perhaps if they built them to a better standard. Dont go blaming the innocent american public who have bought a Toyota for example, because obviously GM did not offer them something they wanted.

This is something else that annoys me, the big brass in the big three are all stuck in this mindset that AMERICAN is best. Now in some cases this is right. No one builds trucks like the US. But they have to have a serious look at there other divisions around the world that have awesome products available that they could probably get very quickly too market and maybe help themselbeves out instead of always trying to come up with there own thing. GM has started doing this with things like the G8 from Australia. Ford should do the same, they have a brilliant product range in Australia. just look at this comparison from an Aussie magazine.
http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/Road_Tests/Ford+G6E+Turbo+v+Jag+XF+4.2+v+Merc+E500.html
it shows you that Ford can compete with the best there is. Come on guys wake up.

“You idiots knocking the bailout do realize the European car manufacturers are asking for 55 billion dollars . The Australian’s are to receive 6.2 billion. I guess they had “Decades of corporate mismanagement” as well huh?”

No the Euro companies, if we are talking BMW and Benz have made great cars which is why they deserve any money if /when it is given out. GM Ford and Chrysler made crap and sold it to stupid Americans who thought it they bought GM they were buying patriotism. GM should go down and burn like Impulsive on a sailor during fleet week
GM doesnt deserve sa dime !

‘1115′ is an illiterate import monkey.

Jealousy, in your failure in life, is screaming through that pathetic post .. I own you.

Buy gold, loser … I even help chimps like you in desperate times.

TomF, you demonstrate GM’s real problem—ignorant consumers who think GM is evil, but don’t know anything about the company or it’s products and don’t want to. GM’s major product launches in 2008 are:

The Opel Insignia, a midsize sedan/wagon with a range of 4-cylinder four-cylinder turbocharged diesel and gasoline engines and 6-speed transmissions that gets between 31.2 and 49 US mpg on the European hwy cycle. Even the 217 hp 2.0 Turbo gets 40 mpg on the hwy cycle.

The revised Chevrolet Aveo v1.5 with new Dual-VVT 4-cylinder engines that gets 50 mpg or better on the European hwy cycle, and even in the US with a larger engine, uses less fuel than the brand-new Honda Fit.

GM launched one major CUV this year—the Chevrolet Traverse, and with it upgraded engines with improved economy for existing models. It doesn’t get 14 mpg. It gets 16/24 mpg, better than most midsize CUVs much smaller in size. Hwy fuel economy is as good as the Nissan Murano and Toyota Highlander, and none are any better.

Even GM’s older, BOF SUVs, the Tahoe and Yukon, get better than 14 mpg. A base Tahoe with 4-speed auto gets 14/19 mpg, better than a newer Toyota Sequoia with a 5-speed auto, less power, but only 14/17 mpg. An even larger Suburban with a larger, more powerful V8 gets 14/20 (comparable to a V6 Mazda CX-9), and upgraded versions of the Tahoe/Yukon with 6-speed auto get as much as 15/21 mpg. And these are not new trucks like the Sequoia, they were rushed out early in anticipation that they would not sell as well in later years. While a new diesel will improve economy further it is mainly intended for work trucks—there is no further investment planned for such large BOF trucks. BTW Toyota already has a similar diesel engine for use in it’s large SUVs (produced by former parent company Toyota Industries), but has no plans to offer it in the US, despite the fact that Tundra sales have fallen twice as fast as pickups from more economical American rivals. Like Honda, it may be finding US emissions regulations too hard for diesels.

US product launches in 2008 have focused on powertrain improvements: the new DI engines in the large CUVs, 6-speed autos in the 4-cylinder midsize sedans boosting hwy economy to 33 mpg—class-leading and better than many compacts. And yet, despite this, despite being well ahead of the Camry and Accord for years in JD Powers quality surveys, despite winning Car of the Year awards 2 years in a row with the Aura and Malibu (beating the Camry and Accord respectively), no-one wants to buy them. Bad habits are hard to break. New Dual-VVT engines in the Cobalt and fine-tuning have boosted power and economy for the Cobalt to as much as 37 mpg hwy for manual models (a 6-speed auto arrives with the Cruze, already launched in Korea), and while sales boomed for a while while gas was high, they’ve crashed again now that gas has fallen. It could be worse, they could be trying to sell the Sentra. No-one buys those either, but why would you when the Versa is cheaper, just as big and uses less fuel.

Impulsive is the same loser I remember. I rented a Malibu this past weekend and its a decent effort from the general but I would NEVER considerate in the same league as the Camry or Accord or even the Sonata(and neither has the american public). Im going to find a company that has a Honda or Toyota to rent. I saw a Galant but i chose the Malibu so I could see how it drove

‘1115′ is STILL an import monkey. Kill yourself chimp.

Wagoner did inherit a lot of legacy garbage, but he has not been the leader to fix the old or new problems. Hiring Lutz was a great move, but the ‘brand management’ mess was the first mistake.(can anyone say Ron Zarella?).

Hey Ricky and Bob………I asked you both a couple times about doing small cars with Europe diesels. All you wanted to do was trucks, sport utilities, and the Camaro. I’m sure glad I had a 40+ mpg Toyota when the $4 gasoline hit. Even your Aveo was crap – people were better with the Cobalt, which you continue to ignore. Where is the fuel-efficient direct-inj gas – or diesels at? You had many intelligent folks inside GM that could not get an audience with you. Bob Lutz initially was around, but even he now has too many people around him to hear what the troops are reporting. Bob saw some great folks when he wanted to produce the Solstice. GM has/had the talent to work smart and fast, but only when they can comminicate with the people who make program and budget decisions. Lutz is too isolated to be very effective now. Bob, hope you see this. Leave your helpers and security staff behind – go to the build floor, talk to the real car people like yourself inside GM, and keep the good ideas coming and try to repair the morale. Please note….there is NO MORALE within the troops anymore.

Leave Lutz, but GM needs a new leader. Come on Ricky, you know you aren’t the one to save GM.

As to the comments about GM engineers being asked to work 100 hours in the future, is that we were working 80 hours years ago without compensation. And after being at GM for 17 years the last time (my second time at GM), I worked with VERY TALENTED contract engineers and technical folks – some with 15-20-25 years, and they were abused their entire time at GM and forced out with NO COMPENSATION. The U.S. Govt should be ashamed of allowing those folks to go all those years without forcing GM to hire them, with no benefits, retirement, ect. GM is no different than Ford or Chrysler – to be fair.
Also, as good as GM’s cars are, many cost cuts – or lack of true developmental testing has allowed some poor powertrains issues to come about. The intake plenums in 3800 engines, and the head gaskets in 3400 and 4.3 V/6 engines is deplorable. I have paid for several of each, and there is no viable reimbursement program. Ford quality is terrible (ask my wife, who worked there and had several), and friends with really poor Chrysler products. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan all have their issues even if their owners won’t admit, but there is no excuse of this from the Big 3.
But I for one after 30 years of loyalty to the brand have been shoved out, no retirement, no benefits – and no intent of ever buying a new GM car again. I did buy 22 new cars over the years, but never again!
Sorry GM, but my Scion has only been back for maintenance. It’s not a perfect car, but after turning your back on me after many years of asking me to work 6 days a week, 14-16 hours a day, with threats of termination and no O/T pay – you get what you got coming. It’s time for Ricky to go, and reduce product portfolio. Concentrate on cars and diesels – hybrids and electrics will come when they are ready. Give people cars they can afford to buy – AND OPERATE.