Toyota’s are soooo safe.
Right ignorant Toyota bangers like Dr Full of it?

“Gomez was unable to tun off the engine OR SHIFT INTO NEUTRAL.”

Sigh, so even the savvy Leftlane readers were wrong about a possible solution. If folks who love to read about cars don’t have an appropriate fix . . . what hope do the masses have? “[Toyota]!!! You got some SPLAININ’ to do!!!”

What model(s) are we talking about that have this “power” switch? I’m assuming they’re talking about push-button ignition.

Aaah, the machines have already started to take over!!!!!!!!!

Johnnycanuck – I believe you are correct, the power switch is the push button ignition. Toyota seems to have it on a few different vehicles. I think I would prefer a regular key in all honesty though.

Well the Prius technically uses a power switch.

A4 – considering what type of vehicle the Prius is, that would make sense. Not that I would ever own a Prius or hybrid at this point in time.

A friend of mine was test driving a ‘94 Mustang a few years back.

The gas pedal got hung up on the floor mat. The engine raced to a higher and higher speed!

What ever did he do to fix the problem on this menacing death machine*?!

He turned the ignition key to the “OFF” position. The car was instantly neutralized and no longer a threat to anyone – my buddy subsequently returned the car to the dealership and didn’t buy it.

I was driving a 1984 Ford F250 that had a gunked-up throttle cable. I was driving down the freeway after buying the truck when suddenly the gas pedal stuck (thanks to years of grime and grease) and the engine charged ahead! What did I do?

a.) Shifted to neutral, and when that failed to resolve the problem,

b.) Shut off the engine and coasted to a stop at the side of the road. I loosened up the throttle cable and proceeded to drive first to my classes, then I drove home.

The point?

Sometimes computer control is not a good thing to use to supplant a manual system.

*The Ford Mustang is not a menacing death machine – unless the throttle is stuck wide open and you’re in heavy traffic.

well… using a manual gearbox like most europeans, would have likely avoided this problem… you brake and you stop. If you have no brake, you use the engine brake, which means you engage a lower gear, a method usualy used in the winter… but you americans don’t know about all these…

Titus – I understand what you are talking about as I do downshift even in an automatic during the winter months up in Canada to slow down, but down shifting while accelerator is stuck or computer is saying to accelerate may give you major torque steer on a front wheel drive car and put you in an even more dangerous situation than if you just shut the car off.

Titus, let’s not pull that blanket over your head too tight. Engine braking isn’t just reserved for European drivers. Yeah you’re right about more manuals per capita than over here but it’s not exactly like the stick is on the endangered species list… yet.

Toyota, oh what a feeling. A feeling of fear.

lol Titus, ignorant much? especially with all that European sophistication you obviously have

like ajm11 said, when driving my truck in the winter (which has no abs or traction control, is rwd) i constantly have to pop down into the 3 OD gears, driving around town i pretty much cant go 2minutes without having to.. though i dont use them for slowing down as much as i do just to pull away from a stop sign or go up a hill, etc, sometimes even need it just to get up my driveway

This case just got a WHOLE lot more interesting!!

Downshifting on an engine that is at full throttle? NICE! If it’s a manual, just press the clutch, slide it into neutral, and let the clutch out. Then you have time to figure out how to shut it off. Not all Americans have never heard of “stick shift”. If you ask me, that was a pretty ignorant statement, Titus.

However, in the particular case that was cited, I find it interesting that the guy could NOT shift into neutral. All autos have neutral, too, and you don’t need to put your foot on the brake to shift most autos into neutral. Why couldn’t Gomez do it? That’s pretty scary, right there.

I’m not scared of driving a Toyota, because I don’t drive one at the time. However, I am scared of someone else having this problem and accidentally hurting my family. This is truly a problem that I am concerned about.

I’m not really a big fan of Toyota but why do you all hate them? They are the number one selling brand along with Lexus and create the most reliable products. Sure they’re not the most fun cars to drive, but not everybody in the real world is a gear-head looking for extreme horsepower and performance capabilities. 90% of people want a practical, fuel efficient, and reliable car that doesn’t cost a lot either. Same goes with Lexus, they seem to be the only auto company nowadays that focuses on a comfortable and great ride quality and luxury. Isn’t that what a luxury car is supposed to be? If I wanted a sports car I’d get a damn sports car, if I wanted a luxury car then I’d choose something luxurious, not a mediocre riding Formula 1 luxury car. So if your standard brand and luxury brand are BOTH the number one selling automobiles in America AND the world, you are definitely doing something right.

Tyler, I only saw one Toyota basher. Everyone else is just calling them out on a serious problem. Whether you like Toyota or not, sudden, uncontrollable acceleration is a serious problem.

I don’t understand why you can’t shift a car into neutral. There isn’t anything that would prevent it except panic.

resurgence in keyed-ignition incoming?

Kaizen… especially if your shifter is on the centre console. Slap the damn thing into neutral… I don’t think under the circumstances anyone would or should really care about grenading the engine. Just get it out of gear.

bad toyota..bad

is there an rpm lockout on shifting into neutral? i’m having a hard time believing that the off-duty cop who was driving in the latest crash didn’t try to shift into neutral…something just doesn’t smell right about that…

You may be right leftwing. In my Sebring if you’re in neutral you can’t rev the engine past about 3,000 rpm… so maybe it works the other way as well. Problem is who’s willing to test that theory.

LWA, I’m thinking there is, maybe to prevent damaging the engine in case someone punches it and “accidentally” shifts into neutral while shifting the automatic.

I’ll test it.

*Grabs his helmet and fire suit*

Should we start calling you “Super Dave”?

There is a lot more to this problem. I had an ‘07 Lexus IS350 that would just randomly accelerate (happened maybe 12-15 times over 20,000 miles, no distinct pattern that caused it). I brought it in 5-6 times to the dealership to have them determine what was wrong. They would only drive it around the block, say that they couldn’t replicate it, and send me on my way. I offered to swap cars for another ‘07, even a lesser optioned one, but they wouldn’t do it. Long story short, I had to file a lemon law complaint and Toyota/Lexus was forced to repurchase the car.

But that’s not the worst part – when I met their representative at the dealership to return the car, they tried forcing me to sign a waiver of all claims, including a clause that basically said there was not a mechanical issue with the car in the first place and that Toyota/Lexus was essentially repurchasing the car out of the goodness of their heart. As an attorney, I immediately crossed out all nonsensical clauses (pretty much the heart of the waiver – the lemon law ruling against Toyota/Lexus wasn’t contingent on me signing a waiver after all), but I can’t imagine how many people have signed off on the waiver which would release Toyota/Lexus from any reporting obligation. It’s sad that Toyota/Lexus is playing such games with the lives of their customers.

This is a major safety hazard that Toyota/Lexus has on their hands, and they are taking every step to sweep it under the rug. It’s just a shame more people will be seriously hurt and possibly die before Toyota/Lexus gets their act together.

And just for background, the problem had nothing to do with the floor mats (which I had actually removed after first hearing that BS excuse – the problem kept recurring). And while I’m sure a floor mat or two has slid forward, Toyota seems to be jumping on this floor mat excuse as the easy way out in order to avoid addressing the actual cause.

This is the result of increasingly complex systems. As these systems and computers get more and more powerful (and the code gets more complicated) it becomes impossible to test for the myriad failure modes. This is becoming a major concern in systems such as aircraft and public transit, where failures can kill many people.

What is disturbing here is that they’re taking the human out, as far as any over-ride capability goes. I drive a stick, so a stuck throttle (or electrical problem, since my Civic is a drive by wire throttle) is no big thing. Step down on the clutch, and I’m out of gear.

I also refuse to Monday morning quarterback on anyone in these situations. They have never trained for it, haven’t thought about what to do, and probably get focused on avoiding accidents to think about effective ways to slow down the car. When I was in flight school, the first few months was nothing but training for engine failures (single engine helicopter, kind of need the engine to stay in the air). We trained until it became almost a reflex action. Fortunately, I never had to use it, but the point is, civilian drivers just don’t train for these things.

For some reading on software and systems failures, checkout:
http://books.google.com/books?id=tNL7YhIxohcC&lpg=PA18&ots=eReqPv8shp&dq=codes%20gone%20awry%20aviation%20week&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q=codes%20gone%20awry%20aviation%20week&f=false

So let me get this straight, under full throttle your brakes are useless and you can’t shift into neutral? I’m surprised and thankful that there haven’t been more problems with this system. 3.8 MILLION is a lot of cars and families at risk, not to mention the lives of EVERYONE else on the road all around the world.

Look for a Panic/Emergency Shutdown Buttons to become standard equipment in Toyota’s in the near future.

You’re close Blakkarr… look for them to become standard on ALL vehicles in the near future.

At this rate, they’ll install drag chutes, anchors, tailhooks, and ejection seats, standard.

Better yet, make it an ejection capsule, so those 100 mph ejections don’t hurt as bad. Ultimately, Toyota will be the first company to pioneer the LiFoam system, which is guaranteed to turn the car into a canole.

my cars usually have a “manual emergency engine disengagement and unintended acceleration prevention system”…a clutch pedal!

interesting story, btw, joshddt…i wouldn’t be surprised if something else were going on, and the zip tie recall thing was just a cover up…the blaming of the floor mat and the recall happened very quickly, almost too quickly, after the last incident…but that’s me with my conspiracy theory tinfoil hat on…

leftwing… I think the fairer sex call that a diaphragm.

When my 21.000 mile Sienna van locked its engine up on the freeway because of lack of oil to the bottom end, I though Toyota would warrenty the situation. I had the oil changed every 3000 miles at the Toyota dealer and I never missed a service interval. First the dealer service manager called me and told me it was abuse.I had explained that they were the only ones that changed the oil . That didn’t matter. They told me it was MY FAULT. Then when I called for a meeting with a rep from Toyota, the dealer manager, and my attorney, I finally got an engine. They were like bullys. I had bought 3 new Toyota’s that year, and I sold 3 used Toyota’s that year….oh what a feeling?? They since then have extended the warrenty on these engines because of an engineering flaw with the oiling/cooling jacket causing oil coking and sudden engine failure. It was my last ordeal with Toyota and it appears they have not gotten any better. At least Ford took responsibility for the Firestone tire situation. Porsche gave me a new engine when it developed an oil leak…a leak at a seal. I asked for a new engine, and they installed one…no problem. They also sent me a Macy’s gift certificate which I didn’t ask for. Bottom line is, Toyota needs to spend tons of money, right now, keeping its customers happy, or they will never be back. Never. They need a check up from the neck up.

That is what I have been taliknig about.

Toyota has a much nore serious problem than floor mats. Even Toyota is starting to have to admit the problem. Just look back to the previous floor mat thread to get more info. No need to repeat it all here.

But, Toyota has a problem, likely with its drive by wire system going to WOT inappropriately in rare circumstances that the drivers can not easily override.

The truth will come out eventually.

And, I don’t think Toyota’s “sudden acceleration” caused by floor mats.

Actually, I guess,, It casued by faulty engine and faulty transmisson.

jdasch1 and joshddt, clearly everyone that works at Toyota dealerships is related to people like Dr Fill and all the other people that think Toyota can do no wrong. Thank you for those stories.

I’ve heard of the dealer bullying around here too. Most people I know that own a Toyota didn’t buy it at the dealership in our city. They drive for an hour or so and go to the one just across the border in another province.

They’d rather deal with the hassle of licensing it in another province and driving that far for warranty service than have to deal with the idiots at the local dealer.

Aww, drfilledwithcrap cannot handle reality when it comes to lexus and toyoda. Has anyone noticed the commercials for toyota lately. They are focusing on quality and safety. I wonder why they have to spend millions in spinning the toyoda brand? because they know that toyoda sucks ass when it comes to safety, and quality. i would not let my dog drive in a toyoda or buick lexus.

@jdasch1
You talking about that oil sludge issue a bunch of people ended up suing Toyota in a class action lawsuit over? The wife of a guy I used to work with had the same issue, her engine failed due to engine oil sludge and when she brought it in to Toyota they gave her the same exact crap they gave you. Virtually called her a liar and told her she didn’t maintain the vehicle properly… Gotta love Toyota…

Bottom line for me is, I’ve learned not to trust Toyota when it comes to major issues like this “sudden acceleration” problem, or engines sludging up, or pretty much anything that might tarnish their precious reputation for reliability. I was suspicious from the start that this was more than simply floor mats, and it’s looking more and more like us conspiracy theorists aren’t so crazy…

Toyota is number one like MickeyDs, Walmart and Microsoft. Once they stay at top for long enough they will be hated just like those 3 brands, success breeds contempt. Also, no aspires for MickeyDs or uses Microsoft or shops at Walmart because they want to or its the best choice. They do it because its safe, convenient and they are lazy.

If all else fails, pull the handbrake hard and whip the car around. That’ll stall the engine.

this is a very sad incident that occured. i don’t and no one will ever know except those whom were in the vehicle that perrished that afternoon what actually happened. but, being in the car bizz. and previously working for lexus over 7 year, the brakes will ALWAYS over power the accelerator,especially in a front wheel drive automobile like the es350.

You know whats really sad? Ford took responsibility for the firestone situation when it was neither their nor firestones fault. It was the people who worked on the non-standard stock tires on the vehicles. And yet they owned up and took care of it, and yet another company is unwilling to even address a situation which falls entirely onto their plate, instead blaming floormats?

I was driving a 1991 Explorer when the acclerator became stuck. I did not know why it was stuck, so I applied the brakes to slow the car down. After a few seconds, I figured that the floor mat was keeping the accelerator pinned. You’ll never guess what I did next….

I reached down and pulled the floor mat away.

First time post, and after reading the comments it seems like Ford was the one with the floor mat problem I had the same thing happen to me in a 91 Thunderbird the pedal got stuck under the floor mat (only because I was standing on it) But I was able to quickly react and shift it into neutral and then reach down and free it. I was only 16 at the time so if and unexperienced driver can react quick enough to difuse the problem I would imagine an experienced Police Officer (who has had extensive training in driving) would have been able to react in time to save himself and others from any harm. Lets be honest Toyota, floormats? come on whens the last time the accelerator was even close enough to the floor for it to get stuck unless you were standing on it and last I checked floor mats don’t jump up and grab the pedals. There is definitely something fishy about all this especially after hearing some of the horror stories about them trying to sweep it under the rug. Anyone recall “Fight Club” where Edward Norton worked for the Auto Manufacturer and went out to investigate the crashes and they would determine if it was more cost effective to pay out the lawsuits than it was to do a recall? Sounds like some truth to that story.

ha ha ha

faulty engine & tranny?
semms lilke a typical toyo problem!

hi hamburglar…1) don’t steal my burgers…2) you bet the scenario in fight club is true, that’s what insurance policies are based on: exposure to risk and payout expense…there are all kinds of grizzly calculations that go on like that…similar to the choices a General must face when sending troops into a war zone…it’s all cost/benefit ratio stuff, but with human lives in the equation…

For those of you who think Toyotas are boring: imagine doing 130mph in rush hour traffic. That’ll get your blood pressure going!

It’s scary to think that we blindly strap ourselves into these 2 ton projectiles every day with no regard to the terrors that lye beneath the sheet metal. We put way to much faith in the bean counters of the auto industry!

LMAO, NickelDime! Too bad Pontiac already had the slogan: “We Build Excitement!”

Amazing that nobody thought to put the car in NEUTRAL. Even if it is a problem with the engine control, disengaging the transmission will allow the vehicle to be safely braked to a stop. It really is that simple folks.

Not so, Raineman. This is from the article:

“Gomez was unable to turn off the engine OR SHIFT INTO NEUTRAL and then burned out his brakes before slamming into another car and killing that driver.”

Maybe they couldn’t, because maybe it just doesn’t work on these models. Who knows?

Well done Toy Ota, you have truly outdone yourself this time. I thought the “rusting everywhere” issue was the baddest of them all, but this one takes the cake. I hope they sue your stinking ass into bankruptcy for taking so many innocent lives. F*cking jap death traps!

This is my educated engineering guess but I doubt it was floor mats that caused this crash. Probably a glitch in the engine control modual that caused the car to accelerate. The gear shift probably locks after a certain rpm is reached to prevent engine damage in case the car is accidentally knocked in to neutral. Since the car was push button start the poor guy didn’t know he had to hold the start button in for 3 seconds (which is far to long)to kill the engine,nor did anyone else for that matter. Why Toyota and its dealers don’t make people aware of this when they sell,lease or loan one of these vehicles to a customer escapes me. For the average person raised on the key switch, a company or dealer shouldn’t assume they will get into one of these cars and know what to do in an emergency situation.

Wow. If this is true, Toyota is in a world of trouble. Remember Audi’s unintended acceleration problems back in the late 70s/early 80s? It almost killed their company. It probably would have actually killed it if any of the claims could have been substantiated. This is big.

I think the only car that you ‘Couldn’t’ shift into neutral may be the Prius, it has a really strange gear shift that always returns to the same position after a gear is selected. So it’s possible it doesn’t have a “neutral”. I’ve been inside a friend’s Prius and the gear shift was the strangest thing about the car. Also I’ve been told by a very large rental car company that ‘People hate renting the Prius’ I’m guessing it’s because the car is just too non-standard. It seems like the only car that could have all these problems at once would have to be the Prius or maybe the Camry Hybrid. In any case this would be VERY scary, sounds to me like it needs a kill switch. Maybe the key-less ignitions like Suzuki uses are a better idea, they are essentially a keyed type mechanism that the driver twists to start the car. There isn’t any place for the key, but in an emergency most people would reach for the key and twist it off…. problem solved! (so long as the steering wheel doesn’t lock…!!)

I have a 2005 Prius. Because I am paranoid of having this problem, I practiced putting the car in neutral while it was in motion. Like the Power button, you have to hold it in the Neutral position for a few seconds before it actually shifts into neutral — you can’t just click it to neutral with the lever and let go. Anyone in a state of panic would probably not be able to figure that out.

Dear Toyota/Lexus Owner,

While Toyota Motor Corp. is struggling through its growing pains, the Decelerator is currently your best defense against “Sudden Unintentional Acceleration”. It will protect you, your family and the general public. The Decelerator comes with full instructions and is easily installed by your local auto repair shop in less than an hour.

Website: http://thedecelerator.com

Best regards and happy holidays from the Decelerator family to yours,

Donald Cook
Founder/President, the Decelerator