Expensive mini-van. Good luck trying to sell those Toyota! They almost forgot that it has a lock-throttle feature that works when the vehicle is traveling at 85mph…….

I had a 2009 Sienna as a loaner a few weeks back. I hate to admit it but I was actually impressed with the power and handling.

Best minivan on the market. Even the $39k price for the Limited AWD is worth it. I’d buy it without hesitation

nice looking van. better than anything the domestics put out.

DenverGuy217; Your purchase is not enough to justify paying 40 grand for a minivan!

If you want the basics of a Lexus RX, but in minivan form, the Limited AWD makes perfect sense, and you save some $$. So it makes sense for many people CarR. Or buy a 2-year old model and save $10k+ in depreciation

It looks like a Venza before it went to fat camp.

DenverGuy…You kidding??? A few months ago when people were screaming about loaded Ford Flexes being over $40,000. At least those had AWD and an Ecoboost. What about this van gives it more credibility right now over something like a Flex? At least a Flex isn’t built from a Camry…yikes.

BTW, Flex with the base 3.5 is 17city/24 highway and 265hp. This Camry with the 2.7 4 cyl is 1 mpg better??

This Odyssey looking Sienna is priced right. If you look at Ford Taurus that cost 37K and has the same footprint (same size) the differences are huge. This is comfortable and has a great resale value (ok you have to toss in a set of proper floor mats) and actually has advantage over original (Odyssey) by providing AWD.

WTF?? You would have to be a complete IDIOT to pay 40 grand for a minivan…or be related to DrFill!!!

Once again, the best choice in a shrinking market. I rented one last week in LA (With 32,000 rental miles on it) and for a van, drove very nicely.

Can of whuppass
Now in XXXXL!!
DrFill

CarResearcher,
if Denver lives in Denver, then he kind of needs an AWD if he’s going to go skiing, biking, hiking etc…
cars get more expensive when you live in the mountains, you can’t just buy any old base fwd camry, my mom used to have an Acura legend that would get stuck every time we got more than 5 inches of snow, now she has an MDX.

reedfast; There are other vehicles to consider for that purpose than a minivan. Minivans are a dying breed and less and less people are buying them. 40 grand minivans are a bad investment in terms of demand and resale and you will not get any value for your money in comparison to crossovers and SUV’s. Minivan demand will become extinct in the US market just like the station wagon did. Wait and see!

CR
Sorry
But Subaru sells plenty of Outbacks
Only the strong survive

10 years from now
There will only be 3-4 minivans
But they will all sell 100k plus

Can the elderly get into an SUV easily?
How many CUVs allow 8 pass seating, with room for cargo
For under $30k?
Not many

And Sienna offers AWD
Sienna isn’t going anywhere
Especially if it drives more like a big car
DrFill

Toyota designer 1: “There’s an awkward shape between the fenders and liftgate. What should we do?”
Toyota designer 2: “Oh, I don’t know. Let’s just slap some chunks of red taillight plastic there!”
Senior Toyota designer: “Perfect! Build it!”

Uh, the sport model looks like an ugly oversized Matrix.

40k is a lot, but most compact cars are now around 16k and go as high as 23k.

You can plate it in gold, sell it for msrp in 10 years, have 20 passenger seating, and Bo Derek nude as a co-pilot on every solo voyage to the market for that gallon of milk- but it still does NOT have stow ‘n go seating. For anyone who hasn’t ever used stow ‘n go, you just don’t know how valuable it is. I’ve owned two Dodge Grand Caravans and they have both been totally trouble free and rode like air while providing great power and smooth transmissions while getting over 30 mpg on the highway. The talk of Honda Odyssey/Toyota Sienna being class leaders is a myth. Parts for Chrylser minivans are cheap and are easy to work on. Yes, the others may hold their value better, but I bought my $31K GC for $21K- try getting ANYTHING off msrp on the Jap models. Plus, the Dodge and Chryslers will not take off on their own and kill your entire family. Also, Dodge and Chryslers have had the side door track hidden for years. The ‘08 and up Chrysler and Dodge vans are the best vans for the money on the market by far. The 6-speed tranny provides truly electric-like power and they are as quiet as any quality luxury car. Chrysler may be in financial trouble but their vans are benchmarks that others set their sights on when designing a minivan. Ever drive a GC or T&C with the new 6-spd and 4.0 engine? You’ll think you were in a performance sedan. Buy American! Stop supporting the japs and their discriminatory trading practices. It only hurts America.

“…Plus, the Dodge and Chryslers will not take off on their own and kill your entire family.” -botafusion.
Ha hha ha ha!

I’m sorry, you couldn’t pay me enough to drive a caravan, let alone buy one!

Hey DrFill! Will this REQUIRE premium 91 or better fuel?

botafusion – While you may have never had an issue with your Dodge/Chrysler products, you should know that you’re the exception, not the majority. Chrysler’s quality has steadily declined for the last 30 years. They certainly have done a great job of telling consumers what they want, and not listening to what they’re really saying. And as far as the “benchmark” for class? Please. Chrysler’s only benchmarks are inept leadership, corporate greed, asset mismanagement, and consumer ignorance. How can you spew “Buy American!” when the majority of these things are built in Ontario? Maybe you should have said “Buy North American!” The third generation Sienna is a fusion of Japanese efficiency and American ingenuity. Where was it designed? Calty in California. Engineered? Ann Arbor, Michigan. But where is it built? Princeton, Indiana. Last time I looked at a map, all these places were in the US of A. Now, you can try to bring up the whole, “Yeah, but the money goes back to Japan!” argument. And, yes, I’m sure a good share of the profits will go there. But what does America see from “Chrysler profits” (which itself is an oxymoron), other than corrupted CEO’s looking for a handout? Where the rubber meets the road, botafusion, is jobs for Americans. In my opinion, and this is MY OPINION, Toyota is better for the US economy than Chrysler. By the way, who owns Chrysler now anyway? I can’t keep track.
I’m not saying that Toyota is perfect, or even close to it (sticky gas pedal, uninspired designs). All I’m saying is that this so called “American” car company needs to take a look at what’s working. Toyota’s working. Honda’s working. And yes, Ford’s working too.

^^Cool paragraph! 2 thumbs way up there!

DrFill; Sorry, but according to the EPA the Outback is considered and SUV, but still MANY crossovers out sell the Outback. I am in the auto business and research is what I do…SO I KNOW WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT.

What’s interesting, CarResearcher, is that the Saab 900T back in the 80’s and 90’s was classified as a Sport Utility Vehicle. I always thought it LOOKED like a funky hatchback! I think they’re saying the Outback is an SUV b/c they’ve just rolled out a new model. Prior to that, it was a wagon.
Labels are just labels. I’m more concerned with the 1) utility, 2) function vs. efficiency, and 3) looks. The Outback LOOKS like a wagon. I mean, c’mon. What the heck is a CUV other than a hatchback sedan that sits higher? Might as well call the Mazda 3 a CUV/SUV/5-door hatch/wagon!
People bought the Outback in droves when it was called a “wagon”. They’ll still buy it while it’s called an “SUV”, and when wagons catch on again (read: when Honda brings over the Euro Accord wagon as a TSX), it will STILL buy it!

Wagons are niche merchandise that only few will buy…..PERIOD!

colblooded- you’re naive to modern day Chrysler vans. if they’re so problematic, let’s see the proof. Take it for what it is, but the ‘09 GC won JDPowers award for quality. And if you do not think other companies have a GC sitting right beside their designs, you’re even more naive than you sound. If the new Sienna is “a fusion of Japanese efficiency and American ingenuity”, why can’t they come up with something to compete with stow ‘n go- a technology that came out in late 2004? Look at the new offering- woohoo, you can collapse the seat forward or maybe you can even release it and carry it out to sit on your garage floor. Whoa, that’s technical ain’t it? I think you could do that on 1996 Grand Caravans. If you want to support a company from a country that attacked us at Pearl Harbor killing numerous soldiers just like Al Qaeda did to innocent Americans on 9-11, go ahead. But my money will go to an American company, no matter where the van is built. I’d rather have Canadiens who take pride in their work, where the profits come right back to the US, build my van than hillbillies who work for a jap company just to go out and buy their Pabst Blue Ribbon to drink with their sister. Why do you think their are so many recalls at Toyota? You probably would buy a $40G Sienna wouldn’t you? For close to half that, you can have a brand new GC with top rated safety scores, a lifetime powertrain warranty with no deductible on ’09s and a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty on ’10s. To me, it’s a no brainer.

you might think it’s a no brainer, but if I had to bet my life on which car would last longer, a new sienna vs. a caravan, I would definitely bet on the sienna! I’ll be nice and leave your caravan keys with you in your coffin!

I agree with the stow and go comment available on Chrysler / Dodge minivans.
I rehab homes and my pick up stays in the garage while I use the minivan ( seats stored in floor) to haul anything I want to – refrigs, plywood,etc…. I have 72 K miles on an 08 and it’s only been to dealer for oil changes. I’m a happy Grand Caravan owner and I only paid $24K. I also get 24.5 MPG on the x-way.

I’ve seen several older GC and Chrysler vans over the 300K mile mark. I’d be willing to bet the same year of Sienna’s are no longer running due to the sludge buildup issue on the V6 that Toyota blames on unwary and naive customers who bought into the whole Toyota myth like you do evidently. No matter how long it lasts, like I said- the GC comes with a lifetime powertrain on my ‘09 and 100K miles powertrain on the ’10s. What does Toyota offer since you and them both are so sure about their longevity and reliability? The only person lying in a coffin would be the owners of Toyota vehicles who had their Toyotas uncontrollably take off on them careening them over cliffs and into concrete abuttments. Sad, really sad that this fixation on Toyota quality has come to innocent people being dismembered and burned in accidents caused by a careless auto company who cares about nothing more than having the title of “worlds largest automaker”. Come on, take off the blinders peeps. Facts are facts- THE MOST RECALLS in recent years belong to Toyota.

Unlike you, I want a car to sell itself, not the warranty! I want a car that doesn’t need a warranty for it to be called, “RELIABLE!” You even state it yourself that it has a longer warranty, that’s their main selling point, because the toyota sienna being named one of the top 5 most reliable minivans(by CNN MONEY/Consumer Reports) isn’t a mishap(the cv isn’t on that list by the way:D). You can claim victory to your argument that their warranty is better, but you are the one who will be needing it more! Since you think you know facts, show me 5 articles that state the CV is reliable, *AND* show me 5 articles that say it isn’t reliable! Good luck with that, you will get more results when searching for the chrysler’s problems! Since you like to post novels as comment, this shouldn’t be much of a chore for you! Here’s a hint/tip, I did just that before writing this, guess what, there are hardly ANY reputable sources that claim the cv is reliable, but there are PLENTY who caution new buyers with,
“-Marginal safety in a rear-end crash
-Reliability problems
-Resale value trails competitors
-Cheap-seeming interior”

So, do yourself a huge favor! Like your car, but don’t talk sh!t about how “reliable” and good it is!
Word of mouth means ABSOLUTELY nothing!

I would also like to note, I’ve sat on rocks that were more comfortable than the seats on the T&C!!

botafusion; You spelled Canadian wrong and I’m sure the Japanese do not like to be called “japs”. It shows that you are struggling with this arguement…LOL! The fact is the minivan market is deteriorating year after year and the breed is dying slowly. Those are the facts if you like it or not.

botafusion – I find it both funny and sad that you site Pearl Harbor as a valid piece to your argument. If I’m not mistaken, didn’t Chrysler, up until recently, belong to the Daimler group, a German corporation? Didn’t the Germans have a part in WWII? But that’s irrelevant. These companies are NOT their host governments. By that argument, you should HATE American car companies solely due to the fact that America was once a group of colonies from Great Britain, and they killed Americans too! It’s silly, hypocritical, and “naive”.
Another interesting point you brought up was the quality of Canadian workmanship over American. But, I thought you said “Buy American!”…Why?
Yes, other car manufacturers probably have a Chrysler van at their design studios. And rightfully so; they’d be stupid not to!! Chrysler was the FIRST to offer the platform in modern form. The Dodge Caravan was Iaccoca’s gift to big families! But now, they probably have one of EVERY COMPETITOR available! That’s called “good business” and “strategic planning”. Toyota’s planning and strategy is sound. During this last revamp, they surveyed Chrysler owners about their vans. They found that people only use the stow-n-go feature about 5% of the time. So why should they invest in a feature that the MAJORITY (read: not you) of van owners don’t use? I’d rather they invest in other designs that people will actually use, like reclining captain’s chairs in the 2nd row.
I’d like for you to read the fine print on your so-called “Lifetime Warranty”. The stipulations are ENDLESS and ridiculous. And, I’ve seen this “warranty” in action when a friend had to hire a lawyer due to Chrysler’s lack of ANY ethics or integrity. Don’t worry, my pal won and WILL NEVER buy a Chrysler again.
I could tell you about my Toyotas (3), my dad’s history with his Toyotas(5), and virtually all my family members that have, or still own, a Toyota. Maybe it’s a coincidence that the only thing that’s happened to my 550k miles driven in Toyotas (w/ proper maintenance and wear ‘n tear replacements) was a burnt out brake light. Or my dad’s only issue was after driving his truck 350k as a construction worker was a blown head gasket. Or that the only other issue of note was a leaky trunk seal on an ‘86 Camry (in 1998, mind you!). But those are just coincidences. Maybe it’s just about how you take care of a car. But, did I mention that my grandfather bought the Camry after owning a Chrysler for only 7 MONTHS? Yeah, the door panels in the rear falling off and Chrysler not wanting to fix it, the oil leaked/burned about a quart every two weeks. He didn’t care any less for this car, so what gives?
But, like you said. I’m the “naive” one. I’m not the one buying a load of dung being spewed by ruthless/corrupt CEO’s and politicians who are getting “lobbied” to scare the US consumer about spending money on “foreign” companies’ products. By the way, how does money spent on Canadian union members make its way back to the US?

CarResearcher – I agree. Wagons are a niche product. But there is an avid following. VW, who is now running for “World’s Largest Auto Manufacturer” is doing quite well. I think all the companies realize this, and produce limited numbers to “appease” the minority. IMO, the Outback is still a wagon. If it looks like a wagon, drives like a wagon, and hauls cargo like a wagon, it’s gotta be a duck! And, as far as the minivan market deteriorating, you’re probably right! The consumer is migrating to CUVs, smaller SUVs, and other people-movers. But I think the car companies should still try to produce something that may bring people back to it. Ultimately, it’s OUR CHOICE as the consumer to buy or not buy a product. We shouldn’t “armchair CEO” their company; we should speak with our wallets. And, from what you’ve said, that’s what is happening.

LOL, it’s hilarious when Toyota fanboys grasp at straws to make a case for their side of the argument while not mentioning my main debate points. None of you fanboys have even mentioned:
1- the numerous recalls Toyotas have had in the last few years
2- the sludge issues that the Toyota engines have
3- the fact that Toyotas are dangerous and will (documented and proven) take off on their own and kill occupants
4- the fact that stow ‘n go has not been equaled and how that is downright hilarious
5- your rationalization for buying jap vehicles and supporting a jap company while living in the USA
6- how you make Toyota’s subpar warranties somehow sound better than Chrysler’s lifetime and 100K no deductible warranties
7- the fact that Chrysler minivans are the safest vans in the segment
8- did I mention that you still have to lift out the second row seats on the Sienna- EVEN ON THE NEW ONE
9- Dodge has the most powerful minivan engine in the class and only 6-speed tranny
10- no mention of how the GC is the most fuel efficent van in its class while at the same time providing the most horsepower/torque.
Oh yeah, GC captains chairs both recline and slide back/forth
Appears your blinders are permanently attached eh fanboys? lol

carresearcher- ‘Canadien’ is how the French pronounce it.

botafusion,
I will stop you before speaking sh!t again. Your numbered points are so f-ing wrong that it’s hilarious!
I could care less about stow-n-bullsh!t, I would much rather have seats that don’t feel like your are sitting on a wooden board!
As far as, “Chrysler minivans are the safest vans in the segment,” you must have pulled that out your ass because I can smell the sh!t from here! Go screw your dodge, no one cares!

Indrino
The press release, nor Toyota, say anything about requiring premium
Most Toyota engines recommend premium, but require regular

CR
If you can’t tell a station wagon from an SUV, you’re beyond my help
If you need the EPA to tell you which is which………….
DrFill

The GC gets the highest rating at iihs.org- Good in frontal offset and side-impact. And only has a Marginal for rear. Notice Toyota’s placement. lol

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/summary.aspx?class=80

Some other reading material for your enjoyment:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/template.MAXIMIZE/menuitem.f2217bee37fb302f6d7c121046108a0c/?javax.portlet.tpst=1e51531b2220b0f8ea14201046108a0c_ws_MX&javax.portlet.prp_1e51531b2220b0f8ea14201046108a0c_viewID=detail_view&itemID=38d803e5fa0c4210VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD&pressReleaseYearSelect=2009

And finally, their 5-star safety ratings all around the vehicle structure. But, like you say- these vans aren’t safe, eh?
You’re the one spewing sh!t my man. It’s the Toyota that is the one not safe in a crash or an uncontrolled acceleration with a full load of people who will soon die, not the Chrysler or Dodge. Hey, nice tries though for a fanboy. lmao

http://www.safercar.gov/portal/site/safercar/menuitem.db847bd57e3dc1f885dfc38c35a67789/?vgnextoid=c95df2905bf54110VgnVCM1000002fd17898RCRD&vgnextrefresh=1&ID=7625

Really? Numbered lists? Okay. One more time for the slow kids:

1. Since we’re dealing with minivans, I’ll use minivans as the “control”. The Sienna has had 1, that’s ONE, recall for model years 2004-9. A label listed tire info wrong. The 2007 Dodge Caravan ALONE has three different recalls, all involving visibility and “potential vehicle crash”. I could probably keep searching, but I’m pretty sure I’ll find more of the same!
2. Oil sludge. Yes, Toyota is on that list. But guess what? So are 1998-2002 Chrysler products and a handful of other manufacturers. Didn’t know your precious was on there, did ya?
3. Toyota is responsible for 4 deaths due to the speed control issue. I couldn’t find an accurate list of injuries or other damages. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to defend them on this. Their engineers should have paid more attention to this issue (and will from here on out by ALL manufacturers).
4. Again, I addressed the “Stow-n-Go” seating thing. “During this last revamp, they surveyed Chrysler owners about their vans. They found that people only use the stow-n-go feature about 5% of the time. So why should they invest in a feature that the MAJORITY (read: not you) of van owners don’t use? I’d rather they invest in other designs that people will actually use, like reclining captain’s chairs in the 2nd row.”
5. Don’t even try to lecture me on what it means to be living in the USA. I served my country as a non-commissioned officer for the US Army for the better part of a decade (96-05). I’ve served during several wars and countless engagements. I put my life on the line from 9/11 until I was honorably discharged. I know the value of this country, and those who live here. Your bigotry, ignorance, and xenophobia are apparent by your lack of class, rudeness, and general douchebaggery. It’s individuals like you that give this great nation the reputation it has worldwide! My preference for Honda and Toyota have NOTHING TO DO with patriotism, nor should they. I stated before, Toyota is doing more for the American economy than Chrysler’s dim-witted leadership who only know how to plan obsolescence and steal American taxpayer money!
6. Again, I addressed the warranty issue previously. The stipulations for the warranty to remain in effect are laughable and ridiculous! All services must be performed by Chrysler or an authorized agent. Multiple “drive-train checkups” at weird intervals. Non-transferable. I do my own maintenance. Can’t happen with a Chrysler! As stated before, READ THE FINE PRINT! Besides, this “lifetime warranty” doesn’t even exist anymore.
7. The IIHS rates the Honda Odyssey as the best, followed by the Kia, then Chrysler. Honda is a Japanese manufacturer, for those scoring at home. The Toyota is 5 on the list. The rear protection is lacking, but that’s on the outgoing model. The new 2011 hasn’t been rated. But if your list stops at #3, then kudos! NHTSA has about the same list, only has the Sienna and Caravan tied. Edmunds.com has their own list, and the T&C didn’t do so hot.
8. Yes, you did. This is similar to your list item #4. But, struggling to make a list of ten things got the better of you.
9. Wrong. The new Sienna has a 6-speed auto. Up until now, though, they had the only one.
10. False. The Honda has both a more powerful engine (244 hp vs 231 hp) AND a higher MPG (25 vs 23). A simple comparison search would have helped you save face here.
Good for the GC, sliding captain’s chairs. But do they recline like a laz-e-boy? Didn’t think so.
My blinders may be permanently attached, botafusion, but at least they’re focusing me on the truth: Chrysler just got pwned.

DrFill,
I was just wondering because we drove a 2010 toyota 4runner and it said that it required premium, 91 or higher, grade fuel. It wasn’t even that special of an engine(standard v6). I also know that toyota had some issue with requiring premium fuel and putting the blame from engine problems onto the owners for not using premium fuel.

From what I gather, you may lose some HP/efficiency with 87
For best performance, use 91
But it is not required
DrFill

Wow, this is a lot of comments for a post about a minivan…

Whoa…is it hot in here or what? Didn’t think I’d EVER see the day when the object of such heated debate was a minivan. Well done, gentlemen.

That said, I’ll take my 2011 Sienna in LE or XLE trim. USB port is a must. Oh, the merlot color I’ve seen the Sienna dressed in looks superb; I’ll take that, too. A bit tired of 4-cylinders, so a V-6 is a must at this stage of my life. AWD? Not necessary, but a nice feature for those in need. And…a nude Bo Derek for solo milk runs? What, is Tyra Banks’ schedule really that full? Damn!

I appear to be the only soccer mom weighing in, so I’ll say this in support of a $40 minivan.

As a pregnant mother-of-three currently driving a Honda Pilot, SUV life is not conducive to multiple carseats and three adult-sized persons. Sure, there are techically eight seats, a feature you’ll find on many medium- and full-sized SUVs, but anyone tried to get a two-year-old out of one of those third row seats? Or has anyone standing 5′ 8” (my 13-year-old) ever ridden back there for 1600 miles? How about juggling an infant carseat, two toddlers, and a cart full of groceries and trying to find a spare hand to open a hatch or swinging doors? Easier rear seat access, 9″ additional leg room, and features like automatic sliding doors and rear hatch are priceless! And the few SUVs with walk-through access and a little extra leg room have price tags STARTING where the Sienna leaves off. So what’s expensive?

I grew up in a Dodge/Ford family, and my entire family and I learned invaluable lessons about the “reliability” of the former, in particular. Never will there be makers other than Toyota or Honda in my garage. Global economy contributor for life!

Thank you robsjenna! I fully agree. I love that these (assume men) folks are getting all bent out of shape about a van, when we know most men would rather die than stoop to the level of drive a van, as if it somehow takes away their manhood, when in reality it SHOWS their manhood with the little people in the backseat Anyways, nothing can replace a van. If you have more than 2 kids, you either drive a suburban (like) or a van. Period. Craming 3 carseats on one seat is enough to make you never leave the house. Having the kids get kicked in the head as they crawl over the seat to the tiny back seat of a 3rd row in the SUV, AND have to strap your stroller to the top because we all know there is not enough space for anything when the 3rd row is up…is yet another reason to never leave the house. (how are those for long, run on sentences) Again I digress. I know that the minivan segment is shrinking, but that is odd since all of my friends either have vans or are getting vans! How are you suppose to carpool without one? More than half of the cars at school are …..drum roll…… MINIVANS! (and all siennas or odysseys at that). Okay, I have said my peace. Goodnight