How can Nissan go on having any brand value if the manufacturer shows that even if Nissan DOES have something cool it will immediately get swiped and rebranded?

Should the GT-R be branded an Infinity they will be re-enforcing the effect they are trying to avoid.

I haven’t heard one quip from the Inifiniti dealer camp about how much they respect this car and what it represents, both in racing history and in raw performance value for the enthusiast buyer.

I sincerely hope the original decision stays. Inifiniti could have any high powered pseudo GT car as a halo car and be just as happy. Will they try to change the USA market GT-R into a luxocruiser? Absolutely.

Corvetttes are sold out of the same dealerships as Caddy’s in Europe because the dealerships were combined anyway since American cars were a niche market in Europe – in fact in most cases they are sold from Opel dealerships. Since we didn’t see Cadillac as a premium brand anyway it didn’t really hurt the brand too much.
Chevy dealerships only arrived in Europe when a marketing genius at GM decided that selling Daewoos as Chevrolets would be a good move for an American brand that was already struggling for credibility in Europe. All of a sudded a bunch of Daewoo dealerships became Chevrolet dealerships and Europeans couldn’t decide whether the irony or the sheer stupidity of the move made them laugh more.

I’m not sure if this helps answer the question as to “why” they chose Rxx as a model code…

Although my credibility may have taken a hit on that one, I’m going to say it refers to something other than engine though, because they started referring to R30 Skylines in 1981, which was before the introduction of the RB engines. It’s possible that it just refers to the basic vehicle architecture… like General Motors’ “G-Body” cars… although again, I’m not entirely certain.

GT-R or not, they were all R30, R31, R32, R33 and R34.

The R and V comes from the engine, if I’m not mistaken.
either it’s
R34 = RB-series
V35 = VQ-series
or that the R stands for straight(-6) cylinder engine and that the V stands for a V(-6) engine configuration.

At least for the JDMarket.

I could be wrong with the one above, but I know for a fact that a 1990 GT-S was a R32. What should be noted that only the GT-R’s had the designation BNR.

Also, while dubztar92’s logic is a tad flawed, he makes an interesting point. In theory, this new GT-R should be the R35. While there has been a series of Skylines in production, which is the G35 lineup in North America, these have been V35 Skylines. In previous generations, all models that were not GT-Rs (i.e. GT-S, GT-S 4, GT, etc.) were all designated with a “V” in front of the generation number. So, a 1990 GT-S 4 would be a V32 Skyline. It was ONLY the GT-Rs in a given generation that were referred with the “R” designation. Hence, a 1996 GT-R is an R33 Skyline. When the Skyline went from the “34″ generation to the “35″ generation, the GT-R was dropped. So, a Nissan Skyline in Japan or an Infiniti G35 in North America is referred to as a “V35.” As no GT-R has yet been produced on this architecture there has been, to the best of my knowledge, no car referred to as an “R35.”

However, I do believe that Nissan continued to produce the R34 GT-R for a brief period after all the other R34 models were discontinued. I highly doubt (read: I am 99.99% positive that this is not the case) that these Skyline GT-Rs, although produced in the same model years as other V35 Skylines, were referred to as R35s. I have the same suspicion that the limited edition Nismo Z-Tune GT-Rs from a year or so ago were also never referred to as R35s, because even though they were pretty much completely rebuilt by Nismo, they were still built using the “34″ Skyline as a base.

It should probably be noted that the name “G35″ is neither reference to the fact that it is the “35″ generation Skyline, nor is “G” some bizarre English-to-Japanese-and-then-back-to-English translation of “V.” Infiniti has been selling “G” cars in North America for about 15 years, and “G” is just designates a kind of mid-size sports sedan/coupe, like BMW’s “3.” From 1991 to about 2002 it was a rebadged Nissan Primera, which had a 2.0L, SR20DE engine. The “20″ in the engine designation is the standard Nissan practice of referring to the displacement of the engine in decilitres (100mL x 20 = 2000mL = 2.0L). The same practice is at work in the GT-R, which has an RB26DETT. This reference to engine displacement was taken by Nissan and used in the nomenclature of their Infiniti lineup. It’s worth noting that Lexus does the same thing and it’s probably done because the primary European competitors with Infiniti and Lexus (BMW and Mercedes) have named their cars in a similar fashion since pretty much the dawn of time. Hence the rebadged Primera was called the Infiniti G20. When the G switched from being the Primera to the new Skyline in 2003 it became a whole other car with a whole other engine, specifically the VQ35DE. So the G became the G35. If the engine had been, say 70 litres, it would have been the G700 (absurd, I know, but it demonstrates the idea). Now, this same engine is also in the M and FX vehicles from Infiniti, hence the M35 and the FX35. These particular cars also happen to be available with a V8, the VK45DE, and are known as the M45 and FX45. So the name G35 just means that the car is a sports sedan/coupe with a 3.5L engine.

With the recent update of the G35/Skyline, the generation designation switched from “V35″ to “V36″ (notice how the name of the car did not change to “G36″). So, the “35″ generation came and went without any model being distinct enough to be labeled an “R35.” So, depending on the logic one (read: Nissan) chooses to use, the new GT-R could be either an R35 or an R36. On the one hand, the last GT-R was an R34, so it stands to reason that the next GT-R should be an R35. On the other hand, it was only an R34 to differentiate it from the V34. So, if it needs to be differentiated from anything now, it needs to be differentiated from the V36, which would make it an R36. That might actually be more fitting, as it would acknowledge the fact that for 6 or so years, the duration of the V35 Skyline’s life, there was no GT-R. A parallel to this (that I can think of off the top of my head) could be the Buick Grand National. They made a 1982 model, didn’t produce one in 1983, and then brought it back in 1984, but when they brought it back in 1984 they didn’t call it a 1983 model for the sake of continuity. Although there is a difference between defining a car by years and by production generations. The passage of years is obviously not dependent on the production of automobiles, but production generations of automobiles obviously are dependent on the production of automobiles.

All of this, however, might be a moot point, because it assumes that the GT-R will still be associated with the Skyline. Everything Nissan has said up to this point indicates that the GT-R is becoming its own model. It’s just the Nissan GT-R. So it might be that R35/R36 are dropped altogether in favour of something independent of the Skyline lineup.

You won’t be able to haul too much in this car but you’ll have much more room than in, say, a Corvette or an RX-7, neither or which even have a trunk.

I think Hyperion has made a good point with regard to the difference between luxury and performance. In that respect Nissan probably has the edge.

And I’m gonna re-ask my 2+2 question. Anybody know anything about that? Because if the GT-R was not a 2+2 that could be a huge incentive to move towards a Toyota FT-HS. I know it probably won’t have the same kind of performance, but if it’s considerably cheaper and I’m not sacrificing practicality it’d certainly be an attractive option. And I do think some form of that car or a similar car will see production. Toyota is going hard with the hybrids, and they desperately need a sports car. And I doubt that it’ll appear as a Lexus because by the time it hits the market they’ll have the SC, LF-A, and IS-F.

Anyone remember the 1980’s Merkur XR4Ti? To recap, it was based on the Ford Sierra from Europe which was rear wheel drive, had an independent rear suspension, came with DOHC turbo engines and offered range-topping performance RS and Cosworth versions which had a great deal of racing history.

In the USA they were changed for Lincoln-Mercury dealers with different engines and a more entry-level luxury performance appeal. Lincoln-Mercury buyers panned the car and it died within four years. Enthusiasts loved it, however.

Big lesson in marketing I think Nissan could learn from. If Infiniti gets the GT-R, most buyers with $70k to burn aren’t going to know about OR CARE ABOUT the all-out performance and heritage of the Skyline GT-R. The luxury car market has totally different expectations from their cars than the enthusiast performance market has from their cars.

Chevrolet sells a $70k Corvette. Dodge sells an $80k Viper. Ford briefly sold a $100k GT. Why can’t Nissan sell a halo $70k GT-R and sell to the intended audience with the right marketing?

The GT-R may be competing with Porsches and Porsches are about luxury as much as they are about performance… but ALL of their cars are about performance whereas Infiniti hasn’t convinced me that they care about it all that much.

Give it to Nissan.

While I agree with that, knowing or not knowing what something is worth isn’t always the issue. Say some rich guy can’t decide between this and an R8? This being badged as a Nissan will be something that might lean his desision towards the Audi–or whatever highend sports car he might be considering. Maybe only 1 out of 10 rich ppl actually care that their coworkers see them in a Nissan, even if it only brings the 1 more sale for every 100, that’s already worth it. While I like the idea of the GTR keeping it’s Nissan heritage, I don’t think it will be something to effect sales because it hardly has any heritage here in NA. And will it being badged a Infinite really deter a true enthusiast?

Dealers using it as an excuse to mark up the price would suck though. It would seem that it’s going to be a Nissan as syrax said though.

Has anyone heard if the new GT-R will still be a 2+2?

I think what amazes me so much about the whole branding/rebranding argument, with expensive items in particular, is the assumption that people with money are too stupid to know what something is worth. If that’s true then capitalism is truly some sort of anti-Darwinian engine. Or it could be that selling a particular type of image is little more than a license to print money.

More than anything, I’m just afraid that branding the car as an Infiniti will be an excuse for them to add $10000 or more to the MSRP. I’m especially concerned for the Canadian Market, because we’re already getting raped now that our dollar is only about 15 cents off the American dollar. For example, the 350Z is about $50000 ($42500 USD) here, and that’s about the same price as a G35 Coupe. As long as being an Infiniti doesn’t jack up the price, I could really care less what badge it’s wearing.

The thing is is, I don’t really understand what increasing the price accomplishes in terms of placing the car in a certain segment. I don’t think there’s any possible way they can get away with pricing this car against the other Japanese Supercars. The successor to the NSX certainly isn’t going to be any cheaper than the previous $90000 model, and considering the $65000 price on the Lexus SC 430, I don’t even want to guess what they’re going to be asking for a 200mph V10 Supercar. It’s best bet is probably to remain the only reasonably affordable Japanese Supercar and compete head-to-head-to-head with the Corvette and the M3. That being said, if money was no object for me, I have a feeling I’m going to want this car whatever the price. So I want it to be priced at a point where I don’t have to give up hope of ever owning one.

I can understand the argument that the Infiniti dealers were unhappy, but I’m not sure I accept it as true. Why would Infiniti dealers be enraged? Aren’t the vast majority of Infiniti dealers Nissan/Infiniti? And while I know that the trend as of late (at least where I live) seems to be for Infiniti/Lexus/Acura to move onto self-contained lots, I’d still be willing to bet that the people who actually own those dealerships also own a Nissan/Toyota/Honda dealership, so it might not really matter what brand gets the car.

Finally, in response to pherarey, I suspect this will be the R35, as the R3X designation is something that’s referred to the GT-R Skylines, specifically. The rest of the Skylines were referred to as V3X, and that continues to this day. The Infiniti G35 is the V35 Skyline in Japan.

Somehow, i tould you so doesn’t quite say it.

You know, Ford was able to sell the GT from its plain old ****ty Ford dealerships. Chevy sells the Vette, not Caddy. Dodge sells the Viper, not Mercedes or even Chrysler. I think whatever happens, they’ll be okay. I just cant wait for this car to come out already. I wanna test drive!!

With the GT-R going for a higher price than than the previous R34 Skyline GT-R there’s a real possibility that it will and SHOULD be sold through Infiniti dealerships in the states. Nissan heritage my ass, how many folks here with enough money for a GT-R would be willing to plop down a Corvette sized (or possibly 997 Carrera sized) chunk of change for a “cheap Nissan.” It all comes down to final pricing and where Nissan decides to position the new GT-R in the market. The NSX did fine in the US despite being sold as an Acura. Fine in the sense that it wasn’t the Acura badge that killed it, but a lack of updates and upgrades from Honda.

However at least the NSX was still being sold here up until 2004 unlike the RX-7, 300ZX, Supra, MR2 and 3KGT which were all removed from the US market during the 90s. Yes the collapse of the sports car market contributed to their departures from the US, but it didn’t help that with the FD, Z32, Mark IV and the 3KGT the Japanese tried to sell 35k-40k sports cars to Americans out of “lowly” Mazda, Nissan, Toyota and Mitsubishi dealerships. Most of you kids screaming “heritage” are probably too young or too uninformed to remember when this happened.

The fact of the matter is that if the next GT-R was a 320hp 40k-50k 2 door 4 seater like the R34 GT-R it would be much easier to justify selling it in the US as a Nissan. However with around 400-500hp on tap and a price rumored to be in the 65k-100k range it’s a much tougher sale to pitch. How the heck do you justify selling an 80k Nissan in the states when it’s more expensive than EVERY CAR in your upscale marque’s lineup? Heritage? With the departure of the Q45 from the US market Infiniti dealers could use a new flagship as well as a halo car. Nissan already has the 350Z, I say give Infiniti the GT-R. And if Nissan is still intending to take the Infiniti brand worldwide they could also use the GT-R to spearhead its entry into other markets.

Don’t get me wrong. I understand the whole heritage thing but I also understand Nissan’s worrying about whether or not Americans will plunk down the cash for a “Nissan” ubercar. The main thing for me is that the GT-R comes stateside and hits sales targets so it isn’t pulled from our market. If selling it as an Infiniti means more sales then by all means do it. If selling it as a Nissan means more sales, then do that instead. Hey if they can’t make up their minds, they could always sell it as the Infiniti GT-R by Nissan. LOL.